SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Jacko21

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Maybe elderly/vulnerable people continuing to be very careful? When the virus first hit they would have been packed into pubs, churches etc and allowing grandkids climb all over them. I get the impression most elderly people have radically changed their behaviour and will continue to do so for a while. Also, care homes have much betted procedures in place to protect them.

Having said all that, once enough young people are infected it’s inevitable that a proportion of the most vulnerable will too.
I get that sense in and around where I live.

And shielding may have officially ended, but I (like many others) am continuing to curtail my usual behaviour.

I do worry about the elderly population in particular. My grandmother hasn't left her home since March and you can see it has really take its toll. And we're only in August.
 

acnumber9

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I feel a little uncomfortable with people being blamed for deaths when the Government is giving people financial incentive to go out.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I feel a little uncomfortable with people being blamed for deaths when the Government is giving people financial incentive to go out.
People can go out in a responsible way. I’m not a fan of finger-pointing either but social media is full of footage of young people doing completely reckless partying. Which is a worry.

To be honest, I think I’d have done the same at their age. You feel immortal and rarely consider downstream consequences of your actions. Plus the urge to socialise and party is incredibly strong. It’s the way we’re wired.
 

acnumber9

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People can go out in a responsible way. I’m not a fan of finger-pointing either but social media is full of footage of young people doing completely reckless partying. Which is a worry.

To be honest, I think I’d have done the same at their age. You feel immortal and rarely consider downstream consequences of your actions. Plus the urge to socialise and party is incredibly strong. It’s the way we’re wired.
And many will be and could still be passing it on. Yes there will be plenty of footage of that but nobody is going to be sharing footage of people being responsible.

Don’t get me wrong, there’s no doubt many people will only be thinking of themselves, but the Government knew this would happen and will be delighted that it’s those people who will be getting the blame now. Not only did they know it will happen, they’ve encouraged it to happen. I know they have the difficult balancing act between public health and economy but the Eat Out to Help Out Scheme, why do you have to sit in? The business would benefit more financially if take out was allowed. Not that many aren’t doing that already.
 

decorativeed

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I feel a little uncomfortable with people being blamed for deaths when the Government is giving people financial incentive to go out.
And telling people to get back on public transport and return to their workplaces etc. The under 30 demographic are the exact same as those who work in retail, bars and restaurants.

Not that I'm saying there aren't a lot of irresponsible young people out there determined to meet their mates and party at any cost, but the rise in cases won't be totally down to that.
 

Pogue Mahone

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And many will be and could still be passing it on. Yes there will be plenty of footage of that but nobody is going to be sharing footage of people being responsible.

Don’t get me wrong, there’s no doubt many people will only be thinking of themselves, but the Government knew this would happen and will be delighted that it’s those people who will be getting the blame now. Not only did they know it will happen, they’ve encouraged it to happen. I know they have the difficult balancing act between public health and economy but the Eat Out to Help Out Scheme, why do you have to sit in? The business would benefit more financially if take out was allowed. Not that many aren’t doing that already.
Eating in keeps more restaurant staff in employment than eating out. Plus getting people out of their house increases footfall on the streets, which might benefit other small businesses. It’s a tough one. We do need people out and about to keep the economy ticking over. But only if they are sensible. And people are rarely sensible after a few drinks.
 

acnumber9

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Eating in keeps more restaurant staff in employment than eating out. Plus getting people out of their house increases footfall on the streets, which might benefit other small businesses. It’s a tough one. We do need people out and about to keep the economy ticking over. But only if they are sensible. And people are rarely sensible after a few drinks.
It’s a fair point on the waiting staff I suppose. Could there not have been a stipulation that to use the scheme they had to retain all their staff though?
 

Dancfc

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Not looking good in Spain and France.

France saw 4771 cases yesterday.

I know they had their highest number of cases for a while yesterday but it's remarkable how well Italy are doing *touchwood*
 

Jacko21

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Update for boroughs within Greater Manchester expected later.

Looks like measures could become even more hyper-localised.
 

Penna

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Update for boroughs within Greater Manchester expected later.

Looks like measures could become even more hyper-localised.
They should, as that's the best way to enforce the restrictions and causes the least inconvenience to people in localities where there are few cases. My sister lives in Lostock near Bolton and is therefore subject to the restrictions, but in reality Lostock doesn't have a problem.
 

decorativeed

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They should, as that's the best way to enforce the restrictions and causes the least inconvenience to people in localities where there are few cases. My sister lives in Lostock near Bolton and is therefore subject to the restrictions, but in reality Lostock doesn't have a problem.
Trouble is, it all falls apart when people from one (affected) area have to do things with people from another (unaffected) area. For example when your inlaws do your childcare, but you live in Greater Manchester and they live a mile over the boundry in Cheshire. Is it allowed for them to come into your house still or is it not? What if you drive them the other way? You end up with people just saying sod it, it's too confusing.
 

Virgil

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Trouble is, it all falls apart when people from one (affected) area have to do things with people from another (unaffected) area. For example when your inlaws do your childcare, but you live in Greater Manchester and they live a mile over the boundry in Cheshire. Is it allowed for them to come into your house still or is it not? What if you drive them the other way? You end up with people just saying sod it, it's too confusing.
It isn’t or shouldn’t be confusing at all. The rules are quite clear.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/north-west-of-england-local-restrictions-what-you-can-and-cannot-do
 

Pogue Mahone

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The younger demographic in most european countries have really let everyone down. There's obviously an argument about government control vs personal responsibility but they really should understand the gravity of their actions.

It seems likely the youth wave of infections is going to kick start infections rising across other demographics. Can anyone see any reasons it wouldn't?
BBC has an article to answer that very question.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53832981

It's nothing to worry about yet. 75% of cases are asymptomatic, 3% need hospital, and 0.3% are dying. It's some combination of younger people, better testing, better treatment, more awareness and probably others I am forgetting. We are much better prepared for round two.
From Guardian article on Spain.

Deaths have also increased across Spain, with 131 dead in the last seven days compared with 12 one month ago. About 1,400 Covid-19 patients were admitted to hospital in the last week, nearly double the figure a week earlier.
Looks like morbidity/mortality is catching up with the rapidly increasing number of cases. If this keeps up they’re in real trouble.
 

Flying high

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Good thread on schools opening.
I'm not at all convinced his theorising really takes into account what many schools will be like in practice. Distancing within each bubble will not be adhered to at all times(not worth even trying imo). This will be made worse as the weather gets colder and doors and windows need to be closed. Each bubble may be kept seperate with greater success, but I know of primary schools who have members of staff who will regularly move between bubbles. Add this to the fact that parents didn't appear to be respecting distancing or different bubbles at the end of last term, I suspect it will be even worse when full numbers return.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I'm not at all convinced his theorising really takes into account what many schools will be like in practice. Distancing within each bubble will not be adhered to at all times(not worth even trying imo). This will be made worse as the weather gets colder and doors and windows need to be closed. Each bubble may be kept seperate with greater success, but I know of primary schools who have members of staff who will regularly move between bubbles. Add this to the fact that parents didn't appear to be respecting distancing or different bubbles at the end of last term, I suspect it will be even worse when full numbers return.
Oh I agree. I think social distancing in school will be patchy at best. And arguably non-existent. I just like his point that it’s possible for the virus to be contained entirely by the actions of the rest of us. Which is an effort worth making to get children back in school.
 

Flying high

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Oh I agree. I think social distancing in school will be patchy at best. And arguably non-existent. I just like his point that it’s possible for the virus to be contained entirely by the actions of the rest of us. Which is an effort worth making to get children back in school.
I agree. But the sort of effort required can only be organised from the top.
 

Garethw

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I'm not at all convinced his theorising really takes into account what many schools will be like in practice. Distancing within each bubble will not be adhered to at all times(not worth even trying imo). This will be made worse as the weather gets colder and doors and windows need to be closed. Each bubble may be kept seperate with greater success, but I know of primary schools who have members of staff who will regularly move between bubbles. Add this to the fact that parents didn't appear to be respecting distancing or different bubbles at the end of last term, I suspect it will be even worse when full numbers return.
My six year old will be starting year 2 in a couple of weeks and the school has informed us that his “bubble” will be the entire year, which is 60 children over two classes

We were quite shocked as we were expecting a bubble of maybe 15 children where some attend in the morning the others in the afternoon.
 

Tibs

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You see so many people with their masks covering their mouth - but not their nose....does that still have some benefit? I'd imagine yes and it's better than nothing?
 

Sarni

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Not at all. I just need to know their whereabouts as I keep getting into arguments with them all over the Internet.
Please, it’s at least reasonably normal here. All over Internet there’s a huge amount of this idiocy. Never did I realize there were so many extremely dumb people around until this pandemic.
 

decorativeed

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You see so many people with their masks covering their mouth - but not their nose....does that still have some benefit? I'd imagine yes and it's better than nothing?
The benefit is that you can immediately tell who's a total idiot without having to talk to them.
 

One Night Only

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Ah people are quick to forget this demographic they're deciding the blame is also the demographic who went from being student nurses to working full time. The same age group who took on delivery roles, and extra supermarket roles. Volunteered to help elderly. Worked in factories, production etc, all while getting shite pay. Obviously the older generation helped out too. Just remember when you're playing the blame game, it's not all black and white.

But yeah because you have seen benefit Brian from across the road partying with his jobless mates just tar everyone in that age group with he same brush.
 

Stack

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Ah people are quick to forget this demographic they're deciding the blame is also the demographic who went from being student nurses to working full time. The same age group who took on delivery roles, and extra supermarket roles. Volunteered to help elderly. Worked in factories, production etc, all while getting shite pay. Obviously the older generation helped out too. Just remember when you're playing the blame game, it's not all black and white.

But yeah because you have seen benefit Brian from across the road partying with his jobless mates just tar everyone in that age group with he same brush.
The enemy is the disease its not the people. People are not the enemy.
 

Dancfc

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Ah people are quick to forget this demographic they're deciding the blame is also the demographic who went from being student nurses to working full time. The same age group who took on delivery roles, and extra supermarket roles. Volunteered to help elderly. Worked in factories, production etc, all while getting shite pay. Obviously the older generation helped out too. Just remember when you're playing the blame game, it's not all black and white.

But yeah because you have seen benefit Brian from across the road partying with his jobless mates just tar everyone in that age group with he same brush.
I wonder how many of the 'shamming' brigade were preaching 'be kind' after Caroline Flack's suicide.
 

Maagge

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Ah people are quick to forget this demographic they're deciding the blame is also the demographic who went from being student nurses to working full time. The same age group who took on delivery roles, and extra supermarket roles. Volunteered to help elderly. Worked in factories, production etc, all while getting shite pay. Obviously the older generation helped out too. Just remember when you're playing the blame game, it's not all black and white.

But yeah because you have seen benefit Brian from across the road partying with his jobless mates just tar everyone in that age group with he same brush.
It's a bit easier for the government to focus on and blame young people throwing a party than the systemic issues giving rise to infection clusters.
 

Rado_N

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You see so many people with their masks covering their mouth - but not their nose....does that still have some benefit? I'd imagine yes and it's better than nothing?
This has been one of my biggest bugbears recently.

brings a whole new meaning to the term “mouthbreather”.

fecking morons.
 

Ian Reus

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Please, it’s at least reasonably normal here. All over Internet there’s a huge amount of this idiocy. Never did I realize there were so many extremely dumb people around until this pandemic.
Pleaseeeee.
From one masked sheep to another, id rather have a wolf on the prowl with freshly sharpened Delphware than a maskless toothless wolf amongst us. I know which one will kill more people without feeling full.
 
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https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-long-term-harm-from-school-closures-12054724

No shit, Sweden have been telling you this since March ffs but people and politicians have been too desperate to paint Sweden as a failure rather than see the success in a balanced approach for all of society.

I’d argue cancelling kids sport is another than can cause long term issues, especially in the days of iPads and lockdowns.

In other news it’s brilliant that the Germans are leading the way again with regards to increasing the scientific knowledge on how virus spreads during large events. The consensus before Covid-19 was that sports and concerts were not a prime spreading spot for this kind of virus. The home and the office have always been judged the danger zones.
It’ll be great to gather more knowledge on whether or not these kind of events carry significant risk rather than it all being guesswork.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53875370
 
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