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2019-20 Performances


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6.0 Season Average Rating
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Rozay

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What's your next excuse/revisionism? Clearly you just don't want to rate him at all.

McT's out from (Dec 27th to Feb 18)

United when he's injured, up until Bruno joined.
Win 2-0 Burnley​
Lost 0-2 Arsenal
Draw 0-0 Wolves​
Lost 1-3 City
Won 4-0 Norwich​
Won 1-0 Wolves​
Lost 0-2 Pool (playing with 5 defenders)​
Lost 0-2 Burnley​
Won 6-0 TR​
Won 1-0 City (playing with 5 defenders, we were outplayed but won, Matic scored a freak great goal)​

Before injury, vs "top" teams:
Won 4-1 Chelsea
Won 1-0 Leicester
Drew 1-1 Arsenal
Drew 1-2 Pool (playing with 5 defenders)​
Won 2-1 Chelsea (playing with 5 defenders)​
Won 2-1 Spurs
Won 2-1 City

We struggled without him in big games.

Let's just forget about those and pretend he's not important.
Let's change the story to suit the reality you're forcing yourself to imagine to be the real truth.
Ah stop talking nonsense. You don’t have to overcomplicate anything with charts and graphs. Scott was replaced in the team by Matic. Matic has had a good season and played well when on the pitch, hence us not missing him. McTominay has returned from injury and still mot displaced Matic. Yet we missed him? And in what way was Matic’s goal against City a ‘freak’ goal?

Scott is who he is. And he isn’t who he isn’t. There’s no revisionism from me. My view on Scott has been consistent throughout. He’s an average player. Once upon a time I was a lone voice in here with that view, it appears it is not seen as outrageous any more. That being said, I appreciate his positives, and just yesterday I have been in here doing so. But to say the rubbish spoken earlier in the season (first name on the team sheet, most important player, future captain, one of the best midfielders in the league, one of our top 10 ever academy graduates etc) about a player who would attract no interest from another top club was NOT hyperbole is delusional to say the least.

I like him, he’s a squad player who can be useful here. However, that doesn’t correspond with how he was being spoken about earlier, which is my only point here.
 

Andycoleno9

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I must be getting too old for this. Hyperbolic. I had to google that. If I remember correctly we did struggle in his absence.
If i remember correctly with him in team we played on counter attacks. Without him, we started to play proper football.
 

Icemav

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What's your next excuse/revisionism? Clearly you just don't want to rate him at all.

McT's out from (Dec 27th to Feb 18)

United when he's injured, up until Bruno joined.
Win 2-0 Burnley​
Lost 0-2 Arsenal
Draw 0-0 Wolves​
Lost 1-3 City
Won 4-0 Norwich​
Won 1-0 Wolves​
Lost 0-2 Pool (playing with 5 defenders)​
Lost 0-2 Burnley​
Won 6-0 TR​
Won 1-0 City (playing with 5 defenders, we were outplayed but won, Matic scored a freak great goal)​

Before injury, vs "top" teams:
Won 4-1 Chelsea
Won 1-0 Leicester
Drew 1-1 Arsenal
Drew 1-1 Pool (playing with 5 defenders)​
Won 2-1 Chelsea (playing with 5 defenders)​
Won 2-1 Spurs
Won 2-1 City

We struggled without him in big games.

Let's just forget about those and pretend he's not important.
Let's change the story to suit the reality you're forcing yourself to imagine to be the real truth.
Agree. When Mctom and Pogba got crocked we struggled.

However since the restart there is certainly an issue with fitting him in to our more possession based style of play. He doesnt do the holding role well. His passing has been very rudimentary. Sideways or back and to the first man. Needs to improve that.
 

Foxbatt

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Matic was piss poor early on. Fred was terrible and Pogba was injured. McTominay played well in his limited way during that period. Fred came back very strongly, Matic rediscovered his form, Pogba came back from his injury and more importantly we got Bruno.
The dynamics of the team changed and McTominay is not missed. He is a very limited player and is not good enough to be a regular at a club like Manchester United.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Never?
Agree there is revisionism going on here.. by the likes of you and others who just don't want to admit it.
There is simply no chance he was ever our main midfielder.

There was plenty of criticism on here for his and Fred's inability to play forward passes that heavily restricted us in the 1st half of the season.

I mean do people think it's a coincidence that our performances have massively improved with these 2 not featuring as much? Come on.
 

SAFMUTD

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Before the covid break we were playing a very different type of football, in that time McTominay suited well. His aggressiveness and tenacity along with the fact that he's homegrown makes a really likeable player, but now that we've seen what a proper midfield like the Bruno-Pogba-Matic is capable of he looks extremely limited.
 

Foxbatt

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There are matches when he is required to play and may do a decent job. I would play him in some matches where a 4 man midfield is required.
 

Andycoleno9

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When you start talking about some midfielder and first thoughts which comes on your mind are hard work and passion, then that tells you a lot about that player. Man Utd midfielder (first choice or backup) must at first place have skill. Because Man Utd is a club whos priority is to dominate in games. If you want to dominate your whole midfield must be good on the ball. Of course that you can't expect that every midfielder is Pogba or Modric regarding their skill but skill must be starting point for every midfielder in that setup.

Last 12 months showed us all how creative players change teams style and performances.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Had to refreshen my memory of him because he has been poor lately. But he's clearly a box to box why are we fixated on playing him like Matic?
 

spiriticon

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This thread and Fred's thread are criminal to read at this moment.

It's like the improvements they made this year has been totally forgotten.
 

andersj

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Once upon a time I was a lone voice in here with that view, it appears it is not seen as outrageous any more.
Quite the oposite actually. You were very loud about McTominay more than one year ago when «everyone» was on his back.

And you did not call him average. If I remember correctly you said that players like Pearson and Rothwell would have done just as good as him given the chance. Obviously bs.

I’m not sure being consistent is «impressive» either, although that seems very important to people online. Intelligent people are able to change their minds. Being consistent is more a case of failing to admit that one was wrong.
 
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jamesjimmybyrondean

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Because he hasn't got a hope in displacing Pogba or Bruno in their role.
Maybe but Carrick has previously stated he can see Mctominay taking his role even before Ole came. Herrera said the same thing. And Matic had said he sees himself in Mctominay. If all those players think he can play that role then there has to be something
 

red woppit

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McTominay's lack of passing ability has been mentioned quite a few times on here, but it was he who slotted a lovely waited pass into Bruno to set up the first goal on Thursday.
 

rollingstoned1

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I’m not sure being consistent is «impressive» either, although that seems very important to people online. Intelligent people are able to change their minds. Being consistent is more a case of failing to admit that one was wrong.
i wouldn't make such a sweeping claim. you can legitimize any knee jerk flip flopping by stating that.
having said that i guess people have forgotten some of the games McT impressed in this season early on. Yea the team struggled and we sucked for a large part of it but we can't pretend it didn't happen and he seemed to grow as a personality. You can be a very good to borderline world class player despite being average on the ball, that isn't a problem. And a committed youth product will always be useful if he isn't rubbish. We need to find him a role though because he can't play the role he was for most of the season and we won't always play with our backs to the wall even against opposition that is as good or better than us. Fletcher adapted and like we always assumed is a good role model for him.
 

Beachryan

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I think it's really hard for players like him to respond to the covid situation. He basically was given 2 months off, and then barely played since the restart, but is expected to be up to speed and match ready.

Just look at Rashford and his first few games back - now he's in a great rhythm, but he's played loads of minutes.

Without a doubt Scott's passing and touch have looked off, but I'm going to give him a bit of a break until he's fully in the swing of things again.
 

spiriticon

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Had to refreshen my memory of him because he has been poor lately. But he's clearly a box to box why are we fixated on playing him like Matic?
3:28, 4:33, 4:48, 5:58 in this video and possibly more.

I know I'm not going crazy when I say that I've seen evidence that this boy can pass.
 

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The problem is really willingness to get on the ball and dictate play. Matic is constantly playing passes into the attackers feet. McTominay is just keeping the ball moving. When one of your midfielders isn't offering an attacking threat then we become really predictable and teams can double Pogba and Bruno.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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3:28, 4:33, 4:48, 5:58 in this video and possibly more.

I know I'm not going crazy when I say that I've seen evidence that this boy can pass.
He can make a good pass. The problem is he is very inconsistent with it. Sometimes he does a lot of sideway passes
 

Rozay

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Quite the oposite actually. You were very loud about McTominay more than one year ago when «everyone» was on his back.

And you did not call him average. If I remember correctly you said that players like Pearson and Rothwell would have done just as good as him given the chance. Obviously bs.

I’m not sure being consistent is «impressive» either, although that seems very important to people online. Intelligent people are able to change their minds. Being consistent is more a case of failing to admit that one was wrong.
One thing I learned as a kid is not to argue over things that can be looked up. Below is the exact post I assume you are referencing. It was me comparing Scott, THE ACADEMY midfielder to a number of others who were let go without a chance. Those players were as good or better than him in the academy. If they were given 100 games, I’m sure they could be average squad players too.

Easy to say that now. I recall both his time in our academy and the time of those I’m referring to. He showed no more ability than Ben Pearson, Matt James, David Jones, Ryan Tunnicliffe, Larnell Cole and co who never got a look in here. If he was let go instead of, to everyone’s surprise, brought into the squad by Jose - we would have been talking about Rotherham at best or SPL.

I think if we drew Ben Pearson’s name and said ‘you will be in the squad for the next few years, he’d have had good games and bad games, he’d have been ‘useful’, he’d have run and tackled and been told that he ‘gets it’ when the fancy foreigners are not standing up. Same goes for others. However, the bar was above him. Josh Harrop was far more talented than Scott McTominay for example.

You say ‘just because he doesn’t have a touch (or passing, or dribbling for that matter) of Gomes like it shouldn’t matter if he doesn’t. That’s the point. Angel Gomes isn’t the first or only young player to have that level of talent. It’s not an exceptional level that top clubs shouldn’t necessarily require. The likes of Foden, Nelson, Gibbs-White and a number of others also have this level of talent, which is why they are the ones selected from their academies to progress. If you don’t have the ability of Gomes that is fine too, but then it’s not mandatory for you to be given a chance at United, I thought only that tier of talent gets a real chance taken on them at the biggest clubs. The rest often join a smaller team.

The point with Gomes, and Rossi, Pogba, Januzaj and co is that most youth players don’t get the luxury of a proper crack at the United first team unless they are in this bracket. I’m not suggesting McTominay could not be a professional footballer or anything, or even a PL one. I’m saying that I don’t expect Mark Noble to come through a United academy either. There’s no point in me listing the things Mark Noble is ‘good’ at. He isn’t good enough at them, is the point - not to be given a chance at Manchester United anyway. And if he was, then the same could be said about so many other players at a similar level. That’s my point with Scott. I see no exceptional talent at all to explain why he plays for Manchester United and not Bournemouth. Most reserves don’t get a proper crack. The Gomes we speak of may not make it here given the chance. I’m just saying that it is a lot more obvious to me why he should have been given that chance than a Scott McTominay. He’s an upper level talent, not a mid-level. Other ‘good’ ones like Daelhi, Eikrem, Buffonge have not gotten a shot. DJ Buffonge doesn’t have less footballing talent than Scott McTominay, and if I were him I’d watch Scott and feel I were entitled to a chance at United too, if he is.

Below is just one example of where I called McTominay an average player. These are all from this very thread.

I was with you for a while, but ultimately, like @haram, your post descended into you speaking in definitives and telling me what I refuse to accept and what is ‘factually’ wrong in my evaluation of a particular footballer, so I recuse myself from this debate.

It’s clear to all that I think McTominay is an average young player. It’s clear to me that the rest of this forum think he’s a lot better than that. Those that disagreed with me have even convinced themselves that their opinion is a ‘fact’ (I wasn’t aware as a general football observer that it is taken as a footballing fact that McTominay is a very good/top young player) and to me, just as you seem to think I suffer from some sort of human deficiency of refusing to change my mind etc, you, and others are the same. As far as I am concerned, I have seen top young midfielders, and I have seen Scott McTominay. There is a difference. To me. You can disagree, as is your right.

Me again clarifying my position, calling him a useful squad player, but not of the quality to be a starter.

Two.

But I think he can be a good squad player. He has everything but top class ability on the football. This isn’t a criticism in my opinion, to be a squad player here, for him, is an achievement, and will mean he’s squeezed everything out of the ability he has. But he’s not good enough on the ball. When the pitch becomes smaller and tighter, he struggles. In the centre of the park, it will often be tight.

Off the ball, he’s very good. To be the ‘first name on the teamsheet’ at Manchester United, as I’ve seen written of him, he needs to look after the ball far better than he does. Ultimately, I think he’s fortunate he was born a few years before James Garner.

Me calling him average again.

Your opinion. I think that if you think that was a good midfield performance, you are not objective. McTominay is an average footballer with a big heart. He’s from Lancaster but made the smart move to represent Scotland, as he’d never get near the England squad with the talent they have.

I appreciate that he’s the best option for now, and I’d currently have him in the team every week. However, unless he learns to manipulate the ball a lot better than he does, then he’d be the first in the first choice midfielders I’d upgrade in order to improve the quality of the team. That is provided Fred can get close to today’s performance with regularity, which remains to be seen. If not, I’d be looking at upgrading the pair for better and more reliable midfielders. I have no reason to ‘hate’ McTominay. I just don’t think he’s good. As far as top young midfielders go, 22 year olds who have the quality to go on and be a United regular, I expect them to be better footballers than McTominay. I’m more than happy for him to be in the rotation though, but if he’s the best we have, it’s damning I think.

Me praising his shooting ability, but questioning his passing ability, which everyone now seemingly realises isn’t good enough.

He already has a very good shot on him. That said, with the ‘agenda’ accusations, I was reading all the glee over the last couple of pages afraid of being the one to raise the concern about the fact that he can’t pass a fecking ball anywhere near well enough. Thankfully a couple of others have mentioned it now. In all this unbridled praise, I’m here scratching my head that it doesn’t seem to bother people how often he gives the ball away. Reading the match day thread, I saw it mentioned throughout the game, and then came in here and the summary is ‘Roy Keane’s back’.

To me, he does a lot of things very well, but he isn’t good enough on the ball. My concern with the midfield is that we seem to be a ‘stop the other team playing’ midfield, even at our very best. A good performance is how often we broke up the play and all that stuff, and has been that way for a few years now, especially against the better teams. I think at our stature, we need to start moving towards controlling possession ourselves. I still see our midfield unable to make a lot of passes that would make the difference, and just the general play one-touch triangles etc. The emphasis on tackling, chasing, blocking and pressing is a bit too much for my liking.


Me defending Scott when another poster insisted he should be sold.

Definitely strong to be calling for him to leave. He’s fought his way into our squad, and for now at least, absolutely deserves to stay here.

He’s obviously not one of the best midfielders in the league, the best thing since Roy Keane or better than Pogba and whatever ridiculous things I’ve read so far this season. He’d do well to establish himself as better than any of the three in Watford’s midfield last Sunday, but people have gotten carried away.

And again

I think Fred is better than McTominay too, but Scott isn’t as shite as you’re making out. But he’s massively overhyped on here of course.

I could go on and on, there are loads in this thread. You can see my comments after every performance post-lockdown. Defending him from extreme criticism, but tempering it with balance of pros and cons.

I have maintained that I think he’s an average footballer, not the worst player to walk the earth, and I’ve said that he’s become better to me, than I initially thought he was (while still being average).

What I did notice going back through the thread was quite a lot of my comments have been to you, and you have been the one consistently bandwagoning hyperbole about Scott. Perhaps you should take your own advice about changing your opinion on a player who isn’t even good enough to get into our XI.
 

andersj

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One thing I learned as a kid is not to argue over things that can be looked up. Below is the exact post I assume you are referencing. It was me comparing Scott, THE ACADEMY midfielder to a number of others who were let go without a chance. Those players were as good or better than him in the academy. If they were given 100 games, I’m sure they could be average squad players too.


Below is just one example of where I called McTominay an average player. These are all from this very thread.


Me again clarifying my position, calling him a useful squad player, but not of the quality to be a starter.


Me calling him average again.


Me praising his shooting ability, but questioning his passing ability, which everyone now seemingly realises isn’t good enough.



Me defending Scott when another poster insisted he should be sold.


And again


I could go on and on, there are loads in this thread. You can see my comments after every performance post-lockdown. Defending him from extreme criticism, but tempering it with balance of pros and cons.

I have maintained that I think he’s an average footballer, not the worst player to walk the earth, and I’ve said that he’s become better to me, than I initially thought he was (while still being average).

What I did notice going back through the thread was quite a lot of my comments have been to you, and you have been the one consistently bandwagoning hyperbole about Scott. Perhaps you should take your own advice about changing your opinion on a player who isn’t even good enough to get into our XI.
You show up every time he has a tough spell to tell everyone that you where right about him.

Some other posts you have made about him;

«It’s not young player impatience. Nobody was lobbying for McTominay to get into the first team when he was in the reserves. Probably literally not one poster. That’s because he’s not shown that he’s particularly good or promising.»

March 2018

«McTominay should follow West Brom to the Championship in all honesty.»

April 2018

«We have some kids who, in the academy, have shown that they ‘might’ become stars. Those players are the ones we should have a proper look at to see if they are good enough. McTomminay showed nothing in the academy to be the chosen one to be invested in, nor has he shown enough in the first team.»

July 2018

«He’s no McTominay. Scott is a lotto winner,»

December 2018

«I’m genuinely bemused as to why Scott McTominay plays for us.»

March 2019

«However, if you compare the feedback he gets to that of Andreas Pereira, another young central midfielder of similar age and United experience, Pereira’s name is very often followed on this forum by ‘he’s just not very good’, or ‘he’s a bit shit to be fair’. He’s clearly (clear to me anyway), of superior talent to Scott McTominay. He has better technical ability, is a better passer, dribbler and shooter. And is very two-footed.»

August 2019

Yes, you keep repeating that he is average. But average seems to have changed. Average used to be not better than Dave Jones, Hamilton etc. Average today seem to imply good enough to be a squad player. So I do think your position has changed and that you have not been that consistent (something I think is a good thing).

I agree that he is good enough to be a squad player. I dont think any of the talent you mentioned would have been just if we gave them enough chances. Gibson was not. Cleverley was not. And Pereira is not.

Your initial position, that he was a lottery winner that got more chances than what he deserved and that this just happened for no reason is what I find funny and stupid. That three different coaching teams who watch him every day just kept giving him chances for no reason, and that basically any midfield talent could have done the same as him if they got the chance.
 
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Rozay

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You show up every time he has a tough spell to tell everyone that you where right about him.

Some other posts you have made about him;

«It’s not young player impatience. Nobody was lobbying for McTominay to get into the first team when he was in the reserves. Probably literally not one poster. That’s because he’s not shown that he’s particularly good or promising.»

March 2018

«McTominay should follow West Brom to the Championship in all honesty.»

April 2018

«We have some kids who, in the academy, have shown that they ‘might’ become stars. Those players are the ones we should have a proper look at to see if they are good enough. McTomminay showed nothing in the academy to be the chosen one to be invested in, nor has he shown enough in the first team.»

July 2018

«He’s no McTominay. Scott is a lotto winner,»

December 2018

«I’m genuinely bemused as to why Scott McTominay plays for us.»

March 2019

«However, if you compare the feedback he gets to that of Andreas Pereira, another young central midfielder of similar age and United experience, Pereira’s name is very often followed on this forum by ‘he’s just not very good’, or ‘he’s a bit shit to be fair’. He’s clearly (clear to me anyway), of superior talent to Scott McTominay. He has better technical ability, is a better passer, dribbler and shooter. And is very two-footed.»

August 2019

Yes, you keep repeating that he is average. But average seems to have changed. Average used to be not better than Dave Jones, Hamilton etc. Average today seem to imply good enough to be a squad player. So I do think your position has changed and that you have not been that consistent (something I think is a good thing).

I agree that he is good enough to be a squad player. I dont think any of the talent you mentioned would have been just if we gave them enough chances. Gibson was not. Cleverley was not. And Pereira is not.

Your initial position, that he was a lottery winner that got more chances than what he deserved and that this just happened for no reason is what I find funny and stupid. That three different coaching teams who watch him every day just kept giving him chances for no reason, and that basically any midfield talent could have done the same as him if they got the chance.
I called him a lotto winner because he was unimpressive in the academy. No more impressive than many others who were jot given the chance he was. Then when he came into the team, he was rubbish. Now that he has improved, he is a substitute, not a great player. It’s been a three year journey, and the sum total of what we have is an average squad player today. If that is a level above everything else we’ve let go from the academy in recent years, we have been wasting our time.

And players leave for different reasons. It’s easy to say whatever in hindsight. Cleverley was an England international for a while, and has been a solid PL player since he left United. He is no worse than McTominay. McTominay wouldn’t get into an England midfield, and if he left United, would go to the same calibre of teams that Cleverley has played for. Fortune and timing play a large role. Gibson spent most of his time as a PL player, again, playing for teams that would be after Scott. Drinkwater has been a PL winner, England player and signed for Chelsea. Most PL teams do not have midfielders with inferior quality to Scott.

I watched him at academy level, like many others, and he was a nothing player. 3 years in the first team, he’s a squad player. Someone like Josh Harrop, who played one PL game and scored a good goal for us, is the #10 for Preston now. Why couldn’t he have been a sub midfielder if he was just kept around? He is more talented than Scott, anyone who watched them in the academy would tell you that.

It’s also interesting that to prove your point of ‘you haven’t changed your opinion’, you have had to come out of this thread and go back to 18/19 - rather than use a whole season’s worth of this thread. I could go back and dig up the most ridiculous hyperbole posted by many, probably yourself included, about a player who is a squad player here.
 

TwoSheds

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I think Ole just didn't tell him to play as a DM which I really don't get. He's the only player in that midfield who was suited to the role, somebody had to be disciplined and break up attacks in front of the defence and yet he and Pogba were rotating in and out and neither was really providing proper cover or easy passing options at the start of the game. They both grew into it a bit and overall it wasn't terrible but I think the coaches need to be very clear with MCTominay what his role is when he comes in for Matic.
 

bond19821982

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he is not a DM not atleast for now. Learning is all good but then we are taking away his most important attribute if we convert him to a DM - running, stamina and tenacity .

Remember we tried exactly same with Fletcher but his best was as a b2b player.
 

andersj

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I called him a lotto winner because he was unimpressive in the academy. No more impressive than many others who were jot given the chance he was. Then when he came into the team, he was rubbish. Now that he has improved, he is a substitute, not a great player. It’s been a three year journey, and the sum total of what we have is an average squad player today. If that is a level above everything else we’ve let go from the academy in recent years, we have been wasting our time.

And players leave for different reasons. It’s easy to say whatever in hindsight. Cleverley was an England international for a while, and has been a solid PL player since he left United. He is no worse than McTominay. McTominay wouldn’t get into an England midfield, and if he left United, would go to the same calibre of teams that Cleverley has played for. Fortune and timing play a large role. Gibson spent most of his time as a PL player, again, playing for teams that would be after Scott. Drinkwater has been a PL winner, England player and signed for Chelsea. Most PL teams do not have midfielders with inferior quality to Scott.

I watched him at academy level, like many others, and he was a nothing player. 3 years in the first team, he’s a squad player. Someone like Josh Harrop, who played one PL game and scored a good goal for us, is the #10 for Preston now. Why couldn’t he have been a sub midfielder if he was just kept around? He is more talented than Scott, anyone who watched them in the academy would tell you that.

It’s also interesting that to prove your point of ‘you haven’t changed your opinion’, you have had to come out of this thread and go back to 18/19 - rather than use a whole season’s worth of this thread. I could go back and dig up the most ridiculous hyperbole posted by many, probably yourself included, about a player who is a squad player here.
I always liked Josh Harrop. Still do. But he has made less of an impact at Preston than McTominay has at Man Utd.

It is not luck or chance that has kept McT at Man Utd while Harrop is struggeling at Preston. The coaches, professionals that know more than you and me about football and who have seen McTominay and Harrop train everyday, saw something that you did not and believed in McTominay.
 

Eire Red United

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You’ll nearly always get a sold 6/10 from Scott, more than happy to have him in the squad. Obviously nowhere near Pogba but that’s not a criticism.
 

GDaly95

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Completely agree with the sentiment on here that he isn't a defensive mid.

He absolutely has a place in this squad though and he's valuable.

He'll never be all that much when he's on the pitch with both Bruno and Pogba because it means he needs to play a restricted game.

Once we rest one of them (I reckon we will tomorrow) and he has Fred alongside him, we'll see a lot more from him. I personally think he'll be one of our best players tomorrow.

Watch this space
 

He'sRaldo

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The problem is our formation. Scott can be a very good box to box 8 in a 4-3-3, but that's a completely different role from being one of the 2 pivot midfielders in a 4-2-3-1.

The confusing thing is the 4-3-3 fits all of our midfielders, and the 4-2-3-1 has left them isolated a lot of the time. Pogba especially shouldn't be operating so deep, and Fernandes so high. But it's been almost 2 years now and Ole hasn't changed, so I've gotten tired of complaining about it.
 
Last edited:

andersj

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I also think it hurts McTominay that our general play is quite poor. Even Pogba and Matic have been having a tough time for a couple of games. If our build-up play was better, with more structure too it, these players would look better too. Look at Henderson at Liverpool and how much better he looks under Klopp.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I think what hurts his performance is when you play him on the left of the double pivot. He seems more comfortable on the right both defensively and attacking wise
 

Augustus Gloop

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Surely has to start Wednesday after that sh*t show. He’s just not as error prone as Fred or Matić.
 

VivaObertan

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Really could have done with him yesterday. Good at winning fouls and on the flip side knows how to dish it out when we're being manhandled like we were today.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Losing to Comeback Winning!
Wonder which player didn't start today's big game...?

I do get his recent form is not really that good.

And it's pointless to sub him in when we're chasing the game.

Nevertheless, we miss the "bites" in midfield and "in your face!" plays he can dish out to Chelsea players today.

Isn't Ole suppose to understand all his players by now? especially at this peak schedule.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Many posters don't like this at all since McT is a rubbish player... :cool:

2019/20 season

1. Overall
Vs City, Pool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal + Leicester & Wolves
With McT
= 6W 4D
Win% 60
Draw% 40
Lost% 0

Without McT = 3W 2D 4L
Win% 33
Draw% 22
Lost% 44

Vs the other "weaker" teams
No significant differences against the other teams.. well, actually a lot better without him in total but how much is that to do with Bruno's effects.
With McT = 10W 4D 5L
Win% 53
Draw% 21
Lost% 26

Without McT = 6W 2D 1L
Win% 67
Draw% 22
Lost% 11
---------

2. Bruno effects
Minus Bruno effects

Vs City, Pool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal + Leicester & Wolves
Pre-Bruno = 7W 4D 3L
+ Mct = 6W 3D
Win% 67
- McT = 1W 1D 3L
Win% 20
Draw% 20
Lost% 60 :eek:

Vs other "weaker" teams
Pre-Bruno = 8W 3D 6L
+ McT = 3W 1D 5L
Win% 33
Draw% 11
Lost% 55
- McT = 5W 2D 1L
Win% 63
Draw% 25
Lost% 13

Turns out Bruno really help the team a lot when McT is not playing against the big fishes.
No doubt McT is basically useless (to be harsh) against the "weaker" teams.
Vs top teams + two
2W 2D 1L
with McT = 1W 1D
Without McT = 1W 1D 1L

Vs "weaker" teams
8W 3D
with McT = 7W 3D
Without McT = 1W

--------------

3. Other
Europa league

With McT = 4W 1D
Without McT = 2W 1D 1L

------------

4. Conclusion?
So turns it's just pure coincidence that with McT, we never lost against the big teams and the two top 5 contenders.
Stats showed we are more likely to get points with McT against them, and more likely to lose without him.

But that's just pure coincidence.

Still a rubbish player
 
Last edited:

Mcking

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Many posters don't like this at all since McT is a rubbish player... :cool:

2019/20 season

1. Overall
Vs City, Pool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal + Leicester & Wolves
With McT
= 6W 4D
Win% 60
Draw% 40
Lost% 0

Without McT = 3W 2D 4L
Win% 33
Draw% 22
Lost% 44

Vs the other "weaker" teams
No significant differences against the other teams.. well, actually a lot better without him in total but how much is that to do with Bruno's effects.
With McT = 10W 4D 5L
Win% 53
Draw% 21
Lost% 26

Without McT = 6W 2D 1L
Win% 67
Draw% 22
Lost% 11
---------

2. Bruno effects
Minus Bruno effects

Vs City, Pool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal + Leicester & Wolves
Pre-Bruno = 7W 4D 3L
+ Mct = 6W 3D
Win% 67
- McT = 1W 1D 3L
Win% 20
Draw% 20
Lost% 60 :eek:

Vs other "weaker" teams
Pre-Bruno = 8W 3D 6L
+ McT = 3W 1D 5L
Win% 33
Draw% 11
Lost% 55
- McT = 5W 2D 1L
Win% 63
Draw% 25
Lost% 13

Turns out Bruno really help the team a lot when McT is not playing against the big fishes.
No doubt McT is basically useless (to be harsh) against the "weaker" teams.
Vs top teams + two
2W 2D 1L
with McT = 1W 1D
Without McT = 1W 1D 1L

Vs "weaker" teams
8W 3D
with McT = 7W 3D
Without McT = 1W

--------------

3. Other
Europa league

With McT = 4W 1D
Without McT = 2W 1D 1L

------------

4. Conclusion?
So turns it's just pure coincidence that with McT, we never lost against the big teams and the two top 5 contenders.
Stats showed we are more likely to get points with McT against them, and more likely to lose without him.

But that's just pure coincidence.

Still a rubbish player
Yes, pure coincidence. We were on our way to defeat at Spurs.
 

roonster09

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
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Yes, pure coincidence. We were on our way to defeat at Spurs.
I dont understand why people keep saying this, we didnt lose and we have no idea what would have happened if Pogba didn't come on. Point is we didnt lose.

It's like saying "Yeah Wenger went undefeated but he would have lost if not for Henry's magic or Pires dive".

McTominay doesn't suit all games but he is more suited for big games where he gets space and his work rate is of more use.
 

romufc

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Messages
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So turns it's just pure coincidence that with McT, we never lost against the big teams and the two top 5 contenders.
Stats showed we are more likely to get points with McT against them, and more likely to lose without him.

But that's just pure coincidence.

Still a rubbish player
Fans on here have short memory. McTominay is used for his aggression, tackling and bite he brings to this team.

He is in his 2nd full year in the prem, played as CB, CM and now Ole expects him to be CDM. Well in his CM role double pivoting he looked impressive.

Now that we have Pogba and Bruno, he cannot play the same role so he needs to adjust. No player that young can adjust his role in 60 mins of football. He needs to understand the position, ofcourse he will be caught out of possession sometimes.

All this talk about Matic being fantastic, he makes a mistake that leads to a chance in every game.
 

Dike_Manc

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Jan 24, 2017
Messages
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Limited player, yes but he's way better than the performances he's put in post lockdown. He's just out of form at the moment.