SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Wolverine

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52760871
Good development as the oxford vaccine is rolled out to trial in more than 10,200 people - including over 70s and five to 12-year-olds

Also interesting to read the paper on the monkeys which caused a bit of discussion, the full paper is worth a read
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.093195v1.full

These were the findings after euthanizing and autopsying the monkeys
At 7 days post inoculation, all animals were euthanized, and tissues were collected. None of the vaccinated monkeys developed pulmonary pathology after inoculation with SARS-CoV-2. All lungs were histologically normal and no evidence of viral pneumonia nor immune-enhanced inflammatory disease was observed. In addition, no SARS-CoV-2 antigen was detected by immunohistochemistry in the lungs of any of the vaccinated animals.

Two out of 3 control animals developed some degree of viral interstitial pneumonia. Lesions were widely separated and characterized by thickening of alveolar septae by small amounts of edema fluid and few macrophages and lymphocytes. Immunohistochemistry demonstrated viral antigen in type I and II pneumocytes, as well as in alveolar macrophages
tl:dr, lungs in the vaccinated monkeys were normal and none of the pathological findings classic of severe covid disease found in them
Loads of other interesting and potentially promising things if translated to humans promising findings there. Usual caveats apply.
 

lynchie

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Silvia and nasal tests on the one person counted as 2 tests by the UK to fudge the numbers.
Why would anyone be shocked, given the announcements every day show the large discrepency between number of tests and number of people tested? Clearly there are a large number of people getting more than one test.
 

arnie_ni

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Jesus. Is that since the start? If so, does that mean that the total tested is actually only half of the published number?
They have said 25 percent overall. They cant double count home tests.

But from the start until home tests were done, yes they were double counting.

Thats my under standing anyway.
 

lynchie

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If the Telegraph are looking for another scoop, they could read more of the government's own footnotes I guess. The fact that the number of tests now includes antibody tests which will never add to the number of positive cases seems a bit shifty to me, but it's not exactly a secret.
 

Rafaeldagold

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We will have to learn to live with this virus for the foreseeable future, until a vaccine is available so at what point do we have to get back to some semblance of normality?
We can’t stay away from others & friends & family indefinitely?

Business & the economy just wouldn’t cope & the economic impact will actually soon prove a greater toll on health than Covid.

It’s not as simple as saying ‘ just stay indoors & don’t go anywhere until the virus is gone- that’s not an option
 

11101

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52760871
Good development as the oxford vaccine is rolled out to trial in more than 10,200 people - including over 70s and five to 12-year-olds

Also interesting to read the paper on the monkeys which caused a bit of discussion, the full paper is worth a read
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.093195v1.full

These were the findings after euthanizing and autopsying the monkeys


tl:dr, lungs in the vaccinated monkeys were normal and none of the pathological findings classic of severe covid disease found in them
Loads of other interesting and potentially promising things if translated to humans promising findings there. Usual caveats apply.
Any view on what percentage of new drugs make it to production?

For example 1% of drugs at the laboratory research stage will make it, but once you get to 2nd stage human trials 50% of those will end up being successful?
 

Pogue Mahone

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Any view on what percentage of new drugs make it to production?

For example 1% of drugs at the laboratory research stage will make it, but once you get to 2nd stage human trials 50% of those will end up being successful?
Can’t speak for vaccines but I’d say only about 1 in 10 drugs that enter phase I studies in humans ever make it to market. Maybe one in three from Phase II?
 

Wolverine

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Silvia and nasal tests on the one person counted as 2 tests by the UK to fudge the numbers.
They are very slippery when it comes to numbers, like when they counted every individual glove (rather than one pair/pack of gloves) as an individual item in their "billion items of PPE" claim

I reckon a significant amount of governmental effort is now looking at ways to prevent themselves from legal culpability in a lot of the decisions they've made. The next big inquiry and civil action lawsuit will be families to those lost in care homes. Basically in April/late March a huge drive was announced to discharge as many patients as possible to community hospitals or back to care homes to make beds for anticipated surge/peak of the disease. Depending on who you asked decision to not test these patients that were being discharged for COVID (which we now know a lot of them did have and possible spread it post-discharge) was either the fault of trust management, senior clinicians or NHS England. Its a major talking point

There's a very interesting thread on twitter between two geriatricians on this topic with regards to how much and who between clinicians or NHS England should take the blame

I do recall at the time we were told that decision centrally, higher up, presumably by NHS England that if a patient had no fever, no cough, was 7 days post-symptoms they either did not have covid or were no longer infectious (all of which we now know to be not true) then patients no longer needed swabs and we had to discharge them. Care homes accepted these patients back not knowing the risk of infection .Some who were covid positive were also discharged if care home managers thought they could isolate them with proper precautions.

The discharge criteria was later changed to 2 negative tests and no fever for 48 hours pre-discharge. I think a key question will be that we had increased stepdown community hospital capacity increased subtantially that wasn't utilised, the nightingale hospitals, community hospitals, private hospitals that we procured could have served as stepdown make shift wards for chest physio and ensuring negative swabs before sending them back to care homes.
 

TMDaines

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Have to reply to this. I’m really sorry to hear about your situation. That’s shit. And I do kind of agree with your point. But public health measures are broad strokes, which don’t require 100% compliance from everyone to work. If smart people take properly thought through risks there really is no harm done. Assuming your parents are properly cocooning, there is very little potential for any harm outside your family if you were to meet up to show them your baby. And you can minimise the risks within your family by being super rigorous about avoiding outside contact for a week before meeting them, meeting them outside, physically distancing, scrupulous hand washing etc
I strongly disagree on this. Yes, the risks to us, the baby and my parents are minute, but when thousands of people think and act like that, you are almost mathematically certain to generate loads of new cases again. It's fine for one person to take a 1 in 1000 chance, but when millions in the population take that chance, you are inevitably going to get the virus finding its way to the most vulnerable and you are going to get dead bodies. That's not what is being explained to people. It is an absolute certainty that there will be transmission from people having "safe" social contact and it will ultimately result in deaths. I get that it is difficult to not see family, it is tempting to go outside and socialise, and I am aware that I have a south-facing garden and don't live alone, but there's a cost to social contact right now, even if those engaging will not be the ones to pay the price. I think that messaging is getting lost on people. People need to think long and hard about every social contact they willingly make, and the potential for their actions to unwillingly generate unwelcome others.
 

Arruda

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Well I guess we all now understand that acting early is far more important than acting strict. The later is how you solve not doing the first.

When we allowed ourselves to get into a position where we didn't have a clue how advanced was the "invisible" phase of the spread in our countries/areas it stands to reason that acting as strict as possible was the only sensible approach. Even in countries where not even half of the health system capacity was filled, we can't really be sure what levels of action would have been the most balanced. I don't believe any kind of modelling is accurate enough to say that now, let alone then. The difference between calm and collapse might have been as short as a week for all we know.
 

Wolverine

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Can’t speak for vaccines but I’d say only about 1 in 10 drugs that enter phase I studies in humans ever make it to market. Maybe one in three from Phase II?
Yeah I only ever heard of the less than 13% figure for pharmacological agents that undergo phase I (which to identify also requires a shitload of R&D effort to identify as the most promising) make it to market
 

SteveJ

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This is going to be one major legal clusterfeck when it’s all done
It'll be handled in the traditional British way: with the stacked-juries of 'independent' enquiries; with false claims that 'lessons have been learned'; with feigned regret in place of change and responsibility; and with scapegoat punishment of everyone but the truly culpable. History shows us this, time and again.
 

Pogue Mahone

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They are very slippery when it comes to numbers, like when they counted every individual glove (rather than one pair/pack of gloves) as an individual item in their "billion items of PPE" claim

I reckon a significant amount of governmental effort is now looking at ways to prevent themselves from legal culpability in a lot of the decisions they've made. The next big inquiry and civil action lawsuit will be families to those lost in care homes. Basically in April/late March a huge drive was announced to discharge as many patients as possible to community hospitals or back to care homes to make beds for anticipated surge/peak of the disease. Depending on who you asked decision to not test these patients that were being discharged for COVID (which we now know a lot of them did have and possible spread it post-discharge) was either the fault of trust management, senior clinicians or NHS England. Its a major talking point

There's a very interesting thread on twitter between two geriatricians on this topic with regards to how much and who between clinicians or NHS England should take the blame

I do recall at the time we were told that decision centrally, higher up, presumably by NHS England that if a patient had no fever, no cough, was 7 days post-symptoms they either did not have covid or were no longer infectious (all of which we now know to be not true) then patients no longer needed swabs and we had to discharge them. Care homes accepted these patients back not knowing the risk of infection .Some who were covid positive were also discharged if care home managers thought they could isolate them with proper precautions.

The discharge criteria was later changed to 2 negative tests and no fever for 48 hours pre-discharge. I think a key question will be that we had increased stepdown community hospital capacity increased subtantially that wasn't utilised, the nightingale hospitals, community hospitals, private hospitals that we procured could have served as stepdown make shift wards for chest physio and ensuring negative swabs before sending them back to care homes.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a similar pattern in lots of countries. Part of getting ready for the surge involved freeing up acute beds by turfing as many elderly in-patients as possible to care homes. With devastating consequences. To be fair, this was at a time when our understanding of the virus was evolving. I can’t remember the exact timeline but I think we only really learned about the long incubation period and asymptomatic spread after the first few cases.
 

rotherham_red

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It'll be handled in the traditional British way: with the stacked-juries of 'independent' enquiries; with false claims that 'lessons have been learned'; with feigned regret in place of change and responsibility; and with scapegoat punishment of everyone but the truly culpable. History shows us this, time and again.
I hate that you're in all likelihood right. How they managed to get away with Grenfell after pinning it on the fire services, I will never know.
 

golden_blunder

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It'll be handled in the traditional British way: with the stacked-juries of 'independent' enquiries; with false claims that 'lessons have been learned'; with feigned regret in place of change and responsibility; and with scapegoat punishment of everyone but the truly culpable. History shows us this, time and again.
And the taxpayer foots their bill. You can be sure that it won’t come out of the pocket of BoJo, JRM or the other bloodsuckers
 

11101

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Can’t speak for vaccines but I’d say only about 1 in 10 drugs that enter phase I studies in humans ever make it to market. Maybe one in three from Phase II?
How much of those failures are down to commercial considerations i.e potential market size? Which would not be relevant here as governments will pay whatever it takes.
 

Compton22

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It'll be handled in the traditional British way: with the stacked-juries of 'independent' enquiries; with false claims that 'lessons have been learned'; with feigned regret in place of change and responsibility; and with scapegoat punishment of everyone but the truly culpable. History shows us this, time and again.
I would like to think simply "lessons learned" won't be sufficient to appease the families of the thousands of people to have died from their mistakes, but it probably will be judged to be sufficient.
 

lynchie

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They are very slippery when it comes to numbers, like when they counted every individual glove (rather than one pair/pack of gloves) as an individual item in their "billion items of PPE" claim

I reckon a significant amount of governmental effort is now looking at ways to prevent themselves from legal culpability in a lot of the decisions they've made. The next big inquiry and civil action lawsuit will be families to those lost in care homes. Basically in April/late March a huge drive was announced to discharge as many patients as possible to community hospitals or back to care homes to make beds for anticipated surge/peak of the disease. Depending on who you asked decision to not test these patients that were being discharged for COVID (which we now know a lot of them did have and possible spread it post-discharge) was either the fault of trust management, senior clinicians or NHS England. Its a major talking point

There's a very interesting thread on twitter between two geriatricians on this topic with regards to how much and who between clinicians or NHS England should take the blame

I do recall at the time we were told that decision centrally, higher up, presumably by NHS England that if a patient had no fever, no cough, was 7 days post-symptoms they either did not have covid or were no longer infectious (all of which we now know to be not true) then patients no longer needed swabs and we had to discharge them. Care homes accepted these patients back not knowing the risk of infection .Some who were covid positive were also discharged if care home managers thought they could isolate them with proper precautions.

The discharge criteria was later changed to 2 negative tests and no fever for 48 hours pre-discharge. I think a key question will be that we had increased stepdown community hospital capacity increased subtantially that wasn't utilised, the nightingale hospitals, community hospitals, private hospitals that we procured could have served as stepdown make shift wards for chest physio and ensuring negative swabs before sending them back to care homes.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a similar pattern in lots of countries. Part of getting ready for the surge involved freeing up acute beds by turfing as many elderly in-patients as possible to care homes. With devastating consequences. To be fair, this was at a time when our understanding of the virus was evolving. I can’t remember the exact timeline but I think we only really learned about the long incubation period and asymptomatic spread after the first few cases.
This ties in with the peak in care home deaths being around 10 days after the peak in hospitals as well. Horrendous mistake in hindsight.
 

SteveJ

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And the taxpayer foots their bill. You can be sure that it won’t come out of the pocket of BoJo, JRM or the other bloodsuckers
Naturally.

Compton22 said:
I would like to think simply "lessons learned" won't be sufficient to appease the families of the thousands of people to have died from their mistakes, but it probably will be judged to be sufficient.
We're not apathetic, just resigned to being screwed over by the unjustly powerful.

"Why don't the British people stand up for themselves?'" asked the person wielding the club and the truncheon.
 

Pogue Mahone

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How much of those failures are down to commercial considerations i.e potential market size? Which would not be relevant here as governments will pay whatever it takes.
You’d have a lot of the market considerations sorted out before going in to phase II (indication, dosage, route of administration) From then on its just about proving safety and efficacy in the target population.

Attrition in phase II/III is almost always because the drug turns out more toxic than you hoped, or doesn’t work well enough. Failure on an efficacy basis is often because it doesn’t work as well as/better than existing drugs used to treat the same condition. Obviously not an issue here! For vaccines, though, safety is a BIG hurdle. You’re exposing millions of healthy people so the safety bar is set much higher than it is if you’re treating small numbers of sick people.

Pricing is only considered you know you have a drug that can go to market. The cost of manufacturing is usually pretty trivial, so the price is based on what the health service is willing to pay. Which is a bit shitty but that’s capitalism for you.

EDIT: To be clear, the enormous margins over cost of goods is also because of the enormous cost of getting the drug to market. Plus the cost of developing all the other drugs that never make it.
 
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BluesJr

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We will have to learn to live with this virus for the foreseeable future, until a vaccine is available so at what point do we have to get back to some semblance of normality?
We can’t stay away from others & friends & family indefinitely?

Business & the economy just wouldn’t cope & the economic impact will actually soon prove a greater toll on health than Covid.

It’s not as simple as saying ‘ just stay indoors & don’t go anywhere until the virus is gone- that’s not an option
The answer is we can't really. This notion of 'normal' is simply going to have to change. People need to grasp that. The virus has shown that it will clearly overwhelm health services if it's left unchecked.
 

noodlehair

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Just thought I'd post this as an example of the sheer hypocrasy of the current situation. This is a "guest blog" from someone who works in our homeless team:

We are doing a tough job working remotely dealing with homeless people and delivering the government’s agenda not to return rough people to the street, this has required an ever growing co-ordination between staff and stakeholders mostly all working remotely amidst scare resources. We all want to show that business is as usual. On my 9th working from home due to COVID-19, my boundaries between work and life have almost entirely disappeared. I am spending more hours per day on the job than before lockdown, peak email time has crept up every five minutes before the COVID-19 outbreak; impromptu meetings, regular skype conversations, teleconferences have made it nearly impossible to disconnect. Performance is high, an ever communication with staff has led the message not to get distracted because you are on your own, you’re meant to deliver on the targets set out; you know we will be watching closely those red flags. Talking about boundaries and working from home, I should not be a workaholic waking up to emails from early in the morning till past 9pm or even later to catch on deadlines at 10am, this never happens when we're in the office. It's almost as if working from home means work 24 hours. Working from home is perhaps going to be norm, I really want to get back to a 9-5 routine, often I feel overworked, and eager to get back to the office but the contours of the workday have changed, we are in the alternative workplace, we devote less time and energy to typical office routines and more to our customers.

To put this into context. There are currently over 100 builders in our building, pointlessly moving desks and furniture about...but apparently it is not safe for someone who's job is to help homeless people, to come in and do their job helping homeless people, even though unless they're talking utter shite, doing it from home clearly isn't working...the fact there's 4 poeple sat outside the building right now with their belongings unabe to see anyone who can help them suggests it's the former.

People need to start getting a fecking clue about where priorities should be and what risk is actually bigger.
 

noodlehair

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We will have to learn to live with this virus for the foreseeable future, until a vaccine is available so at what point do we have to get back to some semblance of normality?
We can’t stay away from others & friends & family indefinitely?

Business & the economy just wouldn’t cope & the economic impact will actually soon prove a greater toll on health than Covid.

It’s not as simple as saying ‘ just stay indoors & don’t go anywhere until the virus is gone- that’s not an option
I wouldn't bother in this thread mate.

Too many people in here spouting opinions as if they are the voice of the working class, but who in reality have absolutely zero clue what's actually going on out there or how hard it is for a lot of people to simply survive at the moment.

People just presume because they are smart they know better. I've been helping out at my local food bank and with other aspects at work such as taking social care calls, helping deliver medication, etc. The one thing I've definitely learnt, is most people in this thread are clearly in a privelidged position currently and have next to no clue what is actually going on in the real world. Their opinion is worth a tiny fraction of someone half as smart as them out there driving a bus, helping deliver food or helping to get a school re-open safely, who are actually seeing the effect this is having on the people who's biggest problem isn't not being able to go to the pub, and who are actually trying to do something about it other than spout drivel about how no one should ever do anything again.

The amount of world wide epidemic experts in this thread is hilarious considering that even the actual experts would tell you they are not exactly experts.
 
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Pogue Mahone

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Just thought I'd post this as an example of the sheer hypocrasy of the current situation. This is a "guest blog" from someone who works in our homeless team:

We are doing a tough job working remotely dealing with homeless people and delivering the government’s agenda not to return rough people to the street, this has required an ever growing co-ordination between staff and stakeholders mostly all working remotely amidst scare resources. We all want to show that business is as usual. On my 9th working from home due to COVID-19, my boundaries between work and life have almost entirely disappeared. I am spending more hours per day on the job than before lockdown, peak email time has crept up every five minutes before the COVID-19 outbreak; impromptu meetings, regular skype conversations, teleconferences have made it nearly impossible to disconnect. Performance is high, an ever communication with staff has led the message not to get distracted because you are on your own, you’re meant to deliver on the targets set out; you know we will be watching closely those red flags. Talking about boundaries and working from home, I should not be a workaholic waking up to emails from early in the morning till past 9pm or even later to catch on deadlines at 10am, this never happens when we're in the office. It's almost as if working from home means work 24 hours. Working from home is perhaps going to be norm, I really want to get back to a 9-5 routine, often I feel overworked, and eager to get back to the office but the contours of the workday have changed, we are in the alternative workplace, we devote less time and energy to typical office routines and more to our customers.

To put this into context. There are currently over 100 builders in our building, pointlessly moving desks and furniture about...but apparently it is not safe for someone who's job is to help homeless people, to come in and do their job helping homeless people, even though unless they're talking utter shite, doing it from home clearly isn't working...the fact there's 4 poeple sat outside the building right now with their belongings unabe to see anyone who can help them suggests it's the former.

People need to start getting a fecking clue about where priorities should be and what risk is actually bigger.
You keep talking about hypocrisy. You’ve mentioned nothing there that is in any way hypocritical.

Builders cannot work from home. That’s an impossibility. So they need to come in to work. Which helps takes the edge off the economic disaster that usually gets you all worked up. The construction industry employs a shit-load of people, directly and indirectly, so it needs to keep ticking over. For everyone’s sake.

People with different jobs - like the person who wrote that blog - CAN work from home. So they should. They might not be as effective at their job and they might not like it. But it’s still an option. So they should take that option. And each individual employee needs to be professional enough to make sure they get the work/life balance about right, in these changed circumstances. I get the impression that the vast majority of employers are being pretty reasonable (apart from one specific member of redcafe anyway).

Obviously, if there are elements of their job that require them to be physically present (like meeting with those rough sleepers who turn up at your office) then it’s up to the organisation you work for to make sure that happens. In a way that is as safe as possible for everyone involved. As far as I can work out, individual organisations have been given the flexibility to do this. I know that’s the situation in Ireland. I’d be amazed if the Uk is any different?

It’s up to each individual company/organisation to make this work. And if it isn’t working then complaints should be addressed to whoever is running that company/organisation, instead of ranting about the whole world being hypocritical. That makes no sense.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I wouldn't bother in this thread mate.

Too many people in here spouting opinions as if they are the voice of the working class, but who in reality have absolutely zero clue what's actually going on out there or how hard it is for a lot of people to simply survive at the moment.

People just presume because they are smart they know better. I've been helping out at my local food bank and with other aspects at work such as taking social care calls, helping deliver medication, etc. The one thing I've definitely learnt, is most people in this thread are clearly in a privelidged position currently and have next to no clue what is actually going on in the real world. Their opinion is worth a tiny fraction of someone half as smart as them out there driving a bus, helping deliver food or helping to get a school re-open safely, who are actually seeing the effect this is having on the people who's biggest problem isn't not being able to go to the pub, and who are actually trying to do something about it other than spout drivel about how no one should ever do anything again..
And that just comes across as a load of whiney bollox. Some of the “smart people” who seem to wind you up are putting their lives at risk, every day, going in to work in hospitals riddled with the virus. Dealing with bereaved relatives, finding out about colleagues who have been killed. So I think it’s fair to say they have a pretty good idea what’s going on. Even though you obviously think you know best.

And that’s without even getting into the hundreds of taxi drivers, bus drivers, cleaners, supermarket workers and security guards who have been killed by this virus in the last few weeks while you’ve been making up false facts about how a recession will kill more people and lockdown needs to stop immediately. I think it’s fair to say their bereaved families would also have different opinion to you on how this crisis should be handled.
 

decorativeed

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I wouldn't bother in this thread mate.

Too many people in here spouting opinions as if they are the voice of the working class, but who in reality have absolutely zero clue what's actually going on out there or how hard it is for a lot of people to simply survive at the moment.

People just presume because they are smart they know better. I've been helping out at my local food bank and with other aspects at work such as taking social care calls, helping deliver medication, etc. The one thing I've definitely learnt, is most people in this thread are clearly in a privelidged position currently and have next to no clue what is actually going on in the real world. Their opinion is worth a tiny fraction of someone half as smart as them out there driving a bus, helping deliver food or helping to get a school re-open safely, who are actually seeing the effect this is having on the people who's biggest problem isn't not being able to go to the pub, and who are actually trying to do something about it other than spout drivel about how no one should ever do anything again.

The amount of world wide epidemic experts in this thread is hilarious considering that even the actual experts would tell you they are not exactly experts.
I think you've overstepped the mark there. No empathy whatsoever with poor old @finneh who's had to cancel his order for a new Tesla.
 

Rafaeldagold

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And that just comes across as a load of whiney bollox. Some of the “smart people” who seem to wind you up are putting their lives at risk, every day, going in to work in hospitals riddled with the virus. Dealing with bereaved relatives, finding out about colleagues who have been killed. So I think it’s fair to say they have a pretty good idea what’s going on. Even though you obviously think you know best.

And that’s without even getting into the hundreds of taxi drivers, bus drivers, cleaners, supermarket workers and security guards who have been killed by this virus in the last few weeks while you’ve been making up false facts about how a recession will kill more people and lockdown needs to stop immediately. I think it’s fair to say their bereaved families would also have different opinion to you on how this crisis should be handled.
Is it a false fact that a Massive global recession Will kill more people than Covid ever could? I’d like to see the stats on that as surely losing your job, possibly losing your home, your mental health suffering immensely for a large large proportion of the population is doing so much damage. Lockdown was necessary on the beginning to stop overwhelming the NHS, but they isn’t the case now & we should be thinking how quickly to get back to some semblance of normality
 

FootballHQ

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We will have to learn to live with this virus for the foreseeable future, until a vaccine is available so at what point do we have to get back to some semblance of normality?
We can’t stay away from others & friends & family indefinitely?

Business & the economy just wouldn’t cope & the economic impact will actually soon prove a greater toll on health than Covid.

It’s not as simple as saying ‘ just stay indoors & don’t go anywhere until the virus is gone- that’s not an option
Well most shops will be reopening from start of June so unless schools really go back you will get busy shopping areas again very quickly (and of course it's just primary schools they want opening so that will act as magnet for teenagers to meet up in large groups).

Then in July you could well get some pubs opening in some form.

If numbers continue to decrease over next 2-3 weeks it's possible we could get a reasonably normal July and August. However you can split that into a normal-ish daytime and then an abnormal night time, think anyone wanting a decent night out is going to be waiting many months.

Then once October rolls in and the temperature drops that's when more problems will start I fear although that's still six months to come up with some form of effective treatment.
 

redshaw

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UnrelatedPsuedo

I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!
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They have said 25 percent overall. They cant double count home tests.

But from the start until home tests were done, yes they were double counting.

Thats my under standing anyway.
I think the assumption was that Patient A may have several tests during a hospital stay. That accounted for the difference.

I doubt anyone thought two tests at the same time was the reason.

It’s just another example of what cnuts they are. “Aha! We said 100,000 tests a day. Not people! I have bested you in a battle of wits!”

No. You’re lying scumbags that I’d gladly see dead.

That’s not overly dramatic either. If the entire Cabinet died tomorrow in a tragic Zoom related electrocution, I’d raise a glass. They are knowingly killing people and have been doing so for months.

feck the Conservative party, and anyone that voted for Boris.

[I shouldn’t have to say it. Of course there are great people that lean and vote right. But if you voted for that piece of shit and still defend it, you’re a corruptive voter, blocking this countries progress]

[Shouldn’t have to say this either : Corbyn was unelectable and has nothing to do with the above]

@arnie_ni - apologies that took a turn halfway through. Only the first bit is in response to your post.
 

sun_tzu

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Stockholm at 7.3% antibodies as of end of April
https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/tester-73-procent-bar-pa-antikroppar-i-stockholm/

Virus really taking off in Brazil now breaking 1000 deaths per day and 20k dead.

Also heard and will try to confirm that one third of the deaths are under 60 in Brazil.
Isnt london at around 17%
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...vid-19-in-london-one-in-20-across-uk-11992393
remind me again who was going for the heard immunity strategy

Latin America does look like its going to be the next area hit badly... so far africa seems to have avoided huge outbreaks thankfully though I do worry that they might be the next area
 

redshaw

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Isnt london at around 17%
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...vid-19-in-london-one-in-20-across-uk-11992393
remind me again who was going for the heard immunity strategy

Latin America does look like its going to be the next area hit badly... so far africa seems to have avoided huge outbreaks thankfully though I do worry that they might be the next area
Brazil might be the poster child of what happens when you try to embrace it, give it long enough it will smoulder and get a huge grip of the populace but some might see stopping the economy there would be worse.
 
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Wolverine

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The Lancet's just published a multinational observation study on nearly 100 000 patients
https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620311806.pdf

Found no evidence of benefit on use of hydroxychloroquine +/- macrolide with regards to inpatient outcomes. But did find increased risk of new arrythmias with their use.

I know that there is a trial going on for prophylactic use in healthcare workers started in Brighton and Oxford with aim to be expanded to 25 UK sites, hoping to test on 40,000 healthcare workers from Europe, Africa, Asia and South America. I wonder how the result from this will affect people's opinion on those enrolled on trial. I mean infections themselves can pre-dispose patients to arrythmias and I wonder if this drug combo might lower the threshold for that.

Am worried about another thing is lack of judicious antibiotics use and prescription in primary and secondary care now with covid with meropenem widely used in hospital (to treat suspected superadded bacterial infection) and because of fears of throat examinations antibiotics being given for tonsilitis without seeing if indicated.
If you think this is bad cant imagine living in a post-antibiotic world.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Is it a false fact that a Massive global recession Will kill more people than Covid ever could? I’d like to see the stats on that as surely losing your job, possibly losing your home, your mental health suffering immensely for a large large proportion of the population is doing so much damage. Lockdown was necessary on the beginning to stop overwhelming the NHS, but they isn’t the case now & we should be thinking how quickly to get back to some semblance of normality
The “stats on that” are the biggest recession in modern history. In the Great Depression of the 1930s, mortality increased. Paradoxically, the biggest decreases in peacetime mortality have historically been associated with the times of most prosperity (presumably because of industrial accidents, more motor traffic, more travel, more boozing etc)

And I totally agree we should be trying to get back to some semblance of normality. I think that’s the number one priority right now, in almost every country in the world. I’m actually struggling to work out what noodle’s point is at this stage. He just seems to need to have people to blame or lash out at for the shit show we’re all enduring because of the virus.

Thinking about it, there’s a similarity to his views on football. Where Manchester United only ever lost football matches because of staggering managerial incompetence.
 
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