Scholes Interview

Majima

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I agree about Martial. He's not a striker and we will never win anything noteworthy with him as our main striker.
Seeing as he's not a striker, how did he manage to con 23 goals & finish as our top scorer playing as a No. 9 then?

Considering Martial, Rashford and Greenwood scored 9 goals more combined than the PL Champions Liverpool last season, I don't think he or they are the problem stopping us here.
 
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stevoc

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Unfortunately, like most ex-United players, he's not the most insightful or clued-up pundit.

I don't know why they even have him in the studio for games. Any time I've seen him he contributes less than Keane who's at least makes up for it in entertainment value.
I love the guy but yeah as a pundit he’s poor and fairly dull.
 

kouroux

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Those Martial comments are not very insightful from Scholes. Your opinion of a player shouldn't diverge that extremely in such a short period of time. It makes no fecking sense whatsoever.
 
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Seeing as he's not a striker, how did he manage to con 23 goals & finish as our top scorer playing as a No. 9 then?

Considering Martial, Rashford and Greenwood scored 9 goals more combined than the PL Champions Liverpool last season, I don't think he or they are the problem stopping us here.
How many would a real striker get.... your glass is full....
 

HJ12

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Those Martial comments are not very insightful from Scholes. Your opinion of a player shouldn't diverge that extremely is such a short period of time. It makes no fecking sense whatsoever.
Indeed. Most of the team have been some way off where they should be (not just Tony), but it seems Martial is the man in the firing line for some reason.
He is to Scholes as Pogba is to Souness I suppose.
 

Sayros

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:lol:

Those Martial comments are not very insightful from Scholes. Your opinion of a player shouldn't diverge that extremely is such a short period of time. It makes no fecking sense whatsoever.
That's just the reality of the bias we see. There is a very long transition from those pundits for Martial to get credit for what he's done last season, and a blink to go right back to saying he's a fraud. They're not quite as quick to do the same with some of the other United players.
 

IAmAWinner

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Seeing as he's not a striker, how did he manage to con 23 goals & finish as our top scorer playing as a No. 9 then?

Considering Martial, Rashford and Greenwood scored 9 goals more combined than the PL Champions Liverpool last season, I don't think he or they are the problem stopping us here.
23 goals isn't good enough for a Manchester United striker. And that Liverpool comparison is pointless. They won the league, we bottled all trophies.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I'd like for Martial to silence his critics bit I feel his ceiling is as the main striker for clubs like Lyon Leipzig etc and not of the biggest clubs
 

Sayros

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23 goals isn't good enough for a Manchester United striker. And that Liverpool comparison is pointless. They won the league, we bottled all trophies.
Manchester United strikers took penalties, he doesn't even though he's more than capable of it. Martial is far from the issue, but personally I'd rather have him as part of a strike duo rather than as the lone CF. I'm curious to see if Ole would play him with Cavani.
 

IrishRedDevil

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Changes his opinion on Martial yet again. That’s the 3rd or 4th time. Must be easy being able to just keep changing your opinion whenever it suits - that’s why he sits in a studio and bores us all to tears.
 

Highfather_24

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Seeing as he's not a striker, how did he manage to con 23 goals & finish as our top scorer playing as a No. 9 then?

Considering Martial, Rashford and Greenwood scored 9 goals more combined than the PL Champions Liverpool last season, I don't think he or they are the problem stopping us here.
Yep.

Can someone define what is this "true CF" or "proper number 9". What attributes do these players have that Martial doesnt?
 
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Yep.

Can someone define what is this "true CF" or "proper number 9". What attributes do these players have that Martial doesnt?
probably someone that can head the ball...

perhaps “traditional no. 9” makes more sense.

Martial will probably always divide opinion. He’s a good striker, he clearly doesn’t do a lot of things that fans want to see in a striker, as he IS different to what we usually see.

you are not going to get pressing, robustness, putting your head in where it hurts, running the channels from Martial. We need to accept that. That’s not who he is.

my opinion is that he’s not a striker that’s good enough to win us the league. But he’s who we have, and I’m behind him.
 

R77

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Yep.

Can someone define what is this "true CF" or "proper number 9". What attributes do these players have that Martial doesnt?
A good question I tried to answer earlier in the thread in a very rudimentary fashion. To reduce it even further; Someone that's not afraid to get in the box when there's more than two opposition players in it? Or maybe someone willing and able to get the ball in the net at all costs beyond passing or dribbling it into the goal.
 

K_Ash

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first year as a striker..32 appearances and 17 goals...Just when we need to stick together, Scholes out there looking for negative headlines. I just don't get it.
 

poleglass red

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Seeing as he's not a striker, how did he manage to con 23 goals & finish as our top scorer playing as a No. 9 then?

Considering Martial, Rashford and Greenwood scored 9 goals more combined than the PL Champions Liverpool last season, I don't think he or they are the problem stopping us here.
I didn't have them scoring that much more than Liverpool's, I had 5 more but it's also worth noting none of the Liverpool front 3 played any league cup games, where it's easier to score in eg Rashford scored 4 goals in 3 league cup games, plus our front 3 played more than double the amount of fa cup games that the Liverpool front 3 played in, so maybe that gives a bit of context to that. I think for a spell last season our front 3 were flying. This season not so much but that applies to every player in the team.
 

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Yep.

Can someone define what is this "true CF" or "proper number 9". What attributes do these players have that Martial doesnt?
A tall and strong player with limited footballing abilities, who will be almost useless outside the box but will tap or head in a ball after a cross.

'Proper' old English football. Long ball to the tall guy up front.

People do seem to forget modern football is about modern forwards switching positions with other front players and also able to do some playmaking. The only European topclub playing with a proper no.9 is Bayern but only because Lewa is so good he is a modern and oldschool proper no.9 both at the same time.
 

poleglass red

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I didn't have them scoring that much more than Liverpool's, I had 5 more but it's also worth noting none of the Liverpool front 3 played any league cup games, where it's easier to score in eg Rashford scored 4 goals in 3 league cup games, plus our front 3 played more than double the amount of fa cup games that the Liverpool front 3 played in, so maybe that gives a bit of context to that. I think for a spell last season our front 3 were flying. This season not so much but that applies to every player in the team.
Liverpool's bread and butter was the league where their front 3 in league games alone, scored more than ours, not many mind, only 2, so it shows when our front line clicks it can do damage
 

White Fury

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There is some truth in his comments.
None of our forwards is a real number 9. RVP was the last true n9 we had at this club. Rashford, Martial, Greenwood are talented and versatile young forwards. But they simply dont have that striker instinct inside the enemy box, nor the clinical finish that world class strikers have in front of goal or smart movement in the penalty area, anticipating crosses etc. They are also not very good at crossing/passing, decision making therefore not very effective wingers.

I also question Rashfords and Martials football intelligence (Rashfords mostly) . And consistency is their biggest problem.
When put like that it sounds that our attack is very unbalanced and lame. Its been 5 years since we've had Rashford and Martial as forwards and our attack hasnt been very effective so far. I know they are young, but the young excuse cannot be used forever like in Lingards case. Maybe its time for change in personnel ?
 

Highfather_24

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probably someone that can head the ball...

perhaps “traditional no. 9” makes more sense.

Martial will probably always divide opinion. He’s a good striker, he clearly doesn’t do a lot of things that fans want to see in a striker, as he IS different to what we usually see.

you are not going to get pressing, robustness, putting your head in where it hurts, running the channels from Martial. We need to accept that. That’s not who he is.

my opinion is that he’s not a striker that’s good enough to win us the league. But he’s who we have, and I’m behind him.
Okay from all the answers I can summarise as a true #9 you need to be good at :

- Headers
- Running in channels
- Presence in box

Suarez is not the a huge threat aerially. Zlatan didnt run channels. I dont think these 2 traits are must needed to be a top #9. But I will concede that he needs to have more of a presence in the box and attack more balls in the box.

I think Martial is more of a false 9, thats true. You dont see Liverpool fans clamouring for a "true number 9" do you? I think most people just want a old fashioned striker, but the truth is Martial is among the top 3 players in our squad, and there are far more pressing issues in the squad.
 

lsd

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Why do people keep bringing up liverpool as an excuse for Martial ? Liverpool don't depend on Firminho to score as they have Salah and Mane who are by far their bigger goal threats.

We are not Liverpool here
 

Mihai

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He studied sport and brand management and then became their marketing director. He isn't a DOF and has never been one, if anything he looks like the ideal replacement for Woodward or Arnold.
My reply was sarcastic. Sorry, I should have mentioned it.
 
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Okay from all the answers I can summarise as a true #9 you need to be good at :

- Headers
- Running in channels
- Presence in box

Suarez is not the a huge threat aerially. Zlatan didnt run channels. I dont think these 2 traits are must needed to be a top #9. But I will concede that he needs to have more of a presence in the box and attack more balls in the box.

I think Martial is more of a false 9, thats true. You dont see Liverpool fans clamouring for a "true number 9" do you? I think most people just want a old fashioned striker, but the truth is Martial is among the top 3 players in our squad, and there are far more pressing issues in the squad.
you have name checked two of the very best strikers of the past 15 years. Martial doesn’t in any way compare to them. The best comparison is Henry, but clearly he’s nowhere near that level.

if he got in the box more, people would view him in a better light.
 

Bebestation

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It's just that some people, fans and ex players always assume that the centre forward is the missing link, the problem, the main goalscorer.

These are the types that if they were managers that stick to a traditional number 9 and have atleast one of their wide players to be creative and crossing.

These are the people that call a player like Firmino overrated simply because he doesnt score goals, never seeing the difference that a striker like Origi even if he was world class would make to the way the main goalscorers like Mane & Salah would play. They then say that Haaland would move to Liverpool or something like that.
 

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There are areas in need of attention in the team, CB and a natural RW no doubt, however having watched the team over the past season CF is definitely the position I think we needed most attention in order to gel our attack, I know we tried for haaland so that told me Ole recognised this too, was not aware we would sign a CF this window as all the attention was on sancho who would use up most of our budget. Happy to get Cavani in, I have no doubts about his ability or desire, we have seen Ole does his homework here, if he can stay fit brilliant addition that should allow us to be more fluid involving our other forwards who are mostly runners not box players, they are also all very young, they need help up front, as with young players you get inconsistency and the type of players they are, particularly Rashford and Martial, so often they are running from deep with nothing in the box or if they are in advanced positions they drop deep looking for the ball leaving nothing in the box, with a CF and with a vast array of tools and experience we can now hopefully change that and it should improve all the younger attackers and our attack overall.
 

klayton88

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Just another ex player who can't just disappear with the millions they made. They have to linger and spout shite to stay relevant.
 

Majima

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I didn't have them scoring that much more than Liverpool's, I had 5 more but it's also worth noting none of the Liverpool front 3 played any league cup games, where it's easier to score in eg Rashford scored 4 goals in 3 league cup games, plus our front 3 played more than double the amount of fa cup games that the Liverpool front 3 played in, so maybe that gives a bit of context to that. I think for a spell last season our front 3 were flying. This season not so much but that applies to every player in the team.
Liverpool's bread and butter was the league where their front 3 in league games alone, scored more than ours, not many mind, only 2, so it shows when our front line clicks it can do damage
I agree, that's fair enough. To do a more accurate comparison, I'll only include PL games:
Goals ScoredMins Per GoalTotal Mins Overall
Rashford (22)
17​
156'​
2,655'​
Martial (24)
17​
155'​
2.640'​
Greenwood (19)
10​
131'​
1,311'​
Mane (28)
18​
153'​
2,755'​
Firmino (29)
9​
332'​
3,004'​
Salah (28)
19​
152'​
2,888'​

As you say the PL was their most important competition, and our forwards actually stack up extremely well to them, whilst being much younger too.

Your last sentence is the most apt. I don't understand what people expect when we can see how dysfunctional the whole team is this season. It's not one players fault when the whole team is looking so clueless. Can you think of a single partnership in our team that's working? That says it all doesn't it?
 

Deery

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It's just that some people, fans and ex players always assume that the centre forward is the missing link, the problem, the main goalscorer.

These are the types that if they were managers that stick to a traditional number 9 and have atleast one of their wide players to be creative and crossing.

These are the people that call a player like Firmino overrated simply because he doesnt score goals, never seeing the difference that a striker like Origi even if he was world class would make to the way the main goalscorers like Mane & Salah would play. They then say that Haaland would move to Liverpool or something like that.
“You’re only as strong as your strikers”
 

Majima

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Let's say Håland was here instead of Martial, realistically how is he going to change anything? Is he going to stop Maguire from tackling his own team-mates, Lindelöf/Bailly being awol, AWB/Shaw being scared to cross the half way line? Get Matic & Pogba to actually offer some control, and get a tune out of a Rashford still suffering from his back injury? Strikers are the last of our problems right now.

Even Southgate played a back three with England at the WC with Maguire for a reason, yet it's supposed to be a good idea to play Maguire high up leaving all the space for him to be turned 1v1 vs Spurs? That's just one of the curious decisions being made recently. One thing we do know, is that our players are much better than this. The elephant in the room, is that no-one wants to ask the real questions from Ole and the coaching staff, so individual players get scapegoated instead.
 

Highfather_24

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you have name checked two of the very best strikers of the past 15 years. Martial doesn’t in any way compare to them. The best comparison is Henry, but clearly he’s nowhere near that level.

if he got in the box more, people would view him in a better light.
We are not talking about quality, but style of play.

There are various types of forwards : poachers(Hernandez, Inzaghi), strikers who play on the shoulder and are fast(Owen, Vardy), target men(Giroud), false 9s(Messi, Griezmann), second striker(Rooney, Del Piero) etc. Martial is probably best described as a second striker. Like Henry you said(but obviously there is difference in quality).

I dont mind people having a preference for a different style of player, but I disagree that its "necessary" or required. It depends on the tactical system and style of play, what kind of forward you need. If you're playing a possession style of football, having a classic target man doesnt work. If put a lot of crosses in , having a false 9 probably wont work etc.

Martial certainly has room for improvement. He is not a complete centre forward. But I find all this nitpicking weird, because Rashford isnt a perfect/true left winger either because his not creative enough. Nor is Greenwood a true RW. I can say Lindelof isnt a true CB because he sucks at headers. Or that De Gea isnt a true GK because he doesnt come off his line.

What we have to realise is there is no one way of playing a position. Michael Owen and Zlatan Ibrahimovic have both been amazing CFs in their prime, and were very different footballers. You can question Martial's goal scoring ability, or his weaknesses, but to criticise him for his style of play is not fair imo. As in stands, along with Bruno and Greenwood, he is our top 3 player.

I think more people need to question the effectiveness of players like Rashford in the media, because despite being very very poor post restart, no one talks about him, because he is from the academy and a poster boy of England now. The truth is Martial is performing much better than Rashford in the last 3 months, but everybody keeps on talking about replacing Martial and not Rashford. Its bias.
 

Deery

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Let's say Håland was here instead of Martial, realistically how is he going to change anything? Is he going to stop Maguire from tackling his own team-mates, Lindelöf/Bailly being awol, AWB/Shaw being scared to cross the half way line? Get Matic & Pogba to actually offer some control, and get a tune out of a Rashford still suffering from his back injury? Strikers are the last of our problems right now.

Even Southgate played a back three with England at the WC with Maguire for a reason, yet it's supposed to be a good idea to play Maguire high up leaving all the space for him to be turned 1v1 vs Spurs? That's just one of the curious decisions being made recently. One thing we do know, is that our players are much better than this. The elephant in the room, is that no-one wants to ask the real questions from Ole and the coaching staff, so individual players get scapegoated instead.
Keane did just the other week, he said if Ole doesn’t do well then he’s under serious pressure.

I think if things keep going the way they are people will start following that line of thought.

As for Haaland we could play a longer ball up to him so defence could sit deeper for Maguire, Martial could play on the left resting Rashford and Pogba could use his vision and long passing to pick out Haaland’s runs thus taking the pressure of his short passing game.