SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Penna

Kind Moderator (with a bit of a mean streak)
Staff
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
49,661
Location
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
In Sweden, the decision to attempt resuscitation or not lies completely with the medically trained people treating the patient. The patient, or their closest relatives, must be informed but agreement with the decision is not necessary. Also, there's a difference between there 'being risks' and there being a near certainty for a very low quality of life after a resuscitation attempt, which would be the case here.

Essentially, the fact that he was asked his opinion on resuscitation doesn't necessarily mean that he actually had a say in the matter. It was more likely asked to gauge whether they would have to explain to the man why they would be going against his wishes or if they were in agreement with regards to the decision that was actually made.

I do think that the way the tweet put it (asked to sign a DNR) comes across as very harsh though.

Obviously, this is based on the legal framework being similar to Sweden's.
It's not vastly different in the UK - there was a landmark case about 10 years ago which was based on the fact that the patient and family hadn't been consulted. The patient (in her 60s) had terminal lung cancer and had been admitted after sustaining a cervical fracture in an RTA, so it was a very different set of circumstances.

I don't know anything about how you approach the medical care of very old people in your country - hopefully it's better than in the UK!
 

17 Van der Gouw

biffa bin
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
6,516
Encourage many to do what exactly.
'Encouraging' doesn't have to mean prompting somebody to act, in this case, I meant she spoke wisely and at times profoundly. Many, especially the elderly will have found that 'encouraging' and morale boosting.
 

Rado_N

Yaaas Broncos!
Joined
Apr 6, 2009
Messages
110,908
Location
Manchester
I’m no fan of the royals but you’ve got to be pretty damned ignorant to ask why the queen is speaking at a time like this for feck sake.
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
51,446
Location
Manchester
It has nothing to do with her age, just don’t see how a speech from the Queen would inspire anyone. The Royals have no relevance to real life, they’re just a tourist attraction.
Fortunately you're in the minority and obviously have an issue with the Queen hence calling her an old bag.

Makes everything you say, and your opinion, subjective bollocks.
 

Grinner

Not fat gutted. Hirsuteness of shoulders TBD.
Staff
Joined
May 5, 2003
Messages
72,287
Location
I love free dirt and rocks!
Supports
Arsenal
It has nothing to do with her age, just don’t see how a speech from the Queen would inspire anyone. The Royals have no relevance to real life, they’re just a tourist attraction.

If you want to discuss the relevance of the royals then take it to another thread. Some people like her and some people don't but inflammatory posting can lead to warnings and the like so please take it elsewhere.
 

GeorgieBoy

Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
2,069
It has nothing to do with her age, just don’t see how a speech from the Queen would inspire anyone. The Royals have no relevance to real life, they’re just a tourist attraction.
Lots of people, particularly the elderly, would have found her speech re-assuring and taken something from it.
I really couldn't care less about the Royals but not sure why so many people seem so intent on dismissing this speech tonight.
 

Josep Dowling

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
7,622
Fortunately you're in the minority and obviously have an issue with the Queen hence calling her an old bag.

Makes everything you say, and your opinion, subjective bollocks.
There are many who don’t like the Royals but due to the media spin its constantly portrayed that everyone loves them. So it isn’t subjective bollocks at all.
 

Penna

Kind Moderator (with a bit of a mean streak)
Staff
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
49,661
Location
Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est.
'Encouraging' doesn't have to mean prompting somebody to act, in this case, I meant she spoke wisely and at times profoundly. Many, especially the elderly will have found that 'encouraging' and morale boosting.
Yes, I've never been a Royalist, but the fact that she makes so few public speeches makes it significant when she decides she wants to speak to the nation. The vast majority of Brits have no recollection of her not being the monarch, she's a constant whereas politicians come and go like buses. She's also dignified, something that's sadly lacking as far as political leaders are concerned.
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
51,446
Location
Manchester
There are many who don’t like the Royals but due to the media spin its constantly portrayed that everyone loves them. So it isn’t subjective bollocks at all.
I'm not talking about many I'm talking about you. Your opening gambit was to be derogatory about her. Your opinion is subjective and clearly skewed as you don't like her. That makes what you say emotive bollocks.
 

Josep Dowling

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
7,622
If you want to discuss the relevance of the royals then take it to another thread. Some people like her and some people don't but inflammatory posting can lead to warnings and the like so please take it elsewhere.
Fair point.
 

The Firestarter

Full Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
28,111
Can't get some of your lot. She is your fecking head of state, its expected for such a position to address the nation in a global crisis likethe current one. Whether or not you like having permanent head of state, that's a completely different discussion.
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
51,446
Location
Manchester
Can't get some of your lot. She is your fecking head of state, its expected for such a position to address the nation in a global crisis likethe current one. Whether or not you like having permanent head of state, that's a completely different discussion.
It epitomises all that's wrong with the country at the moment to be honest.
 

Anustart89

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
15,912
It's not vastly different in the UK - there was a landmark case about 10 years ago which was based on the fact that the patient and family hadn't been consulted. The patient (in her 60s) had terminal lung cancer and had been admitted after sustaining a cervical fracture in an RTA, so it was a very different set of circumstances.

I don't know anything about how you approach the medical care of very old people in your country - hopefully it's better than in the UK!
Even in those (open and shut in terms of resuscitation) cases there have been reprimands for not informing the patient or next of kin of DNR decisions.

It varies from case to case obviously, but it's not impossible that we would admit a 90 year old, otherwise healthy, patient to the ICU for noradrenaline treatment in case of sepsis, but state ahead of time that we won't start dialysis or intubate the patient should they deteriorate further.

We might also not admit the patient to the ICU at all even if they're 60 due to poor short-term prognosis, so it depends on quality of life, comorbidities and short to medium term prognosis.
 

GDaly95

Says he's one of the best posters
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
6,263
Location
Wicklow, Ireland
Why tigers? Like, not dogs, not cats.. but tigers?

And if tigers are technically cats, why don't cats get it? Or do they?
 

TheReligion

Abusive
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
51,446
Location
Manchester
Why tigers? Like, not dogs, not cats.. but tigers?

And if tigers are technically cats, why don't cats get it? Or do they?
A friend of mine used to say on a night out "pussy's pussy" just before taking home a vile looking girl.

Same applies here.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,354
Location
France
Why tigers? Like, not dogs, not cats.. but tigers?

And if tigers are technically cats, why don't cats get it? Or do they?
A few days ago a belgian cat was allegedly positive. And dogs in Hong Kong.
 

17 Van der Gouw

biffa bin
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
6,516
Why tigers? Like, not dogs, not cats.. but tigers?

And if tigers are technically cats, why don't cats get it? Or do they?
Actually there have been cases of cats being infected, and a couple of dogs in China too.
 
Last edited:

sammsky1

Pochettino's #1 fan
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
32,841
Location
London
Yes somewhat agree, downing street are playing it down as for "routine bloods" but I would have thought that that they could be done in the community. Who knows.
I suspect it’s quite serious. For a man of his importance, am sure a doctor could visit him at his residence ‘for bloods and a check up’.

Also no matter what they say, any covid19 suffering President or PM being forced to go to hospital is going to be HUGE news, let alone it being Boris and UK.

And lastly, given there is no vaccine or cure, what can they do at hospital that you can’t do at home, roughing it out? Maybe any resident docs on here can advise?

Unless it’s a double bluff after Queens speech: scare British public into staying at home: if PM can get so Ill, we are all doomed if we step outside!