SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

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It's getting a bit 'every man for himself' now. Which wouldn't be too bad if only the stupid contracted the virus, but it's all the people in public-facing jobs I feel sorry for, they have to keep working to pay for everything, and they're being put at risk too, through no fault of their own.

I do think we will have a vaccine next year though, which will help, and if some people are too stupid to take it that's their hard luck.
 

Maticmaker

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It's getting a bit 'every man for himself' now.
To be honest its never been any different, it is just in this case, some people lose their lives, whilst others lose their livelihoods; how these two public conditions are reconciled will decide everyone's future.
 
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Jippy

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'Tier 2' being brought in for those of us in London.
Bollocks. Two questions
-I'm meant to go be going back up north to see my mother next week- will I get any grief for doing this? (No-one seems to be checking anything, given my experience of Heathrow in September)
-We're meant to be going on hols at the end of the month- I guess flying out the country is no issue
 

sammsky1

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Cummings (and others) who blatantly ignored the rules they set, was the catalyst really.
Rules dont work without implementing 'the stick'.

IF covid19 isn't solvable via the vaccine and remain virulent for a few more years, western countries will have to examine their culture of 'freedom' if they want to revive their economies.
EG people will have to accept mandated digital tracking and accept the privacy impact that has and accept draconian penalties for breaking such measures such as quarantine.

I cant see any other way of mitigating behaviours recently seen in Liverpool or the Hague.
 
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SiRed

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There is on simple solution to all of this lockdown palava. Do not get tested......Ever.
If you are ill with a couple of the symptoms, do the whole isolation thing, but dont be getting a test, adding to the numbers will only mean we never get out of this pickle we are in. People aren't dying like they was 4 or 5 months ago and i imagine there are more deaths per day resulting from a RTA or even dog attacks.
I wont be getting tested for that reason alone.
 

sammsky1

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This is 100% what I think. Half the problem at the moment is the wishywashy nature of the advice, the “one rule for them” feeling breaking the “all in it together” attitude that got us through the first lock down and the endless nature with no hope that is making people say “we can’t go on like this forever, we just need to get on with life now”.
I think a 4 week hard lock down throughout November with the promise of relaxed restrictions if we manage to significantly reduce the R number would give people something to work towards and would reintroduce the team mentality. ,
How 'relaxed' do you expect December. Surely we cant allow for normal December highly boozed party season which start from 1st December with all restaurants are bars re-opened for office and corporate entertainment parties and friends get together's? Such indulgences become super spreader events, followed up by asymptomatic people going to visit parents and grandparents ets for Xmas home lunch.

I think people will have to settle for a few days of freedom over 24th-27th, but only home access?
 

MikeUpNorth

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Has anyone made big Santa beards that double as masks yet? Is this how I make my fortune?
 

sammsky1

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If this is the part you try and tell me we have a world leading system we should probably dead it now.I got a Covid test on Monday. I don’t have results yet.I could have flown to Frankfurt Airport, got a test on arrival, had my results in 5 hours and been back home before tea. The UK doesn’t even have the beginnings of a system. We just talk about how good we are at buying cotton swabs. That’s it. That’s your 12 Billion. The ability to test with slightly longer cotton buds.
Why do you think the public at large are not bothered about this?
Eg: Manchester United fans have been far more vocal about not signing Sancho than they have been on UK Governments horrific management of this pandemic.
 

SalfordRed18

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There is on simple solution to all of this lockdown palava. Do not get tested......Ever.
If you are ill with a couple of the symptoms, do the whole isolation thing, but dont be getting a test, adding to the numbers will only mean we never get out of this pickle we are in. People aren't dying like they was 4 or 5 months ago and i imagine there are more deaths per day resulting from a RTA or even dog attacks.
I wont be getting tested for that reason alone.
Found Trump's caf profile it seems
 

Maticmaker

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Has anyone made big Santa beards that double as masks yet? Is this how I make my fortune?
:D Any mask/beard contraption will have to include for the pointed red hat with a bell on the end... wearers can shout "unclean, unclean," as they wander around the stores. Can see the money rolling in already! :smirk:
 

TheGame

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The following areas are now Tier 2:
  • London
  • Essex
  • Elmbridge in Surrey
  • Barrow in Furness, Cumbria
  • York
  • North East Derbyshire
  • Chesterfield
  • Erewash, Derbyshire
Manchester likely to move to Tier 3 but Government still working out a deal with the Mayor and local authority.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54551596
 

golden_blunder

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There is on simple solution to all of this lockdown palava. Do not get tested......Ever.
If you are ill with a couple of the symptoms, do the whole isolation thing, but dont be getting a test, adding to the numbers will only mean we never get out of this pickle we are in. People aren't dying like they was 4 or 5 months ago and i imagine there are more deaths per day resulting from a RTA or even dog attacks.
I wont be getting tested for that reason alone.
You do realise if everyone thought like you there’d be no data for scientists to work with?
Dog attacks? Are you taking the piss!?
 

djembatheking

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My 80 year old mother in law said today that she would rather see her grandchildren and great grandchildren in the garden in the spring than see them indoors at Christmas and risk not seeing another spring. Thankfully she has mentally prepared herself and we are all going to have a quiet christmas and take it from there.
The way a lot of people are behaving I can see hospitals being totally stretched by Christmas and things could be looking pretty grim . I hope I am wrong.
 

esmufc07

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My 80 year old mother in law said today that she would rather see her grandchildren and great grandchildren in the garden in the spring than see them indoors at Christmas and risk not seeing another spring. Thankfully she has mentally prepared herself and we are all going to have a quiet christmas and take it from there.
The way a lot of people are behaving I can see hospitals being totally stretched by Christmas and things could be looking pretty grim . I hope I am wrong.
Hopefully she won't be mauled by a dog in the interim
 

hurstafus

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There is on simple solution to all of this lockdown palava. Do not get tested......Ever.
If you are ill with a couple of the symptoms, do the whole isolation thing, but dont be getting a test, adding to the numbers will only mean we never get out of this pickle we are in. People aren't dying like they was 4 or 5 months ago and i imagine there are more deaths per day resulting from a RTA or even dog attacks.
I wont be getting tested for that reason alone.
I wanted to lurk, but this is ridiculous. Your solution is to pull yourself away from society even if you don't have COVID thus potentially unnecessarily damaging the economy, and then if you do have it, nobody will know, so they can't trace where you've been or where you picked it up from, so the health service potentially misses a hot spot.

Please say you forgot white text.
 

Pexbo

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There is on simple solution to all of this lockdown palava. Do not get tested......Ever.
If you are ill with a couple of the symptoms, do the whole isolation thing, but dont be getting a test, adding to the numbers will only mean we never get out of this pickle we are in. People aren't dying like they was 4 or 5 months ago and i imagine there are more deaths per day resulting from a RTA or even dog attacks.
I wont be getting tested for that reason alone.
This post has an author who is clearly a selfish prick.
 

Sweet Square

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There is on simple solution to all of this lockdown palava. Do not get tested......Ever.
If you are ill with a couple of the symptoms, do the whole isolation thing, but dont be getting a test, adding to the numbers will only mean we never get out of this pickle we are in. People aren't dying like they was 4 or 5 months ago and i imagine there are more deaths per day resulting from a RTA or even dog attacks.
I wont be getting tested for that reason alone.
God level of posting right here.
 

Ananke

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When you look at the stats back in April, which were around 7,000 cases a day, with a peak of 1,100 deaths a day and compare them to the stats today, 19,000 cases a day to 100-130ish deaths a day in my eyes it's a completely different situation than what we were in. The healthier population are contracting it and not dying. Surely that's a good thing in terms of herd immunity?

Obviously there is the factor of an overworked NHS...:(
 

Snowjoe

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When you look at the stats back in April, which were around 7,000 cases a day, with a peak of 1,100 deaths a day and compare them to the stats today, 19,000 cases a day to 100-130ish deaths a day in my eyes it's a completely different situation than what we were in. The healthier population are contracting it and not dying. Surely that's a good thing in terms of herd immunity?

Obviously there is the factor of an overworked NHS...:(
a big part of it was at the peak we weren’t testing widespread like we are now, 7000 cases a day then were drastically higher than that because we weren’t testing people who were dealing with it at home
 

SiRed

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This post has an author who is clearly a selfish prick.
Needlessly personal!!!

Selfish??? maybe, maybe not. I am struggling, as are many others with the draconian restrictions being put in place. For what???? Is me staying indoors really saving lives? The only reason the restrictions are in place is because of the positive results and not the number of deaths.... So don't get tested is what i am arguing. If i have symptoms, i have to isolate wether the results are positive or negative. No point at all in getting tested if thats the case, if its positive you just go down as yet another stat that Boris can use to further depress the people of his country.
Likewise the track and trace....... pointless. If i scan in somewhere and then get an instruction saying i must isolate as someone in the same place has tested positive - i then have to have 2 weeks off work without pay, due to a slim slim chance i might have caught it. Where as if i dont have the app to scan in, i cant be told to isolate and needn't worry about paying the mortgage!

So yeah, it might be selfish, but this is the world we live in i'm afraid and just because you might disagree, doesn't give you the right to fire words like prick at me. Just disagree with maturity.

If we all shared your opinion, then there would be no point in internet forums!
 

Judas

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With each post you somehow manage to come across even more self absorbed. I'm sad there are people like you in this country to be honest, I wish there weren't as many as there seems to be.
 

Pexbo

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Needlessly personal!!!

Selfish??? maybe, maybe not. I am struggling, as are many others with the draconian restrictions being put in place. For what???? Is me staying indoors really saving lives? The only reason the restrictions are in place is because of the positive results and not the number of deaths.... So don't get tested is what i am arguing. If i have symptoms, i have to isolate wether the results are positive or negative. No point at all in getting tested if thats the case, if its positive you just go down as yet another stat that Boris can use to further depress the people of his country.
Likewise the track and trace....... pointless. If i scan in somewhere and then get an instruction saying i must isolate as someone in the same place has tested positive - i then have to have 2 weeks off work without pay, due to a slim slim chance i might have caught it. Where as if i dont have the app to scan in, i cant be told to isolate and needn't worry about paying the mortgage!

So yeah, it might be selfish, but this is the world we live in i'm afraid and just because you might disagree, doesn't give you the right to fire words like prick at me. Just disagree with maturity.

If we all shared your opinion, then there would be no point in internet forums!
You’ve admitted you’re being selfish so we appear to share the same opinion.
 

Wibble

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Get vaccinated or kill Penna you selfish bastards
There is on simple solution to all of this lockdown palava. Do not get tested......Ever.
If you are ill with a couple of the symptoms, do the whole isolation thing, but dont be getting a test, adding to the numbers will only mean we never get out of this pickle we are in. People aren't dying like they was 4 or 5 months ago and i imagine there are more deaths per day resulting from a RTA or even dog attacks.
I wont be getting tested for that reason alone.
What?

We need more and better testing.

If you put a towel over your head we can still see you.

And I don't know how many dog attack fatalities there are worldwide but there were only 48 in the US in 2019 so I'm going to guess it is somewhat less than the 1.1 million we know have died of SARS-CoV-2 infection in 9/10 months.

And have car fatalities stopped? Otherwise these are additional and not alternatives and thus irrelevant.
 
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SiRed

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You’ve admitted you’re being selfish so we appear to share the same opinion.
I said it might be selfish and so what. Im getting fed up of everything now
What?

We need more and better testing.

If you put a towel over your head we can still see you.

And I don't know how many dog attack fatalities there are worldwide but there were only 48 in the US in 2019 so I'm going to guess it is somewhat less than the 1.1 million we know have died of SARS-CoV-19 infection 9/10 months.

And have car fatalities stopped? Otherwise these are additional and not alternatives and thus irrelevant.
Ok, good stats. What is a comparable daily death toll then? I imagine something like lung cancer maybe? but smoking is still legal. In the UK we seem to getting about 50 covid deaths a day, which personally i don't think warrants locking everyone away for. Yes its sad that people are dying and yes i would be gutted if it wiped out a member of my family but these enforcement's have potential to do more harm than good surely.
 

Snowjoe

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I said it might be selfish and so what. Im getting fed up of everything now

Ok, good stats. What is a comparable daily death toll then? I imagine something like lung cancer maybe? but smoking is still legal. In the UK we seem to getting about 50 covid deaths a day, which personally i don't think warrants locking everyone away for. Yes its sad that people are dying and yes i would be gutted if it wiped out a member of my family but these enforcement's have potential to do more harm than good surely.
We’ve not banned smoking but we have banned it in places where you smoking has the potential to harm others, which is essentially what these restrictions are aiming for
 

Dave_MUFC

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When you look at the stats back in April, which were around 7,000 cases a day, with a peak of 1,100 deaths a day and compare them to the stats today, 19,000 cases a day to 100-130ish deaths a day in my eyes it's a completely different situation than what we were in. The healthier population are contracting it and not dying. Surely that's a good thing in terms of herd immunity?

Obviously there is the factor of an overworked NHS...:(
There's also the factor of taking a complete gamble with your fitness and any long-term issues that have a possibility of occurring, like cancers or pneumonia becoming a lot more prevalent once you reach old age.

Between me and my girlfriend alone, she has heard of a friends friend who has died in his 30's, with no clear underlying condition, and I know of someone who now has permanent fibrosis of the lungs, after contracting Covid 5 months ago, then having constant recurring symptoms over that period like high temperature, breathlessness etc. until finally last week he woke up one night unable to breathe, had to be rushed to hospital and now has to take 3 types of medication for the foreseeable future, and can't really walk anywhere without getting out of breath. Also seemed perfectly healthy and fine before this happened.

I don't think it can just be as black and white as either dying or becoming fine and gaining immunity to it. Now months on, there's more stories about immunity going away after a certain period etc. So is herd immunity even viable?

And I know people keep going on about chances of complications being low etc. but do you really want to take the gamble on potentially affecting your health for the rest of your life?
 

jackal&hyde

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With each post you somehow manage to come across even more self absorbed. I'm sad there are people like you in this country to be honest, I wish there weren't as many as there seems to be.
They are all over the World and sometimes it takes you by surprise. People that you thought you knew, when their favorite toys are taken away and some responsibility and empathy is required they turn in to mini psychos that would rather have more people die then them wearing a mask or giving up some pleasures for a while. Many people really are just shite and this COVID situation is doing a good job flashing them out.
 

Pexbo

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I said it might be selfish and so what. Im getting fed up of everything now

Ok, good stats. What is a comparable daily death toll then? I imagine something like lung cancer maybe? but smoking is still legal. In the UK we seem to getting about 50 covid deaths a day, which personally i don't think warrants locking everyone away for. Yes its sad that people are dying and yes i would be gutted if it wiped out a member of my family but these enforcement's have potential to do more harm than good surely.
On April 8th we had 1,445 deaths. If we do what you suggest, we will likely eclipse that in a few weeks time.

You don’t seem to have any understanding of the implications of the virus or exponential growth.
 

Wibble

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Get vaccinated or kill Penna you selfish bastards
I said it might be selfish and so what. Im getting fed up of everything now

Ok, good stats. What is a comparable daily death toll then? I imagine something like lung cancer maybe? but smoking is still legal. In the UK we seem to getting about 50 covid deaths a day, which personally i don't think warrants locking everyone away for. Yes its sad that people are dying and yes i would be gutted if it wiped out a member of my family but these enforcement's have potential to do more harm than good surely.
More people have already died of SARS-CoV-2 in the first 9.5 months of the year than do annually from lung cancer. Lung cancer deaths have also continued at the same pace. You can't opt for one or the other.

Ban smoking tomorrow and it will take years or even decades to hugely reduce lung cancer deaths. COVID restrictions save life and huge health damage NOW. Plus if you let things get further out of hand medical facilities will get overwhelmed and the death rate will probably skyrocket. Liverpool hospitals are already at 90% of capacity.

You are not thinking rationally at all about this.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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It will be
Needlessly personal!!!

Selfish??? maybe, maybe not. I am struggling, as are many others with the draconian restrictions being put in place. For what???? Is me staying indoors really saving lives? The only reason the restrictions are in place is because of the positive results and not the number of deaths.... So don't get tested is what i am arguing. If i have symptoms, i have to isolate wether the results are positive or negative. No point at all in getting tested if thats the case, if its positive you just go down as yet another stat that Boris can use to further depress the people of his country.
Likewise the track and trace....... pointless. If i scan in somewhere and then get an instruction saying i must isolate as someone in the same place has tested positive - i then have to have 2 weeks off work without pay, due to a slim slim chance i might have caught it. Where as if i dont have the app to scan in, i cant be told to isolate and needn't worry about paying the mortgage!

So yeah, it might be selfish, but this is the world we live in i'm afraid and just because you might disagree, doesn't give you the right to fire words like prick at me. Just disagree with maturity.

If we all shared your opinion, then there would be no point in internet forums!
You have no idea if you think the current measures are draconian!
 

Brwned

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What?

We need more and better testing.

If you put a towel over your head we can still see you.

And I don't know how many dog attack fatalities there are worldwide but there were only 48 in the US in 2019 so I'm going to guess it is somewhat less than the 1.1 million we know have died of SARS-CoV-19 infection 9/10 months.

And have car fatalities stopped? Otherwise these are additional and not alternatives and thus irrelevant.
There have been a lot fewer car fatalities for obvious reasons.
Deaths and serious injuries on the UK’s roads have plummeted by 70 per cent since lockdown, the Transport Secretary Grant Shapps announced on Wednesday while being questioned by members of the transport select committee.
Fewer fatalites from all sorts of things, drunken accidents, flu, other respiratory and heart diseases etc. In an average month, the top 9 leading causes of death would lead to ~ 350 deaths per 100k, while if you take June as a relatively normal month this year, they've led to ~250 or a 29% decline.

Part of that is because the measures taken to reduce transmission for covid have also reduced transmission of other viruses, with can be the causes of death themselves or exacerbate them. Part of it is because the restrictions on movement and other activities lead to fewer dangerous situations. Part of that is because people with these pre-existing conditions have contracted covid on top and that has been attributed as the cause of death. And part of it is presumably due to the change in medical care influencing the diagnoses of chronic conditions causing death, with fewer people going into hospital at earlier stages.

But if you stick with car accidents as the example, more people died in 2 days in April from covid than they did in a typical year in the UK from the road. And yes while deaths are not at that level now, more people have died from Covid since the beginning of August than they do from car accidents in a typical year. So not only is he ignoring the reality that the change in behaviour that has come about because of covid is saving more lives on the road, he's also dramatically underestimated how deadly this virus is in comparison to something more "normal" like road deaths.
In a normal year, 1,800 people would die from road traffic collisions, around 150 a month. Shapps added that deaths and serious injuries had remained low even as car traffic has increased to around 70 per cent of the pre-lockdown level, although it was still “early days”. Road traffic deaths were as high as 7,985 in 1966. They have declined since then overall, but the number has remained steady since 2010.
And that's ignoring the fact that the number of people that die on the roads is a travesty in the first place, not a barometer we should consider acceptable.
 
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