Compulsory vaccination would be a good start. Not holding people down and sticking needles in but significant carrot and stick encouragement. And not just for covid. All the normal childhood ones plus chickenpox, HPV and annual flu shots (and probably others).
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Nah forgot to update. Negative!
I feel fine now apart from a little tickley cough but that’s easing off each day.
Will schools in the UK be doing the same regular testing as they were toward the end of the last school year?
Good to hear
My lads school will do two tests a week
I tend to avoid reading corona news, since the vaccine roll out, but then I stumpled upon the Israel situation, and felt like shit again.
Yeah, better vaccines that stop spreading the infections are the only possible solution by the looks of it, but it's questionable how far away are we from those vaccines yet.
Good read, very informative. Thank you.
Good stuff, get well soon
Low-quality article. "Highly vaccinated country" doesn't stop the delta variant so the suggested solution is to be "100% vaccinated every several months"
Not “every several months”, no. The hope here is that a third dose gives long term protection. Time will tell. It wouldn’t be the first vaccine that needs more than two doses shortly after one another for optimal duration of protection.Low-quality article. "Highly vaccinated country" doesn't stop the delta variant so the suggested solution is to be "100% vaccinated every several months"
A 65% vaccinated country like Israel can't stop the spread of Delta. A country like Israel with only around 85% of its 70+ vaccinated can't reduce the case v hospitalisation rates enough to cope.Low-quality article. "Highly vaccinated country" doesn't stop the delta variant so the suggested solution is to be "100% vaccinated every several months"
Boosting the already vaxxed won't do much for the big picture, but it will help some of the ones unlucky enough to be collateral damage from getting hospitalised alongside the unvaxxed, having caught it in a high infection rate environment. It may make some of the others who get exposed to it in a high infection rate environment less likely to pass it on.
Beyond that they're dependant on additional people getting vaccinated or catching it and recovering. Given that they probably don't want another round of lockdowns.
Yesterday, just in time for our Independence Day (today), Uruguay reached 70% of the population with two doses. 10% of these have already received a third booster. A further 7% are on one dose but, for the most part, couldn't get the second due to infection. 17% of the population are minors, for which vaccine rollout hasn't been approved. That leaves 6% not vaccinated for whatever reason, largely aged 12-30.
It was only a few months ago that we spent several weeks topping the world deaths per million charts, hovering consistently around 18-20/million/day. Yesterday COVID patients were occupying 1.5% of our ICU capacity, down from 45% at one point (effectively 68% of our pre-pandemic capacity as we had increased beds by 50% in 2020*). Vaccines work, simple as.
We've had cases of delta but it hasn't gained any traction so far, daily cases/hospitalisations are consistent with the expected rates from having most of the population on the less effective Sinovac, but with acute cases getting flattened regardless.
I know first hand that there's a delta wave forming in Brazil that will likely hit them hard in September, so will keep you posted on how we cope with the trickle down in September-October.
For those interested in the finer detail, these are the platforms and sequencing:
Early March
-#1 Priority Groups: healthcare, Old-Age homes and Homeless people got Pfizer. Teachers and police got Sinovac.
From mid-March
-50-70: Primarily 2xSinovac -18-50: 2xSinovac (available in the necessary numbers) and now boosting with 1xPfizer. Covax Fund (multilateral WHO bollocks) AstraZeneca was not available in quantity, nor offered any certainty around deliveries. When some finally arrived in May they wound up getting used mainly with this age group and to accelerate across the dry border with Brazil (inc. vaccinating Brazilians in joint cities). There was the added bonus of using a platform different to the one in Brazil (Sinovac) so as to protect (or at least gage effectiveness) against variants, which largely creep in across that border.
-18-50: 2xSinovac and now getting booster with 1xPfizer.
From mid-April
-Over 70: 2xPfizer
From mid-May
-Pregnant or U-18: 2xPfizer
From late July
-Pfizer booster for Sinovac
-Government already has orders in place aligned with 1xPfizer booster for everyone next year.
*Deserves a separate post
It was only a few months ago that we spent several weeks topping the world deaths per million charts, hovering consistently around 18-20/million/day. Yesterday COVID patients were occupying 1.5% of our ICU capacity, down from 45% at one point (effectively 68% of our pre-pandemic capacity as we had increased beds by 50% in 2020*). Vaccines work, simple as.
We've had cases of delta but it hasn't gained any traction so far, daily cases/hospitalisations are consistent with the expected rates from having most of the population on the less effective Sinovac, but with acute cases getting flattened regardless.
I know first hand that there's a delta wave forming in Brazil that will likely hit them hard in September, so will keep you posted on how we cope with the trickle down in September-October.
For those interested in the finer detail, these are the platforms and sequencing:
Early March
-#1 Priority Groups: healthcare, Old-Age homes and Homeless people got Pfizer. Teachers and police got Sinovac.
From mid-March
-50-70: Primarily 2xSinovac -18-50: 2xSinovac (available in the necessary numbers) and now boosting with 1xPfizer. Covax Fund (multilateral WHO bollocks) AstraZeneca was not available in quantity, nor offered any certainty around deliveries. When some finally arrived in May they wound up getting used mainly with this age group and to accelerate across the dry border with Brazil (inc. vaccinating Brazilians in joint cities). There was the added bonus of using a platform different to the one in Brazil (Sinovac) so as to protect (or at least gage effectiveness) against variants, which largely creep in across that border.
-18-50: 2xSinovac and now getting booster with 1xPfizer.
From mid-April
-Over 70: 2xPfizer
From mid-May
-Pregnant or U-18: 2xPfizer
From late July
-Pfizer booster for Sinovac
-Government already has orders in place aligned with 1xPfizer booster for everyone next year.
*Deserves a separate post
I also posted this in the vaccines thread (link), but given that the article referenced also discusses the effect of COVID-19 on fertility and related things, I thought I might repeat it here, in case it's not been mentioned yet.
So, here's a quote from today's Nature Briefing:
So, here's a quote from today's Nature Briefing:
This abstract refers to the following article with further details and references: https://www.scientificamerican.com/...igns-of-harming-fertility-or-sexual-function/. Its title and subtitle are this:Nature Briefiing said:
In case anyone still woried about this aspect.
I know I'm flogging a dead banned horse, and posting a tweet from someone crowing about his own internet argument, but the cowardice from Glenn Greenwald in this argument is exactly what I found irritating about @LazyRed-Ninja (here, he never replied).
It's fine if you want to do a hard, no-feelings analysis of comparing Covid to other problems (here, Glenn chooses car crashes and analogises a lockdown with banning cars).
The problem is that these people never actually do that. There are allusions to massive problems, comparisons to other things, but no concrete proposal, no hard numbers. Aside from the direct dead from covid that they never quantify, they don't eve npretend to think about ICU overcapacity or things like that.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
It's fine if you want to do a hard, no-feelings analysis of comparing Covid to other problems (here, Glenn chooses car crashes and analogises a lockdown with banning cars).
The problem is that these people never actually do that. There are allusions to massive problems, comparisons to other things, but no concrete proposal, no hard numbers. Aside from the direct dead from covid that they never quantify, they don't eve npretend to think about ICU overcapacity or things like that.
My aunt just died of it. Double vaxed with Moderna, but 84 years old, so probably the vaccines did not really have much effect on her.
@Revan Sincere condolences
Sorry to hear that, condolences
Thats really sad news. All the best Mate.
Sorry to hear
Sorry for your loss mate. I had a relative die who was double vaxxed, also in their 80s. It's not common but these people are more than statistics.
I really don’t like the emotional blackmail & borderline bullying people who don’t want the vaccine are receiving. People who are double jabbed are still getting the virus, people who are double jabbed are still dying, and a small minority are suffering severe side effects to the vaccine, some even dying. If you’re one of those people trying to force the vaccine on people just think twice before you bully them, that’s all I’m saying. People have the right to a choice.
I agree that bullying isn't right mainly because it won't change anybody's mind if they're being called stupid and aggressively being told to do it. It is a choice, but that choice should also have repercussions in terms of the potential cost to society.
Somebody not taking the vaccines will have a higher cost on average due to more needing ICU and hospital treatment. There is also the higher risk of transmitting it to others which comes with both health and personal costs to those involved. It's free choice, but there should be repercussions based on the added risks as that's open and fair.
Delta Airlines adding $200 to cover additional insurance costs is a good policy which still gives choice.
Bullying is bad. We all agree on that.
Nothing you’ve written in bold is relevant to that though.
People have the right to make shit choices on a daily basis. Doesn't mean we cant take the piss out of them for it.
My mate likes Carling for example. IMO he should also be banned from pubs.
Your pal’s a monster!
Taking the piss & telling someone they are a selfish piece of shit are very different things.
I was discussing this the other day with some mates, all of us for vaccination.
One wanted it to be compulsory, like many other vaccines are. Another kept banging on about freedom and right to a choice, but then kept elaborating carrots and sticks.
Personally, I'm of the opinion the latter is a slippery slope. I'd much rather governments owned up and made it compulsory than device ever more stringent rules against those making the "wrong" choice.
Just fecking say it, "we won't give you the choice because it's wrong". Some will rant and rave and then get on with life. I can't think of anything more totalitarian than hunting people down at every turn, using the full weight of the government's coercive powers "of persuasion" to break down someone's spirit. What's the fecking point? Mouthing off about freedom and smelling of roses, all the while torturing the "free"?
Sorry to hear that
They are selfish pieces of shit.
Didn’t a BBC radio host die due to a serious reaction after taking the AZ one? I suppose her family are selfish pieces of shit for wishing she didn’t get it?
Just be nice & understand other’s point of view. It’s not hard.
Did she? Do you have the link and more info on that?
That is really sad for her family. An unfortunate and unforseen set of circumstances leading to tragedy.
Traub's point stands though as you don't have to take AZ in most Western countries nowadays.
I'm far too polite to call someone a selfish piece of shit and I don't think it even encourages them to get vaccinated.
That said, individual circumstances are exactly that - they're about individuals. I'm sure her family wishes that she hadn't been vaxxed, or she'd got Pfizer or it had happened two months later when doctors and vaccine recipients would have recognised the symptoms quicker, and she'd have had a better chance of treatment.
Speaking as an individual who had three family members die of covid if I thought they'd caught it from someone choosing not to get vaxxed or choosing not to get tested or choosing not to quarantine then I'd be really pissed off - I might even think some really bad thoughts about the person who rejected the vax and "selfish piece of shit" might be amongst the milder ones. As it happens, they died before vaccines were available and were infected before anyone understood how widespread it was. So no, I don't get that opportunity.
On average, there's no group of people that the vaccines are available to who aren't safer vaxxed than unvaxxed, and aren't safer for the people around them if they are vaxxed.
Agreed.
Quality control
1 is too many.
Not if it's saving thousands? Not rocket science fella.
So 1 covid death is too many. The vaccines are preventing thousands. What a nonsense throwaway comment.