Random: Does anybody have a Sunday Times subscription? Theres an article I want to read but its behind the paywall.
Thanks
Thanks
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
UK 6 deaths and 1041 cases
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...ls-will-put-pressure-on-the-r-number-12054491
I’m arguing against the very idea that closing schools was short sighted, not backed up by the science, gave zero fecks about kids future and inequality, and those still against opening schools again are off their tits.
That’s nonsense, to be fair. At the time the schools were first closed all available evidence pointed towards schools playing a major role in community spread. Because that’s the case with all other respiratory viruses. If it turns out to be different with SARS-COV2 that would be fantastic news but certainly wasn’t something that “the science” predicted in February/March.
Exactly this. No one I knew would have taken the risk over their children’s physical health at that stage. I still believe it was the right thing to do. Now that numbers of deaths are falling, we can proceed with caution, but there is no way that exchanging months of education for potential lives at that early stage was a bad idea.
We know so much more now than we did then and there is still so much to learn.
Nar, we knew early doors from the Chinese and Italian data that children were little effected and if so, in the vast majority, asymptomatic.
From other upper respiratory viruses we know that asymptomatic carriers do not spread a virus to anything like the levels of those with symptoms.
That evidence was the entire reason the health authority in Sweden gave in March for why they absolutely would not be closing schools. Closing schools and the issues that creates within society and with the children’s future was not backed up by any evidence.
The evidence Sweden followed from the Chinese and Italian data has 100% proven 6 months later to be bang on.
And there’s stuff in there that has since proven to be completely wrong. Such as asymptomatic cases being rare. It was a huge risk at the time to make assumptions about a novel virus based on very little data. Hence most PH physicians advised against taking that risk.
In fact, there’s a growing consensus now that kids will probably play a bigger role in spreading the virus than first thought, based on that very early data. Thankfully (from my personal perspective) there’s also a consensus that it’s a risk worth taking. This is helped by the mortality rate coming right down since those early weeks/months, as we get better dealing with this virus (i.e. treating the sick and protecting the vulnerable). So again, this would support the decision to close schools down very early on in the pandemic.
Last edited:
It’s worth noting too that long term damage is still an unknown, even in the mildest of cases. No one should be claiming any sort of victory as of yet.
I don’t think anyone is claiming victory on Covid as yet.
Is there? I’m just seeing more and more confirmation that schools in younger ages aren’t an issue and that kids are more likely to get the virus from parents than to pass it on to them or anyone else.
Such as https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...ls-will-put-pressure-on-the-r-number-12054491
Closing schools went against the early evidence, no question at all Pogue. But whether closing them anyway as a ”just incase” measure was the right call or not, that’s another debate all together.
In Peru, 13 people die from a stampede at a nightclub that was breaking lockdown rules...brutal. People are getting antsy.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-53880996
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-53880996
Just been through Heathrow. No-one asking to scan the QR code on the contact tracer form to make sure you've filled it in and no-one giving a shit we're coming from a red list country.
Was actually quicker than normal, which was one plus.
Was actually quicker than normal, which was one plus.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-53884401?__twitter_impression=true
Just to back up what I said earlier in this thread btw.
So teens at exam time are more anxious than teens not in exams, colour me surprised twigs
@Jippy, where did you fly from? This seems rather bizarre in light of all the fuss that's being made about quarantine.
Year 9 students aren’t exam students.So teens at exam time are more anxious than teens not in exams, colour me surprised twigs
Split in Croatia. We used the ePassport gates, so didn't speak to anyone and then just got our bags and a taxi home.
I probably shouldn't be surprised, given the government's handling of the whole thing. The policing of the self-quarantine regime is seemingly done on trust.
Will you quarantine?
Looks like we might be called back into the office in the next couple of weeks.
Feel uneasy already
Feel uneasy already
As did my mum when she went back to work in May, I think.Looks like we might be called back into the office in the next couple of weeks.
Feel uneasy already
It is slightly irrational though. I think as soon as community transmission is under control it's safe enough to open schools and workplaces again with certain restrictions and behavioural changes in place.
Then if governments are ready to put in place more localised regulations depending on developments it should be a manageable situation.
Personally I think the initial strict lockdowns seen around the world were a good idea at the time due to all the uncertainty surrounding the virus, but we should be getting back to some semblance of normality by now (depending on which country you're in, I'm in Denmark).
Yeah we can't stay in the house for ever will just have to keep up to date with the local situation I guess.
That's a good question. Yes, mostly. It's stricter than lockdown, so you're supposed to exercise at home rather than have your hour outside, but sod that, I will go for a walk.
I have highly vulnerable family members, so appreciate the risks, so I will be careful.
The stupid thing is that the UK's new cases yesterday were around 20% of the total overall number Croatia has had and yet the government deems it higher risk than here. Croatia should not be on the list.
I'm personally interested because we have a flight back to the UK early next month and it's possible Italy will be on the naughty list by then. Of course, Italy has significantly ramped up testing again, which will have had an impact on numbers reported! You can't win with this one.
Why? South Wales has very low case numbers, probably one of the safest places in the whole of the UK.Looks like we might be called back into the office in the next couple of weeks.
Feel uneasy already
As the latest reports here saying most of the new cases are happening in the household, its probably better to stay outside as long as you can.
Because I live with an elderly relative. Am not really thinking about myself.
Have you asked your employer if they can guarantee your safety from door to door?Looks like we might be called back into the office in the next couple of weeks.
Feel uneasy already
Why is Sweden, a country with 25 people/KM2, been held up as an example to countries with 100s/km2? It's an absolutely pointless argument, I thought that would be pretty obvious.
Understood, there's a very low case load in your region so I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it. Keep up the hand hygiene and you'll be ok.
Yeah we have been lucky here. I popped out to the local's beer garden early the other day and most people were doing what they should - some obviously will never bother though.
The airlines flag you need to fill in this form a few times, but there seems to be zero actual infrastructure supporting the policy, so you should be fine.
It was 31-33c without a cloud in the sky in Bol in Croatia. More tricky here.
In life there is always idiots, just keep your distance. However don't beat yourself up that everyone not following what they're guidance is there is automatically carrying covid, they're just opening themselves up to the risk. I've been in our office for the last 2 months now (few days a week) in one of the high hotspot areas in the country and I've been ok.
Thanks - I think worrying about everything is not just tied to the current situation always been a bit like that - this don't help though
Absolutely not, there was a few colleagues that had the same anxiety about coming back to the office but once they were in for a couple of days they felt comfortable again in the workplace. I've got confidence that you'll be fine, more so due to your location & case rates there.Thanks - I think worrying about everything is not just tied to the current situation always been a bit like that - this don't help though
Funny you ask that because when I mentioned (in this thread) the population per area squared back in March as one of the reasons Sweden wouldn’t end up as a horror show with morgue trucks backed up and hospitals overflowing, I was lectured by half of the forum that Sweden is much more “urbanised” than I realised.
You have a point though.
21 regions in Sweden, 16 have not a single Covid patient in ICU currently.
22 ICU patients in total with Covid.
8 of them in Stockholm, 8 in Gothenburg.
Situation does look extremely good here.
Last edited:
I don't know about that. For whatever reason, a lot of the new infections in Italy are linked to Croatia returnees. Whether they are under reporting over there i don't know but there is definitely something going on.
Croatia has a population of 4 million with 300 cases while UK has 16/17 times the number of people with a 1000 cases and most likely more testing. Croatia is the equivalent of 5k cases in the UK.
It’s not just the kids though. What about the parents socialising in the playground? It’s probably the biggest cross section in terms of people from all walks of life.
Hopefully all schools are reminding parents about their responsibilities to act safely - parents really should all be aware by now.
For my son's new school, we've got staggered start times, so different year groups don't overlap during drop-off/home time, as well as a bunch of general guidelines on how the school day works.