What I'm saying is that beyond their potential level, which can be high in certain games, their career moves have shown the level of motivation these guys have. Strongly doubt they'd have it in them to perform over an entire PL season.
Saudi League thread
- Thread starter shamans
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) chats to author, Dan Williamson, about his new book 'If I Hadnt Seen Such Riches' which chronicles our 1990/91 European Cup Winners Cup victory, which is a trip down memory lane for those old enough to remember it and a vital history lesson for those who don't.
Think that's daft really. It was a one off game.
Exactly this, they have beaten one less motivated European side and somehow this means they are world beaters and the league is a powerhouse?!?
Football fans love knee jerk reactions.
Its like when a lower league club goes far in the cup competitions beating one of the big boys... that doesn't mean they can compete in the PL.
Al Hilal would struggle to get top 8 in the PL.
Yep. Botafogo beat treble winning PSG 1-0 but we aren't seriously suggesting they could be a top 5 or 6 PL side.
To be honest, I was surprised watching the highlights at how many very recognisable quality players they had. Mercenary players yes, but not actually completely over the hill mercenary players on a last pay cheque.
I would say they are more at the level of a Europa League challenger than Champions League challenger, but then actually they have quite a few better players (in my opinion) than in Inter's first 11 from last season.
(To clarify, I'm not actually suggesting they would get to the CL final, but just the result against City wasn't actually as surprising as I thought having seen their team)
I would say they are more at the level of a Europa League challenger than Champions League challenger, but then actually they have quite a few better players (in my opinion) than in Inter's first 11 from last season.
(To clarify, I'm not actually suggesting they would get to the CL final, but just the result against City wasn't actually as surprising as I thought having seen their team)
It's based more on the quality of players than the one off game. They were also very good against Real Madrid for what its worth.
But even on papaer and just my opinion but...
Bonou > Onana.
Cancelo > Mazouri,
I'd take a partnership of aging Koulibably and Martinez.
Left back is closer but currently I'd plump for Lodi.
There's literaly no argument for not taking Neves and Milinkovic Savic over anything at United with probably Bruno making a 3.
Theres an argument for Malcolm over Amad who is not even first choice for United in the front a lot of the time.
Mitrovic is a better 9 than Rasmus
And while I'd take Garnachos talent on the left, his attitude is debateable.
By my count thats 7 or 8 Al Hilal players for sure.
If you think the top 5 or 6 in PL comment is silly. Their team is easily on a par with Villa, Forest, Brighton on paper alone.. Even their Saudi players are of pretty decent quality in Al Dawsari and Kanno. They're easily about that level.
---------------------------------Bonou--------------------------------
Cancelo------Koulibaly--------Kanno---------------Lodi
--------------------------------Neves---------------------------------
-------------------M Savic-----------Al Dawsari---------------
Malcolm-------------------------------------------Al Dawsari
------------------------------Mitrovic--------------------------------
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Why are you comparing them to a team that finished 15th?
Newcastle and Villa who finished 5th and 6th in the league would have more points than them in a full PL season because they both have better squads.
Koulibaly and Cancelo were dreadful in their last PL seasons and Mitrovic has only had one good PL season.
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r/cristianoronaldo is using the city result as proof that Ronaldo joined a world class league that rivals the top leagues in Europe
I thought at first you were on replying to me saying that they would have 7 or 8 players who'd start for United. We also know the United are not as bad as their performance, its a squad that was top 8 right up to last season and didn't change drastically. No one would expect them to finish near 16th again but closer to 8-10th and they are vastly weaker than Al Hilal.
While squad depth would be an issue, the Saudi players are nowhere near as bad as people like to think they are. The literally beat the world cup winners last time out and deserved a lot more against Poland. They'd absolutely be in the mix with those teams.
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Truly sickening how Martinez Samuel has lapped this up, whilst effectively absolving City of any blame. That man has no shame and is just a mouthpiece for the highest bidder.
Not forgetting their bench is very average. One poster above suggested they have a better starting 11 than Inter Milan... It is beyond ridiculous to compare them to a team that plays 60 games in Europe every season using over 15 players in more than 30 games to Al-Hilal.
Even if a combined starting 11 of United Hilal would theoretically feature more players from their squad, then the entire bench would be from our squad. And it matters in a season before asserting they might get top 5 in the PL.
6 teams from Asia have already qualified for the next WC and Saudi Arabia is not among them…. They are going to need to go through another round.
Is it somehow Cities fault the Al Hilal have a decent team, what am I missing here?
It's more a reflection of how bad City are that they lost. City of a few years ago win this game comfortably.
It's a nonsensical argument to say that squad of players would be top 5/6 in the Premier League. You can't build a competitive squad with sixteen Saudi Arabian players and nine decent to midling European players!
I think you might be getting me confused with someone else. I never mentioned United. My comment about it being daft was in relation to you saying they'd finish 5th or 6th in the PL.
I don't think they're very good at all hence why the overwhelming majority of them still play in Saudi Arabia.
And with 2 rounds to go Brazil are in danger of not qualifying in South America.. That doesn't mean the players aren't decent. Also I hugely agree most the bench would be Uniteds for what its worth, but if they can 35 or so games out of their big players it won't matter
Samuel was on his constant crusade and blaming the PL for an outflux of ‘talent’ to SA because of financial constraints.
Reflection on Madrid too that they had it tough with them?
It is absolutely Cities fault, City are out. Because City are the better team and squad no doubt. But I still don't see any absolving of City the blame for losing the game. They've been torn apart right for being defensively incompetent and way too open.
There are about 4 names there that are on the team sheet each and every week for bottom half PL sides, and they would be playing in a league where every other team has players that walk into their eleven.
There is no chance they would be in the European places.
I mean, this is just wrong. De Ligt, Mazrouai, Yoro, Shaw, Martinez, Maguire, Dalot are all better than anything they have. Only Cancelo joins that club, with 34 year old Kouibaly not even close.
Neves and Savic are fine players, nothing special. They certainly wouldn’t be targets at this stage of their careers.
Amad, Cunha, Mbeumo, Bruno, Garnacho and even Zirkzee are all better than anything they can offer in attack. Mitrovic was never prolific even at his peak.
So, three outfield players, none of which would be viable transfer targets in 2025…for a team that finished 15th and only added two players.
You are usually a very good poster, but you are way, way off with this one.
There is no chance they would be in the European places.
I mean, this is just wrong. De Ligt, Mazrouai, Yoro, Shaw, Martinez, Maguire, Dalot are all better than anything they have. Only Cancelo joins that club, with 34 year old Kouibaly not even close.
Neves and Savic are fine players, nothing special. They certainly wouldn’t be targets at this stage of their careers.
Amad, Cunha, Mbeumo, Bruno, Garnacho and even Zirkzee are all better than anything they can offer in attack. Mitrovic was never prolific even at his peak.
So, three outfield players, none of which would be viable transfer targets in 2025…for a team that finished 15th and only added two players.
You are usually a very good poster, but you are way, way off with this one.
Ah I get ya now. Misunderstood originally. I don't like Samuel for what it's worth. I feel like he's one of those people who likes to go against the majority for the sake of it.
That’s a very good take. He actually got me banned from the Times comment section because I and many others disagreed with one such appalling opinion piece that made no logical sense. Very fragile.
Ruben Neves is 28. 95% of the teams in Europe would start him. Mil-Savic is 30. The only squads I think would potentially say no to him is Real Madrid and PSG (cause they are stacked).
I will say I wan't accounting for Cunha, Mbeumo etc.. basing it on last years team.
I hugely disagree on the fullbacks though I'd have Cancelo and Lodi over yours and its not even that close imho. You guys have potential in Dorgu. But Dalot and current Shaw are not as good as Cancelo and Lodi.
Being generous and at push I'd give you guys Martinez, De Ligt (I genuinely forgot about him), Garnacho, Bruno and Amad. But Amad I'd still be on the fence about as he's in and out of your team too much.
The PL is super tight and I just think they're another team who'd be right in the mix for the CL places (assuming the CL is 5 places). What they lack in depth they more than have in terms of ability with their best 11 on the pitch. Maybe the depth would catch them out, but I also think their bench is not nealry as terrible as people think.
I just think you are way off with some of those evaluations. You are massively overrating their midfield two, who have achieved nothing at club level, while dropping young talents at United who have played and scored in cup finals.
Koulibaly was finished in the PL 3 years ago and had an awful time. A fit Shaw is on a whole other level to Lodi as a player. The United defence, in terms of quality and depth, is on a whole other level.
They have a few decent-good players and the rest isn’t up to standard.
If teams like United and Spurs get annihilated over a season, that team would get absolutely destroyed on a weekly basis.
Al Hilal won 31 out of 34 games the season before last in the Saudi league, unbeaten. Not as good last season but they’ve been winning lots of games the past few years and that gives a team confidence. Newcastle have several players that really aren't anything special, but they're a good team and it works for them. Fairly sure Al-Hilal would beat United easily for that reason. People make sweeping statements all the time about the quality of leagues and teams based on a handful of games in European competitions, so it's only fair to give Al-Hilal their dues when they have showed up big time for this one.
Koulibaly had one season for Chelsea and flopped, doesn't mean he's "finished" in the PL. Players do badly when they move to different leagues, countries and clubs - just look at the dozens of examples at United over the last while.
Mitrovic has 51 goals in 67 games for Serbia since 2018, 43 in 44 in the Championship is no mean feat and he was really good that season in the PL before he moved, I'm sure there would have been plenty of European chasing teams available if he was around. And Cancelo was playing for Barcelona in La Liga last season.
Botafogo beat the treble winners PSG yet nobody is suggesting they would finish 5th or 6th in the PL because it's bonkers.
Literally no one is saying this...
The mere fact they are actually competitive speaks volumes of how much they improved over short period of time. I don't think it matters if they would be 15th or 12th in the Premier League.
However, I don't really get what their overal goal is, as they will never get that league to be watched, it is simply like that. I never watched a single game nor would I, I simply see no point and don't see what would drive me to it.
Say Al-Hilal dominates the rest of the Club World Cup and wins the title as dominantly as PSG did in Champions League, it still would give me no appeal to watch the league next season.
However, I don't really get what their overal goal is, as they will never get that league to be watched, it is simply like that. I never watched a single game nor would I, I simply see no point and don't see what would drive me to it.
Say Al-Hilal dominates the rest of the Club World Cup and wins the title as dominantly as PSG did in Champions League, it still would give me no appeal to watch the league next season.
I don't think 5th or 6th is that outlandish for a lot of teams tbh, a good team getting 60 odd points is very different to a title challenge. United got 6th a few years back even though they didn't win 58% of their games.
There is no Brazilian team that is getting 60+ points in the PL. Their best players are going to the likes of West Ham and Wolves in 2025. It’s not disrespectful to merely outline the difference in how clubs are operating in 2025.
I don't know if you saw the PSG-Botafogo match but it was flukey which might explain why no one mentions it. They had one good chance, took it and then sat back for the rest of the game. They then went on to lose to Atletico Madrid scrapping through the group stage and then lost to Palmeiras in R16.
AlHilal have surprised me actually. I thought they would be soundly beaten by Real but they outplayed them and should've won if they took their chances, I thought that might have been a one off but then they went on to comfortably qualify through their group and have now just beaten the most inform team of the tournament.
I think the Saudi league getting an elite coach like Inzaghi is big. It's not just about throwing money at players. If you look at the PL historically the big jumps in quality have coincided with having elite coaches (Wenger, SAF, Mourinho in 90s/00s, Guardiola and Klopp between 17-24). Between 09-16 the premier league struggled with German and Spanish teams dominating.
Hmmm. 
Fair play to Fluminense for beating a top 5/6 Premier League team.
Already beaten a top 2 Champions league team…
But they will go out to Chelsea on Tuesday
Why are you assuming that Chelsea will beat Palmeiras? Have you forgotten Chelsea's loss to Flamengo?
Weird, thought Al Hilal were world beaters and they were better than Real Madrid....guess the Brazilian league is better after all.
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Gone very quiet now.
Duran leaves whichever Arab club he joined after less than a year having scored a hatful. Weird, perhaps Cristiano doesn't like him?
27 years old French international throwing away his career…
That's crazy, had no idea he was 27. I thought he was 30/31.
I don't watch him extensively but every time I see him for Milan, he looks a real threat even from LB.
I think we will actually see more and more of this. The wages being offered are ridiculous, it is hard to turn that sort of money down, especially if more and more players go and the competition continues to improve. In the CWC Al Hilal showed that they were at a ok level, four more years of development and buying good players will increase the level significantly.