[The_Dark_Knight]

He’s absolutely shite, Irelands championship midfield destroyed him in their last international. There’s a reason why we are not battling for titles, let alone top four or trophies and one of the reasons is we have players like Scott Mctominay starting week in week out who are not good enough and never will be. He’s bottom 5 premier league quality at best but I reckon he’s a championship player. He’s absolutely shocking. I reckon Fred with a decent partner beside him could do wonders this year.

Are you referring to the Scotland vs Ireland match?

Yeah. Ireland played better and deserved to win. If you want to single out Scott McTominay for the worst Scotland performance in around 6 years, go for it.

Singling out one United player is short sighted. How many times did United fans think that signing new players will make a difference? Di Maria made no difference. Pogba didn't. We even regressed with Varane being in the team.

Zero Manchester United players have progressed in the past 3+ years. Only De Gea and Ronaldo have delivered.

So, to single out one player, and blaming him for all of United's ills and ailments is little more than a classic witch hunt. But again, if you want to do that, you do you.

Personally, I'll hold the entire squad accountable. As would I hold Ole and his coaches to account.

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

That’s lovely, but McTominay actually is pretty shite. I don’t think this fact and the poor coaching that may have taken place over the years are linked.

Watching "The United Way", SAF brought in players who had the proper epigenetic.

I'd give more credence to the man who shaped the modern Manchester United than a few torch and pitchfork welding "fans" who are all about blame culture.

If McTominay (or any of the United squad) wilt and wither under the guidance of ETH, then fair enough, get rid, but till that day happens, everyone has a clean slate.

 

[Keefy18]

I didn't say it was. Jose was brilliant for Scott. As opposed to Ole. I can't name a single player who has progressed under the guidance of Ole.

Great. Are you one of these people who bring Roy Keane into these types of debates? Did you know that Roy Keane was a natural leader at 19 and he raised up his team mates and didn't need to be coached?

I disagree, Paul Scholes could tackle. He was in the Vinny Jones school of tackling.

The points stands, under Ole, for three years, we had one way of playing: counter attack football with zero ability to be able to construct moves, break down low blocks defense and I'm not even going to talk about the mass disorganisation.

I watched "The United Way" last night and heard how Ron Atkinson coached the team. Take out mass levels of alcohol and it's just the Ole way

What absolute rubbish. It's a well known fact he couldn't tackle if his life depended on it. Truly remarkable player, one of our best ever but he absolutely was a calamity and he knew himself if he was every needed to throw himself into a tackle a red card was certain.

Lukaku is the other obvious example having been at United in recent years, how many world class coaches has he had in his career?

There's certain aspects in players games you simple can't improve on so you do your best to negate it.

Scott hides from receiving a pass for one of two reasons 1) he hasn't a football brain to understand spatial awareness as he continually hides behind opposing players or 2) he knows he hasn't the skills or confidence to take a pass from the backline and utilize the ball efficiently.

Link below argues similar case to yours which I don't buy into myself, 9 mins defending Scott cause he doesn't want or know how to not stand behind a person to receive a pass so its Ole's fault. Ridiculous really.

 

[Kag]

Watching "The United Way", SAF brought in players who had the proper epigenetic.

I'd give more credence to the man who shaped the modern Manchester United than a few torch and pitchfork welding "fans" who are all about blame culture.

If McTominay (or any of the United squad) wilt and wither under the guidance of ETH, then fair enough, get rid, but till that day happens, everyone has a clean slate.

What are you prattling on about, really?

McTominay isn’t a very good midfielder. What has that got to do with Alex Ferguson or ‘the United way’?

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

What absolute rubbish. It's a well known fact he couldn't tackle if his life depended on it. Truly remarkable player, one of our best ever but he absolutely was a calamity and he knew himself if he was every needed to throw himself into a tackle a red card was certain.

Lukaku is the other obvious example having been at United in recent years, how many world class coaches has he had in his career?

There's certain aspects in players games you simple can't improve on so you do your best to negate it.

Scott hides from receiving a pass for one of two reasons 1) he hasn't a football brain to understand spatial awareness as he continually hides behind opposing players or 2) he knows he hasn't the skills or confidence to take a pass from the backline and utilize the ball efficiently.

Link below argues similar case to yours which I don't buy into myself, 9 mins defending Scott cause he doesn't want or know how to not stand behind a person to receive a pass so its Ole's fault. Ridiculous really.

Yeah. One more insult and I'll just call it. There's no real point trying to have a reasonably debate with someone who opens their reply with "Absolute rubbish".

No. Scholes had absolute malace when it came to tackling. Saying that "Scholes couldn't tackle" is like saying that he never meant to get the man. He did. I remember Roy Keane saying as much.

Lukaku is as example of joining the wrong club when he went to Chelsea. If you're talking about his development, he's one of those few players who has never really had the desire to be the best. You could see it in his early days at Chelsea.

He's been coached by three world class managers (Conte, Mourinho and Tuchell), the last two have wanted nothing to do with him.

Spacial awareness can be coached. Yes, there are certain players were that skill cones natural (Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, etc) but some players need to be coached it.

I've seen a player be at Motherwell (Paul Lambert) never winning a cap for Scotland, at 28 years of age, join Borussia Dormund, within a year of being coached by a world class manager, he has a European Cup Winner's medal in one pocket and Zinedine Zidane in the other.

We should know. He bossed Scholes in the semi final of that year's European Cup.

Managers can make a difference. Otmar Hitzfeld turned Paul Lambert from a tidy attacking midfielder to a world class anchorman within months.

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

What are you prattling on about, really?

McTominay isn’t a very good midfielder. What has that got to do with Alex Ferguson or ‘the United way’?

You don't know what epigenetics means?

In layman's terms, SAF signed players with good stock.* He green lighted Scott McTominay's signing, and quite recent endorsement, so you're essentially dissing SAF.

Same goes with Darren Fletcher, actually. Apparently, the majority of United fans knew better than Sir Alex Ferguson.

Do you know how you learn? By listening and stop talking.

*Greenwood went off the rails after SAF left. And as for Giggs, well, that's a whole different story.

 

[Kag]

You don't know what epigenetics means?

In layman's terms, SAF signed players with good stock. He green lighted Scott McTominay's signing, and quite recent endorsement, so you're essentially dissing SAF.

Same goes with Darren Fletcher, actually. Apparently, the majority of United fans knew better than Sir Alex Ferguson.

Do you know how you learn? By listening and stop talking.

Quit the vocabulary charge; it makes you look a little silly.

On the subject of McTominay, which is what the conversation is really about, he signed a professional contract the year Ferguson left the club. He was 16.

As for the bizarre link to Darren Fletcher, it’s lazy. Fletcher was a good midfielder. For a period, he was very good. McTominay is not.

You would do well to make a simple point and attempt to back it up.

 

[Rozay]

That’s lovely, but McTominay actually is pretty shite. I don’t think this fact and the poor coaching that may have taken place over the years are linked.

He’s almost certainly received far better coaching from childhood til’ now than he would have at the likes of Burnley or Norwich where he belongs. He absolutely cannot point to any sort of coaching disadvantage. In addition to playing under coaches and managers who have far more impressive CVs than he does - he’s also played and trained daily alongside players like Pogba, Matic, Mata, Ronaldo, Sancho for years yet he still can’t pass to his teammates with any consistency.

 

[Keefy18]

No. Scholes had absolute malace when it came to tackling. Saying that "Scholes couldn't tackle" is like saying that he never meant to get the man. He did. I remember Roy Keane saying as much.

Here's the man himself admitting he had no "malace" or in his words "red mist".

'I have just been unlucky,' he said. 'I never had red mist against anybody.

'The one against Zabaleta, I didn't do on purpose. It was just bad timing. The ball was up there and the way your leg goes it has to come down and unfortunately it came down on his leg.

'I would never intentionally try to hurt somebody. Nobody has ever had to go off following one of my tackles and nobody has broken their leg. I have never been nasty.'

And some of his work to jog the memory. He simply could not learn how to tackle. I watched the kid from his debut to his final match, didn't miss to many of his games and it was something not part of his game at all.

Lukaku is as example of joining the wrong club when he went to Chelsea. If you're talking about his development, he's one of those few players who has never really had the desire to be the best. You could see it in his early days at Chelsea.

Here's Lukaku believing his is up there with the very best. Sounds very much like he believes he has has the desire, wouldn't you agree?

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

He's been coached by three world class managers (Conte, Mourinho and Tuchell), the last two have wanted nothing to do with him.

Agreed, but it doesn't negate the point I'm trying to make.

Certain skills can't be taught to certain players for any number of reasons. Could be the lack of desire you mention, could simply be they don't understand it ( how many people can't learn to play an instrument for example for all the trying in the world?).

Spacial awareness can be coached. Yes, there are certain players were that skill cones natural (Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, etc) but some players need to be coached it.

To some yes it can, I have seen evidence of Ole time and time again instructing him early on, one game in particular vs Palace during lockdown Scott was having one of his usual nightmares and the game passing him by as it usually does... Ole reefed him in during the water break and instructed him and of course you saw a marked improvement... temporarily.

The lad needs to be spoon feed as I originally say. This is the key thing here, he's 5 years into a pro career and not learned it from how many managers & coaches at Club and International level.

Scotland seem to have learned quickly enough he's about as useful as a choccy teapot in that deep midfield role, so turned him around and have him in a back 3 most the time. If I was ETH I'd try him there for a few games if playing a back 3.

Otherwise his next best use is Fellaini 2.0. A physically imposing target man up top to change a game. He's aerial performance data is very good to be fair to him. He's 6'4, good leap and hang time so its where I would consider him.

 

[clarkydaz]

You don't know what epigenetics means?

In layman's terms, SAF signed players with good stock.* He green lighted Scott McTominay's signing, and quite recent endorsement, so you're essentially dissing SAF.

Same goes with Darren Fletcher, actually. Apparently, the majority of United fans knew better than Sir Alex Ferguson.

Do you know how you learn? By listening and stop talking.

*Greenwood went off the rails after SAF left. And as for Giggs, well, that's a whole different story.

Do you know who Darren Ferguson is?

 

[Keefy18]

You would do well to make a simple point and attempt to back it up.

He just wants to bring SAF up in every single comment for no apparent reason.

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

Quit the vocabulary charge; it makes you look a little silly.

On the subject of McTominay, which is what the conversation is really about, he signed a professional contract the year Ferguson left the club. He was 16.

As for the bizarre link to Darren Fletcher, it’s lazy. Fletcher was a good midfielder. For a period, he was very good. McTominay is not.

You would do well to make a simple point and attempt to back it up.

If you have a problem with my vocabulary then that's a you problem.

Who said anything about professional contracts? He was training with United since he was 5 years old. (Since 2006)

Nope. The constant abuse that Darren Fletcher received was a bit sick. Funny how you say that he was better than McTominay, as yet Fletcher received far more abuse than McTominay ever will.

As I said previously, if Scott McTominay (or any United player) fails to progress as a player under the guidance of Erik Ten Hag, then perhaps he should leave for new pastures.

If you want to sell every player who has flopped for United for the past few years, then fine, I'm not sure that will leave us with a squad big enough to fulfil the match requirements.

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

Here's the man himself admitting he had no "malace" or in his words "red mist".

Really? The man in question said that? The man in question also said:

"Of course I can tackle,’ he said. ‘There’s plenty of evidence of me being able to tackle.
‘I was just getting people back. If someone got me early in the game, it was always in the back of my mind that I needed to get them back. I didn’t always do it on purpose. Some of it was just bad timing.’"

With that, it negates your "It's a well known fact he couldn't tackle if his life depended on it" and it adds credence to my "Scholes tackled with malace".

Paul Scholes was a more placid Roy Keane.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....urse-I-tackle--I-crunched-people-revenge.html

Here's Lukaku believing his is up there with the very best. Sounds very much like he believes he has has the desire, wouldn't you agree?

Maybe you're confusing desire with delusion. You think a player who gets 7 touches in a match against Crystal Palace is evidence of "desire"?

If you think it unreasonable for a Manchester United fan to support Manchester United players and give it a "wait and see" attitude, then I think we're obviously working on two different levels. I'm not just sticking up for McTominay, I'm willing to give the entire squad a clean slate.

As far as McTominay playing for Scotland. Yes, he plays in a back three because McGregor, Gilmour and McGinn are more trustworthy in midfield, but I'm hoping upon hope that McTominay improves under ETH, both as a United fan as well as a Scotland fan.

I swear to God, no one criticises and abuses their own players more than United fans. Personally, I'm not into it.

How about supporting the players? Radical proposal, I know.

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

Do you know who Darren Ferguson is?

I do. He's the player who Darren Fletcher haters mistook for "The manager's son".

The "Darren" thing must've been confusing.

(Darren Ferguson was a decent squad member)