Did anyone see Jon Stewart’s appearance on Colbert the other night peddling the lab leak theory? I think he’s lost his mind.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
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Hmmm, didn't see it, but I will say a lab leak isn't an impossible concept. I don't buy the idea of a lab manufactured virus or deliberate lab leak. But an accidental infection to a lab worker working on a live virus? Not impossible.
The idea that "something" odd happened at the Wuhan lab (or indeed that the Wuhan Lab had already seen the virus leap to a human host but without causing disease) before the official Case Zero date in Wuhan is backed up by some circumstantial evidence. The WHO delegation really didn't have enough access to give an answer the questions.
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This is a puzzle (not just because it’s in French!)
Not a puzzle at all. Bulgaria has second highest excess deaths after Peru (economist). So, close to herd immunity plus summer effect.
I think it’s reasonable to say it should be looked into, which it is being from what I understand, it was more the manner in which he went about it.
I was waiting for him to say he was joking but he just seemed kinda unhinged. A quick Google suggests he’s taken some flack for it too.
@Rado_N in 2 weeks, “I think I have covid”
I’m actually feeling pretty fatigued at the moment, definitely more than after the first jab. Hope it passes quickly.
Nice, can't wait to get my 2 doses so I can attach some fridge magnets to myself, it's gonna be all the style soon. Gonna put a CR7 magnet on my arse.
I’m actually feeling pretty fatigued at the moment, definitely more than after the first jab. Hope it passes quickly.
I did! It seemed like a "bit" to me and not sure if entirely serious
What did you get? Moderna hit me and my wife hard on the second one
I’m actually feeling pretty fatigued at the moment, definitely more than after the first jab. Hope it passes quickly.
@SirAF
I thought that at first but he just kept at it.
AZ, we were eligible early so got the first about 12 weeks ago before they changed the rules.
Excellent
So he was second author on a 1990 paper concerning RNA being injected into mouse muscle which resulted in protein expression?
Vaguely in the area but nothing directly to do with current mRNA vaccine development. I seriously doubt that any of the other 6 authors would claim any such thing.
As Pogue said the video itself contains utter nonsense (and I scrubbed through and the nonsense continued) and to me seems indistinguishable from conspiracy theory covidiot ramblings.
1:20: statement that the spike protein in the mRA+NA vaccine is cytotoxic and "very destructive" the "inventor" agrees with this and says he has alerted the FDA - not true
2:30 onwards: The state that the problem is that mRAN vaccines go "everywhere" and are responsible for a wide range of terrible sounding side effects - not true as mRNA vaccines don't seem to have very few severe side effects.
5:20 ish: Claim about spikes possibly cleaving due to insufficient animal testing - No evidence that there was a lack of testing or any evidence of harm occurring
After that he claims to have friends at the FDA how "know" about this stuff but are presumably ignoring it. All 3 agree that this isn't like "any other" vaccine. Not stated but presumably they are suggesting that the bad side effects that, seem only visible to them, is due to the vaccine being "different" which seems to be unsupportable nonsense. We then head off into loopy shit suggesting that the vaccines causes babies to be born with their head spilt in half and the information is being suppressed. They then start saying that even if 50% of what they say is right it "is alarming" and something should be done as "we are in danger" - argument after argument build on a false premise and other false arguments. Nor so much arguments built on a foundation of quicksand but rather a foundation of diarrhea.
Listening in more detail showed it to be far far worse than I first through. I also didn't ignore any argument they made so they made not a single supportable point.
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Ramblings of disagreements and ad hominem attack. Could you supply the data that shows the protein does not go around the body or is cytotoxic. im sorry but wibble of redcafe Saying not true isn't all that convincing. You discredit his achievments and virology background is yours greater? Is their data flawed? - that's what they are using not mearly saying something is true or not true. They have had the vaccine so calling them like anti vaxxers is plainly ridiculous. If you want me to take your response seriously try not to attack the messenger it's a weary trope. Data please - I find their data a bit worrying.
There is zero evidence of toxicity much less cytotoxicity. I'm not saying it but the evidence is.
https://www.politifact.com/factchec...n-covid-19-vaccines-spike-protein-toxic-or-c/
Why would you think a vaccine being distributed around the body was a problem anyway? The whole video is unsupported statements so it is ironic you ask for evidence.
And I'm not attacking you for being misled by such rubbish. I just find it sad that such rubbish leads people astray.
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Thanks, I understand but I'm not led astray and I don't feel attacked. I'm looking at the data from the Japanese and these scientist interpretations and I am worried. I may well not need be but this is exactly why I posted to see if the data could be interpreted different or it didn't matter. Do you not think we track adverse events and do huge safety studies to look for possible issues just like this?
On the subject of the vaccine being distributed around the body that's not what they actually said it was the spike protein was distributed around the body which could be an issue especially as the vaccine makers said it wouldn't in their submissions - (according to the podcast). Thanks for the link hopefully that is true that seems to be crux of the argument - if its not toxic there should not be a problem.
Can you tell me what this article is supposed to prove?
Rest of the article is just posturing (much like the bulk of the lab leak articles), but this is interesting:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/06/15/lab-leak-theory-doesnt-hold-up-covid-china/
From a comedic point of view I could see what he was doing, from a logic point of view, he’s not wrong. I think the problem is that people really look up to him as a bit of a grounded, wise head with rational takes on things so it was disappointing to see him mouthing off like a Fox News commentator.
That is interesting. Convincing too.
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It’s really fascinating how aggressively the Delta variant took off in the UK but doesn’t seem to be doing the same in Ireland.
Latest update.
Can anyone think of a reason why we’re seeing a different pattern in different countries?
Latest update.
Does anyone know if this pattern is the same throughout Europe?
Can anyone think of a reason why we’re seeing a different pattern in different countries?
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India very close to herd immunity.
Would it be primarily due to the huge population of South Asian descent in the UK? Not in terms of genetics or anything, but general back-and-forth connections.
That's what I would have thought, plus these were the communities vaccine programmes were most struggling to connect with.
UK has a significant Indian community that brought the variant back when visiting family. These communities tend towards multi-generational living. There was an article on the BBC that featured an Indian lad who said they were coming back through Turkey to avoid quarantine rules. The UK starting opening up a fair bit before Ireland which had one of the strictest lockdowns in Europe. In England at least a lot of people seem to think that Covid is over now and the number of people wearing masks is decreasing massively. The young population in the UK has been partying for a couple of months. That's my guess anyway.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56984057
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Interesting graphic but this article does suggest the spike protein gets in the cells and is the reason for the risk of blood clot (which remember when it was first found was called fake news). Now they have a fix it has been accepted as a 'rare' risk.
https://www.ft.com/content/f76eb802-ec05-4461-9956-b250115d0577
If what happened in the Uk is all about travellers from India and their immediate contacts that would be pretty encouraging. As this might mean the increased transmissibility is being overstated.
The young people in Ireland have been partying pretty hard over the last couple of months too. They haven’t been able to hang out inside pubs/clubs but have been socialising like crazy by other means. I’m not too clued in on Uk reopening dates though. When did you start allowing indoor pubs/clubs to open?
Pubs are back indoors - rule of six, track and trace etc... but clubs are still shut until July 19th at the earliest. outdoor rave season is upon again though so plenty of younglings out and about now.
Not by scientists. They paused the AZ rollout while countries were desperate to get vaccines into arms because of those clots. That’s not something that happens because of fake news.
The link below details reopening in the UK. BBC also reported that in the initial hotspots there was a low instance of WFH. The numbers in the initial hotspots are now starting to recede.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-2021/covid-19-response-spring-2021-summary
When did that happen? I’m wondering if the Delta took off beforehand (i.e. when restrictions same as Ireland is now).
Also super curious about what’s going on with that variant in the rest of Europe.
Anyone?
17th May for pubs indoors. A lot of the increase was already happening but I'm sure that didn't reduce contacts. Although reports are most incidence of infection are in the 5-12 and teens category while hospital admissions and deaths are in the older category with around 40% having 1 or 2 doses of the vaccine.
Would you not call WHO scientists?
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...-no-blood-clot-link-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine
Isn't it also the case that in the UK we know much better which variants are going around? I remember last year that Wales were doing more genomic sequencing in a week than France were doing in a year. Not sure how well the other countries have caught up now.
Read the article and their statement, at no point did WHO call it fake news
If i'm not wrong, we (India) had similar results during/just after the first wave last year.
Well with the mRNA vaccine I thought that was the point. The spike protein is made within the cell and it then sits on the outside (forgive my poor biology) before being neutralised by the immune system. It seems very small amounts of the spike protein make there way into the blood stream but these levels quickly fall to zero. The point being actual Covid infection will produce many times higher levels of these spike proteins...so in terms of the vaccine I just don't see what the mechanism here is to damage organs etc.
About 1% of cases in Italy. There have been around 100 confirmed Delta variant cases in Italy to date, although numbers may be higher as far less sequencing is done here than in the UK.
We expect the quarantine requirement to be reimposed soon for travellers from the UK - the PM has already made some comments about it.
The WHO said the vaccine did not cause blood clots. It does. What point are you making?