[Marwood]

Unfortunately we’re so poor in the air as a team it’s a hard decision to not play him in every game. I don’t think he’s a particularly good header of the ball but he is at least tall. Take him off the pitch and we’re basically hoping that Varane single-handedly wins every single header in our box. While our goalkeeper stays rooted to his line. That won’t end well.

Even having Lukaku or Ronaldo would help us a lot. Van Persie used to win a lot of headers from set-pieces and corners too. Rashford, Sancho and Antony could all go months without winning a header, anywhere on the pitch.

That's a really good point.

We'd be uniquely bad in the air if McTominay is dropped.

 

[Shane88]

At about 23:50, he is in space in midfield. There's an overload for us on the left side. Rashford and I think, Bruno. McTominay sprays a ball out there and puts it perfectly in between them both to the City defender.

A waster poisoning us every week in midfield. He must purely be there for physical attributes because he cannot, simply cannot, be getting picked on football ability.

 

[Seij]

That's a really good point.

We'd be uniquely bad in the air if McTominay is dropped.

Not sure why he wasn't covering Haaland on corners though? He was the only one who is Haaland's size on our team.

 

[Marwood]

Not sure why he wasn't covering Haaland on corners though? He was the only one who is Haaland's size on our team.

He was. Haaland beat McTominay for the goal.

Teams just use smaller players as a road block to slow them down, then the bigger guy eventually takes up the marking in the danger zone.

I don't particularly like it but Eriksen wasn't marking Haaland. He's just there to get in the way a bit before a bigger guy takes over.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

If ETH can't see that McTominay is simply not good enough than we are in big trouble, Fred the big game palyer again on the bench, Casemiro multiple champions league winner on the bench, yet we play this shite Scottish premiership standard player because he's built like an MMA fighter and has as much quality on the ball.

McT is like a wizzard because he makes other managers believe that he can somehow do a defensive work and be an okay passer. While he's a shambolic in defending, all over the place with bad positioning, always late to the tackle, covering ground slowly.

And then comes his passing inablity, he either doesn't show up for the ball at all, causing major issues in our build up play, coward. Thenhe gives the ball away so easily even with simple passes. That's really a really depressive if ETh can't judge him properly and will insist on playing him. That will eventually cost him his job too, and we will have to watch dreadful backwards football the next two season..

 

[Rozay]

Unfortunately we’re so poor in the air as a team it’s a hard decision to not play him in every game. I don’t think he’s a particularly good header of the ball but he is at least tall. Take him off the pitch and we’re basically hoping that Varane single-handedly wins every single header in our box. While our goalkeeper stays rooted to his line. That won’t end well.

Even having Lukaku or Ronaldo would help us a lot. Van Persie used to win a lot of headers from set-pieces and corners too. Rashford, Sancho and Antony could all go months without winning a header, anywhere on the pitch.

Casemiro is actually better in the air than him, and Martial is also very good at defensive headers and I imagine he will be integrated into the team too.

 

[Seij]

He was. Haaland beat McTominay for the goal.

Teams just use smaller players as a road block to slow them down, then the bigger guy eventually takes up the marking in the danger zone.

I don't particularly like it but Eriksen wasn't marking Haaland. He's just there to get in the way a bit before a bigger guy takes over.

While Haaland beat Mctominay for that header, it didn't look like McTominay even knew where Haaland was leading to that goal.

 

[Eplel]

He was poor today but come on, City's midfield is levels above ours. Eriksen was much worse if we're picking out individuals.

Here's the point though:
Eriksen can do a few things in the pitch that McT cannot even dream of. Eriksen is in the game because he can produce key passes and create goal scoring opportunities.

McT is in the game to disrupt the opponents game, and even at that, he's rubbish. And not only he's rubbish defensively, he also creates liabilities for his teammates, by not doing one of the key things you should expect by someone at his position - help retain possesion.

 

[Marwood]

While Haaland beat Mctominay for that header, it didn't look like McTominay even knew where Haaland was leading to that goal.

Agree McTominay was poor. He's in that area for a reason and didn't do his job. Never seen him look so overwhelmed in a big game.

But that's how we and other teams defend corners. Maguire often doesn't directly mark anyone either and he's our best asset in the air.

We have the smaller blokes be a bit of a nuisance to the oppositions big guys further away from goal. Get in their way a bit, disrupt their momentum hopefully.

Then when Haaland or whoever approaches the danger area we have our bigger guys ready in that zone to pick them up.

People see Eriksen near Haaland and assume he's marking him. He's not. He's just temporarily holding him up(didn't work one bit). When Haaland makes his move McTominay was there waiting for him(didn't work one bit).

 

[Beachryan]

I can see why you play McT in this match. He's been alright this season, and should be fired up for the derby in a way perhaps others aren't.

But this is a reminder to all that having specialist, technical midfielders will always mop the floor with 'effort' and 'pashun' or whatever McT is supposed to bring.

Desperate to see him benched for a while. Seems like a fairly nice bloke, but the thought of him being a first choice midfielder is insulting.

None of City's midfielders have his strength, height or likely ability to yell really loudly. But they're all much better at football.

 

[Luka Mora]

I can see why you play McT in this match. He's been alright this season, and should be fired up for the derby in a way perhaps others aren't.

But this is a reminder to all that having specialist, technical midfielders will always mop the floor with 'effort' and 'pashun' or whatever McT is supposed to bring.

Desperate to see him benched for a while. Seems like a fairly nice bloke, but the thought of him being a first choice midfielder is insulting.

None of City's midfielders have his strength, height or likely ability to yell really loudly. But they're all much better at football.

agreed he isn't a first team player for a top team, needs to be used as squad player, he'll never be world class through pashun and workrate along. A solid consistent stand in against lesser teams or when we are playing at home against grafters he has a place.

City midfielders just toyed with him and looked like they were pissing about in the park with him on the field

 

[croadyman]

Get on that bench now, honeymoon is over

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Some of yall in here a plain full of shit. Halaand scored his header from a corner with Varane off pitch injured, resulting in McTominay having to man mark someone. Namely Gundogan. That is how Erling was able to steal way from Ericksen and then have no one to stop him. For yall to laughably claim " he had no clue where Halaand was and supposedly 'let him go' shows how some of you are just full of agenda driven drivel. Eager to blame players you have issue with for everything when things go bad for the team.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

As for Scott. He was overh whelmed and over run unsurprisingly. We were asking for trouble trying to play him alone as the sole defensive shield City's mid. field away from home. He has never had the defensive nous to pull such off. He pretty much fared as expected. His rings around him and by the time he got the ball, his head was still spinning so was never going to be of much use on it. I hope the next time we face a side that good away we start Casemiro with one other defensive minded midfielder. Not Fred nor Scott alone

 

[Raven]

He's been very good this season but yesterday was a shocker.

 

[Bobski]

Whoscored actually had him as our 3rd best player after Antony and Martial, but then most of their scoring metrics are questionable at best.

 

[Tibs]

Needs to be super glued to the bench.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Did well against Liverpool & Arsenal, but was very shocking today and fell back to his bad habits of hiding, lack of defensive awareness and his lack of passing range.

 

[11101]

As soon as saw the lineup with him alone in midfield, and Rashford up top I knew we were done for. We never control midfield with him there. Even against Liverpool and Arsenal, he played well to break things up but it was still us letting them control things in the middle and hitting them on the break. That's never going to work long term and teams like City will run us in circles if we try it.

 

[Idxomer]

I would be tempted to try him at the back against Omonia at least with Varane out.

 

[Bebestation]

Would have been better playing with a CDM partner.

 

[DutchCruijff]

How many matches has McTominay started in?

And how many of those matches have we actually dominated/controlled the game?

We CANNOT control a game with someone of his calibre in the middle.

 

[Diamond Chap]

Here we go. Come on lads, let it all out, all those weeks of having to grudgingly acknowledge McTominay playing well, all that pent up vitriol.

McTominay was one of our better players - not that that is saying much because the entire team was shit. He gave the ball away poorly a couple of times which Neville picked up on, so naturally whipped the Caf into a frenzy. Defensively he made several good contributions in the first half, playing as basically a one-man midfield against Manchester fecking City.

It was obvious this was a game to drop one of Bruno or Eriksen to get that extra defensive midfielder in, although hindsight is 20/20. The likes of Sancho, Antony, Rashford, Bruno and Eriksen (I.e. the entire rest of the midfield and attack) as well as the full backs were all much worse than Scott in that first half.

This post, I agree with 100%.
Neville also didn't mention McTominay when he made the two quick fire clearances.
Our backs were against the wall, and it's lazy to just blame McTominay, he wasn't the real issue.

 

[Diamond Chap]

While Haaland beat Mctominay for that header, it didn't look like McTominay even knew where Haaland was leading to that goal.

Haaland will probably beat anyone in the air.
He is tall, and exceptionally good aerially.

 

[JeffFromHK]

This post, I agree with 100%.
Neville also didn't mention McTominay when he made the two quick fire clearances.
Our backs were against the wall, and it's lazy to just blame McTominay, he wasn't the real issue.

Average passes per 90 minutes 22-23
Bruno Fernandes 46
Eriksen 47
McTominay 29

Xhaka 50
Fabinho 59
Rodri 92

Tell me how a CDM/CM, the single ONE position of all 11 positions where a player is supposed to receive passes the most, with an average of 29 passes per game not being an issue?

He just keep refusing to move out from the cover shadow all the time and fails to make himself a passing option for teammates. It kills fluidity. He is the best actor of all time, who successfully deceives coaches and fans into thinking that he is a "hard worker" while he isn't.

 

[saivet]

Average passes per 90 minutes 22-23
Bruno Fernandes 46
Eriksen 47
McTominay 29

Xhaka 50
Fabinho 59
Rodri 92

Tell me how a CDM/CM, the single ONE position of all 11 positions where a player is supposed to receive passes the most, with an average of 29 passes per game not being an issue?

He just keep refusing to move out from the cover shadow all the time and fails to make himself a passing option for teammates. It kills fluidity. He is the best actor of all time, who successfully deceives coaches and fans into thinking that he is a "hard worker" while he isn't.

One of the reasons why we don't and won't dominate the ball while he's playing. It's not to say be offers nothing but if he's your deepest midfield you are automatically starting at a disadvantage if you want your side to dominate possession.

He has a few but it's his biggest limitation and luckily for him it's not as obvious as having low passing accuracy or not winning duels.

 

[Diamond Chap]

Average passes per 90 minutes 22-23
Bruno Fernandes 46
Eriksen 47
McTominay 29

Xhaka 50
Fabinho 59
Rodri 92

Tell me how a CDM/CM, the single ONE position of all 11 positions where a player is supposed to receive passes the most, with an average of 29 passes per game not being an issue?

He just keep refusing to move out from the cover shadow all the time and fails to make himself a passing option for teammates. It kills fluidity. He is the best actor of all time, who successfully deceives coaches and fans into thinking that he is a "hard worker" while he isn't.

We were outclassed from the 1st minute.
The entire team lost its shape and couldn't string 2 passes together.
McTominay spent almost all of his time covering the defence, much of it in our penalty box.
Fernandes and Eriksen created virtually nothing with their passes, and lost the ball fairly regularly.

 

[JeffFromHK]

We were outclassed from the 1st minute.
The entire team lost its shape and couldn't string 2 passes together.
McTominay spent almost all of his time covering the defence, much of it in our penalty box.
Fernandes and Eriksen created virtually nothing with their passes, and lost the ball fairly regularly.

1. My stat is NOT only about the game vs Man City.
2. My stat is abut McTominay always not making himself available for passes, those "created virtually nothing with their passes, and lost the ball fairly regularly.", even if valid perhaps, are irrelevant to my point.

 

[RedRonaldo]

It seems all our managers rated him highly, which is strange.

Mourinho brings him into our first team as a youngster.

Ole always preferred him and started the whole McFred midfield partnership.

Rangnick once said he is future captain of Man Utd and played him a lot.

ETH starts him over Casemiro, arguable the best DM in the world from reigning CL champion.

But most of our fans hated to see him on the pitch for us.

 

[croadyman]

It seems all our managers rated him highly, which is strange.

Mourinho brings him into our first team as a youngster.

Ole always preferred him and started the whole McFred midfield partnership.

Rangnick once said he is future captain of Man Utd and played him a lot.

ETH starts him over Casemiro, arguable the best DM in the world from reigning CL champion.

But most of our fans hated to see him on the pitch for us.

Yeah hopefully yesterday it's shown that he's definitely not good enough against the best

 

[lex talionis]

I’m ok with McTominay getting the starts that he has this season, but it’s time to go with Casemiro.

 

[Isotope]

When Varane was off injured, he was the tallest in our team. Then he went on to mark Gundogan during corner, instead of the City's most dangerous header for their 2nd goal.

Bad Scott.. that's badd..

Anyway.. saying that yesterday's game prove anything about our player's quality, we'd need a brand new starting XI then.

 

[Raven]

How many matches has McTominay started in?

And how many of those matches have we actually dominated/controlled the game?

We CANNOT control a game with someone of his calibre in the middle.

We were never going to control the game at the emtihad, regardless of who we started in midfield. Still a poor performance from him though.

 

[elmo]

Average passes per 90 minutes 22-23
Bruno Fernandes 46
Eriksen 47
McTominay 29

Xhaka 50
Fabinho 59
Rodri 92

Tell me how a CDM/CM, the single ONE position of all 11 positions where a player is supposed to receive passes the most, with an average of 29 passes per game not being an issue?

He just keep refusing to move out from the cover shadow all the time and fails to make himself a passing option for teammates. It kills fluidity. He is the best actor of all time, who successfully deceives coaches and fans into thinking that he is a "hard worker" while he isn't.

They need to put him on those trackers that they make the players wear in preseason.

I swear his work rate is a completely different to how people think he plays. He’s fecking passive and one of the poorest in terms of work rate and yet you’ve his teammates and coaches saying he’s one of the hardest worker on the pitch.

Compared to the lazy fecks in our team maybe. He’s constantly strolling when we lose possession and trying to hide from the ball when we have it.

If he’s not from the academy, he’ll not even have gotten 5 starts for us.

 

[Champ]

Average passes per 90 minutes 22-23
Bruno Fernandes 46
Eriksen 47
McTominay 29

Xhaka 50
Fabinho 59
Rodri 92

Tell me how a CDM/CM, the single ONE position of all 11 positions where a player is supposed to receive passes the most, with an average of 29 passes per game not being an issue?

He just keep refusing to move out from the cover shadow all the time and fails to make himself a passing option for teammates. It kills fluidity. He is the best actor of all time, who successfully deceives coaches and fans into thinking that he is a "hard worker" while he isn't.

So why do you think manager after manager keeps on picking him for the starting 11?

Baring in mind that every player is scrutinised to the nth degree in terms of statistics, heat maps, running charts, sprint amounts, pressing stats etc etc.

If he truly is as lazy as you are suggesting, are you essentially saying that manager after manager are deliberately sabotaging their jobs to put McT on a pedestal?

McT is highest for tackles, one of the highest for pressing, leads the way in midfielders for interceptions suggesting he knows where to be on the pitch, he also is very high in terms of Aerial duels in the team.

I suspect Casemiro will get a look in after the Derby debacle but keen to hear you thoughts on why managers keep picking him.

 

[MadDogg]

So why do you think manager after manager keeps on picking him for the starting 11?

Baring in mind that every player is scrutinised to the nth degree in terms of statistics, heat maps, running charts, sprint amounts, pressing stats etc etc.

If he truly is as lazy as you are suggesting, are you essentially saying that manager after manager are deliberately sabotaging their jobs to put McT on a pedestal?

McT is highest for tackles, one of the highest for pressing, leads the way in midfielders for interceptions suggesting he knows where to be on the pitch, he also is very high in terms of Aerial duels in the team.

I suspect Casemiro will get a look in after the Derby debacle but keen to hear you thoughts on why managers keep picking him.

It was really only Ole who truly chose to keep picking him. He didn't actually play under Mourinho that often (from memory he only started about 10 league games with a couple of those in the defence when Jose was trying to make a point after not being bought yet another defender), and Rangnick didn't really have any other options. This season he's played decently well so ETH has kept him in the first team for now (helped by Casemiro not getting going yet), but it's very early days. If it's still the same after a few months then that'll be a different story. Personally I doubt it but I'd love for him to prove me wrong by actually playing consistently well.

I'm not sure about the stats this season, but Scott is normally well below average with his pressing and pretty much average with tackles. Being slightly better than Pogba and Matic at those things isn't exactly high praise. That on top of his inability to make himself available to receive the ball and his below average ability when he gets on the ball. He does tend to be good at interceptions as you said though, as well as obviously winning aerial balls. Those things, along with his shooting and sometimes being able to turn and dribble out of pressure, are the things that he has tended to be fairly good at.

I've had no problem with him being first choice considering the options that we had. We as a team tended to be better with Fred and Scott than with Pogba and/or Matic, so in individual games I've generally felt it was the right decision. The huge issue is that Ole never used the transfer windows to actually improve the options we had in that area, which resulted in Scott continuing to be our best option. Something that ETH obviously highlighted straight away with his focus on signing at least two midfielders. Credit to Scott he's played quite well so far (although some people are definitely exaggerating it), but he did the same under Rangnick and then fell away badly after a month or so. He needs to not only maintain the level that he has shown so far this season, but improve further.

 

[Champ]

It was really only Ole who truly chose to keep picking him. He didn't actually play under Mourinho that often (from memory he only started about 10 league games with a couple of those in the defence when Jose was trying to make a point after not being bought yet another defender), and Rangnick didn't really have any other options. This season he's played decently well so ETH has kept him in the first team for now (helped by Casemiro not getting going yet), but it's very early days. If it's still the same after a few months then that'll be a different story. Personally I doubt it but I'd love for him to prove me wrong by actually playing consistently well.

I'm not sure about the stats this season, but Scott is normally well below average with his pressing and pretty much average with tackles. Being slightly better than Pogba and Matic at those things isn't exactly high praise. That on top of his inability to make himself available to receive the ball and his below average ability when he gets on the ball. He does tend to be good at interceptions as you said though, as well as obviously winning aerial balls. Those things, along with his shooting and sometimes being able to turn and dribble out of pressure, are the things that he has tended to be fairly good at.

I've had no problem with him being first choice considering the options that we had. We as a team tended to be better with Fred and Scott than with Pogba and/or Matic, so in individual games I've generally felt it was the right decision. The huge issue is that Ole never used the transfer windows to actually improve the options we had in that area, which resulted in Scott continuing to be our best option. Something that ETH obviously highlighted straight away with his focus on signing at least two midfielders. Credit to Scott he's played quite well so far (although some people are definitely exaggerating it), but he did the same under Rangnick and then fell away badly after a month or so. He needs to not only maintain the level that he has shown so far this season, but improve further.

Fair points all round.

Jose however made a big deal about McT, to the point of creating an award to give him, so I think he held him in quite high esteem also.

Ragnick as you say didn't really have any alternatives.

Ten Hag seems to like McT as well all things considered, he offers something distinctly lacking from our other options and that bite, he is a very gritty player willing to put a boot in. We don't have another option like that really.

Don't get me wrong, there's upgrades on McT that we could get, however as long as he carries on with his performances this season I feel he is an excellent squad player to have.

 

[RopersReturn]

McTominay’s the archetypal Utd style of player, hard working, aggressive, pacey with the occasional touch of flair for finding the net.
Ideally, he looks better suited to a more direct style of play, maybe a traditional 4-4-2 formation?
He was exposed and overwhelmed by a world class attacking side on Sunday and we can’t just rely on Erikson to provide precision passes up field, for a full 90minutes. ETH needs to look at combining the midfield so these two aren’t left on their own in the middle so often.

 

[romufc]

Love how many people are like Oh yeah McTominay is crap now because we lost to City but no word about Eriksen who was just as bad if not worse.

 

[Chief123]

I’ve never been keen on Mctominay as I think he is limited in ability for what we need. However I do think he has played well enough in recent games to warrant starting.

The problem for me is I haven’t been enthused or convinced about the cameo appearances Casemiro has made so far. He’s not done anything that makes me think he should definitely be starting ahead of an in form Mctominay. He has looked off the pace which has been clear to see.

Casemiro obviously has significantly more ability than Mctominay but I don’t know if it’s fitness, he hasn’t looked sharp in his appearances so far. I’d need to see more convincing performances to be comfortable having him starting.