SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

JPRouve

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The best bar for social distancing has been the old oak :lol: :lol: :lol: they have taken a real hit in the amount they let in, haven't been in to BDSM since it reopened, I guess a lot less people maybe running it all out of 1 of the bars to make use of the counters as tables
There is not much social distancing in that.:angel:
 

stu_1992

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The best bar for social distancing has been the old oak :lol: :lol: :lol: they have taken a real hit in the amount they let in, haven't been in to BDSM since it reopened, I guess a lot less people maybe running it all out of 1 of the bars to make use of the counters as tables
No harm in the Old Oak being less busy. Keep the creepy 50 year old lads away from the 18 year olds.
 

Virgil

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And now they reckon there are almost 600k of Brits on holiday in Spain at present. Thats with a pandemic. In Feb over 4 million were on holiday to bring the virus back. Then we wonder why our numbers have been so bad when compared to the rest of Europe. Numbers infected throughout the world also seems to be rising alarming over 16 million now but 1 million of those in the last 4 days. Worrying.
 

balaks

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Anybody who thought booking a holiday to Spain was a good idea deserves everything they get. To pretend they are 'shocked' that they now need to quarantine is laughable.
 

jojojo

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For some, not all, of those travelers to Spain the situation is more complicated than, "I want to do a pub crawl in Benidorm."

There are about 300k Brits living in Spain - some will be parents, grandparents, kids. There are plenty of British/Spanish families around. Around a million Brits own property the. That brings personal ties and business/organisational issues for lots of people.

Personally, I may not be that sympathetic to the tourists (not even those just traveling within Spain!) who are reigniting the epidemic by travelling from high incidence areas to low, or from social distancing to "all bets are off" in clubs and bars. But I do understand that for a good number of them, the trip will have been about more than that.
 

horsechoker

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For some, not all, of those travelers to Spain the situation is more complicated than, "I want to do a pub crawl in Benidorm."

There are about 300k Brits living in Spain - some will be parents, grandparents, kids. There are plenty of British/Spanish families around. Around a million Brits own property the. That brings personal ties and business/organisational issues for lots of people.

Personally, I may not be that sympathetic to the tourists (not even those just traveling within Spain!) who are reigniting the epidemic by travelling from high incidence areas to low, or from social distancing to "all bets are off" in clubs and bars. But I do understand that for a good number of them, the trip will have been about more than that.
Moreover the rise in cases and restrictions happened very quickly which led people with travel plans between a rock and a hard place. People usually make these plans month in advance and within the space of a few days the conditions had changed so people have to either cancel their holiday or go in stay in quarantine for 2 weeks. People are travelling to other countries too, it was just Spain had the misfortune of having a spike in cases, it could have easily been Italy, France or Portugal.

As it's been said, how will any of this be enforced?
 

VP89

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Anybody who thought booking a holiday to Spain was a good idea deserves everything they get. To pretend they are 'shocked' that they now need to quarantine is laughable.
:lol: It's so true.
Asking for a friend, is a weekend in Bruges OK? Don't Colin Farrell me
 

RobinLFC

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Moreover the rise in cases and restrictions happened very quickly which led people with travel plans between a rock and a hard place. People usually make these plans month in advance and within the space of a few days the conditions had changed so people have to either cancel their holiday or go in stay in quarantine for 2 weeks. People are travelling to other countries too, it was just Spain had the misfortune of having a spike in cases, it could have easily been Italy, France or Portugal.

As it's been said, how will any of this be enforced?
Even when restrictions were being eased, the sensible approach would've been "let's just accept that this is not the right time to travel abroad" rather than "let me squeeze in a holiday here or there as soon as it's possible again even though I'll contribute to the virus being spread again".
 

RobinLFC

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:lol: It's so true.
Asking for a friend, is a weekend in Bruges OK? Don't Colin Farrell me
The whole of Flanders has seen a rapid spike of infections the last two weeks, our expert counsel is currently discussing heavier restrictions or even a semi/soft lockdown again. I'd stay as far away from here as possible.
 

horsechoker

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Even when restrictions were being eased, the sensible approach would've been "let's just accept that this is not the right time to travel abroad" rather than "let me squeeze in a holiday here or there as soon as it's possible again even though I'll contribute to the virus being spread again".
I personally think that people should give most holidays a miss unless it's to see family or something like that. It's been a stressful time for a lot of people and going on holiday may at least help them to return to work/life with a better state of mind. It sounds selfish because many people can't even go on holiday but where possible people should take time for themselves, particularly as winter might be very difficult this year. Moreover, governments have eased these restrictions which says to people that it's safe to travel and there are people who depend on tourism for their own income.

I don't want to tar everyone who travels with the same brush as there will be those who go to Magaluf and have their tongue up some random woman's arsehole in a nightclub and those who just go with family, or visit friends/relatives and follow safety protocols. Personally, I don't understand wanting to go on holiday when you have to follow so many different safety measures but that's just me.
 

VP89

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The whole of Flanders has seen a rapid spike of infections the last two weeks, our expert counsel is currently discussing heavier restrictions or even a semi/soft lockdown again. I'd stay as far away from here as possible.
Wow, that's pretty shite.Thanks for the heads up
 

Sultan

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This may have already been written.

Why can't the airports have those returning from abroad to have instant testing/results? Much like ongoing sporting events testing. Saves two weeks isolation, good for the economy and people's mental health.
 

oates

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For some, not all, of those travelers to Spain the situation is more complicated than, "I want to do a pub crawl in Benidorm."

There are about 300k Brits living in Spain - some will be parents, grandparents, kids. There are plenty of British/Spanish families around. Around a million Brits own property the. That brings personal ties and business/organisational issues for lots of people.

Personally, I may not be that sympathetic to the tourists (not even those just traveling within Spain!) who are reigniting the epidemic by travelling from high incidence areas to low, or from social distancing to "all bets are off" in clubs and bars. But I do understand that for a good number of them, the trip will have been about more than that.
It's just circumstance and I'm afraid that people just need to accept that people travelling to and fro between Spain and the UK were just unlucky, and at the same time those who didn't could do with dropping the Blame Game from their list of things to play with. The whole World is subject to the whims of Covid, Luck and carelessness can come into that.

It could as easily be people travelling between Italy and the UK if or when there is a spike, and we have put back plans again and again to return to the UK to sort out various issues and as of now our plans are in place for September. We could get unlucky as well, we just don't know but people's minds work in this way, that they need to be able to blame people for their choices and lump them into an assumed type of behaviour.
 

Pogue Mahone

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This may have already been written.

Why can't the airports have those returning from abroad to have instant testing/results? Much like ongoing sporting events testing. Saves two weeks isolation, good for the economy and people's mental health.
Testing can be inaccurate. Easy to miss cases, especially in very early stages of the disease. You’d miss almost everyone who picked up the virus on the aeroplane/in the airport.
 

Penna

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We're planning a month in the UK in September - we've just bought a small property there and we want to see it, plus we haven't seen family for over a year now and we need to do some other stuff that can't be done from here.

I'm more worried about the risks in the UK than I am about being here in Italy, although the village is now busy with Dutch and German tourists (who are in holiday mode rather than stay safe mode). However, I won't be surprised if new restrictions are placed by the time we plan to go, either by the British or the Italian government. It's hard to make any plans.
 

Pogue Mahone

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This is interesting/encouraging, even though it was always likely to happen. Social distancing measures flattening influenza curve, as well as covid. Biggest fear of second wave in autumn/winter was the fact that healthcare services would usually be slammed with seasonal illnesses at this time. If we’ve massively reduced incidence of influenza etc then we’ll be much better placed to cope with a surge of covid when the weather gets cold.
 

balaks

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This is interesting/encouraging, even though it was always likely to happen. Social distancing measures flattening influenza curve, as well as covid. Biggest fear of second wave in autumn/winter was the fact that healthcare services would usually be slammed with seasonal illnesses at this time. If we’ve massively reduced incidence of influenza etc then we’ll be much better placed to cope with a surge of covid when the weather gets cold.
Fingers crossed that is exactly what happens.
 

golden_blunder

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This may have already been written.

Why can't the airports have those returning from abroad to have instant testing/results? Much like ongoing sporting events testing. Saves two weeks isolation, good for the economy and people's mental health.
Plus a punch on the face for stupidity
 

golden_blunder

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Anyone that travels should be subject to wearing a tracker ankle bracelet like prisoners do on parole. When it detects you’ve left your home during the quarantine period the cops come get you
 

hmchan

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This may have already been written.

Why can't the airports have those returning from abroad to have instant testing/results? Much like ongoing sporting events testing. Saves two weeks isolation, good for the economy and people's mental health.
We are actually doing this in Hong Kong. People returning from abroad have to leave a sputum sample and stay in a designated area before the results come out. Those tested positive will be sent to hospital, while those tested negative will quarantine at home for 14 days. But there are some exemptions and this causes the third outbreak now.
 

Don't Kill Bill

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It's just circumstance and I'm afraid that people just need to accept that people travelling to and fro between Spain and the UK were just unlucky, and at the same time those who didn't could do with dropping the Blame Game from their list of things to play with. The whole World is subject to the whims of Covid, Luck and carelessness can come into that.

It could as easily be people travelling between Italy and the UK if or when there is a spike, and we have put back plans again and again to return to the UK to sort out various issues and as of now our plans are in place for September. We could get unlucky as well, we just don't know but people's minds work in this way, that they need to be able to blame people for their choices and lump them into an assumed type of behaviour.
If you think about the human cost in deaths and the eye watering financial cost of shutting down an economy each time this virus gets out of hand, I wonder if we can continue to have such jet set multinational lifestyles as an option?

I wouldn't want to blame people individually but they have made choices with consequences and having your life spread across continents is one choice and these are the consequences of making those decisions. It is unfortunate but it is where we are for the time being at least and it might be forever if the vaccines don't work.
 

Wibble

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Anyone that travels should be subject to wearing a tracker ankle bracelet like prisoners do on parole. When it detects you’ve left your home during the quarantine period the cops come get you
We are tracking everyone who is required to self quarantine - cops are calling in person and/or visiting daily and fining anyone who isn't complying. I'd prefer the tracking braclet as people are dicks.
 

Wibble

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This is interesting/encouraging, even though it was always likely to happen. Social distancing measures flattening influenza curve, as well as covid. Biggest fear of second wave in autumn/winter was the fact that healthcare services would usually be slammed with seasonal illnesses at this time. If we’ve massively reduced incidence of influenza etc then we’ll be much better placed to cope with a surge of covid when the weather gets cold.
Except Victoria is barely coping even with stage 3 lockdowns. I have a nasty feeling that covid loves winter.
 

massi83

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Except Victoria is barely coping even with stage 3 lockdowns. I have a nasty feeling that covid loves winter.
You keep saying this. (I wouldn't come back to this if I didn't generally think you are one of the best posters in science related threads, but here I think you have underperformed your normal capabilities). What is your definition on "winter", in Melbourne it is warmer and there is stronger UV radiation now than in Nordic countries in early April, when cases started to come down without hard lockdown at any point.
 

Penna

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If you think about the human cost in deaths and the eye watering financial cost of shutting down an economy each time this virus gets out of hand, I wonder if we can continue to have such jet set multinational lifestyles as an option?

I wouldn't want to blame people individually but they have made choices with consequences and having your life spread across continents is one choice and these are the consequences of making those decisions. It is unfortunate but it is where we are for the time being at least and it might be forever if the vaccines don't work.
Some people have a lot of holidays for fun as part of their lifestyle and they'll have to adapt to the new circumstances. For our part, we've been nowhere (even in Italy) for months and months now, and had intended to go to the UK (not for a holiday, to do practical stuff) much earlier than September. We had no intention of becoming Italian residents before our hand was forced by Brexit and we had to choose between living in Europe or outside it.

As jojojo said, lots of people have lives in more than one country. Other people just like lots of holidays abroad, but the two things are not the same.
 

Wibble

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You keep saying this. (I wouldn't come back to this if I didn't generally think you are one of the best posters in science related threads, but here I think you have underperformed your normal capabilities). What is your definition on "winter", in Melbourne it is warmer and there is stronger UV radiation now than in Nordic countries in early April, when cases started to come down without hard lockdown at any point.
Temperature and UV are only part of it and probably a small part of it. Melbourne winters aren't even as cold as the UK, much less Scandanavia but winter drives oeople inside. Even here in Sydney, with temperatures far warmer than Melbourne, that would have people in the UK thinking about pub gardens and picnics, it is a cause to wrap up, wear beanies and stay inside. This is a big driver in Victorian infections.

Plus standards of what is acceptable here are different. 500 infections in a day and 5 deaths is enough for people to start considering stage 4 lockdowns and sending in the military to enforce it. NSW had 15 new infections, only 2 of which were untraced community infections and Qld are thinking of shutting the border.

Our government have recognised that eliminating community infection is the only real way to protect the economy until a vaccine. Which is bizarre given how incompetent they usually are.

And I have no proof that season is a huge factor but Europe seems to have benefited from summer just as Australia seems to have suffered for winter - pubs and restaurants that are now mainly inside with windows closed, to keep the heating in, would have outside seating full and if indoors windows and doors would be open in spring or summer. Only 6 more weeks of winter so I guess we will see.
 
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