SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

17 Van der Gouw

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I suspect it’s quite serious. For a man of his importance, am sure a doctor could visit him at his residence ‘for bloods and a check up’.

Also no matter what they say, any covid19 suffering President or PM being forced to go to hospital is going to be HUGE news, let alone it being Boris and UK.

And lastly, given there is no vaccine or cure, what can they do at hospital that you can’t do at home, roughing it out? Maybe any resident docs on here can advise?

Unless it’s a double bluff after Queens speech: scare British public into staying at home: if PM can get so Ill, we are all doomed if we step outside!
You jest, but that would be a masterstroke. I don't know why, but somehow the news that he's been hospitalised is quite scary. Maybe it's because it demonstrates how nobody is really safe from it.
 

sammsky1

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You jest, but that would be a masterstroke. I don't know why, but somehow the news that he's been hospitalised is quite scary. Maybe it's because it demonstrates how nobody is really safe from it.
Yep, that's partly what I felt upon hearing the news.

Im no fan of his at all, and not entirely convinced by his covid19 crisis strategy so far. But in the here and now, we desperately need him to lead the team he has assembled. It will be beyond catastrophic if he can’t as in politics a new leader won’t be able to lead a team they didn’t put together. Certainly not in the middle of a crisis where nobody has any prior experience and everyone is learning on the hoof!

If he dies, who takes his place? Raab? Patel? Javed? Hancock? May??

It will be beyond a shit show!!!!!
 

golden_blunder

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Yep, that's partly what I felt upon hearing the news.

Im no fan of his at all, and not entirely convinced by his covid19 crisis strategy so far. But in the here and now, we desperately need him to lead the team he has assembled. It will be beyond catastrophic if he can’t as in politics a new leader won’t be able to lead a team they didn’t put together. Certainly not in the middle of a crisis where nobody has any prior experience and everyone is learning on the hoof!

If he dies, who takes his place? Raab? Patel? Javed? Hancock? May??

It will be beyond a shit show!!!!!
Give it to Major til end of the season
 

Anustart89

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And lastly, given there is no vaccine or cure, what can they do at hospital that you can’t do at home, roughing it out? Maybe any resident docs on here can advise?
Give supplementary oxygen, fluids and nutrition if unable to consume food and drinks, and advanced monitoring to quickly spot deterioration and intubate in case that's needed to secure oxygenation.

Also, a significant percentage of the (admittedly few) patients that I've treated with severe infections have gone into kidney failure (amongst other organ systems) of varying degrees, for which dialysis could be provided if needed, etc etc etc.
 

Organic Potatoes

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Why tigers? Like, not dogs, not cats.. but tigers?

And if tigers are technically cats, why don't cats get it? Or do they?
There are cases of transmission to pets. So even if you hate everyone, stay at home for the sake of your puppy dog.

There are no cases reported of transmission from pets to humans, so don‘t go knocking off strays like has been reported elsewhere.
 

Foxbatt

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What really happens if Bojo passes away? Do they need to have a leadership election in the Tories?
 

Sarni

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Are people unable to plan their groceries in advance for more than 3 days ahead? There are about 10,000 households in my area and three supermarkets. Lidl is closest to where I live and I always walk by when I walk my dog. All of the last 3 days, since they’ve put a limit allowing only 24 people to be inside at the same time, there are queues of 40-50 people in front of supermarket, and it is open 24 hours. Even before midnight today there were queues outside. It’s like everyone goes there everyday to pick up something otherwise I can’t explain it, and it defeats the purpose of limits inside when you have two times that queuing outside. Also, before these restrictions were put in place there was absolutely no issue with shopping here - most supermarkets were fairly empty and I swear there weren’t more than 20 people when I went there at any point over prior three weeks. It seems those additional restrictions have somehow urged people to panic buy again.
 

Paxi

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Has anyone else read the claims out there that Advil (ibuprofen) makes coronavirus far worse?
There isn't enough data but from what I've read, the advice is just not to risk it and use paracetamol.
 

sammsky1

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Give supplementary oxygen, fluids and nutrition if unable to consume food and drinks, and advanced monitoring to quickly spot deterioration and intubate in case that's needed to secure oxygenation.

Also, a significant percentage of the (admittedly few) patients that I've treated with severe infections have gone into kidney failure (amongst other organ systems) of varying degrees, for which dialysis could be provided if needed, etc etc etc.
Many thanks for the input. So all of that sounds quite serious. Certainly not just for 'extra tests'.

Presumably, if he cant easily consume nutrition, that weakens him, and in turn, his immunity system? ditto sounds like his immune system alone is not able to deal with the virus and he needs significant extra help.

Am quite worried for him. What do you think?

PS: Thanks for all your critical work right now, and always!
 

FootballHQ

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What really happens if Bojo passes away? Do they need to have a leadership election in the Tories?
No idea. Perhaps Queen will have to step in and ask for all parties to come together in national interest given the combined emergency of pandemic and Prime Minister passing away.

Obviously hope it comes nowhere near that and he can be stabilised and health improve over next few days.
 

Skills

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No idea. Perhaps Queen will have to step in and ask for all parties to come together in national interest given the combined emergency of pandemic and Prime Minister passing away.

Obviously hope it comes nowhere near that and he can be stabilised and health improve over next few days.
Gove or Patel are next in rank no? They'd takeover in a national emergency
 

sammsky1

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Are people unable to plan their groceries in advance for more than 3 days ahead? There are about 10,000 households in my area and three supermarkets. Lidl is closest to where I live and I always walk by when I walk my dog. All of the last 3 days, since they’ve put a limit allowing only 24 people to be inside at the same time, there are queues of 40-50 people in front of supermarket, and it is open 24 hours. Even before midnight today there were queues outside. It’s like everyone goes there everyday to pick up something otherwise I can’t explain it, and it defeats the purpose of limits inside when you have two times that queuing outside. Also, before these restrictions were put in place there was absolutely no issue with shopping here - most supermarkets were fairly empty and I swear there weren’t more than 20 people when I went there at any point over prior three weeks. It seems those additional restrictions have somehow urged people to panic buy again.
I've read/heard anecdotal stories of people going to different supermarkets on same day, because its something to do and is loophole around the current Government guidelines.
 

SteveJ

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Johnson's hospital admission suggests virus may have progressed
It is unlikely the prime minister will have been admitted unless doctors have real concerns

Most people recover from Covid-19 within a week and cannot even be certain they had it, as they probably won’t be tested. The advice is to stay home, rest and take paracetamol. In 80% of cases, that is the end of it.

But NHS advice is that if the symptoms – mainly the dry cough, temperature and fatigue – have not gone by the end of a week, or they get worse, people should seek medical help.

Unlike Matt Hancock, the health secretary, who revealed he had Covid-19 on the same day as the prime minister, Boris Johnson has not recovered within the first week. He is said to have been admitted to hospital for tests, which may include scans of his lungs to check for pneumonia, as well as blood tests. He had a diagnostic test for Covid-19, so doctors will be looking for progression of the disease and to establish that he has not entered the second phase, where the immune system goes into overdrive.

Given the increasing pressure on hospitals at the moment, it is unlikely he will have been admitted unless doctors have real concerns. Minor tests could be carried out in Downing Street.

Early guidelines from the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (Nice) suggest the following symptoms may help a doctor to decide whether a patient with Covid-19 should go to hospital:

Severe shortness of breath at rest or difficulty breathing.
Coughing up blood.
Blue lips or face.
Feeling cold and clammy with pale or mottled skin.
Collapse or fainting (syncope).
New confusion.
Becoming difficult to rouse.
Little or no urine output.
In the first week, people who are fit and healthy, with a robust immune system, will usually fight off the virus. But the problems come for some people in the second week, when their immune system overreacts to the virus and ends up attacking the body’s own organs. That is why the most seriously ill can end up on life support machines with organ failure.

Chinese data showed that 20% of patients went to hospital. Some 15% had severe disease, which involved breathing difficulties and hypoxia, where some of the tissues of the body are not getting an adequate oxygen supply. That can manifest in anxiety, confusion and restlessness.

Only 5% ended up in critical care, with such severe illness that they needed organ support. Ventilators can take over the patient’s breathing, to allow the lungs time to recover. But patients could also need support for their heart, liver and kidneys – although many of those needing that sort of mechanical help have underlying conditions which make them particularly vulnerable.


(Source: Guardian)
 

sammsky1

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Give it to Major til end of the season
If Major or Heseltine or even Ken Clarke could demonstrate being mentally and intellectually 'fit for purpose', I'd rather any of them take over for the next 2 months than have any of BJ's current senior ministers take over. And that's even with BJ doing only a vaguely satisfactory job right now.
 

17 Van der Gouw

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Imagine six months ago telling somebody that this would be the front page of the BBC website in the Spring.

What a crazy time to be alive.

 

Anustart89

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Many thanks for the input.

So all of that sounds 'quite serious'! Presumably, if he cant easily consume nutrition, that weakens him, and in turn, his immunity system? ditto sounds like his immune system alone is not able to deal with the virus and he needs significant extra help.

Am quite worried for him. What do you think?

PS: Thanks for all your critical work right now, and always!
If you're affected to such an extent that you need oxygen or help with nutrition I'd say it's serious (not saying he necessarily does as I know nothing with regards to his actual condition or reason for admission), just like you can have a serious case of the flu and be in need of such therapies.

I'm very worried for anyone contracting this and ending up in the hospital, but I'm obviously biased in the other direction as I work with the most serious cases. We've had about six patients in our Covid ICU (of which two have passed (so far)) and I don't really know how many have been discharged from our hospital after being successfully treated. By the way, by "treated" it's mostly about supplying oxygen one way or another while the body deals with the infection and treating other conditions like bacterial infections alongside it etc. Most other proposed treatments like chloroquine etc have no real evidence supporting their use in Covid patients.

With regards to BoJo's situation, he's quite a bit younger than all the patients that have ended up in our ICU, so I don't think it's a certainty that he'll be as harshly affected just because he might (again, assuming) need oxygen therapy or other treatments. But his deterioration follows along the same timeline that we've seen, ie hospital admission on the tenth day of presenting with symptoms.
 

Paxi

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I don't see anything good coming from something bad happening to BoJo.

I'd like him to go away but not in the middle of a crisis and certainly not in hearse.
Especially baby on the way. Would be heartbreaking. No one, absolutely no one deserves that.
 

FootballHQ

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Gove or Patel are next in rank no? They'd takeover in a national emergency
Raab is deputy PM currently so he'll get the press conference gig tomorrow at least to continue to introduce him to the wide audience who have no idea who he is (loads probably think he's Cummings given his first name!)

Can't say I'd have much confidence in him although it's a very unique situation. It's ironically something Cameron would probably excel at, getting the message across to stay at home and more decisive measures.
 

RUCK4444

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Would be awful if anything happened to him, I haven’t been his biggest fan since the Brexit campaign but the last thing we need as a country is to lose its leader right now
 

FootballHQ

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Got to be honest I did chuckle at seeing someone post "we're only a few coughs away from Chris Grayling being acting PM." :lol: :houllier:

If you want real inept leadership he's your man.
 

JMack1234

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Why do you think other country's leaders have drawn comparison between this pandemic and WW2?
I don't know but they are also wrong.

There is no fascist dictator looking at the white cliffs or Dover via binoculars. Lord Haw-Haw isn't broadcasting through our radios. Jack boots will not be goosestepping through our streets and there are no aircraft indiscriminately bombing houses.

The only war is between the virus and our immune system and our immune system is the overwhelming favourite for that fight.
 

bri2013

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Raab is deputy PM currently so he'll get the press conference gig tomorrow at least to continue to introduce him to the wide audience who have no idea who he is (loads probably think he's Cummings given his first name!)

Can't say I'd have much confidence in him although it's a very unique situation. It's ironically something Cameron would probably excel at, getting the message across to stay at home and more decisive measures.
Is Raab Deputy PM? Didn't know we had one?
 

JMack1234

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It's becoming increasingly obvious that no.10 has played down Johnson's illness from the start.

I don't want to speculate too much but the whole 'routine tests' doesn't ring true to me. If Johnson has to go to hospital, instead of the Doctors coming to him.. I suspect his condition maybe more serious than is being revealed. I fear that he maybe one of those previously fit 50 somethings who need prolonged medical care.

I hope I'm wrong and I pray that he's okay.
 

JMack1234

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Is Raab Deputy PM? Didn't know we had one?
I don't think we have an official deputy PM, but Raab is 'First Secretary of State' as well as Foreign Sec. Which I assume is Whitehall speak for designated successor.
 

Wibble

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Thanks but I still don’t quite understand how reproductive ability of a virus is something humans can change (other than immunity). Wouldn’t the coronavirus still have the ability to infect an average of X number of people (by way of how contagious it is) regardless of how many people are in lockdown? How does that get suppressed?
R0 is the "natural" infection rate. When you flatten the curve with social distancing and lockdowns this is an expression of it's actual rate of infection at a point in time in a specific place and is called R (not R0).
 
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FootballHQ

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It's becoming increasingly obvious that no.10 has played down Johnson's illness from the start.

I don't want to speculate too much but the whole 'routine tests' doesn't ring true to me. If Johnson has to go to hospital, instead of the Doctors coming to him.. I suspect his condition maybe more serious than is being revealed. I fear that he maybe one of those previously fit 50 somethings who need prolonged medical care.

I hope I'm wrong and I pray that he's okay.
You're more than likely right...there are rumours he's on a ventilator although that has only appeared in Russian press who obviously would relish putting frightners up U.K.
 

The Boy

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Is Raab Deputy PM? Didn't know we had one?
Raab is not Deputy PM and you’re right we don’t have one right now, but on March 22nd Raab was appointed as the person who would step in if anything happened to the PM, like a designated survivor) This doesn’t mean he’d automatically become PM though. What would likely happen is the cabinet would have to agree on an interim leader, while a new leadership contest took place. The pressure would then be on to agree on one candidate so they could run unopposed in this situation, rather like Leadsom dropped out to let May run unopposed in that leadership contest. The idea being the transition would be as swift and smooth as possible.

I would put my money on Gove but that’s pure speculation.
 

sammsky1

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If you're affected to such an extent that you need oxygen or help with nutrition I'd say it's serious (not saying he necessarily does as I know nothing with regards to his actual condition or reason for admission), just like you can have a serious case of the flu and be in need of such therapies.

I'm very worried for anyone contracting this and ending up in the hospital, but I'm obviously biased in the other direction as I work with the most serious cases. We've had about six patients in our Covid ICU (of which two have passed (so far)) and I don't really know how many have been discharged from our hospital after being successfully treated. By the way, by "treated" it's mostly about supplying oxygen one way or another while the body deals with the infection and treating other conditions like bacterial infections alongside it etc. Most other proposed treatments like chloroquine etc have no real evidence supporting their use in Covid patients.

With regards to BoJo's situation, he's quite a bit younger than all the patients that have ended up in our ICU, so I don't think it's a certainty that he'll be as harshly affected just because he might (again, assuming) need oxygen therapy or other treatments. But his deterioration follows along the same timeline that we've seen, ie hospital admission on the tenth day of presenting with symptoms.
My sister is also a doctor on the front line, and her point to me all along has been if you need a hospital visit, you should be in real trouble, hence Government policy of stay away from GP and only come hospital if seriously seriously ill. And that those admitted to hospital on day 7-10 of illness often require a ventilator.

I think it's quite a bad situation especially as you say that '10 days' is a common time to require hospitalisation.

What % of those who require hospitalisation end up dying? UK and globally?
 
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Sir Matt

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Would be awful if anything happened to him, I haven’t been his biggest fan since the Brexit campaign but the last thing we need as a country is to lose its leader right now
You say that, but as an American...:nervous:

I'm sure Dominic Cummings can keep running the show for you though.