SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Jacko21

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That could be any late night on Old Compton St, how do we know it was last night? Tends to be like that at chucking out theatre time but theatres are not open.

Either that or people are truly blithering idiots and they deserve everything coming to them, but no doubt the Government will get the blame.
That was from Saturday evening - there were lots of others videos/photos confirming it.
 

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Smores

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A bit off topic, but.. meanwhile, in the Chinese republic, yet another Virus (just days after they found something similar to swine flu) :

Black death

The international community should pressure China to make it illegal to eat all these exotic animals.
Occurrences of the plague aren't that uncommon world wide to be fair. We'll have years of such news stories which are only news worthy due to being topical, especially if it's China
 

massi83

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So basically to achieve 'herd immunity' would take many years of waves & infection peaks to achieve?
Greatttt
As Pogue stated: no antibodies doesn't necessarily mean no immunity. But that scenario is possible. Although it is also possible that the virus mutates to less harmful. Too early for predictions for time-frames longer than 2 years.

And we still haven't had a single case of re-infection. 3 months ago there were already over 1 million confirmed cases. So if immunity would severely decrease in 3 months, we should have already seen re-infections.

I won't personally worry about re-infection before we have proof of 50+ cases in 2 separate countries.
 
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Similar results from Spain as previously from China that antibodies decrease a bit in 2-3 months. 14% of people who previously tested positive, tested negative 2 months later. Especially the people who had no symptoms.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2471AL
@Pogue Mahone
So basically to achieve 'herd immunity' would take many years of waves & infection peaks to achieve?
Greatttt
Gotta take T-cell immunity into consideration too, appears there's going to be a lot of that.

Roughly 30 per cent of the blood donors who’d given blood in May 2020 had COVID-19-specific T cells, a figure that’s much higher than previous antibody tests have shown.
https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown

As ever, it appears we still have so much to learn about this virus.
 
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massi83

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Gotta take T-cell immunity into consideration too, appears there's going to be a lot of that.
Yes. That has been known for a while also. Although Karolinska misscalculated again :) when they stated that it could be double the amount compared to antibodies. If that was true, we couldn't find populations where antibody tests gave higher results than 33%. But Ischgl had 42% and villages in Bergamo 57%.
 
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Yes. That has been known for a while also. Although Karolinska misscalculated again :) when they stated that it could be double the amount compared to antibodies. If that was true, we couldn't find populations where antibody tests gave higher results than 33%. But Ischgl had 42% and villages in Bergamo 57%.
Why is that Massi?

Maybe those villages in Bergamo have herd immunity?

also...

In a separate statement issued later, the Bergamo health agency said that most of those in the sample were residents of the worst-hit areas. Many had already been put under quarantine, the statement added.
 

massi83

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Why is that Massi?

Maybe those villages in Bergamo have herd immunity?
Because even if 100% of the villages were infected 33% would have antibodies and 67% would have blocked it with t-cells, if their assumption was correct. So that is definite and total proof that their assumption is impossible, since 57>33.
 
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Because even if 100% of the villages were infected 33% would have antibodies and 67% would have blocked it with t-cells, if their assumption was correct. So that is definite and total proof that their assumption is impossible, since 57>33.
"Could" was the vital part of that though, it was made very clear that the study showed that there was a high degree of T-Cell immunity, but also that it's such a difficult procedure and extremely difficult to do large scale so that they can't say much more with any degree of certainty.

But the difference in T-Cell immunity in that study compared to antibodies does suggest there's a fair bit more immunity out there than antibody tests show.

Considering how there is a real scare about BAME and Covid-19 in the UK, I'd imagine there's a chance that certain groups of people may be more likely to produce a t-cell response than others.
 

villain

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As Pogue stated: no antibodies doesn't necessarily mean no immunity. But that scenario is possible. Although it is also possible that the virus mutates to less harmful. Too early for predictions for time-frames longer than 2 years.

And we still haven't had a single case of re-infection. 3 months ago there were already over 1 million confirmed cases. So if immunity would severely decrease in 3 months, we should have already seen re-infections.

I won't personally worry about re-infection before we have proof of 50+ cases in 2 separate countries.
Ok cool that's good to know, thanks
 

massi83

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"Could" was the vital part of that though, it was made very clear that the study showed that there was a high degree of T-Cell immunity, but also that it's such a difficult procedure and extremely difficult to do large scale so that they can't say much more with any degree of certainty.

But the difference in T-Cell immunity in that study compared to antibodies does suggest there's a fair bit more immunity out there than antibody tests show.
"Could" is a stupid word to use for something we already know is impossible.
 

massi83

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You're making the assumption that all groups of humans will have the same reaction to Covid-19, which by now should be quite clear to you, is "stupid".
Remember when you thought pregnant women couldn't be more suspect to getting infected. Remember when you thought 26% of Stockholm would be infected by 1.5. You are always wrong and I have been correct about almost everything numbers-wise. You will find out later that I am right about this also. I don't have any interest to educate you more anymore, since you have proven unwilling to learn and just argue for the sake of arguing, while being wrong about everything.
 
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Remember when you thought pregnant women couldn't be more suspect to getting infected. Remember when you thought 26% of Stockholm would be infected by 1.5. You are always wrong and I have been correct about almost everything numbers-wise. You will find out later that I am right about this also. I don't have any interest to educate you more anymore, since you have proven unwilling to learn and just argue for the sake of arguing, while being wrong about everything.
Still thinking you're right? No wonder you don't like the T-Cell information.

Fair enough.

Roughly 30 per cent of the blood donors who’d given blood in May 2020 had COVID-19-specific T cells
We clearly know now that one village in Bergamo will not be effected the same as a village in another City or country, but hey man, you have all the answers. We also know that of that 50-something% of Bergamo, many will have had t-cell and antibodies.
 
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Could they not have both?
Medically I have no clue, but it isn't what Karolinska stated.

Patients with severe COVID-19 often developed a strong T-cell response and an antibody response; in those with milder symptoms it was not always possible to detect an antibody response, but despite this many still showed a marked T-cell response.
Stop talking shite massi.
 

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Bit anxious about all this again. Seems to come and go really depending on what I've read or heard. Most of the time I'm completely fine and then suddenly I'm terrified about the idea of having it and what could happen to me or someone I love.
Me too, in the past month I've stopped thinking about it quite a bit and then last week I read a few accounts of people who have long term complications due to Covid (All under the age of 30) and it sounds awful.
 
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They did not state anything else than imunity might be higher than we thought and to get the full picture we need to test for T-Cells too, to be fair.
It bothers him @BootsyCollins because he's put everything behind Stockholm having a lower immunity than the health ministry suggested, his confirmation bias makes him ignore that Karolinska confirmed exactly what you asked, patients can have both T-Cell and antibody response. He's one of many reasons I barely bother to post in here, too many posters thinking they know all the answers. You'd hope the current situations in Lisbon and Melbourne, 2 places that have done an incredible job "so far" would have taught people that it's gonna be a long road and nothing is guaranteed, nor does anyone have the answers they think they have.

As you say mate, Karolinska were clear that no big conclusions can be made other than that many more people are likely to be immune than antibody tests show. Which is great news for everyone obviously.
 
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For those still interested in this kind of stuff:

Across the hospitals in our Trust (a large group of teaching hospitals in London), they've been doing antibody testing for all staff who want it. Current rate of positivity is 23%.

Obviously a few potential factors to take into account (it will be a high prevalence group most likely, though they're testing everyone, not just frontline medical workers. Also may be some selection bias as it is currently voluntary).

That is still higher than I expected it to be though.
 

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I hope this is the right thread to share this, but my uncle died from Covid today. Being devastated is more than an understatement. My dad is mentally broken down from it.
 

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It bothers him @BootsyCollins because he's put everything behind Stockholm having a lower immunity than the health ministry suggested, his confirmation bias makes him ignore that Karolinska confirmed exactly what you asked, patients can have both T-Cell and antibody response. He's one of many reasons I barely bother to post in here, too many posters thinking they know all the answers. You'd hope the current situations in Lisbon and Melbourne, 2 places that have done an incredible job "so far" would have taught people that it's gonna be a long road and nothing is guaranteed, nor does anyone have the answers they think they have.

As you say mate, Karolinska were clear that no big conclusions can be made other than that many more people are likely to be immune than antibody tests show. Which is great news for everyone obviously.
To add to this, some interesting papers are coming out now looking at SARS-CoV-2 specific pathology. Specifically I have been interested in the investigation of basal levels of CD8+ T cells and NK Cells (both resting and activated). It looks like, not surprisingly, that the severity of SARS-CoV-2 infection is inversely proportional to these levels. This would suggest that the initial innate immune response is crucial. I wonder if this also might be why antibody titers are not necessarily lining up (ie, the B-Cell cavalry are never really involved in the fight). None of this is necessarily shocking, but it is still great to be able to look at SARS-CoV-2 specific immune response studies.

p.s Any other science nerds out there think of Natural Born Killers whenever they discuss NK Cells?
 

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To add to this, some interesting papers are coming out now looking at SARS-CoV-2 specific pathology. Specifically I have been interested in the investigation of basal levels of CD8+ T cells and NK Cells (both resting and activated). It looks like, not surprisingly, that the severity of SARS-CoV-2 infection is inversely proportional to these levels. This would suggest that the initial innate immune response is crucial. I wonder if this also might be why antibody titers are not necessarily lining up (ie, the B-Cell cavalry are never really involved in the fight). None of this is necessarily shocking, but it is still great to be able to look at SARS-CoV-2 specific immune response studies.

p.s Any other science nerds out there think of Natural Born Killers whenever they discuss NK Cells?
Which helps explain why kids generally get only a mild illness, right?
 

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Which helps explain why kids generally get only a mild illness, right?
Possibly, although some papers suggest that it may be due to the relatively lower levels of ACE2 in children compared to adults. It's probably both. Or something else. Definitely one of those.
 

entropy

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Almost every disaster man made or otherwise requires black, Latino, and indigenous communities to bear the brunt while also fighting for limited resources. Disgusting that this is accepted as a norm and we do little to nothing to fix it.
 
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Cardboard elk

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Occurrences of the plague aren't that uncommon world wide to be fair. We'll have years of such news stories which are only news worthy due to being topical, especially if it's China
No, I disagree, it is newsworthy due to the fact these guys ate the wrong kind of animal, which is why we get many of these viruses transferred to humans.
They have been eating marmots in this case. It's a no-brainer to forbid a range of wild and exotic animal hunting and eating to prevent future pandemics.
In this case it was the black death, bubonic plague. Next time it might be another sars virus, even deadlier. So I think this needs more article space, not less. But maybe we can neglect such matters and just deal with the epidemics as they arise then.

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/sto...-alert-two-cases-confirmed-1697394-2020-07-06
 

JPRouve

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You have to love the official french Covid-19 page, they have been tweaking it during the last two weekends and today we have +10530 deaths...:nervous:
 

Maluco

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Me too, in the past month I've stopped thinking about it quite a bit and then last week I read a few accounts of people who have long term complications due to Covid (All under the age of 30) and it sounds awful.
Yeah, I am in South America and have been at home since March. I now have to prepare to go back to teaching next month or my business is at risk. I was relaxed because the figures are genuinely in our favour if we are under 50, but the risk of complications leaves me anxious about going back.

I thought we might have more clarity on treatment by now but there is still so much that Is unknown.
 

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No, I disagree, it is newsworthy due to the fact these guys ate the wrong kind of animal, which is why we get many of these viruses transferred to humans.
They have been eating marmots in this case. It's a no-brainer to forbid a range of wild and exotic animal hunting and eating to prevent future pandemics.
In this case it was the black death, bubonic plague. Next time it might be another sars virus, even deadlier. So I think this needs more article space, not less. But maybe we can neglect such matters and just deal with the epidemics as they arise then.

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/sto...-alert-two-cases-confirmed-1697394-2020-07-06
This is caused by the bacteria yersinia pestis, not a virus, and is transferred via fleas, not ingestion.
 

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I hope this is the right thread to share this, but my uncle died from Covid today. Being devastated is more than an understatement. My dad is mentally broken down from it.
Ahh that is horrible. Condolences to your family at this time :(
 

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Ahh that is horrible. Condolences to your family at this time :(
Thank you so much for the kind words. We couldn't even see him before he passed away as he lives on the other side of the country. I don't know how my father or my grandparents will ever deal with this. My dad was crying like a little child on the phone, it broke my heart. He already lost his whole livelihood due to this fecking virus, this is just not fair...
 

Port Vale Devil

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Thank you so much for the kind words. We couldn't even see him before he passed away as he lives on the other side of the country. I don't know how my father or my grandparents will ever deal with this. My dad was crying like a little child on the phone, it broke my heart. He already lost his whole livelihood due to this fecking virus, this is just not fair...

No it is not.

Life is so cruel sometimes and no one should lose their children before they go as your grandparents unfortunately have. Good luck in your difficult time.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Thank you so much for the kind words. We couldn't even see him before he passed away as he lives on the other side of the country. I don't know how my father or my grandparents will ever deal with this. My dad was crying like a little child on the phone, it broke my heart. He already lost his whole livelihood due to this fecking virus, this is just not fair...
Sorry to hear that. I’ve a terrible habit of getting caught up in all the science arguments in this thread, without thinking about the people behind the stats. Condolences to you and your family.
 

Fluctuation0161

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That could be any late night on Old Compton St, how do we know it was last night? Tends to be like that at chucking out theatre time but theatres are not open.

Either that or people are truly blithering idiots and they deserve everything coming to them, but no doubt the Government will get the blame.
Open pubs/bars in a busy city. This is what happens. The government reopened pubs and bars so should rightly be criticised for these scenes.
 

Maluco

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I hope this is the right thread to share this, but my uncle died from Covid today. Being devastated is more than an understatement. My dad is mentally broken down from it.
Sorry to hear this mate. My mum died last year and one of the hardest parts was seeing my dad so upset. Things will never be the same for us, but my dad has gone back to work and has found things to enjoy again.

It’s a long road, but there is hope ahead. He will find strength. All the best to you and your family.