SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I just do not agree with it. How does it help to educate anti-vaxxers? It just risks making them more distrustful and more likely to believe other conspiracies.
You don't need to be vaccinated to get the pass. You can do a test every 48 hours. They will be free for anybody who can't get the vaccine, and those who choose not to will pay a maximum of 15 euros.
We've had plenty of carrot here with education campaigns. Now it's time for the stick. It's no longer about educating the anti-vaxxers, it's about removing them from society. I've little issue with that.
Yes, "remove them from society" because they disagree with you
.They don't disagree with anyone, this isn't an opinion this about them being a danger to society. Some will have genuine reasons not to get Vaxed but many have nome beyond hearsay, anecdotal evidence and false science.Yes, "remove them from society" because they disagree with you
It's not really a case of disagreeing with just me, is it?Yes, "remove them from society" because they disagree with you
Un-vaccinated people can still go into work, they just need to prove they are not carrying Covid.
Do Covid passes require you to have had the vaccine though? Or just a recent negative PCR test?
Vaccine, test within the last 48 hours, or recently recovered from Covid, I think in the last 6 months but could be wrong.
That's not a bad approach. One way or another it asks everyone to cooperate for the common good, and keeps the focus on health and infection control.
Putting all the focus onto the vaccine can actually rally up resistance, whereas what you want to do is push the hesitant (and the indifferent) and isolate the actual anti-vaxxers.
It’s not about disagreeing with any one person, and the “remove them from society” comment was unnecessarily harsh, but I don’t disagree with freedom of movement being dependent on Covid vaccination status or a negative test result.Yes, "remove them from society" because they disagree with you
It’s about willingly opposing science to the detriment of the society which will still have your back if you get sick, and putting those around you at risk because you know more than the entire science community.
At what point can a society expect something back from its citizens? Isn’t the entire point of a society that people have rights but also obligations? And if they do indeed have obligations, when do they come into play if not in a global health crisis? I mean, it’s not as if all the people drafted to participate in war were like “wohooo get the feck in there”. They did what was their duty at the time, regardless of what they thought of it, and if they didn’t they were convicted for desertion. Nowadays, the punishment for not doing what society has decided is one’s obligation isn’t a prison sentence, but a 15€ fine every two days (cost of PCR test) and people think that’s oppressive.
Get the feck out.
What are you even talking about. What has participation in a war got to do with anything? We are already at nearly 90% uptake for the first dose vaccine:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833
What exactly is the point of rolling out a vaccine passport when the overwhelming majority of people have already taken some form of action?
Another question is how many of the remaining 10% are actually anti-vaccine?What are you even talking about. What has participation in a war got to do with anything? We are already at nearly 90% uptake for the first dose vaccine:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833
What exactly is the point of rolling out a vaccine passport when the overwhelming majority of people have already taken some form of action?
feck me you’d have been fun during enlistment.
If 90% had just cracked on and gone to war you’d be over the fecking moon at the response, not cracking the whip like a fecking psychopath trying to find the feckers who need punishing for being terrified of war or other psychological issues for wanting to sidestep it.90% so far are ”doing their bit”, a decent percentage of the remaining likely can’t, else have genuine reasons for not doing so, such as previous bad experiences with medicines or false diagnosis etc.
But hey man, crack the whip and ensure for the rest of time that 90%+ that extra 3-4 percent get that fecking jab in them, it’ll make all the difference.
So many acting like a bunch of psychopaths over this. I very much doubt the “feck you cnuts, do it or feck off and get fined every day” is ever going to be a helpful way to live or to change the opinion of a tiny percentage.
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Someone has managed to get a paper published arguing that
...
covid came from space
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7358766/
(for the record, this is beyond silly and makes zero sense genetically)
...
covid came from space
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7358766/
(for the record, this is beyond silly and makes zero sense genetically)
It was suggested a couple of weeks ago that this would happen. The argument is that if some people have to be vaccinated at work, then it's fair for everyone to be vaccinated at work. I'm also in favour of it, as long as people with medical exemptions can be properly identified and not discriminated against.
Then the majority can go to work. Work places have a responsibility for their workers too.What are you even talking about. What has participation in a war got to do with anything? We are already at nearly 90% uptake for the first dose vaccine:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55274833
What exactly is the point of rolling out a vaccine passport when the overwhelming majority of people have already taken some form of action?
anti-vaxxers can still get a pass if they come through covid
Ireland doing away with “close contact” at end of the month. Looks like they can’t handle the scale of kids getting tested in flu season
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Interesting thread on possible origins. I had no idea there were so many of these CoVs trying to jump to people all the time.
..cleavage
So you support an idea to enforce a scheme in the UK which encourages people to have a vaccination, even though most of those people have already had a vaccination. I cannot see how that is an effective way to spend our time, money and effort in the UK.
I’m speaking hypothetically because we all know BoJo manages by reading daily mail headlines so it’s not going to come to pass
Schools going back and return of fans at grounds doesn’t seem to be driving up infections
Uptake doubled in NL as soon as they announced the passport
And what is the point here? The previous discussion was about the UK.
Yeah, I'd say if anything, that's probably my favourite part of a virus. Just don't get too close so they can see you looking at it.
One of the things I have learn over the past year is humans are constantly getting infected with diseases from animals, but either they are farmers not coming into regular contact with others, or it’s not capable of human to human transmission
In ireland they are so overwhelmed by tests of kids they are talking about giving up on the whole ‘close contact’ process.
the problem is that with the return to school coinciding with a flI/cold also doing the rounds it’s hard to say what’s what.
So no tests = a fall in any positives
Will make it hard to make any proper decisions if a big chunk of data is removed
Do you have the LFT home fast tests for school kids? Or does everything rely on PCR testing?
I think everything is done via PCR (could be wrong)
My country (Bermuda) is now the current world leader in covid - over 1 in 50 people are currently infected, and our hospital (we have 1) is at its highest emergency level. We're also at about 68% vaccinated.
And yet, half the country is arguing about Ivermectin and claiming vaccines don't prevent hospitalisations and death. Or that ones natural immune system is the only way.
I don't even know how to deal with it anymore.
And yet, half the country is arguing about Ivermectin and claiming vaccines don't prevent hospitalisations and death. Or that ones natural immune system is the only way.
I don't even know how to deal with it anymore.
I do not think I will ever understand how those people can simultaneously be against vaccinations but in favour of using Ivermectin for Covid.
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I am fuming here. What the feck is this? Many of these countries like Nigeria have administered the UK vaccine. My parents were planning on coming over for a few weeks but now rethinking because they don't fancy a 10 day quarantine. They have had two doses of the Az vaccine.
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Brutally, it's discrimination masquerading as public health policy.
In theory is supposed to deal with the idea that some countries are less cautious than others about people getting plausible looking vaccine documentation - corruption and fraud as elements. However, the rules don't apply to the US, whose CDC form is easy to copy (and is being sold online)
If they were really concerned about document validity and infection control, they'd give people the option for a bloodtest on arrival and look for antibodies. Admittedly that might only work for the next few months (until antibodies wane) but then just how long are we planning on keeping people out for?
I hope these countries reciprocate. It's bullshit. My sister in America has told me she knows for a fact people are using fakes.
For feck sake. My brother hasn’t been home from Thailand for over two years. He made sure he waited to get the AZ jab so the UK government wouldn’t have any reason to treat him differently when he comes home. He was planning to come home at Christmas for 2 weeks and this is going to make it next to pointless.
It's a mess and it's a long time since the UK was connecting rules to case numbers, vaccination rates or any kind of factual reasoning. It's all about politics now and playing up to voters. How could we trust Johnny Foreigner to vaccinate properly?! But we need the money from Europe and we're desperate for Biden not to kick us off his lap.
The daftest rule of the lot is the removal of pre departure tests and the change to LFT day 2 tests. Fill a plane with Covid positive people and then let them loose in society. If anything they should have kept the pre departure test and dropped the day 2 entirely.
I don’t know how widely AZ is still used but surely the UK are now going to be bottom of the list of producers these countries will be looking to buy from?
Yep, there's nothing straightforward about vaccine passports and international travel.
There's very little unanimity on how they'll operate. The EU pass and equivalence agreements seemed to offer a way forward, but that doesn't resolve the issue for most of Africa, Asia, South America. Inevitably, the UK and EU are still haggling over the details of equivalence (the UK wants trialists recognised
for example, and has different rules for under 18s, some EU countries want single dose + prior infection as course completion - whereas the UK has only just got round to accepting brand mix and match doses.)At any rate not easy and in global terms, not fair. But then I could use that phrase to describe the entire pandemic and the whole vaccination rollout.