SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

LARulz

Full Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
18,138
Anyone else signed up to the vaccine trial? I got the screening invite but am having second thoughts
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
21,207

Dumbstar

We got another woman hater here.
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
21,137
Location
Viva Karius!
Supports
Liverpool
Good to hear.

cant bloody get one over here. All sold out.
Cheap ones on amazon don’t deliver to Ireland so considering whether to pay €80 for one that will
I got it from Argos, they seem to have plenty of cheap ones in stock (£20ish). Delivery times are ridiculous so I opted for the pay and collect, only took two days. 80 euros sounds high if you already know your breathing is fine.
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
42,010
It really is time BMI was replaced with a better indicator. My perfect weight is about 75kg, I'd barely have the strength to stand if i actually was that.
There is no perfect weight though? It's just a range. According to the chart I looked up, my range is from 68.2kg through to 88.6kg to be classed as healthy. I've pretty much covered that range since I stopped growing - I was a 70-72kg 16 year old and now I'm 26 and weigh around 82-84kg.
 

redshaw

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
9,586
Ive read an article today stating that in UK 73% of COVID patients in intensive care are overweight and 83% are overweight in France. That’s a large overrepresentation if numbers are correct. Any UK and France posters can confirm?

Further this also give a hope that 3rd world countries will handle COVID better due to less overweight (not so much UK and US)
Yes I've read that in France, 83%. I was going to post it a week or two ago but would need stats for over 60s rather than the country as a whole. My impression is most in that age are on the large side then there's the argued classification body index and so forth I wonder if that stat gets less important if most happen to be deemed "overweight" rather than many other things deteriorating with age.
 

jojojo

JoJoJoJoJoJoJo
Staff
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
38,145
Location
Welcome to Manchester reception committee
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article...-but-Not-All-in-a-15214321.php#photo-19310196

Interesting article about a restaurant in China showing how it spread to those on the next table or two but not anywhere else. Eating, talking, laughing in the close confines indoors, like at your home with your friend round for hours is I think a major transmission. Communal areas in old people homes is sure to be a big risk with many coughing and the windows closed during March. We see on the droplet videos how simple ventilation can very quickly make all the airborne droplets leave or drop down. I think more should be done to tell people who risk having people round or large families rather than a month of washing hands and phones videos. UK also has some of the smallest homes in Europe on average.

That's a really interesting image and article.

In a way it's reassuring that tables D, E, F seem to be outside the problem area. It gives hope that social distancing can work even as normal life starts to resume. Unfortunately the bad news is that most people are missing their (not immediate household) family/friends and it's a reminder that it's exactly those people we put at risk if we act on those feelings.

It would be great to see more of these "how people actually got infected" stories though - unfortunately that relies on analysis of individual incidents with known single sources, and the UK has already gone far past that point. Maybe places like NZ, where individual contact tracing now looks possible, will be able to tell us more. Otherwise, we are waiting for something to spin out of one of these big smartphone driven models, which may takes months.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
21,207
There is no perfect weight though? It's just a range. According to the chart I looked up, my range is from 68.2kg through to 88.6kg to be classed as healthy. I've pretty much covered that range since I stopped growing - I was a 70-72kg 16 year old and now I'm 26 and weigh around 82-84kg.
Perfect = middle of the range.

My range is 64 to 87kg. When I was playing semi pro football and as fit as i have ever been i was 87-88kg. Now i'm 90kg. I honestly don't think i could function properly at 64kg.

I used to have yearly health checks and every time the doctor would complain about having to use BMI measurements.


It would be great to see more of these "how people actually got infected" stories though - unfortunately that relies on analysis of individual incidents with known single sources, and the UK has already gone far past that point. Maybe places like NZ, where individual contact tracing now looks possible, will be able to tell us more. Otherwise, we are waiting for something to spin out of one of these big smartphone driven models, which may takes months.
Unfortunately to get around GDPR these apps are not going to use GPS, so it's going to be almost impossible to figure out where people were when they were in contact with positive patients.
 

Pogue Mahone

The caf's Camus.
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
133,351
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Perfect = middle of the range.

My range is 64 to 87kg. When I was playing semi pro football and as fit as i have ever been i was 87-88kg. Now i'm 90kg. I honestly don't think i could function properly at 64kg.

I used to have yearly health checks and every time the doctor would complain about having to use BMI measurements.

BMI isn’t about landing in the middle of the range. It’s only intended to pick up people outside the normal range entirely. As a screening tool it’s still pretty useful.
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
119,457
Location
Dublin, Ireland
I got it from Argos, they seem to have plenty of cheap ones in stock (£20ish). Delivery times are ridiculous so I opted for the pay and collect, only took two days. 80 euros sounds high if you already know your breathing is fine.
Yeah that’s why I’ve resisted. Literally can’t get them over here, tried medical stores, Argos, boots, amazon etc
 

fergieisold

New Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
7,122
Location
Saddleworth (home) Manchester (work)
It's a terrible analogy as it is literal two non analogous situations which defeats the point of an analogy. The general public would be served better with more leadership and less rhetoric and I don't believe that, generally, the public only relate to meaningless soundbites.
well whatever you want to call it I don’t get why it’a a problem. Not my style but it’s not like using a soundbite is gonna change anything.
 

Adamsk7

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
2,699
Depends what they mean by overweight though. If the Uk is reporting based off the NHS graph then I would be deemed “overweight” yet I workout 5x a week and eat a healthy, plant and fish based diet, medium T-shirt and 34 waist. I am 6ft 0 and 14st 5lbs (93kg). My maximum weight to fall in the healthy range is 13st 3 and I have been that weight before and was painfully thin. That was during my low body fat chasing phase where I was trying to get down to Pro athlete level fat ranges.
 

P-Nut

fan of well-known French footballer Fabinho
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
21,605
Location
Oldham, Greater Manchester
Is there an alternative to BMI?

My weight range is so far off possible for me it's untrue. Even at the high end of the range I look far too skinny and frail, so at best I'd always be considered overweight.
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
42,010
Depends what they mean by overweight though. If the Uk is reporting based off the NHS graph then I would be deemed “overweight” yet I workout 5x a week and eat a healthy, plant and fish based diet, medium T-shirt and 34 waist. I am 6ft 0 and 14st 5lbs (93kg). My maximum weight to fall in the healthy range is 13st 3 and I have been that weight before and was painfully thin. That was during my low body fat chasing phase where I was trying to get down to Pro athlete level fat ranges.
I think one of the problems is the current norm for what is healthy/ideal male body is fairly new. Before even the last 10 years, you wouldn't find many people in the gym, trying to actively build muscle and put on mass by overconsuming . So it's not surprising, a test made over 50 years ago fails on you.

In fact, for a large percentage of our history we were running around on long hunts. Those people were probably on the lower end of the BMI range and I don't think you can say they were unhealthy.
 

Flying high

Full Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
1,679
To be fair, the majority of this country voted for an election campaign that literally consisted of a soundbite, on repeat.

It doesn't surprise me at all that the PM is adopting this type of approach, it works for him.
Decades of target driven education have lead to this. Critical thinking is harder to measure so is not sufficiently encouraged in schools.

Idiocracy in action.
 

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
42,010
Is there an alternative to BMI?

My weight range is so far off possible for me it's untrue. Even at the high end of the range I look far too skinny and frail, so at best I'd always be considered overweight.
Bodyfat percentage. Problem is, all of them have their own problems with repeatability. I think DEXA scan is the most reliable but even then things like water/salt consumption can mess with the results I think.

I think you're better off just looking in the mirror. If you don't have a protruding belly and/or man-boobs you're probably okay.
 

BD

technologically challenged barbie doll
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
23,052
13st at 6ft is painfully thin? I'm 6ft and just a tad over 11st and while I'm not overly muscly, I wouldn't consider myself thinner than painfully thin.
 

OleBoiii

New Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2019
Messages
6,021
I love how the BMI discussion always, without fail, will make people lose their minds :lol:

It's obviously not the only metric you should look at. For some people it's quite inaccurate(mainly people who are unusually broad or muscular).

On the flip-side, there are suspiciously many people who claim that they are the exception. I've seen what people consider "way too skinny" and "frail", and most of the examples look like perfectly healthy people to me. Over the last decades we've pushed the boundary for what is considered "normal" way too far.
 

Pogue Mahone

The caf's Camus.
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
133,351
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
13st at 6ft is painfully thin? I'm 6ft and just a tad over 11st and while I'm not overly muscly, I wouldn't consider myself thinner than painfully thin.
I’m calling bollox on that. I’m 6’ 2” and exactly 13 stone. I’m definitely not “painfully thin”. Maybe when I was in my teens. When I was about 2 stone lighter.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
31,036
I love how the BMI discussion always, without fail, will make people lose their minds :lol:

It's obviously not the only metric you should look at. For some people, it's quite inaccurate(mainly people who are unusually broad or muscular).

On the flip-side, there are suspiciously many people who claim that they are the exception. I've seen what people consider "way too skinny" and "frail", and most of the examples look like perfectly healthy people to me. Over the last decades we've pushed the boundary for what is considered "normal" way too far.
It doesn't work very well for certain ethnicities irrespective of training or being muscular. "Normal" in one isn't necessarily "Normal" in another.
 

BD

technologically challenged barbie doll
Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
23,052
I’m calling bollox on that. I’m 6’ 2” and exactly 13 stone. I’m definitely not “painfully thin”. Maybe when I was in my teens. When I was about 2 stone lighter.
Good to have a doctor on my side
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,354
Location
France
I think one of the problems is the current norm for what is healthy/ideal male body is fairly new. Before even the last 10 years, you wouldn't find many people in the gym, trying to actively build muscle and put on mass by overconsuming . So it's not surprising, a test made over 50 years ago fails on you.

In fact, for a large percentage of our history we were running around on long hunts. Those people were probably on the lower end of the BMI range and I don't think you can say they were unhealthy.
Your comment made me think about bushmen, I wouldn't keep up with them for more than 48 hours. From a functional standpoint they are way healthier than most of us, they can actually do physically demanding activities day after day.
 

Alabaster Codify7

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
6,553
Location
Wales
350 is today's death toll, 329 (England), 13 (Scotland) and 8 (Wales). No number for NI.

Lowest in ages. But obviously, it's the Monday report so will be lower as usual, expecting a jump again tomorrow.....hopefully not as big as last week's. Would be good if we could continue to report lower lows and lower highs each week, as seems to be the trend (albeit very small differences).
 

Cole9

Full Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
921
I'm 6' 3" and weigh a bit over 13 stone, but I certainly don't look "painfully thin".
 

Mr Pigeon

Illiterate Flying Rat
Scout
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
26,107
Location
bin
Not the worst analogy. General public more likely to get behind rhetoric to be honest than anything else.
The worst part for me is the "I had it" part. Cameron did the same where he would mention the work the NHS did for his family and how grateful he was whilst his party were dismantling it.
 

Alabaster Codify7

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
6,553
Location
Wales
Italy surprises me. If I lived there I'd definitely be obese, my god their food is so good.

It is weird, yeah! All those carbs and the size of the meals / emphasis on frequent, elongated family meals etc! A weird one for me is Malta, i was supposed to arrive there yesterday on holiday but they cancelled my flights weeks back, as the country is in lockdown. They've had less than 10 deaths overall. But are supposedly extremely overweight?!


The worst part for me is the "I had it" part. Cameron did the same where he would mention the work the NHS did for his family and how grateful he was whilst his party were dismantling it.

Yeah that was my first thought when he got it. I didn't disbelieve that he was sick, I just knew that would basically be his impenetrable armour protecting him from any kind of criticism around his handling of the situation. He's basically bulletproof now, the fortune that bloke has is incredible really. One of the luckiest PM's/leaders I can remember.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,139
Supports
Aston Villa
350 is today's death toll, 329 (England), 13 (Scotland) and 8 (Wales). No number for NI.

Lowest in ages. But obviously, it's the Monday report so will be lower as usual, expecting a jump again tomorrow.....hopefully not as big as last week's. Would be good if we could continue to report lower lows and lower highs each week, as seems to be the trend (albeit very small differences).
Yeah you learn the little quirks being on this thread I find. Not being too excited about a Monday death toll being low. What was the number of deaths last Monday out of interest mate?
 

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
34,063
Depends what they mean by overweight though. If the Uk is reporting based off the NHS graph then I would be deemed “overweight” yet I workout 5x a week and eat a healthy, plant and fish based diet, medium T-shirt and 34 waist. I am 6ft 0 and 14st 5lbs (93kg). My maximum weight to fall in the healthy range is 13st 3 and I have been that weight before and was painfully thin. That was during my low body fat chasing phase where I was trying to get down to Pro athlete level fat ranges.
If you think you looked "painfully thin" as a 6ft tall, 13st man then you could do with meeting some actual skinny people as it sounds like your perception is a bit off. A lot of people are hella skinnier than that.
 

Alabaster Codify7

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
6,553
Location
Wales
Promising then. Numbers will go up during the week but hopefully reduction of 100 deaths every week from where we were 7 days ago will be start of signficant drop.

That is more or less, what's been happening, give or take. Since 'Good/Horrendous Friday' our Friday number has been roughly 80-100 less than the one before or something like that. Our lowest figure each week has been lower, too.

I really like the idea of weekly figures, as someone said yesterday. I think that'd give a better idea of what we're looking at.
 

redshaw

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2015
Messages
9,586
Problem with stats 73% of hospital cases are overweight is UK is classed as 65-75% of adults overweight. France's stat of 83% if true should point to something which you'd expect.
 
Last edited:

madzo2007

Full Member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
2,192
Location
Belfast, Ireland
This has popped up a few times on my twitter feed today

From seemingly fine to passing away within 10 days :(

 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,139
Supports
Aston Villa
That is more or less, what's been happening, give or take. Since 'Good/Horrendous Friday' our Friday number has been roughly 80-100 less than the one before or something like that. Our lowest figure each week has been lower, too.

I really like the idea of weekly figures, as someone said yesterday. I think that'd give a better idea of what we're looking at.
The problem is always at the end of the week. You see figures of 700 odd and sort of lose heart and feels pointless to check on the figure 7 days before when it might've been 850-900 deaths. So progress but feels stupid to do a little fist pump when 700 + people are losing their lives to this awful virus.

Eventually we will get there. We're past the peak now anyway but it will be a long plateau as we're seeing in Italy and Spain.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
21,207
Bodyfat percentage. Problem is, all of them have their own problems with repeatability. I think DEXA scan is the most reliable but even then things like water/salt consumption can mess with the results I think.

I think you're better off just looking in the mirror. If you don't have a protruding belly and/or man-boobs you're probably okay.
Even that isn't perfect. I know there is a difference with cholesterol and fat build up etc. but to some extent your heart doesn't care if it's pumping blood around 50kg of extra muscle or 50kg of extra fat, it's still extra work it has to do.


I would love to see the spread of those US figures. Every time i go there i'm shocked by how many people look like they're either Under Armor endorsed professional athletes, or so fat they're about to fall through the floor. There is no in between.
 

Alabaster Codify7

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
6,553
Location
Wales
The problem is always at the end of the week. You see figures of 700 odd and sort of lose heart and feels pointless to check on the figure 7 days before when it might've been 850-900 deaths. So progress but feels stupid to do a little fist pump when 700 + people are losing their lives to this awful virus.

Eventually we will get there. We're past the peak now anyway but it will be a long plateau as we're seeing in Italy and Spain.

Agree. I also think this is another way weekly figures would help with morale. A lot of people are probably going up, down, up, down with these daily figures to the point where it must be mentally affecting a lot of people. One figure each week to focus on would be more helpful I think especially because that figure is highly likely to decrease each week (fingers crossed). A long plateau, yeah, agreed.