SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Carolina Red

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Again, I've never questioned the fact that medical professional should be prioritized. But it shouldn't be that difficult to increase supply.

As for wearing it incorrectly being worse than not wearing one at all? Seriously?

What are the most obvious cases of masks being worn incorrectly?

1 The wrong side is facing in/out
2. It doesn't cover the nose

Not exactly difficult to educate people to do those 2 simple things right.
Yeah, well, you're wrong... but on the bright side, you've shown absolutely no ability to recognize that fact.
 

Cal?

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Right...

Emergency texts from the government alerting citizens of nearby cases of coronavirus infection. A government-mandated GPS-tracking app designed to monitor and punish people who break quarantine. Public government reports detailing the whereabouts of every single confirmed patient—down to which theater seat they sat in, which plastic surgery clinic they visited and even where they got their lingerie.

All these examples are part of a sweeping tracking infrastructure erected by the South Korean government to contain the largest coronavirus outbreak outside of mainland China.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/lessons-america-how-south-korean-authorities-used-law-fight-coronavirus
Seems Revan keeps posting what I wanted to say. The main thing being there wasn't a widescale lockdown at all
Well, the equivalent of Fauci in South Korea said so. There should be an interview in this thread posted a couple of days ago.

South Korea actually had less strict measures than the US and most of Europe. They didn't have a lockdown at all. Probably comparable to the measures of Sweden/Holland, but combined with everyone wearing masks, massive checks on fever, and large-scale testing combined with individual quarantines and contact-tracing. They did not shut down the country, and yet, they have done a far better job than any Western countries. And if that doctor is to be believed, masks are the main difference.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Are you for real right now or at this point just shit posting?

Wearing it incorrectly is worse than not wearing it at all, because not only are you not doing jack shit to protect yourself, but you are also wasting a mask that could have been worn by a medical professional who will actually use it correctly.

And licking the mask... ha ha ha. Touching the mask, then touching something else or someone and now that thing or that person is contaminated. But yeah, funny joke.
I take it you haven’t interacted with Cal before? You should discuss Messi and Ronaldo with him. Will make your life complete.
 

Gambit

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Might find this interesting.
 

Cal?

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Yeah, well, you're wrong... but on the bright side, you've shown absolutely no ability to recognize that fact.
You seem completely incapable to see that the hard numbers in most east Asian countries clearly point to the fact that masks work.

Even the WHO have changed their view on this.
 
Revan talking to himself

Revan

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Another thing mentioned all the time. I mean, reading stuff, it seems that you might need a couple of PhDs to put a fecking mask on your face. I wonder how extensive training did Korea and China so that everyone can wear masks there. I assume, they stopped everything and put every citizen in a 5-year university degree called 'how to wear a mask'.
But it is such a ridiculous thing to say in the first place, right? Let's not wear masks because we do not know how to wear them, only the trained people know how to do it.

The reality is:
1) To offer 99% protection (when working with ill patients), you really need to know how to wear it. Because you are in close contact with them, so even a small gap, can make a big difference.
2) When you are in the supermarket shopping, you do not actually need to know how to wear them. You are still keeping social distancing, the mask essentially is just another layer of social distancing. It keeps you from touching the face, if you cough, you cough inside the mask, and if someone coughs, there is a high possibility that some/most of droplets will get stuck in the mask instead of getting into your mouth/nose (and when we are there, use glasses too to protect the eyes). This is better than no protection, it obviously won't give you the same protection as to doctors/nurses, but you do not need it in the first place.

What they said instead was: unless you are a pro, you must not wear a mask, cause you do not know how to do it, and you will make more harm than good. So, wear a scarf instead.

As anyone suggested that using a mask increase the risks? I'm pretty sure that anyone with a bit of common sense simply said that the usefulness was limited for almost everyone. It's very useful if you have a cold or have Covid-19 though, in that case you should definitely wear one particularly inside.
Yes, plenty of time. We saw doctors saying that 'you peasants do not know in what we have to go to wear them', we saw countless people from state officials, to people in twitter, to people here saying that we do not know how to wear masks, so we will do more harm than good by doing so.

It is all a type of propaganda cause the governments miserably failed in ensuring a solid production of masks that will make them available to everyone. So, obviously, saying that 'they protect you to some degree, but doctors need them more, so do not use them' would not have worked with most people, so instead they had to spread lies and misinformation in order to ensure that doctors/nurses have enough masks. Which probably is the right thing to do, they need them far more than us, and they are far more important than us (if I get sick, I'll stay home for 2 weeks, if a doctor gets sick, he also stays home for 2 weeks, but then 100 patients who are really sick cannot get the needed treatment). But the real right thing would have been to increase the production.
 

0le

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You seem completely incapable to see that the hard numbers in most east Asian countries clearly point to the fact that masks work.

Even the WHO have changed their view on this.
Considering that other countries, which are significantly less rich than the US seem to be able to do so, I guess so. Obviously, we cannot wake a day and say, 'ah, today we change the policy, let's make masks for everyone', but if the problem was looked seriously since January, then we would have been in a much better state. At the end of the day, it is a mask, not rocket science.

And of course, the masks sold for the general public do not need to be as good as those used by doctors (who are at a far higher risk). They do not need to offer 99% protection or close by. They just need to offer some protection and still be combined with social distancing to achieve a higher effect of mitigation. No one is saying, everyone wears a mask and then life goes on as usual.
It's really tiring debating these issues with both of you. You both seem to be taking the extreme view here, rather than a pragmatic one.
 

nimic

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Well, the equivalent of Fauci in South Korea said so. There should be an interview in this thread posted a couple of days ago.

South Korea actually had less strict measures than the US and most of Europe. They didn't have a lockdown at all. Probably comparable to the measures of Sweden/Holland, but combined with everyone wearing masks, massive checks on fever, and large-scale testing combined with individual quarantines and contact-tracing. They did not shut down the country, and yet, they have done a far better job than any Western countries. And if that doctor is to be believed, masks are the main difference.
They had very strict monitoring using technology, and alerting people if they needed to be quarantined/had been in proximity with someone who had been infected. Caused a few privacy scandals, such as a notification going out about a business manager and his secretary who had been in China on a trip together.

We saw doctors saying that 'you peasants do not know in what we have to go to wear them', we saw countless people from state officials, to people in twitter, to people here saying that we do not know how to wear masks, so we will do more harm than good by doing so.

It is all a type of propaganda cause the governments miserably failed in ensuring a solid production of masks that will make them available to everyone.
Right, so when it's the "South Korean Fauci" saying masks are the most important thing, it's a strong expert opinion, but when others say it isn't, it's condescending propaganda.
 

Hansa

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Haven't read every post about masks, so somebody might well have mentioned this already, but regardless of the efficiency, the masks are also used as a sign of responsibility in Asian countries, i.e. "I'm thinking of your well-being". Not wearing one is almost the same as walking around coughing in people's faces. Or so I've heard.
 

JPRouve

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You seem completely incapable to see that the hard numbers in most east Asian countries clearly point to the fact that masks work.

Even the WHO have changed their view on this.
The hard numbers aren't actually due to masks. If you use South Korea it's mainly down to a handful of relatively simple things, first they created an examination protocols that allows doctors to never be in contact with patients and patients to be separated from each others, they use consultations booths outside of hospitals, the other thing is that they are totally connected everyone and their contacts are easily traceable and have been traced, the last point is a culture of cleanliness, they quickly cleaned every sensible spots. All of that is based on their recent experiences with previous coronaviruses.
 

golden_blunder

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California doing quite well, which is to be expected cause of social distancing going on and stay at home orders for almost a month now. But Texas is beyond my thinking. As far as I know, they have done feck all to mitigate this, but still somehow are hardly effected.
They’re shooting anything that moves
 

FrankDrebin

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Seriously?! Isn’t that illegal? Maybe give the old Bill a ring?
Honestly,I'm not sure it'll do much.
Some parts are quiet and are clearly sticking to the lockdown guidelines while others places,like where this pub is,are busy. It'll be a lost cause.
 

Pogue Mahone

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On the masks thing. I can confirm that there is, categorically, 100% a severe shortage of the type of masks that HCWs need to wear to protect them while they’re doing the job. Which happens when the whole fecking world tries to buy a product in quantities many thousands of times higher than the manufacturers usually produce. This is one of the biggest challenges that governments face right now in containing the epidemic. If doctors/nurses start getting sick/dying then this whole house of cards really starts falling apart, big time.

Now, have a think about how much worse this shortage would be if every citizen on the planet had been bidding to buy these exact same masks over the last couple of months after governments told them they were essential...

Obviously, if the public had been willing to purchase the sort of cheaper, more widely available masks instead then this potential crisis might have been averted. But, unfortunately, we live in an age full of social media “experts” who would have let everyone know how shit the standard masks are how it’s absolutely essential to bulk buy as many N95 masks as possible, or you’re signing your family’s death certificate. We saw what happened with bog roll ffs. This would have been that x 1000.
 

Suedesi

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Great video. Might be best in the sticky thread if not already there.

I do believe masks are the key reason for the lack of spread in Asian countries. Japan and Hong Kong have way more Chinese tourists as well.

Masks will collect more droplets, less projection, less landing on surfaces. Contamination doesn't spiral and should be worn at home at times.

I would've had companies mass produce them and send everyone a box ages ago. Cost verses the damage now is a few pennies in comparison. Also trains you to not touch face, asymptomatic spreaders can be greatly lessened, sick people can wear one without being self conscious if more or most are wearing one and instructed to do so. Especially in shops, care homes. This is being brought into care homes and would've had testing done on these people regularly.

Instead of WHO and western people trying to downplay them and worrying about the supply, just make more already.
fecking WHO

 

Pexbo

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On the masks thing. I can confirm that there is, categorically, 100% a severe shortage of the type of masks that HCWs need to wear to protect them while they’re doing the job. This is one of the biggest challenges that governments face right now in containing the epidemic. If doctors/nurses start getting sick/dying then this whole house of cards really starts falling apart, big time.

Now, have a think about how much worse this shortage would be if every citizen on the planet had been bidding to buy these exact same masks over the last couple of months after governments told them they were essential...

Obviously, if the public had been willing to purchase the sort of cheaper, more widely available masks instead then this potential crisis might have been averted. But, unfortunately, we live in an age full of social media “experts” who would have let everyone know how shit the standard masks are how it’s absolutely essential to bulk buy as many N95 masks as possible, or you’re signing your family’s death certificate. We saw what happened with bog roll ffs. This would have been that x 1000.
This is why I think masks are likely a great help but the fact is that it’s a zero sum game and more lives will be saved discouraging the public from using them in order to maximise the number that reach health service workers.
 

Revan

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On the masks thing. I can confirm that there is, categorically, 100% a severe shortage of the type of masks that HCWs need to wear to protect them while they’re doing the job. This is one of the biggest challenges that governments face right now in containing the epidemic. If doctors/nurses start getting sick/dying then this whole house of cards really starts falling apart, big time.

Now, have a think about how much worse this shortage would be if every citizen on the planet had been bidding to buy these exact same masks over the last couple of months after governments told them they were essential...

Obviously, if the public had been willing to purchase the sort of cheaper, more widely available masks instead then this potential crisis might have been averted. But, unfortunately, we live in an age full of social media “experts” who would have let everyone know how shit the standard masks are how it’s absolutely essential to bulk buy as many N95 masks as possible, or you’re signing your family’s death certificate. We saw what happened with bog roll ffs. This would have been that x 1000.
This is a fair point. Which is why I said that there could have been cheaper/less-protective masks for the average Joe, and N95 and others for doctors/nurses. South Korea had an interesting take on this. They had a shortage of surgical masks too (though it is not called N95 there), so they did a campaign when people who have those masks can donate them, and in turn get the cheaper cloth versions. Which I assume means that those work too for general public (who do not need to have the same protection as doctors), while keep the best masks for the medical people. Which is the right thing to do.

 

Cal?

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Haven't read every post about masks, so somebody might well have mentioned this already, but regardless of the efficiency, the masks are also used as a sign of responsibility in Asian countries, i.e. "I'm thinking of your well-being". Not wearing one is almost the same as walking around coughing in people's faces. Or so I've heard.
This is true certainly in Hong Kong, if you go wander about without a mask now, you will be frowned upon.
 

nme_pro

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I’ve just returned from a trip to Purley Tesco’s and it was one of the best shopping experiences I’ve ever had there!
Security at entrance limiting numbers inside the store which are way lower than usual. Everyone being respectful of the 2m distance and some esprit de corps with the chat with people.
Usually that store is chock full of cnuts and it’s horrible shopping in there. I presume they are still there but behaving themselves?
The security guard at the door was about 6ft10 and 20 stone at a guess so that may have dissuaded anyone from teeing one up
Hi neighbour! I've never walked in to that Tesco unimpeded, it's like people walk in and turn into floor/ceiling tile enthusiasts.

Did you find any eggs in there?

Had to go and pick up a prescription at the war memorial hospital/clinic and they have a bucket ton of calpol/lemsip/paracetamol if you need it and can't find it anywhere else.

There's a lot of at risk people round our way, if there's an outbreak around here it's going to get pretty scary pretty quickly
 
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kouroux

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On the masks thing. I can confirm that there is, categorically, 100% a severe shortage of the type of masks that HCWs need to wear to protect them while they’re doing the job. Which happens when the whole fecking world tries to buy a product in quantities many thousands of times higher than the manufacturers usually produce. This is one of the biggest challenges that governments face right now in containing the epidemic. If doctors/nurses start getting sick/dying then this whole house of cards really starts falling apart, big time.

Now, have a think about how much worse this shortage would be if every citizen on the planet had been bidding to buy these exact same masks over the last couple of months after governments told them they were essential...

Obviously, if the public had been willing to purchase the sort of cheaper, more widely available masks instead then this potential crisis might have been averted. But, unfortunately, we live in an age full of social media “experts” who would have let everyone know how shit the standard masks are how it’s absolutely essential to bulk buy as many N95 masks as possible, or you’re signing your family’s death certificate. We saw what happened with bog roll ffs. This would have been that x 1000.
So true. Any protection is worth something (mask in regular tissue), the proper masks should be left to the medical workers and sick people.
This fecking selfish world we live in.
 

Cal?

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On the masks thing. I can confirm that there is, categorically, 100% a severe shortage of the type of masks that HCWs need to wear to protect them while they’re doing the job. Which happens when the whole fecking world tries to buy a product in quantities many thousands of times higher than the manufacturers usually produce. This is one of the biggest challenges that governments face right now in containing the epidemic. If doctors/nurses start getting sick/dying then this whole house of cards really starts falling apart, big time.

Now, have a think about how much worse this shortage would be if every citizen on the planet had been bidding to buy these exact same masks over the last couple of months after governments told them they were essential...

Obviously, if the public had been willing to purchase the sort of cheaper, more widely available masks instead then this potential crisis might have been averted. But, unfortunately, we live in an age full of social media “experts” who would have let everyone know how shit the standard masks are how it’s absolutely essential to bulk buy as many N95 masks as possible, or you’re signing your family’s death certificate. We saw what happened with bog roll ffs. This would have been that x 1000.
Fair enough
 

Penna

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Walked past a pub today on my daily hour walk.
Its open. People inside. England's f*cked.
Did you call the police? It's going to get worse next week, the weather's warming up in the UK. Some people think that gives them a green card to go out and have fun.

It seems like a million years since anything was open here, even for a cup of coffee.
 

fergieisold

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Do explain why the pale blue lines are all countries where most people wear masks.
I don't think I've been clear. It stops the spread via already infected people. If you are wearing a mask and are not infected the evidence is that it does little to protect you.

If it only reduces those who are infected from spreading (asymptomatic as infected should anyway be in self isolation) , and acts as a reminder for wearers to not touch nose or mouth, then these are good enough reasons to wear for me.

Assuming of course this is not at the expense of front line workers such as NHS, shop and retail sector workers etc
Agreed, I don't think I was clear enough. The masks help for sure if the infected wear them. The evidence I've read suggests it isn't protective for non infected persons. (though I'm still doubtful about that despite the science being done)

Who passes on this virus? The infected.
Yes, they do. The masks stop that. If you aren't infected a mask likely won't help you.

**edit. define mask...that's also going to have a huge impact!
 

Shane88

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Bookies and online betting must be dying on their arse during this time. I can't remember the last bet I placed. Some positivity.
 

Brwned

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Do explain why the pale blue lines are all countries where most people wear masks.
You sure that's true for Singapore?

Over 80% of folks in places like Hong Kong, China, Taiwan have said they wear a mask in public places throughout the last 6 weeks. Around 25% of folks in Singapore have said the same...consistently throughout the month. According to this data anyway.



And of course the trajectory for Japan now is quite a bit different to what it was back in mid-March, despite the extensive use of masks. There's a few other countries in Asia that are beginning to show worrying signs despite widespread (claimed) use of masks too.

All of which taken together might suggest there's other things that Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea (and Taiwan) have in common than masks.
 

do.ob

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fecking WHO

The WHO has to deal in facts and they aren't omniscient, it seems like there are very few certainties about the virus even within the expert community. So releasing bits of information based on the studies that they can get seems like the logical or perhaps only thing to do.
 

Suedesi

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As I've been saying all along, face masks work, and finally the WHO is coming round to the most obvious fact.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/...-mask-use-general-public-coronavirus/12118042
Advisers to the World Health Organisation (WHO) are considering whether to suggest new guidance for the public on wearing face masks as a way to limit the spread of coronavirus.

This comes after new research suggests that coughs and sneezes may project particles much further into the air than previously thought — six metres for a cough and up to eight metres for a sneeze.

Who the feck needs more research to know that wearing a mask is better than not wearing one during a global pandemic?

WHO are clowns.
 

vodrake

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There's a Guardian article about some Telecoms Engineers in the UK being verbally and physically threatened and Facebook groups of people videoing themselves destroying phone equipment because of a conspiracy theory going around that the Coronavirus is caused by 5G. :houllier: