Saudi sports minister gives update on buying club from Glazers

Adnan

Talent Spotter
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
29,891
Location
England
Good on him.

That this story refuses to die is no minor concern. The Glazer takeover began the same way, with slight murmurings in the press that no one took seriously.

Then it happened :(
You're spot on.

The glazer takeover news started filtering through in 2003 and they eventually bought the club in 2005.
 

alanjohnson

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Messages
611
people saying 'no thanks, ill trust the devil i know' ...
were the Qataris and Emiratis good for psg and city or bad?

Also, and i'm not defending the saudi royal family outright, but they are the lesser of far worse evils. Imagine that country without house saud..it would no longer be a country..just a disaster zone, think Syria x10.

Now IF their current policy is to modernise the culture of the country and turn it more 'secular', that's a good thing. Their intention to buy a football club isnt to make money, it's to grow sports esp football in their country and the region.
 

mariachi-19

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
18,616
Location
I may be the devil, but i'm not a monster
What is more than likely going to happen is that Saudi Arabia will become joint owners or form some partnership with the Glazers. I very much doubt they're stupid enough to invest in a club and team where there is significant risk of backlash in regards to fan approval on their ownership. This is no different to the Qatari's and Emiraties with regards to Barcelona and Real. While United is a private company unlike the other two, the good will attracted to all three brands is significant in terms of net affect it has on the value of each company.
 

Halftrack

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
3,950
Location
Chair
About the human rights thing, there are several fair courts before somebody was sentenced to dead, and stats wise its lower than another country who has similar dead penalty. But the media always frame the news about the kingdom is barbaric because they are too stubborn to change the laws that didn't suit western culture. I might be wrong, but I saw what I saw, you can leave your car unlock anywhere because no one would stole it, its hard to find robbery or criminals in public. They have their own laws on their land, and you have to respect that, no one would harm you if you follow the rules.
The conversation of their International politic is also very bias here, regarding the US and Nato are behind their International policy. At least until there are no oil fields to be exploited, because the whole modern world depends on that energy today.

I hate to talk about politics, but I read a lot of bias comments here. Saudi, US, and Nato are all on the same boat, so lets stop to talk about this propaganda none sense.
They execute people for being gay! Feck bias, they deserve their shitty reputation.
 

Zed 101

Full Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
1,451
If you take the time to look into many of the foreign owners you will find distasteful things, you tend not to become a billionaire by being a philanthropist, that said there are degrees of bad.

If this is serious part of me will be appalled, human rights issues aside I have always held the smug upperhand of Utd not being bank rolled by their owners, however it would be nice if the infrastructure of the club was reinvigorated and Utd could keep the profits in the club, something which will not happen under the Glazers.

My hope would be (having listened to some of the reports from Saudi) that there is a movement towards a more tolerant, inclusive society, if forming closer bonds with westerners helps nurture this then how can it be a bad thing.
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,478
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
It is pretty clear that the Saudi regime is gradually looking to modernise. They are far from stupid and they are very well aware that they have to position their country for a future with less reliance on oil.
They will be looking for a flagship sporting organisation to help with their image worldwide, simply to Emirates.
What better organisation than Manchester United to transform their image.
 

RedDevilRoshi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2017
Messages
13,268
What is more than likely going to happen is that Saudi Arabia will become joint owners or form some partnership with the Glazers. I very much doubt they're stupid enough to invest in a club and team where there is significant risk of backlash in regards to fan approval on their ownership. This is no different to the Qatari's and Emiraties with regards to Barcelona and Real. While United is a private company unlike the other two, the good will attracted to all three brands is significant in terms of net affect it has on the value of each company.
I doubt that tbh. I can’t see the Glazers willing to share their power. They will only give up their power when they decide to sell to the biggest bidder which unfortunately at present, looks like it will be the Saudi’s.

The Saudi’s won’t give a monkeys what majority of fans would feel about them taking over, far from it. If they want to buy the club then that’s all that matters as I’d imagine the sort of money the greedy a******* Glazers would want is mostly peanuts to those Saudi’s.

I think there was way more of a backlash to the Glazers taking over 10-12 years ago than this potential Saudi takeover. That fan backlash didn’t stop the Glazers and any sort of fan backlash certainly will not stop the Saudi’s. Some fans seem very happy for the Saudi’s to take over. Sad, but it’s the truth.
 
Last edited:

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
25,631
Location
Sydney
I only read the OP when this started, as seemed like a non-story. How on earth did we get to 13 pages lads?
 

stepic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Messages
8,672
Location
London
What’s the rationale for closing all the other Saudi threads because they were based on nothing but BS rumours and keeping this Saudi thread open which was based on nothing but a BS rumour?
 

Marcelinho87

Full Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
7,229
Location
Barnsley
What’s the rationale for closing all the other Saudi threads because they were based on nothing but BS rumours and keeping this Saudi thread open which was based on nothing but a BS rumour?
Because this rumour was started from a direct member of the Royal Family I would assume? Either way no smoke without fire and this doesn't seem to be dying down does it?
 

Catt

Ole's at the wheel!
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
27,773
Location
Norway
What’s the rationale for closing all the other Saudi threads because they were based on nothing but BS rumours and keeping this Saudi thread open which was based on nothing but a BS rumour?
People keep creating new ones.
 

DartMaverick

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
18
Supports
ManUtd
Save us, please, you are our only hope, Mohammed bin Salman al Saud!
 

DartMaverick

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
18
Supports
ManUtd
Maybe in 2013-2015 it would be enough, but now to get out of this shit we need much more, we need money, we need passion and desire to win from the owners and management, we need power and influence, we need sports and even political aggression
 

Yakuza_devils

Full Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
2,902
We actually don't need Saudi billions to save the club. What we need is proper football people and structure at the club to reform and bring us into modern era.

Sadly, Glazers/Ed are cnuts investors and bankers who only care about money and nothing else. They should be at Wall Street and not Man Utd.

Hence, we are left without choice but pray for a takeover. Middle Eastern onwers (City and PSG) have shown they are good in commercial as well as football management of the club unlike Glazers.

Glazers have stolen 1 bil from the club and hope the Saudis are successful in buying us over to stop the leech.
 

L1nk

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
5,092
We actually don't need Saudi billions to save the club. What we need is proper football people and structure at the club to reform and bring us into modern era.

Sadly, Glazers/Ed are cnuts investors and bankers who only care about money and nothing else. They should be at Wall Street and not Man Utd.

Hence, we are left without choice but pray for a takeover. Middle Eastern onwers (City and PSG) have shown they are good in commercial as well as football management of the club unlike Glazers.

Glazers have stolen 1 bil from the club and hope the Saudis are successful in buying us over to stop the leech.
Rather the club liquidated than become a propaganda machine for the Saudis to be honest.
 

TrustInOle

Full Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
2,467
Location
Manchester
Rather the club liquidated than become a propaganda machine for the Saudis to be honest.
Not advocating a take over in any way, but what can be seen as a 'propaganda machine' could also be a country, nation that either A/ want to change or B/ will change in time from being in such a public front. Not everything has to be viewed as a negative proposition, and maybe being associated with a brand as worldwide as United may have a positive impact on the coutry going forward.
 

UDontMessWith24

Full Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Messages
4,023
If this happens, do we get a thread for the morals and ethics committee to update us on what they’re doing on match day instead of watching United?
 

Red_toad

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
11,616
Location
DownUnder
Rather the club liquidated than become a propaganda machine for the Saudis to be honest.
You’re entitled to your opinion. But love my club regardless of who owns it. Saudis don’t need United for propaganda, everyone buys their oil, that’s all they need.
 

dabeast

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
344
Manchester United’s current P/E ratio is around 190, implying that any investment in it will yield 0.5% in earnings. A rational investor therefore only has appreciation of the club’s valuation or dividends from the club’s operations to rely on to make up the gap with the price of their capital which is far more.

The Glazers knew this when they bought the club and expected the valuation to go up but planned to finance it from the dividends. This strategy has resulted in footballing wilderness. With the club now approaching mediocrity for 7 years, there is a real possibility that a generation of football fans will grow up without United at the top and the valuation and the operating revenue will fall substantially.

It is not surprising that the Glazers have taken a 700 mn investment which became 4 bn and used the proceeds to finance the cost of capital. However, if the club is unlikely to appreciate at this level of investment, investing in United is irrational. The only entity who could and should is one who has the resources to fund a multi billion dollar business to grow without commensurate economic returns but motivated by a non-financial benefit. Unfortunately, there are very few of those and, as Jim Ratliffe pointed out, these stock market valuations based on a small minority of shares might not be rational - no one has ever paid billions of pounds for a football club.


#GlazersOut #SaudisIn
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Fortitude

Jibbs

New Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
2,238
Manchester United’s current P/E ratio is around 190, implying that any investment in it will yield 0.5% in earnings. A rational investor therefore only has appreciation of the club’s valuation or dividends from the club’s operations to rely on to make up the gap with the price of their capital which is far more.

The Glazers knew this when they bought the club and expected the valuation to go up but planned to finance it from the dividends. This strategy has resulted in footballing wilderness. With the club now approaching mediocrity for 7 years, there is a real possibility that a generation of football fans will grow up without United at the top and the valuation and the operating revenue will fall substantially.

It is not surprising that the Glazers have taken a 700 mn investment which became 4 bn and used the proceeds to finance the cost of capital. However, if the club is unlikely to appreciate at this level of investment, investing in United is irrational. The only entity who could and should is one who has the resources to fund a multi billion dollar business to grow without commensurate economic returns but motivated by a non-financial benefit. Unfortunately, there are very few of those and, as Jim Ratliffe pointed out, these stock market valuations based on a small minority of shares might not be rational, no one has ever paid billions of pounds for a football club.


#GlazersOut #SaudisIn
Best comment of the thread.
 

Florida Man

Cartoon expert and crap superhero
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
13,911
Location
Florida, man
Rather the club liquidated than become a propaganda machine for the Saudis to be honest.
We're already a propaganda machine for a bunch of cnuts. Might as well be a successful one. You don't think billionaires like the Glazers don't have their part to play in American-led geopolitics? You don't think the profits of United transfer to Glazer bank accounts which transfer to people like Trump and other shady politicians who are in charge of a country that has done more nasty things than Saudi Arabia? Same shit with extra steps.

Also, Saudi Arabia is actually moving to modernizing their country and culture. Not gonna happen overnight, but they are working on it. Don't believe everything western media says about them.
 

simonhch

Horrible boss
Joined
Aug 17, 2010
Messages
14,477
Location
Seventh Heaven
Supports
Urban Combat Preparedness
Manchester United’s current P/E ratio is around 190, implying that any investment in it will yield 0.5% in earnings. A rational investor therefore only has appreciation of the club’s valuation or dividends from the club’s operations to rely on to make up the gap with the price of their capital which is far more.

The Glazers knew this when they bought the club and expected the valuation to go up but planned to finance it from the dividends. This strategy has resulted in footballing wilderness. With the club now approaching mediocrity for 7 years, there is a real possibility that a generation of football fans will grow up without United at the top and the valuation and the operating revenue will fall substantially.

It is not surprising that the Glazers have taken a 700 mn investment which became 4 bn and used the proceeds to finance the cost of capital. However, if the club is unlikely to appreciate at this level of investment, investing in United is irrational. The only entity who could and should is one who has the resources to fund a multi billion dollar business to grow without commensurate economic returns but motivated by a non-financial benefit. Unfortunately, there are very few of those and, as Jim Ratliffe pointed out, these stock market valuations based on a small minority of shares might not be rational, no one has ever paid billions of pounds for a football club.


#GlazersOut #SaudisIn
This is a very erudite analysis, and highlights why the only prospect of a realistic buyer for the club, is a group whose strategic intent goes beyond a desire for ROI. United, as a brand, still provides a gateway to a number of international markets, and can make sense for a group looking to do an integrated expansion of a wider portfolio. There are multiple cross industry synergistic appeals, and from a branding perspective provides the opportunity for reputational rehabilitation. Hence the term “sports washing”.

All this said, there do remain opportunities for revenue growth through the proliferation of mobile broadcasting rights in emerging markets such as China; and the potential revenue boom from the creation of a long mooted European super league. My recollection of early analysis of the Glazer investment model, is that these were two of the four cornerstones essential to the long term growth of company value. The other two were (a) limiting expenses through the imposition of a salary cap, thus mitigating the greatest risk of accelerating costs I.e. player wages, and (b) the strict implementation of FFP regulations, thus suppressing the upward pressure on transfer fees brought about by the mega-rich state backed clubs. An assumption which was the basis for Woodward’s now infamous “We can do things in the market other clubs can only dream of. Watch this space.”

As we know, this latter aspiration became derailed, and the former looks unlikely to ever be ratified. Consequently, the Glazers are now facing a very real threat to their exit strategy as the club goes successive seasons without CL football. This will likely result in a 100m drop in revenues for the next annual financial results alone. All of their long term financial planning, investment strategy, and debt repayment strategy was predicated on the financial assumption that the club would, on average, achieve a QF finish in the CL every year. The lack of CL participation poses the biggest short term risk to their asset value, and something they likely never anticipated to be a long term concern. Sponsorship values will remain robust because the club has global appeal. It seems the most likely outcome that consistent failure to qualify for the CL, and the associated costs of building a squad capable of competing at the top table again, are the most likely drivers of a sale.

As painful as it is as fans to witness, it may be in our interests to sit out the CL for a couple more seasons and see the Glazers forced to sell before the asset depreciates significantly. There is a great deal of similarity to what happened to Liverpool under Hicks and Gillett. While United remain a far more robust economic entity, it still holds true that they are not immune to financial pressures. While these seem unlikely to ever threaten the survivability of the organization, they do nevertheless exist as significant drivers of potential change. In this case of ownership.

The bottom line is that the Glazers will never sell while returns are acceptable and asset value remains strong, unless they receive an offer which significantly exceeds market valuation. The sole domain of a handful of super rich or state entities. If value starts to significantly drop, such as through consistent failure to quality for the CL, and long term solutions such asa super league are effectively ruled out, then the club becomes a target for a wider group of investors, as there is growth potential in restoring it to previous glories.

I am fairly confident that these are the scenarios being weighed by the Glazers. And without being privy to the discussions of the larger European clubs, it is hard to say what the long term prospects and landscape looks like. From the outside, and a completely uninformed analysis, it would seem to me that in terms of the Glazer ownership model, the club has probably reached peak value and now would be the best time to sell. I just see too many sporting and financial challenges over the next 3-5 years; and there are considerable risks in tying an exit strategy to the rejuvenation of on field performances necessary to boost revenues. But I don’t have all the facts at my disposal, so I am just speculating.
 
Last edited:

suheilsworld

Full Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2008
Messages
3,437
Location
Abu Dhabi, UAE
Staying in UAE, I know a bit about how much the Saudis and people from Gulf love their football. They are rulers who are really invested in their clubs and it is not just a cash cow for them. I am all for Saudi taking over us and it would be for the better
 

Suedesi

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
23,873
Location
New York City
Manchester United’s current P/E ratio is around 190, implying that any investment in it will yield 0.5% in earnings. A rational investor therefore only has appreciation of the club’s valuation or dividends from the club’s operations to rely on to make up the gap with the price of their capital which is far more.

The Glazers knew this when they bought the club and expected the valuation to go up but planned to finance it from the dividends. This strategy has resulted in footballing wilderness. With the club now approaching mediocrity for 7 years, there is a real possibility that a generation of football fans will grow up without United at the top and the valuation and the operating revenue will fall substantially.

It is not surprising that the Glazers have taken a 700 mn investment which became 4 bn and used the proceeds to finance the cost of capital. However, if the club is unlikely to appreciate at this level of investment, investing in United is irrational. The only entity who could and should is one who has the resources to fund a multi billion dollar business to grow without commensurate economic returns but motivated by a non-financial benefit. Unfortunately, there are very few of those and, as Jim Ratliffe pointed out, these stock market valuations based on a small minority of shares might not be rational, no one has ever paid billions of pounds for a football club.


#GlazersOut #SaudisIn

Man Utd:US New York
Manchester United Plc

18.99 USD-0.73-3.70%
Open 19.60Prev Close 19.72Volume 153,008
Market Cap 3.125BDay Range 18.98 - 19.6052 Week Range 15.30 - 21.92

Key Statistics

P/E Ratio34.891 Year Return0.63%
PEGY Ratio29.619830 Day Avg Volume62,229
Shares Outstanding40.57MEPS0.41
Price to Book Ratio1.4294Dividend0.95%
Price to Sales Ratio3.7940Last Dividend Reported0.09
 

Suedesi

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2001
Messages
23,873
Location
New York City
This is a very erudite analysis, and highlights why the only prospect of a realistic buyer for the club, is a group whose strategic intent goes beyond a desire for ROI. United, as a brand, still provides a gateway to a number of international markets, and can make sense for a group looking to do an integrated expansion of a wider portfolio. There are multiple cross industry synergistic appeals, and from a branding perspective provides the opportunity for reputational rehabilitation. Hence the term “sports washing”.

All this said, there do remain opportunities for revenue growth through the proliferation of mobile broadcasting rights in emerging markets such as China; and the potential revenue boom from the creation of a long mooted European super league. My recollection of early analysis of the Glazer investment model, is that these were two of the four cornerstones essential to the long term growth of company value. The other two were (a) limiting expenses through the imposition of a salary cap, thus mitigating the greatest risk of accelerating costs I.e. player wages, and (b) the strict implementation of FFP regulations, thus suppressing the upward pressure on transfer fees brought about by the mega-rich state backed clubs. An assumption which was the basis for Woodward’s now infamous “We can do things in the market other clubs can only dream of. Watch this space.”

As we know, this latter aspiration became derailed, and the former looks unlikely to ever be ratified. Consequently, the Glazers are now facing a very real threat to their exit strategy as the club goes successive seasons without CL football. This will likely result in a 100m drop in revenues for the next annual financial results alone. All of their long term financial planning, investment strategy, and debt repayment strategy was predicated on the financial assumption that the club would, on average, achieve a QF finish in the CL every year. The lack of CL participation poses the biggest short term risk to their asset value, and something they likely never anticipated to be a long term concern. Sponsorship values will remain robust because the club has global appeal. It seems the most likely outcome that consistent failure to qualify for the CL, and the associated costs of building a squad capable of competing at the top table again, are the most likely drivers of a sale.

As painful as it is as fans to witness, it may be in our interests to sit out the CL for a couple more seasons and see the Glazers forced to sell before the asset depreciates significantly. There is a great deal of similarity to what happened to Liverpool under Hicks and Gillett. While United remain a far more robust economic entity, it still holds true that they are not immune to financial pressures. While these seem unlikely to ever threaten the survivability of the organization, they do nevertheless exist as significant drivers of potential change. In this case of ownership.

The bottom line is that the Glazers will never sell while returns are acceptable and asset value remains strong, unless they receive an offer which significantly exceeds market valuation. The sole domain of a handful of super rich or state entities. If value starts to significantly drop, such as through consistent failure to quality for the CL, and long term solutions such asa super league are effectively ruled out, then the club becomes a target for a wider group of investors, as there is growth potential in restoring it to previous glories.

I am fairly confident that these are the scenarios being weighed by the Glazers. And without being privy to the discussions of the larger European clubs, it is hard to say what the long term prospects and landscape looks like. From the outside, and a completely uninformed analysis, it would seem to me that in terms of the Glazer ownership model, the club has probably reached peak value and now would be the best time to sell. I just see too many sporting and financial challenges over the next 3-5 years; and there are considerable risks in tying an exit strategy to the rejuvenation of on field performances necessary to boost revenues. But I don’t have all the facts at my disposal, so I am just speculating.
Except, the figures are wrong. GIGO...
 

ravi2

Full Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2012
Messages
9,043
Location
Canada
We're already a propaganda machine for a bunch of cnuts. Might as well be a successful one. You don't think billionaires like the Glazers don't have their part to play in American-led geopolitics? You don't think the profits of United transfer to Glazer bank accounts which transfer to people like Trump and other shady politicians who are in charge of a country that has done more nasty things than Saudi Arabia? Same shit with extra steps.

Also, Saudi Arabia is actually moving to modernizing their country and culture. Not gonna happen overnight, but they are working on it. Don't believe everything western media says about them.
Get fecking serious
 

dabeast

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
344
Please cite your source. MarketWatch and a bunch of other outlets (that I can't cite with links due to Newbie status) cite the current EPS at $0.10 and therefore a P/E ratio of around 190. Nasdaq's vendor, Zacks Investment Research, expects the Feb, 2020 EPS to be $0.19. The point is that at these levels the current price is not explained by the current earnings.
Man Utd:US New York
Manchester United Plc

18.99 USD-0.73-3.70%
Open 19.60Prev Close 19.72Volume 153,008
Market Cap 3.125BDay Range 18.98 - 19.6052 Week Range 15.30 - 21.92

Key Statistics

P/E Ratio34.891 Year Return0.63%
PEGY Ratio29.619830 Day Avg Volume62,229
Shares Outstanding40.57MEPS0.41
Price to Book Ratio1.4294Dividend0.95%
Price to Sales Ratio3.7940Last Dividend Reported0.09
 

Florida Man

Cartoon expert and crap superhero
Joined
Jan 24, 2014
Messages
13,911
Location
Florida, man
Get fecking serious
Nothing I said was false or misleading. Let’s also stop pretending to be marauders of morals participating in the most corrupt sport in the world. Everyone here is already treading a level of hypocrisy to some extent or another but too many are so emotionally vested to see it clearly in my opinion.

Look, if it was up to me, we’d be a club owned by supporters.Or we’d have far more benevolent owners who give a shit. But the reality is that we’re far too expensive for that kind of takeover. It’s one of the few downsides to our amazing success and history. I’m personally not interested in watching this club die slowly just to make a point about morals in football.
 

kafta

Perpetual Under 11's Team Player
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
5,625
Location
Beirut
A Saudi takeover might be the only way to get the glazers out. I don’t like what the Saudi regime represents but I’d take it, as I feel my club is dying.
 

Coops73

Full Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
3,339
Ah shit! I thought that there had been some rumours of a takeover. Close.