I agree, but people posting a player losing a ball proves nothing.
You can find numerous clips of every player losing possession.
The problem is there is no replacement for McTominay, we need to get one in Jan.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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You can find numerous clips of every player losing possession.
The problem is there is no replacement for McTominay, we need to get one in Jan.
It's not even that he's been poor all season. When has he ever really been good enough for United? At no point in his career for us have you ever thought or seen that there was a great player there, he's a squad player at most, and even that is generous. It's the same with Lingard, when has he ever played consistently well enough to be considered a starter for this club? That one purple patch his entire career, that's it. These players are getting by on Homegrown academy tax, if they played for other clubs we'd be nowhere near them
I was being nice
I don't agree with that to be honest. What is it that he offers, especially in current form, not someone else can't? He doesn't offer himself up for passes and he doesn't track midfield runners, he's also not a holder.
He sometimes transitions the ball well, and he runs a lot, well ok, but he doesn't press effectively and he is always vacating his position and leaving the defence exposed...
I'm convinced VDB would offer a lot more than him in the midfield especially given his current form.
Yes we need a midfielder in Jan agree though
Hell i'd rather give one of the other youngsters a go if the excuse is that we don't have much else besides McTominay to go with, like you just said, it's not like he offers much anyway so how much worse can one of our youngsters play?
If you pause the vid after one second you see the pass most Premier League midfielders would've made
Nowhere near as poor as people here say. Had a very good piece of play to set up Dalot's shot.
He'll be a great squad player for the next 5-6 years but we do need an upgrade.
He'll be a great squad player for the next 5-6 years but we do need an upgrade.
Nice balanced post.
Okay, if that is the case, what other player in our squad will offer more in that position?
VDB is a completely different player, the position they play is not remotely similar.
Scott has been playing as a deeper 2, so he is there to protect the defence, we haven't done too badly in the last week.
Donny has not shown ever that he can play that role, which is why Ole, Carrick and now Ralf all don't deploy him there.
better players get more leeway. shouldn’t be shocking. Moreover, where did you get the shouldn’t play thing from? Granted I think he’s a bum, but all I posted was a vid highlighting glaring weaknesses in his game. He could probably get some game time in the FA Cup and league cups and whatnot
Likewise your post 1827!
So you are a better judge as to who is a good player and who isn't?
Because McT has been playing under Jose, Ole, Carrick and Ralf.
I really don't know what people are on about.
The manager has said what he wants from the midfield 2 in this system, it couldn't be clearer. It's not elaborate buildup or spraying wonderful passes, those are just a bonus. It's getting close to people, winning the ball, having the physicality to work your arse off for 90 mins and getting the ball to the front 4 who are far better footballers. In these departments McT is not bad. He's not great, he can be improved upon of course but it's fairly obvious that within our squad he suits the role.
We're not going to play DVB in a midfield 2 with Bruno and Sancho ahead, he's more likely to play in the advanced 2 and has more of a shot at game time as a result. Matic will have to play some out of necessity but is very unsuited.
The manager has said what he wants from the midfield 2 in this system, it couldn't be clearer. It's not elaborate buildup or spraying wonderful passes, those are just a bonus. It's getting close to people, winning the ball, having the physicality to work your arse off for 90 mins and getting the ball to the front 4 who are far better footballers. In these departments McT is not bad. He's not great, he can be improved upon of course but it's fairly obvious that within our squad he suits the role.
We're not going to play DVB in a midfield 2 with Bruno and Sancho ahead, he's more likely to play in the advanced 2 and has more of a shot at game time as a result. Matic will have to play some out of necessity but is very unsuited.
Make a forum poll and ask who’s a better player in comparison to their peers in the positions they play between Mctominay and the names you mentioned before, and see where the consensus lands.
Also, kinda comical to name drop managers as if they are infallible, when the reason you’re able to mention so many names is the fact they failed and had to be replaced. Maybe not the best decision making?
Plus, we don’t have many options in that part of the midfield so he’ll always get gamesBut he doesn't so whats the point of him?
A fan poll is based on opinion and agenda. If you ask fans who is the better player, Henderson or Pogba, I know what the answer will be but if you asked managers not armchair managers, I also know who they'd take.Make a forum poll and ask who’s a better player in comparison to their peers in the positions they play between Mctominay and the names you mentioned before, and see where the consensus lands.
Also, kinda comical to name drop managers as if they are infallible, when the reason you’re able to mention so many names is the fact they failed and had to be replaced. Maybe not the best decision making?
I can also guarantee all them managers have way more coaching experience and badges than you. So yes, I rather make my decision based on professionals than ones who have FIFA as their coaching experience.
That's the point, if there are better players and Scott is so bad, shouldn't they be able to do a better job? The fact they aren't shows how crap they are too
This is the problem. Alot of fans think because he is the CDM he is solely responsible for protecting the defence when in reality, thats not how football works.
I am in no way or shape arguing in favour of McTominay, I think we can do alot better but in the current squad, there is no one who can do that role better.
Yeah, because he has no other option. He will be the first player he will replace.
you don’t. you believe your biases would be confirmed by managers but there’s no indication or way you can assert this. Pogba is an international player, regular starter at that, for one of the best international sides, and largely lauded as one of the best midfielders around by both his playing peers and managers, with the exception being Mourinho. He’s also a starter for United. Jordan Henderson is a good player that comes on for Liverpool sometimes. Ridiculous to suggest managers in large would choose Henderson over Pogba with no grounds for said suggestion.
You absolutely can’t. You could be talking to Ferguson right now for all you know. Moreover, personal attacks won’t make Mctominay a better player. This is another of the many weird lines of argumentation you’ve chosen. Starting from name dropping managers as if they are infallible, which is evidently not true. Also, at which point did I ask you for your decision or try to persuade you? I do not care. You quoted me and I simply replied. I posted a video showing Mctominay’s weaknesses and you started rambling about “should he not play?” Which, again, was not an assertion I’ve made. I hope you’re not drunk, and in full control of your cognitive abilities.
I don’t know why your reading comprehension is failing you this badly. I didn’t say he should not play. You created that scenario and have been arguing against it by yourself. Kind of bizarre, really. Again, we do not have many first team options in that part of the pitch, Mctominay will get games by default, that doesn’t mean he’s a good player or someone that we shouldn’t upgrade on.
I know right...
Talk of using an out of context video to push confirmation bias
I don't agree
Who can?
Shows you have no clue on anything outside of United. Henderson is actually Liverpool's captain. I won't waste my time because he is one of the first names on the team sheets, ask any Liverpool fan. I am not here for United Bias. You have clearly shown your knowledge of outside of United.
Where have I said personal attacks? are you reading things? McTominay's weakness is passing? You posted one failed video, in a game which every player had a failed pass. Which is why I put a ? You can have a go at my comprehension skills but fail to understand what a ? is.
Again, like I said, I am not against upgrading McTominay. Why don't you have the same energy for Sancho? Bruno? Ronaldo?
The issue with this is that McTominay isn't actually very good at pressing or workrate. He's made to look better than he is because his direct competitors are Pogba and Matic (who are both even worse), but when comparing him to other midfielders he's comfortably below average. This season so far he is in the bottom 31% of all midfielders in the top 5 leagues for how often he attempts to press, which is actually an improvement over last season (bottom 21%) and the previous season (bottom 5%
).What he is quite good at is blocking and intercepting passes. But in total when I went through most of the decent midfielders in the league last season, Scott was 20th for winning the ball back out of 26 players. That's with interceptions, winning tackles and successful presses all added together. The only midfielders who won the ball back less than him per game were Xhaka, Sissoko, Soucek, Matic, Tielemans and Pogba. The fact that we had three of the bottom seven really highlights part of our issue, and also how reliant we are on Fred in that regard (who was the third best behind only Ndidi and Kante).
Scott might improve with proper coaching now under Rangnick, but he needs to because if he's not very good at that aspect then he really doesn't bring anything else to compensate.
Henderson being Liverpool captain is news to? Do you think you broke an exclusive there or something? How is that mutually exclusive with what I said? and clearly I’ve been responding to you in a mocking manner throughout. Also, none of this has got anything to do with the notion you pulled out of thin air that managers would choose Henderson over Pogba and tried to push as a certified thing
you’ve made condescending references to FIFA. That’s what’s referred to as a personal attack. In my day I was more of a PES guy any way. Much more into shooters these days, but erm you know nothing about me. Let’s stick to discussing how much of a bum Mctominay is, please.
Why would a video showcasing a passage of play involving Mctominay prompt a silly question such as “I Saw Sancho, Bruno all give away balls too, does that mean they shouldn't play?” The implication in that statement is that it was suggested Mctominay shouldn’t play, hence the question regarding the people you mentioned. Let’s not be shameless, please.
Who says I don’t? This is the Mctominay thread. If you want to discuss those other players go to their respective threads. I reserve the right to talk about the players I want to talk about, and like I said before, I give more leeway to players I consider better, something else I reserve the right to.
VDB and he has shown he can play there before. And its premature to say Rangnick won’t play him there because he cant based on picking a team after half a training session.
Anyway in my opinion McTominay doesnt do his job
Pogba does a better job than him in the same role too IMO
And here I thought I was being considerate by not posting a compilation
I like McT and think he’d be a decent squad option but he’s clearly the “weaker link” in the preferred system, Ralf’s or Ole’s. Has some good attributes but think we ought to aim higher for a starting position in United’s midfield.
In a disciplined 4-2-2-2 formation Van de Beek could easily play as 6 alongside Fred, especially against a team that sits back. In fact it's the perfect role for him given his strengths. You make out like McTominay didn't make any forward runs himself v Palace, he did and when he did Fred took turn sitting deeper. The same would happen if a disciplined VDB played there as well, all you have to do is let him know he has to play behind possession instead of in front of it like he has every time he's played in the double pivot. He can do everything McTominay can and better, so there's no way McTominay can play that position and VDB can't.
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nah even in real time it was a pathetic play. Then he had the audacity to blame the other player
Was immediately noticeable that we played with loads more verticality/directness. Rangnick even calls out the 2 times they played square passes. Basically he doesn't want Fred and McTominay to play a single square pass to each other. Can't hate that too much.Tweet
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Even looking at the passmap, very little of the square passes between them, very direct and attacking through the wings. Good to see.
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Referring to the Twitter video....
Get your point this isn't good enough for Manchester United but there's another united MF who would have many more of these videos who is riding a golden wave and has his supporters regardless how many times he does this in a game. Everyone is on the Fred bandwagon at the minute and thank God I am happy to admit I'm delighted to see him turn a corner recently but in my opinion Scott has far more attributes and I'd rather have Scott any day. If fred reverts back to typical careless way ill not be delighted to say to the fred fanclub 'told you so' but i cant help feel he is so limited compared to scotts potential. Scott too, hopefully, will turn a corner and prove himself and when he does we will see his worth. I've faith in him
Get your point this isn't good enough for Manchester United but there's another united MF who would have many more of these videos who is riding a golden wave and has his supporters regardless how many times he does this in a game. Everyone is on the Fred bandwagon at the minute and thank God I am happy to admit I'm delighted to see him turn a corner recently but in my opinion Scott has far more attributes and I'd rather have Scott any day. If fred reverts back to typical careless way ill not be delighted to say to the fred fanclub 'told you so' but i cant help feel he is so limited compared to scotts potential. Scott too, hopefully, will turn a corner and prove himself and when he does we will see his worth. I've faith in him
I found this to be a very sensible view, nicely stated. I think the reality is that McTominay and Fred both have not been used in their preferred positions (or even positions they are good at playing). Those two have been forced to complement each other's style of play but they aren't a natural pairing or even a particularly good pairing, as neither one is a defensive player. I am glad to watch RR work his magic on these two (and the entire side in general), to see a balanced team that is set up to enhance the players' strengths not exploit their weaknesses.
And for those saying "if he wasn't an academy player", what is football if not a sport about sentimentality? Why do we care about the club's history and those who have been brought up from infancy to be United (like Lingard)? McTominay, in my view, was thrown in before he was ready and has done admirably. There might be a marmite thing going on with Fred and McTominay, you love or hate them, and if so I'm pro-McTominay. While Fred did have a MOTM performance against Palace, he's far too erratic and sloppy in Ole's system, so hopefully RR gets him playing to his strengths as well. Fred's main thing to work on is his making quick decisions. Both of them are what they are in terms of skill level, it's just getting their footballing brains to click that is the key.
Well he sees something we dont. Would love to know what it is.
"If you play the way we did with regard to intensity, being on the front foot, playing proactively and having four offensive players, it's highly important you have players behind who are very disciplined and proactively aggressive against the ball," said Rangnick. "Scotty [McTominay] and Fred are almost perfect defensively."
"If you play the way we did with regard to intensity, being on the front foot, playing proactively and having four offensive players, it's highly important you have players behind who are very disciplined and proactively aggressive against the ball," said Rangnick. "Scotty [McTominay] and Fred are almost perfect defensively."
As RR's comments, he's not going to slate a player publicly, which is what we would expect. It wasn't McTominay's worst performance by any means, but it was hardly a display that would lift the eyebrows of Pep, Klopp or Tuchel, or even any of the next six managers whose clubs we're going to face.
It's not likely we're going to do any business in January, but as soon as it's possible to do so we need to upgrade on McTominay. Until then, the rest of the squad will have to carry him.
It's not likely we're going to do any business in January, but as soon as it's possible to do so we need to upgrade on McTominay. Until then, the rest of the squad will have to carry him.
Think his time is limited along with rashford unfortunately. Sincerely hope Newcastle are interested.
Clearly a WUM mate. Or you don't know what you're talking about.
It's clear as day that armchair-fans dont rate Hendo because he aint flashy, been that for years. But have a cool haircut and a bit of flair like Pogba and you're world class.
Your point is based on a faulty premise - that Scott isn't good at pressing because he hasn't done it much this season.The issue with this is that McTominay isn't actually very good at pressing or workrate. He's made to look better than he is because his direct competitors are Pogba and Matic (who are both even worse), but when comparing him to other midfielders he's comfortably below average. This season so far he is in the bottom 31% of all midfielders in the top 5 leagues for how often he attempts to press, which is actually an improvement over last season (bottom 21%) and the previous season (bottom 5%
What he is quite good at is blocking and intercepting passes. But in total when I went through most of the decent midfielders in the league last season, Scott was 20th for winning the ball back out of 26 players. That's with interceptions, winning tackles and successful presses all added together. The only midfielders who won the ball back less than him per game were Xhaka, Sissoko, Soucek, Matic, Tielemans and Pogba. The fact that we had three of the bottom seven really highlights part of our issue, and also how reliant we are on Fred in that regard (who was the third best behind only Ndidi and Kante).
Scott might improve with proper coaching now under Rangnick, but he needs to because if he's not very good at that aspect then he really doesn't bring anything else to compensate.
He's been given the deeper sitting role under Ole, even though its not his area of expertise, because he's the best we've got there (except for Matic who has no legs left.
What does this have to do with Mctominay?
weirdos in the Mctominay thread banging keyboard about Pogba haircuts. feck’s sake
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