They certainly don't in our area - we only have one part-time doctor and one pharmacist here. Right at the beginning the doctor vaccinated all the residents of our care home (his surgery is part of the same building), but other than that, no.Don't the local doctors and pharmacists do it in your region?
That's the approach everywhere is taking. When one dose is potentially only 30% effective (AZ) against the Delta variant, it's probably the right approach.It depends on context though? The thinking here in Singapore is to vaccinate as many people with double doses as possible, as completing two doses significantly increases protection. Rather than taking longer to help every vaccinated person achieve above 95% protection, it is more effective to vaccinate more people at 90% level of protection?
That's exactly it. The issue everybody always had was that the government sought to go in a direction and then worry about finding evidence to back it up later. That's the way they've handled the whole pandemic, the early vaccination campaign was the first time they were successful with it. Now there is a risk it could backfire spectacularly.That crossed my mind as I was reading it. To be fair, it's very likely that the ideal interval is different from what the manufacturers have suggested. They've tested on a program and we should really follow the results from that, but it doesn't mean that a different interval doesn't have a higher immune response.
The problem is that the UK government went away from the manufacturers guidelines before these studies were done rather than after.
They didn't, the JCVI made the recommendations. I'm sure if there wasn't a degree of confidence then they wouldn't have recommended it.The problem is that the UK government went away from the manufacturers guidelines before these studies were done rather than after.
I think it's pretty clear that the data wasn't there in January to make a scientific decision. It would have been an informed decision based on data from previous vaccines, but was against the manufacturers guidelines and not backed by data on the actual vaccine being administered because it was literally impossible to have that data at that stage. I'm sure they were confident that it wouldn't have any major repercussions, but the decision would have been guided by trying to get as many 1st jabs out as possible at the time.They didn't, the JCVI made the recommendations. I'm sure if there wasn't a degree of confidence then they wouldn't have recommended it.
Just the covid vaccine or all vaccines? It's worrying seeing so many people of our generation taking it for granted that they can't get mumps, measles, polio, tetanus etc, putting it down to their magic immune systems and denying the actual scientific means of this immunity to their kids. Total ignorance and ego at play.My brother has his wife are both sadly anti vaccine and they said vaccinating kids equates to child abuse when I saw them yesterday. Didn’t have the energy to argue so just said OK.
Yep, on Pfizer they guessed it would be ok, that everyone would get some protection from dose one (which they do) and that there would be no loss of eventual efficacy after dose two (which turned out to be true). The "might even be better/longer lasting" thing wasn't unreasonable based on other vaccines but it was untested at that stage.That crossed my mind as I was reading it. To be fair, it's very likely that the ideal interval is different from what the manufacturers have suggested. They've tested on a program and we should really follow the results from that, but it doesn't mean that a different interval doesn't have a higher immune response.
The problem is that the UK government went away from the manufacturers guidelines before these studies were done rather than after.
https://www.thelocal.it/20210722/latest-italy-makes-green-pass-mandatory-as-coronavirus-cases-rise/Italy's Covid-19 vaccine passport will soon be required in order to access more leisure and cultural venues, including indoor restaurants under a new decree signed on Thursday. The Italian government announced on Thursday evening that the use of the country’s certificazione verde or ‘green certificate’ health pass scheme will be extended from Friday August 6th.
People in Italy will soon need the pass to enter gyms, swimming pools, museums, cinemas, theatres, sports stadiums and other public venues, including indoor seating areas at bars and restaurants, Health Minister Roberto Speranza stated at a press conference.
The government had also discussed making the green pass mandatory for domestic flights and long-distance trains, but this was not included in the decree, and will be discussed at a later date according to Italian media reports.
Nightclubs are to remain closed completely, contrary to reopening plans suggested by government ministers in recent weeks.
Business owners are expected to enforce the rules, with the government stating that “a fine of between 400 and 1000 euros can be applied to both the operator and the customer” if rules are broken. Repeated failure to enforce the rules could result in businesses being shut down for up to ten days.
Of course, that was what they said at the time, they made no secret about it. I don't see the reason for the hindsight now? The JCVI took a fairly educated risk on extending the vaccines doses so they could stem the death rate during the second wave based on a limited inbound supply. It turned out to be the right decision in terms of reducing the rate, and hospitalisation to a large extent. Them adjusting to the sweet spot now shouldn't be perceived as a negative, as this approach saved thousands of lives in the process. I'm sure the alternative by following the manufacturers guidelines would have seen many more deaths.I think it's pretty clear that the data wasn't there in January to make a scientific decision. It would have been an informed decision based on data from previous vaccines, but was against the manufacturers guidelines and not backed by data on the actual vaccine being administered because it was literally impossible to have that data at that stage. I'm sure they were confident that it wouldn't have any major repercussions, but the decision would have been guided by trying to get as many 1st jabs out as possible at the time.
The studies on intervals will probably start flowing in now as the data is available, but I think the relevance will move to whether the original vaccine interval has any effect on booster jabs now. If a longer initial interval provides longer term protection (or not) it may guide governments on that.
Is this a similar story to the same Bournemouth beach that was due to bring waves of covid last year? There's enough pictures taken with zoom lenses that can make some pictures perfect for comment.Anyone see the pic from Bournemouth beach on Saturday?
All vaccines. Their argument for not getting this one is that we don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine. Yet when pressed that we do know the long term effects of MMR and other vaccines, they still won’t have those and they turn the argument into something else (they have aluminium in them which is poisoning children, children have too many vaccines, natural immunity is better etc.).Just the covid vaccine or all vaccines? It's worrying seeing so many people of our generation taking it for granted that they can't get mumps, measles, polio, tetanus etc, putting it down to their magic immune systems and denying the actual scientific means of this immunity to their kids. Total ignorance and ego at play.
No there wasn’t a COVID story about it, just more that the heatwave brought out loads of people and it mentioned that particular beach was “crammed”. I just thought myself in the current circumstances I’d turn and go do something elseIs this a similar story to the same Bournemouth beach that was due to bring waves of covid last year? There's enough pictures taken with zoom lenses that can make some pictures perfect for comment.
What part of the results do you question? There were three key conclusions: more antibodies, fewer t-cells, higher proportion of helper T-cells. That's entirely consistent with the data available before the vaccine was rolled out anywhere. Is there a way someone else could set up the study that wouldn't produce those results? Otherwise it sounds a bit churlish.I did find that amusing.
A UK study, funded by the UK government, finds the UK's approach to vaccination works best.
Yet the rest of the world continues to vaccinate as the manufacturers intended.
It's outdoors and a heat wave, as far as places go to visit it should be fine.No there wasn’t a COVID story about it, just more that the heatwave brought out loads of people and it mentioned that particular beach was “crammed”. I just thought myself in the current circumstances I’d turn and go do something else
Do they use deodorant in their house? Because they'll be 'poisoning their kids' everytime they spray their pits. Natural immunity is better, obviously, but we have vaccines to make up for our total lack of natural immunity to serious deseases.All vaccines. Their argument for not getting this one is that we don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine. Yet when pressed that we do know the long term effects of MMR and other vaccines, they still won’t have those and they turn the argument into something else (they have aluminium in them which is poisoning children, children have too many vaccines, natural immunity is better etc.).
Schools finished yesterday, so I'd expect to see some improvements in those numbers in the coming weeks.Slightly not-as-bad-as-expected new covid cases in the UK this week, around mid 30k today, possible plateauing but need larger time frame to compare
Possibly effect of virus still in incubation phase for many post-freedom day, PCR turnaround time longer, ignoring of symptoms, atypical symptoms, fewer kids getting regular LFTs since not in school but hopefully enough behaviourally responsible people in communities to assist the immunity in population to break up infection chains.
Sorry to hearSo, got pinged today and working back how long I need to isolate suggests its from Monday. But I barely left the house that day, 5 minute trip to local shop for a loaf of bread. I thought you needed to be near someone for a prolonged period for it to flag up?
Sometimes it's from the day before you think it was, as it's 10 full days of isolation. So if you were exposed on sunday evening for example, it'd be ten days from Monday. Did you go anywhere on Sunday?So, got pinged today and working back how long I need to isolate suggests its from Monday. But I barely left the house that day, 5 minute trip to local shop for a loaf of bread. I thought you needed to be near someone for a prolonged period for it to flag up?
You're thinking of anti-perspitants and deoderant/anti-perspitants. They clog your pores with aluminum so they can't sweat. Deodorants don't have that.Do they use deodorant in their house? Because they'll be 'poisoning their kids' everytime they spray their pits. Natural immunity is better, obviously, but we have vaccines to make up for our total lack of natural immunity to serious deseases.
I know I'm preaching to the converted here though, so I'm sorry you have to deal with this. What do your parents have to say to them about it? Presumably they got the both of you vaccinated as kids rather than bang on about trace metals being more harmful than rubella or diptheria.
The beaches lead headlines. But they’re not really a problem. It’s the public toilets nearby that may or may not be airtight and grotty that are the worry to be honest.No there wasn’t a COVID story about it, just more that the heatwave brought out loads of people and it mentioned that particular beach was “crammed”. I just thought myself in the current circumstances I’d turn and go do something else
To be fair, this time last year we only had vanilla Covid to contend with. It was before the Kent variant was discovered and many months before Delta, which is apparently more transmissible outdoors. Personally I used to avoid places with that many people years before Covid was a thing, I can't see how it could possibly be enjoyable out there!Is this a similar story to the same Bournemouth beach that was due to bring waves of covid last year? There's enough pictures taken with zoom lenses that can make some pictures perfect for comment.
Thanks. Definitely not 15 minutes, went to the shop and back that took 5 at most.Sorry to hear
Its within 2 metres with the phone of someone who has tested positive for Covid-19 for at least 15 minutes.
Certain workers don't have to self-isolate if exemption requested by employer, listed here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54239922
If that's the case it may work, as I visited parents over weekend and caught the train back Sunday evening. It does add to 11 days but that is only time I could have been pinged. Ah well, work from home anyway so not end of the world, but still frustrating.Sometimes it's from the day before you think it was, as it's 10 full days of isolation. So if you were exposed on sunday evening for example, it'd be ten days from Monday. Did you go anywhere on Sunday?
This is exactly what my wife worked it out to be - travelling on a train to her mother's for the first time since 2020. We know loads of people who have said just as you did originally - "I only popped into the shops for five minutes, so I'm ignoring it" - failing to understand the 10 full days thing, and then deciding to ignore the app.Thanks. Definitely not 15 minutes, went to the shop and back that took 5 at most.
If that's the case it may work, as I visited parents over weekend and caught the train back Sunday evening. It does add to 11 days but that is only time I could have been pinged. Ah well, work from home anyway so not end of the world, but still frustrating.
My sister went into an empty chemist and got pinged later that daySo, got pinged today and working back how long I need to isolate suggests its from Monday. But I barely left the house that day, 5 minute trip to local shop for a loaf of bread. I thought you needed to be near someone for a prolonged period for it to flag up?
Where has this been said?To be fair, this time last year we only had vanilla Covid to contend with. It was before the Kent variant was discovered and many months before Delta, which is apparently more transmissible outdoors. Personally I used to avoid places with that many people years before Covid was a thing, I can't see how it could possibly be enjoyable out there!
I’d suggest there might be a lot of people that don’t care enough to bother testing since Monday? It’ll be interesting to see where it goes from here. I wonder whether official cases will stay similar or dip, yet hospitalisations increase comparatively, due to the under reporting of cases.Slightly not-as-bad-as-expected new covid cases in the UK this week, around mid 30k today, possible plateauing but need larger time frame to compare
Possibly effect of virus still in incubation phase for many post-freedom day, PCR turnaround time longer, ignoring of symptoms, atypical symptoms, fewer kids getting regular LFTs since not in school but hopefully enough behaviourally responsible people in communities to assist the immunity in population to break up infection chains.
I think so too, a lot of people have stopped caring now. Lots haven't obviously, but it would explain what's happening.I’d suggest there might be a lot of people that don’t care enough to bother testing since Monday? It’ll be interesting to see where it goes from here. I wonder whether official cases will stay similar or dip, yet hospitalisations increase comparatively, due to the under reporting of cases.
The new Covid case numbers we are currently seeing are not a reflection of the relaxation of the Covid restrictions.I’d suggest there might be a lot of people that don’t care enough to bother testing since Monday? It’ll be interesting to see where it goes from here. I wonder whether official cases will stay similar or dip, yet hospitalisations increase comparatively, due to the under reporting of cases.
The train does make most sense given how busy it was, an hour long and I was stood for most of it so it feels like that's where it will have happened. Shops, the day fits bit no way was I near anyone for long enough.This is exactly what my wife worked it out to be - travelling on a train to her mother's for the first time since 2020. We know loads of people who have said just as you did originally - "I only popped into the shops for five minutes, so I'm ignoring it" - failing to understand the 10 full days thing, and then deciding to ignore the app.
Hah! That's rough. Timing issue on the app maybe? My other thought was maybe a neighbour has been pinged and as I'm in a terraced house the phones just been too close to each other.My sister went into an empty chemist and got pinged later that day
I would have thought so, according to government dashboard testing numbers about the same - just over a million a day and 7 day average holding steady.I’d suggest there might be a lot of people that don’t care enough to bother testing since Monday? It’ll be interesting to see where it goes from here. I wonder whether official cases will stay similar or dip, yet hospitalisations increase comparatively, due to the under reporting of cases.
Reports from Australia of people catching Covid from "fleeting outdoor contact" or similar. @Wibble posted something a while back about someone catching it after only briefly meeting someone outside a cafe.Where has this been said?
So nothing scientific to say it’s more transmissbable outdoors? Just reports?Reports from Australia of people catching Covid from "fleeting outdoor contact" or similar. @Wibble posted something a while back about someone catching it after only briefly meeting someone outside a cafe.
Hopefully it's a rarity, or maybe a misinterpretation of a course of events in that particular case, otherwise we're in trouble.
There’s been a lot of studies around outdoor transmission, and I don’t think we need to worry about outdoor transmission. It’s hysteria at best and social anxiety at its worst. Like last year, where beaches were touted as COVID hotspots as there was a lot of people there in the summer and we didn’t see any spikes in cases, I don’t think that with a heavily vaccinated population were going to suddenly see anything revolutionary different than what we saw last year.In an open letter to the German government and state premiers, five leading members of the Association for Aerosol Research (GAeF) write that "The transmission of SARS-CoV-2 viruses takes place indoors almost without exception. Transmission outdoors is extremely rare and never leads to cluster infections as can be observed indoors."
The researchers observe that aerosols linger for much longer in confined spaces. "Wearing a mask in a pedestrian zone and then sitting at home having a coffee with friends is not our understanding of effectively preventing infections," the letter goes on to say.
The Robert-Koch-Institute (RKI), which also monitors and evaluates the provenance of infection hotspots, did not respond to a DW request for a comment on the letter. However, the RKI points out that the debate should not focus merely on the risk of infection outside in parks or pedestrian zones — but also the journey there, for example by bus or train. Nevertheless, in its coronavirus profile, the RKI also posits that "overall, transmissions outdoors rarely occur. If the minimum distance is maintained, the probability of transmission outdoors is very low due to the flow of air."
I hope you're right. I'm not sure there were any similar follow up stories like the one I remember, but the big fan zone type events over the Euros here seemed to result in thousands of cases, according to reports.So nothing scientific to say it’s more transmissbable outdoors? Just reports?
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-the-risk-of-catching-coronavirus-outdoors/a-56792936
There’s been a lot of studies around outdoor transmission, and I don’t think we need to worry about outdoor transmission. It’s hysteria at best and social anxiety at its worst. Like last year, where beaches were touted as COVID hotspots as there was a lot of people there in the summer and we didn’t see any spikes in cases, I don’t think that with a heavily vaccinated population were going to suddenly see anything revolutionary different than what we saw last year.
From what little I know in the UK, her details would stay on record until midnight, then a positive person could have used th chemist an hour later and sis would get pingedThe train does make most sense given how busy it was, an hour long and I was stood for most of it so it feels like that's where it will have happened. Shops, the day fits bit no way was I near anyone for long enough.
Hah! That's rough. Timing issue on the app maybe? My other thought was maybe a neighbour has been pinged and as I'm in a terraced house the phones just been too close to each other.
Not the end of the world anyway, just need to arrange home shopping which never bothered with before.
The Cafe infection was thought to be due to an infected person walking past someone sitting at an outside table but there is a chance that they stood near each other when queuing to pay.Reports from Australia of people catching Covid from "fleeting outdoor contact" or similar. @Wibble posted something a while back about someone catching it after only briefly meeting someone outside a cafe.
Hopefully it's a rarity, or maybe a misinterpretation of a course of events in that particular case, otherwise we're in trouble.
Which is hardly surprising considering Aus have prioritised vaccinating those age groups most at risk of hospitalisation. That’s exactly what you’d hope to see if the vaccine was doing it’s job.Transmission involving kids is seemingly higher than previous variants and hospitalisations seem to be more evenly spread amongst age groups.
Very different environments to normal walking around outdoors or even sitting on a beach though. Higher people density, more people hugging strangers, more beer, more crowded loos etc at halftime, more people mingling around between groups. Several hours of proximity and often quite enclosed spaces often with some kind of tent roof.I hope you're right. I'm not sure there were any similar follow up stories like the one I remember, but the big fan zone type events over the Euros here seemed to result in thousands of cases, according to reports.
Except we haven't anywhere near vaccinated all older people. The worry is that Delta affect younger people more than other variants. However, the sample size is small and as you say it could be a result of what vaccination we have done is concentrated in the over 50s and 60s. Fingers crossed it is the later.Which is hardly surprising considering Aus have prioritised vaccinating those age groups most at risk of hospitalisation. That’s exactly what you’d hope to see if the vaccine was doing it’s job.
