SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[africanspur]

My body my choice! Right?!

Or is that not how it works with the far left when it doesn't suit their agenda? Love how everything was a choice before but now its essentially going to be forced on you.

That has never been how our species or our society works and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dreamland.

Just because it is my body, I do not have 'the choice' to go to the cinema totally naked. I do not have 'the choice' to take a shit in the dairy aisle at Tesco. I do not have 'the choice' to attend a golf club and set up a game of rugby with 29 mates. I do not have 'the choice' (in most societies anyway) to walk around the street carrying a gun or a sword.

This libertarian fantasy doesn't exist and it pretty much never has in human history. We are social animals and we live in societies with explicit and implicit expectations of how we acceptably behave in a group setting.

It is totally your right to turn down the vaccine if you so choose, just as it is your right to sit at home naked, take a shit on your kitchen floor or walk around in your bedroom with your samurai sword. But when your decisions potentially start to affect others, then 'your choices' unfortunately start to become a bit more limited and what you can do in our constructed societies may also become rather more limited.

Is that fair? Perhaps not. This isn't really a fair time though.

 

[Wibble]

Agreed. No amount of funding can replace long term trials though.

The trials didn't compromise safety in any way.

My body my choice! Right?!

Or is that not how it works with the far left when it doesn't suit their agenda? Love how everything was a choice before but now its essentially going to be forced on you.

You need to be vaccinated to go to school in many countries. US Universities also usually demand it. Yoy can't travel to some countries without being vaccinated against various things. Airlines and most countries will demand it.

So you have a choice to not vaccinate and have your opportunities restricted accordingly.

Funny when this pandemic started all the doom and gloomers told me the vaccine will take several years to come out, even everybody's God Mr. Fauci said so himself. Now it comes out within a year and no one can question it... if you question it you are a horrible person, selfish, trump supporter, etc.

For one Dr Peter Doherty stated that he thought we could have a vaccine by September and he wasn't far off.

Not an anti-vaccer either but I'll avoid taking this thing if I can until conclusive long-term data can come out of this. I really don't give a shit about a 6 month trial.

These vaccines are just as safe as every other vaccine that you have ever taken without question. They have had exactly the same safety trials. The large number of infections, streamlining of the admin process and accepting the financial risks from producing millions of doses in the hope they wouldn't have to be binned is why it was quick. Safety was in no way compromised.

Normal long term post approval monitoring find very very rare side effects that you don't find in phase 3 trials because they are so rare. In this case very very rare side effects, if any, are orders of magnitude better than not vaccinating.

 

[Wibble]

That has never been how our species or our society works and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dreamland.

Just because it is my body, I do not have 'the choice' to go to the cinema totally naked. I do not have 'the choice' to take a shit in the dairy aisle at Tesco. I do not have 'the choice' to attend a golf club and set up a game of rugby with 29 mates. I do not have 'the choice' (in most societies anyway) to walk around the street carrying a gun or a sword.

This libertarian fantasy doesn't exist and it pretty much never has in human history. We are social animals and we live in societies with explicit and implicit expectations of how we acceptably behave in a group setting.

It is totally your right to turn down the vaccine if you so choose, just as it is your right to sit at home naked, take a shit on your kitchen floor or walk around in your bedroom with your samurai sword. But when your decisions potentially start to affect others, then 'your choices' unfortunately start to become a bit more limited and what you can do in our constructed societies may also become rather more limited.

Is that fair? Perhaps not. This isn't really a fair time though.

Totally agreed.

We accept laws and taxes as the price of being part of a society and vaccination is the same.

 

[Suv666]

Or is that not how it works with the far left when it doesn't suit their agenda? Love how everything was a choice before but now its essentially going to be forced on you.

I remember Marx saying it in Das Kapital that vaccines should be mandatory.


What a fecking idiot. Apparently making a vaccine mandatory is far left agenda now. Nothing to do with a pandemic and medicine, its actually the communists behind the vaccine.

Conservatives have genuinely lost their mind.

 

[gormless]

Brazilian variant is in the U.K.

Inevitable really, but still not great

 

[BluesJr]

Brazilian variant is in the U.K.

Inevitable really, but still not great

Didn’t have to be inevitable tbh.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Brazilian variant is in the U.K.

Inevitable really, but still not great

Also not great is the minor shambles in identifying one of the three people who tested positive with this variant.

However, a third, currently unlinked individual is still being sought whose identity is unknown because they did not complete the registration card that came with their Covid-19 testing kit.

Officials said their test was processed on 14 February, so it is likely they took it a day or two earlier. The person is unlikely to have taken their test at one of the regional test sites, where staff can check if contact details have been provided, but it could have been a home test or from local surge testing.

I mean, come on. Seriously?!

 

[prateik]

Are the Brazilian and SA variants less transmissible than the UK one?
I read they are more resistant to the vaccine, but if they arent spreading as fast, the UK one will surely remain the dominant strain... right?

 

[gormless]

Are the Brazilian and SA variants less transmissible than the UK one?
I read they are more resistant to the vaccine, but if they arent spreading as fast, the UK one will surely remain the dominant strain... right?

From my understand the issue with them is that prior immunity from previous infection means little in terms of immunity from SA and Brazil strain

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Are the Brazilian and SA variants less transmissible than the UK one?
I read they are more resistant to the vaccine, but if they arent spreading as fast, the UK one will surely remain the dominant strain... right?

I’m not sure anyone is 100% certain about how the transmissibility compares but the UK variant won’t remain the dominant strain in countries where the majority of the population are vaccinated, that’s for sure.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Yet again, UK government too late to react and not acting strongly enough to prevent these issues.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...azilian-covid-variant-being-sought-in-england

 

[starman]

Are the Brazilian and SA variants less transmissible than the UK one?
I read they are more resistant to the vaccine, but if they arent spreading as fast, the UK one will surely remain the dominant strain... right?

Rule Britannia?

 

[Wibble]

As far as I'm concerned the newly vaccinated old can return the favour and stay inside for those who are still waiting for their turn. Vaccine passports can come in only once everybody has had the opportunity to get the vaccine.

How would vaccinated people staying inside benefit anyone?

And the longer you wait to introduce a vaccine passport or similar the larger the admin nightmare when you do.

 

[Wibble]

I think there are a lot of problems with vaccine passports

It discriminates on various fronts, for example-

Against people of ethnic minority, who are less likely to take up the vaccine for cultural and historical reasons
Against people with health conditions which makes it difficult to take the vaccine
Against younger people on the basis of age
Against people who may choose not to take the vaccine for a variety of reasons including distrust of government, phobia of injections, logistical difficulties, etc

Vaccine records are an essential health tool and a vaccine passport is no different.

The reason we need to get to HIT (if we can) and use vaccine passports (which further encourage uptake) is to protect people with underlying health conditions who can't take it. If there is a genuine reason they can't take it (including mental health issues) then a vaccine passport will note that. It might not help if you want to travel overseas but if the vaccine passport is used domestically it will. For pretty much all the other cases they just need to suck it up for the greater good. Pay your taxes, abide by laws and get vaccinated. You don't have to enjoy it but you do need to do it as part of the social contract.

 

[Wibble]

I just saw that the UK has immunised 20 million people (presumably just the first shot) which is great news. Rather disturbingly the article said only about 75% of the 65+ years demographic have had a vaccination. Do we know what proportion of that 25% who refused the vaccine? Or is it just that they have started the next age group down before finishing the 65+ group?

 

[Wibble]

Depressingly Australia is keeping vaccine storage sites secret as there is a fear that they will be sabotaged by anti-vax lunatics. Hopefully ASIO will treat them like any other dangerous terrorist group (the small violent loon fringe, not the Byron Bay style hippy feckwits who think aromatherapy does a better job) and monitor them.

 

[Dargonk]

Depressingly Australia is keeping vaccine storage sites secret as there is a fear that they will be sabotaged by anti-vax lunatics. Hopefully ASIO will treat them like any other dangerous terrorist group (the small violent loon fringe, not the Byron Bay style hippy feckwits who think aromatherapy does a better job) and monitor them.

Depressing really. Sure I can understand if people don't want to take the thing themselves, but the idea that people want to destroy them so others can't take them is baffling.

 

[jojojo]

I just saw that the UK has immunised 20 million people (presumably just the first shot) which is great news. Rather disturbingly the article said only about 75% of the 65+ years demographic have had a vaccination. Do we know what proportion of that 25% who refused the vaccine? Or is it just that they have started the next age group down before finishing the 65+ group?

Do you have a link to the article? In general the headline figure (the 20m +) is referring to first doses and is up to date, but the demographic data on who's had it it is mostly lagging by a couple of weeks.

Takeup in the 70+ group looks like it's going to go over 90%. The difficult issue for the UK is that it's unbalanced, across ethnicities and level of wealth/deprivation.

Some of that is probably a timing thing, the appointment system relies on text messages, phone calls, links sent by post etc and favours people willing/able to book online, and travel to a local vaccine centre. Some areas are now trying to target the missed groups/individuals. At any rate I wouldn't necessarily equate "not had it" with "rejected it", though there is definitely more hesitation/suspicion in some groups than others.

 

[lynchie]

I just saw that the UK has immunised 20 million people (presumably just the first shot) which is great news. Rather disturbingly the article said only about 75% of the 65+ years demographic have had a vaccination. Do we know what proportion of that 25% who refused the vaccine? Or is it just that they have started the next age group down before finishing the 65+ group?

That 75% figure is based on the last weekly numbers released on 25th February. There's been around another 1.5m first doses since then, and NHS England are now saying that more than 90% of over-65s have had a vaccination. https://www.england.nhs.uk/2021/03/nhs-invites-people-aged-60-plus-to-book-life-saving-covid-jab/

 

[Dave_MUFC]

That has never been how our species or our society works and anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a dreamland.

Just because it is my body, I do not have 'the choice' to go to the cinema totally naked. I do not have 'the choice' to take a shit in the dairy aisle at Tesco. I do not have 'the choice' to attend a golf club and set up a game of rugby with 29 mates. I do not have 'the choice' (in most societies anyway) to walk around the street carrying a gun or a sword.

This libertarian fantasy doesn't exist and it pretty much never has in human history. We are social animals and we live in societies with explicit and implicit expectations of how we acceptably behave in a group setting.

It is totally your right to turn down the vaccine if you so choose, just as it is your right to sit at home naked, take a shit on your kitchen floor or walk around in your bedroom with your samurai sword. But when your decisions potentially start to affect others, then 'your choices' unfortunately start to become a bit more limited and what you can do in our constructed societies may also become rather more limited.

Is that fair? Perhaps not. This isn't really a fair time though.

Well said.

 

[McUnited]

The way skeptics are treated on social media and on sites like these ones, one might be forgiven for thinking that some people would be all for the vaccination of certain thoughts.

 

[11101]

How would vaccinated people staying inside benefit anyone?

And the longer you wait to introduce a vaccine passport or similar the larger the admin nightmare when you do.

Vaccinated people can still spread it, as far as we currently know.

 

[tombombadil]

Wow. Just wow. One year later, and things like this are still happening.

The mystery case
However, further investigation is underway regarding a separate, third case of the variant identified in England, with health officials appealing to anyone who did not receive a result from a Covid test carried out on Feb. 12 or 13 to come forward.
“The individual did not complete their test registration card so follow-up details are not available,” the government noted.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/01/uk-search-mystery-person-infected-with-brazil-covid-variant.html

 

[tombombadil]

I defy anyone to read this post and not immediately want vaccine passports more than they did before...

After reading that post, I not only demand vaccine passports, i now also want anti vaxxers to be jailed.

 

[Vidyoyo]

After reading that post, I not only demand vaccine passports, i now also want anti vaxxers to be jailed.

The sound they'd make rattling their cages would serve as a warning to the electronic old men.

 

[jojojo]

The way skeptics are treated on social media and on sites like these ones, one might be forgiven for thinking that some people would be all for the vaccination of certain thoughts.

Nothing wrong with scepticism, but some facts wouldn't go amiss - do you have any?

What we know covid has done in the UK is kill roughly roughly 1:500 of the population, weaken the economy, cause serious financial hardship to some people, and wreck most people's social and family lives. What we suspect is that it has also indirectly damaged the health (mental and physical) of millions and done massive harm to children's education - though we can't yet put numbers on those effects. What we also know is that a significant number of those infected with covid (even with mild symptoms) will go on to have further health problems, often for months (and who knows how far beyond).

We also know that for the majority of the population the quickest, simplest and safest way out of this is not to continue with more of the same - the deaths, lockdowns, illness cycle - it's to take an effective vaccine. I don't know if some jobs/venues/activities will start to ask for vaccination (or test) status - but unless your scepticism amounts to more than "I don't like the sound of it" then it's hard to suggest anything other than, "maybe you will need to stay in lockdown until the threat gets so low that other people feel safe to let you in."

 

[Jippy]

I just saw that the UK has immunised 20 million people (presumably just the first shot) which is great news. Rather disturbingly the article said only about 75% of the 65+ years demographic have had a vaccination. Do we know what proportion of that 25% who refused the vaccine? Or is it just that they have started the next age group down before finishing the 65+ group?

They wasted one on this prick, sadly.

 

[acnumber9]

The Northern Ireland assembly has had to delay their plan for coming out of lockdown. Who would’ve though those useless cnuts wouldn’t be able to do it on time? They’ve only had two months.

 

[McUnited]

They wasted one on this prick, sadly.

The prick you refer to is, presumably, Blair.

 

[golden_blunder]

The prick you refer to is, presumably, Blair.

They both are.

yet on this occasion Blair is doing the right thing by his country

 

[Jippy]

The prick you refer to is, presumably, Blair.

feck off Lozza.

 

[Solius]

My body my choice! Right?!

Or is that not how it works with the far left when it doesn't suit their agenda? Love how everything was a choice before but now its essentially going to be forced on you.

Someone getting an abortion doesn't potentially kill thousands of others. Someone not getting a vaccine could do that.

 

[horsechoker]

They wasted one on this prick, sadly.

"Let me pretend I'm not happy about this jab so that I can earn a few bob off gullible DM readers"

 

[Pexbo]

Someone getting an abortion doesn't potentially kill thousands of others. Someone not getting a vaccine could do that.

What if you aborted a child that would have grown up to be the scientist that cured cancer?

 

[Pexbo]

They wasted one on this prick, sadly.

There must be a German word for the type of unhappiness that can only be derived from living in the shadow of a brilliant sibling.

I wonder if the relationship between Saul Goodman and Chuck McGill was based on those two.

 

[Solius]

What if you aborted a child that would have grown up to be the scientist that cured cancer?

You abort a child that would've become a brutal dictator to offset it.

 

[golden_blunder]

From RTE

The latest report on Covid-19 cases from the Health Protection Surveillance Centre shows that there were 1,403 cases in children aged 12 years and younger, in the two weeks to 27 February.

Of these, 28 were admitted to hospital, but none were in intensive care units.

There were 589 cases among those aged 0-4 years, with 814 cases in those aged 5-12, while there were 710 cases in the 13-18 age group.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0301/1199998-covid19-ireland/

Glad we chose not to send our 2 back in today, based on the numbers locally.

@Pogue Mahone @acnumber9

 

[Pogue Mahone]

From RTE



https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0301/1199998-covid19-ireland/

Glad we chose not to send our 2 back in today, based on the numbers locally.

@Pogue Mahone @acnumber9

What was the average cases per day over that two week period? About 1000/day? So that’s 1 in 10 cases in someone under 12. Considering how transmissible this new strain is within households I wouldn’t be too concerned about those numbers.

We also don’t know how many (if any) of those kids passed the virus on to an adult. It’s been assumed to be a relatively rare event, which is one of the main reasons why younger kids are thought to play a fairly minor role in spreading the virus.

 

[acnumber9]

What was the average cases per day over that two week period? About 1000/day? So that’s 1 in 10 cases in someone under 12. Considering how transmissible this new strain is within households I wouldn’t be too concerned about those numbers.

We also don’t know how many (if any) of those kids passed the virus on to an adult. It’s been assumed to be a relatively rare event, which is one of the main reasons why younger kids are thought to play a fairly minor role in spreading the virus.

It would be a concern if they’re still less likely to show symptoms because that would suggest cases being missed more often though would it not?

I’m still not sure what they base that assumption on. Any reports I’ve seen are very scarce on why they believe that. It will be interesting to see it’s impact over the next month or so. Fingers crossed you’re right, we can’t really afford to get it wrong again.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It would be a concern if they’re still less likely to show symptoms because that would suggest cases being missed more often though would it not?

I’m still not sure what they base that assumption on. Any reports I’ve seen are very scarce on why they believe that. It will be interesting to see it’s impact over the next month or so. Fingers crossed you’re right, we can’t really afford to get it wrong again.

Yeah, we’ve an interesting experiment just started in Ireland. Two weeks with only the youngest kids back in school (<8) and no other changes to lockdown measures. After that we get two weeks with the 8-12’s back. Only after these four weeks will adults (other than teachers) be able to do anything different. It will be the first time we’ve ever seen the impact of primary schools on caseload in isolation. I’ll have some humble pie on stand bye, just in case!