Sekiro: Shadows dies twice

RedSky

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It is very much packed with false difficulty like I say. Dragonrot mechanic is incredibly stupid you are correct, it's very much like the health shit in DS2. If it was down to the ressurections it would make much more sense, a think a number of the reviewers thought it was just that. But it's not, it's whenever you die, which is trash.

In fact @RedSky was wrong, it's not a reskin of DS3, it's more a direct reskin of DS2.
Aye, I think that's more accurate. One thing I really DO HATE WITH A PASSION is how the music resets for everything encounter, so if you get a string of 3/4 enemies in a row but enough time before encountering the next for the music to stop it just repeats itself. It is incredibly annoying. The sound design is fecking terrible.
 

izzydiggler

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It is very much packed with false difficulty like I say. Dragonrot mechanic is incredibly stupid you are correct, it's very much like the health shit in DS2. If it was down to the ressurections it would make much more sense, a think a number of the reviewers thought it was just that. But it's not, it's whenever you die, which is trash.

In fact @RedSky was wrong, it's not a reskin of DS3, it's more a direct reskin of DS2.
It's a real shame because I love the Souls series, even with their faults, but the whole locking out content of you die too many times is just making me want to not even bother with it.

It could just be cause I'm bad at the game but I was fighting an Ogre that killed me in one hit with an attack that hit me, even though I had back stepped 3 times in the move wind up time...again, if the advice is 'git gud', I can handle that but after dying 4 times it's "dragon rot". I'll blunt force trauma through it out of stubbornness but so far, it's easily From's worst and most unfair game that I've played.
 

Redlambs

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The enemy attacks are pretty buggy, it's the hitbox issues all over again (From software are absolutely trash at actual development). Also as I said to ode, they have duplicate attacks that are either lazy, or the game doesn't register them as the special attacks properly.

In balance though, I will say something positive. When the posture system works, it's pretty nice to out skill the enemy. Both the madame Butterfly and Gyobu fights it works in two different ways. With MB, she attacks so fast you can block if you are good enough and deathblow her on about 1/3 - 1/2 health. With Gyobu, the neat trick of grappling hook and the fact he goes easy on the posture regain, means you can do similar. It's just a shame thanks to dragonrot, wonky collision detection and the broken lock-on, that the fights are still a bit too annoying to truly study like you can in any of the other games.
 

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Seeing you guys talk about the game you'd think it's not very good at all. Yet it's getting 90% reviews across the board. Is this a case of the game getting an unfair advantage based on From's and Miyazaki's reputation?
 

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Seeing you guys talk about the game you'd think it's not very good at all. Yet it's getting 90% reviews across the board. Is this a case of the game getting an unfair advantage based on From's and Miyazaki's reputation?
I think it's awesome, just very fecking hard. Might be a bit of salt...?
 

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I'm getting quite frustrated with this. Might be the first game from From that I don't complete. Camera is a mess and there's a lot of sections with multiple enemies that make it even worse.
 

Redlambs

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Seeing you guys talk about the game you'd think it's not very good at all. Yet it's getting 90% reviews across the board. Is this a case of the game getting an unfair advantage based on From's and Miyazaki's reputation?
It's not that it's not a great game, I'm really enjoying it. But it does have lots of flaws, mostly because it's the exact same engine and bugs as you can find in DS1 even. The reviews seem to leave that out funnily enough though.

Flawed, but still great is exactly how I'd describe it right now actually. I'm still having fun.


I think it's awesome, just very fecking hard. Might be a bit of salt...?
This isn't that much of a hard game, it's actually easier than all the others, it's the false difficulty due to bugs and design that you think is actually tough. Those are part of the criticisms.

If you are struggling, get the raven's mist attachment. It's OP.


I'm getting quite frustrated with this. Might be the first game from From that I don't complete. Camera is a mess and there's a lot of sections with multiple enemies that make it even worse.
Camera and lock on are fecked, perhaps even more so than in the others. Lock on particularly really needs a patch, but it won't get it.
 

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This isn't that much of a hard game, it's actually easier than all the others, it's the false difficulty due to bugs and design that you think is actually tough. Those are part of the criticisms.

If you are struggling, get the raven's mist attachment. It's OP.
I dunno about that. False difficulty or not, I've beaten all past Fromsoft games without that much difficulty (Except Demon's souls since it was new back then) and I'm having a very difficult time with this. Doesn't really feel like it's because of bugs or the camera being shite, mostly because of me eating swords in the face and dying.

Though to be honest, I don't look at a game that critically when playing.
 

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It is very much packed with false difficulty like I say. Dragonrot mechanic is incredibly stupid you are correct, it's very much like the health shit in DS2. If it was down to the ressurections it would make much more sense, a think a number of the reviewers thought it was just that. But it's not, it's whenever you die, which is trash.

In fact @RedSky was wrong, it's not a reskin of DS3, it's more a direct reskin of DS2.
Well you managed to put me off the game entirely with half a sentence. Well done!

(I'll wait for a sale)
 

Redlambs

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I dunno about that. False difficulty or not, I've beaten all past Fromsoft games without that much difficulty (Except Demon's souls since it was new back then) and I'm having a very difficult time with this. Doesn't really feel like it's because of bugs or the camera being shite, mostly because of me eating swords in the face and dying.

Though to be honest, I don't look at a game that critically when playing.
If you have beaten all the others "without much difficulty" then you should notice the problems with this. It's not salt though, that's a very simplistic argument. I'm pretty sure I can handle my own on these games, and this one isn't particularly difficult, just a bit cheap is all. Besides, I've not once complained about it being hard, I'm saying it's flawed, which it clearly is.

But then again, if you are having fun, who cares right? Keep on keeping on dude.


Well you managed to put me off the game entirely with half a sentence. Well done!

(I'll wait for a sale)
I'm just being honest. It is a great game though, proper From software stuff, but I struggle to recommend it at full price. It clearly is another DS2, but then I think that game is still great and better than near anything in the same genre bar maybe Nioh.

I think if you get it on sale and forget everything I've said, you'll really enjoy it.
 

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I'm just being honest. It is a great game though, proper From software stuff, but I struggle to recommend it at full price. It clearly is another DS2, but then I think that game is still great and better than near anything in the same genre bar maybe Nioh.

I think if you get it on sale and forget everything I've said, you'll really enjoy it.
I saw Nioh comparisons, too, and that's another thing that put me off a bit. I couldn't get into Nioh at all: the aesthetics, the combat, the enemies all felt uninteresting.

Maybe I'm just not interested in Japanese settings, unless it's Shadow Warrior 2.
 

Redlambs

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I saw Nioh comparisons, too, and that's another thing that put me off a bit. I couldn't get into Nioh at all: the aesthetics, the combat, the enemies all felt uninteresting.

Maybe I'm just not interested in Japanese settings, unless it's Shadow Warrior 2.
Yeah the setting is the same, but it really is more DS than Nioh. The combat can be real fun if you get into it with some of the mini/main bosses, and mastering it is slightly different to the soulsborne games (though not by much at all really).

It does have the problem that once you've beat every mob in the level and explored a bit, you really can't be arsed to face them again as there's no real challenge there and the enemy placement is a key reason for that. DS2 style.
 

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If you have beaten all the others "without much difficulty" then you should notice the problems with this. It's not salt though, that's a very simplistic argument. I'm pretty sure I can handle my own on these games, and this one isn't particularly difficult, just a bit cheap is all. Besides, I've not once complained about it being hard, I'm saying it's flawed, which it clearly is.

But then again, if you are having fun, who cares right? Keep on keeping on dude.
Ah no, don't misunderstand, I"m not accusing you of being salty, I was just speaking in general terms and that I didn't really notice the bugs. But as I said, that might also be me not really paying that close attention.
 

Redlambs

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Ah no, don't misunderstand, I"m not accusing you of being salty, I was just speaking in general terms and that I didn't really notice the bugs. But as I said, that might also be me not really paying that close attention.
NP dude.

To be fair, I've said plenty about the bad side of the game. The good side is mostly lead by the fact it's still head and shoulders above everything else not From Software in this genre, expect maybe Nioh, and the sense of getting to a new area to explore is very much still there. Also I really do like what they've tried to do with the combat, and it works to a degree, I just think it should have gone deeper. Stats would have helped with that, tuning your shinobi to suit your style, rather than the lame perks/attachment system that just does what every other game does and makes you OP as you go along. But if you don't cheese everything, the sense of finally getting the tactics right is still fun and feels fresh enough to warrant trying to master.
 

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NP dude.

To be fair, I've said plenty about the bad side of the game. The good side is mostly lead by the fact it's still head and shoulders above everything else not From Software in this genre, expect maybe Nioh, and the sense of getting to a new area to explore is very much still there. Also I really do like what they've tried to do with the combat, and it works to a degree, I just think it should have gone deeper. Stats would have helped with that, tuning your shinobi to suit your style, rather than the lame perks/attachment system that just does what every other game does and makes you OP as you go along. But if you don't cheese everything, the sense of finally getting the tactics right is still fun and feels fresh enough to warrant trying to master.
I agree in the lack of stats. I kinda miss being able to chose a build.

Also, so far I think I prefer Nioh. The combat in that was just so awesome.
 

Redlambs

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Ugh, I'm about to try the fps mod, I just can't stand the sluggishness of the buttons/camera any more. It's so frustrating, if I had this on console I think I'd Frisbee the fecking disc straight back to Japan.

We desperately need a dsFIX overhaul of the game, it's so bad there's actually the same bugs DS1 had.
 

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I do have to say that seeing npc's casually stroll over the dead bodies of their comrades without reacting is a bit 90s.
 

Redlambs

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I do have to say that seeing npc's casually stroll over the dead bodies of their comrades without reacting is a bit 90s.
So is the can climb wall, can't climb identical one. Can grapple one statue, can't grapple identical one right next to it.

Also the blurry face texture on wolf really reminds me of the original JC Denton :lol:
 

Ainu

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So is the can climb wall, can't climb identical one. Can grapple one statue, can't grapple identical one right next to it.
I would say even most modern games are guilty of this, if not all of them. Well, except Breath of the Wild.
 

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Despite these silly things, I cant stop playing though. I started over to try and die less and im now back at the drunk guy. The shinobi hunter killed me once when I fecked up a counter, but other than that no deaths yet. Trying not to die is hard.
 

Redlambs

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Despite these silly things, I cant stop playing though. I started over to try and die less and im now back at the drunk guy. The shinobi hunter killed me once when I fecked up a counter, but other than that no deaths yet. Trying not to die is hard.
:lol: That's the sort of thing I do. Did you take on the purple Ninja, or the two mini-shinobi hunters by the side?

I'm currently exploring the rooftops of Ashina Castle, very DS2 like with the enemy placement, but pretty fun. I'm one of those who has to explore every nook and cranny before moving on and finding maybe not-so-meant paths. I found my way up to the top and ended up triggering a boss fight I was woefully unprepared for :lol:
 

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:lol: That's the sort of thing I do. Did you take on the purple Ninja, or the two mini-shinobi hunters by the side?

I'm currently exploring the rooftops of Ashina Castle, very DS2 like with the enemy placement, but pretty fun. I'm one of those who has to explore every nook and cranny before moving on and finding maybe not-so-meant paths. I found my way up to the top and ended up triggering a boss fight I was woefully unprepared for :lol:
Not sure, but I think I murdered everything up to the drunkard. For the life of me I cant find the flame vent anymore though. I refuse to look it up, since I found it the first time. Cursed memory.
 

Redlambs

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Not sure, but I think I murdered everything up to the drunkard. For the life of me I cant find the flame vent anymore though. I refuse to look it up, since I found it the first time. Cursed memory.
It is an easy miss tbf, I just had to sit and think of where it is. And the purple Ninja is like the black knights of DS, he's hidden away you might not even have found him yet. You get an OP prosthetic from the fight (if you use it properly).

I've just found a poison sword prosthetic which so far is a bit useless as everyone dodges, and found where to buy the hat in the video straight after, but spent all my money on those scroll things only to find that I already bloody found the treasures, they don't actually unlock anything just give hints :(
 

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It is an easy miss tbf, I just had to sit and think of where it is. And the purple Ninja is like the black knights of DS, he's hidden away you might not even have found him yet. You get an OP prosthetic from the fight (if you use it properly).

I've just found a poison sword prosthetic which so far is a bit useless as everyone dodges, and found where to buy the hat in the video straight after, but spent all my money on those scroll things only to find that I already bloody found the treasures, they don't actually unlock anything just give hints :(
Hmmm, is he at the burning estate? I got the axe and found the vent again finally, no other prostethics.
 

Redlambs

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Hmmm, is he at the burning estate? I got the axe and found the vent again finally, no other prostethics.
The big bridge leading up to your "father" where he dies, it's to the right of that. From the nearest idol spawn, go up towards it, grapple to the left then fall in that body of water. You'll know it by the cave entrance being covered with bamboo and you have to wall jump up. Be prepared though, he's a tough fecker. Remember to be confident in pushing the fight and blocking, firecrackers help too if you have them (should by now).

I've just got the shield hat, not used it in battle yet. I'm about to fight the spear mini-boss (again) in the tutorial level bit, there's a purple Ninja there too. Somehow I already have 7 healing pots (via the seeds), I'm not sure why people seem to think they are hard to find? I just seem to keep stumbling on them. I'm not spending skill points either now, it feels too much like pointlessness and the prosthetics are very situational and largely pointless bar the shuriken too.
 

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The big bridge leading up to your "father" where he dies, it's to the right of that. From the nearest idol spawn, go up towards it, grapple to the left then fall in that body of water. You'll know it by the cave entrance being covered with bamboo and you have to wall jump up. Be prepared though, he's a tough fecker. Remember to be confident in pushing the fight and blocking, firecrackers help too if you have them (should by now).

I've just got the shield hat, not used it in battle yet. I'm about to fight the spear mini-boss (again) in the tutorial level bit, there's a purple Ninja there too. Somehow I already have 7 healing pots (via the seeds), I'm not sure why people seem to think they are hard to find? I just seem to keep stumbling on them. I'm not spending skill points either now, it feels too much like pointlessness and the prosthetics are very situational and largely pointless bar the shuriken too.
He is tough. So tough, I lured him around the back opened the door, got the item and got the feck out of there:nervous:
 

Redlambs

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He is tough. So tough, I lured him around the back opened the door, got the item and got the feck out of there:nervous:
IIRC you have to be aggresive. The firecrackers help too, but just like all the mini-bosses your size, just wail away and deflect (yeah right, parry) when he attacks back.

He's actually a fair and square fight, too many of the bosses have hitbox issues and 1-shot to fake the difficulty. You can master him and it'll help your timing for the next few.

Btw the mist thing you get is decent, but just like all the prosthetics, not really worth training with too much. It's op in that you can get out of any move with it and get behind anyone, but not as fun as mastering a fight.
 

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Enjoying combat in this much more than any Souls game, and I am big Souls fan. Difficulty is fine and fair, you just have to throw away Souls mentality where you just can dodge everything.

Brilliant game!
 

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I pussed out and beat the ogre first (he's piss easy by the way) so I could collect the 4th beat. Killed the purple guy after increasing my vitality.
 

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Is it harder/easier than Dark Souls? Fromsoftware are incredible but I may need a break after I finish Bloodborne.

It's not that it's not a great game, I'm really enjoying it. But it does have lots of flaws, mostly because it's the exact same engine and bugs as you can find in DS1 even. The reviews seem to leave that out funnily enough though.

Flawed, but still great is exactly how I'd describe it right now actually. I'm still having fun..
I imagine you're correct that it is flawed but then again pretty much every game tends to be. Even the classics we find adore have issues that we overlooked because of how excellent they were in other areas.
 

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Is it harder/easier than Dark Souls? Fromsoftware are incredible but I may need a break after I finish Bloodborne.


I imagine you're correct that it is flawed but then again pretty much every game tends to be. Even the classics we find adore have issues that we overlooked because of how excellent they were in other areas.
Indeed that's true. But that doesn't mean it should be overlooked when a lot of those flaws are from an 8 year old engine and are unlikey to be fixed, or shares a few issues with the game everyone calls the weakest of the series.

From software get a break because they are great at what they do, but they also don't tend to fix anything.

Still, it's better than most. As for difficulty, it's a hard one to call really. I wouldn't say it's harder than anything else, it is slightly different and you need to approach it diferently to the soulsborne games. The combat system is fun and can be challenging, but a lot of the extra difficulty more comes from the things I've already spoken about (enemy placement, aimbot, one shot moves, bugs), so whilst never feeling completely unfair it can get a little frustrating dying to something maybe not your fault then wading back through a bunch of mobs you can't be arsed to face again to get back to where you were.
 

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Indeed that's true. But that doesn't mean it should be overlooked when a lot of those flaws are from an 8 year old engine and are unlikey to be fixed, or shares a few issues with the game everyone calls the weakest of the series.

From software get a break because they are great at what they do, but they also don't tend to fix anything.

Still, it's better than most. As for difficulty, it's a hard one to call really. I wouldn't say it's harder than anything else, it is slightly different and you need to approach it diferently to the soulsborne games. The combat system is fun and can be challenging, but a lot of the extra difficulty more comes from the things I've already spoken about (enemy placement, aimbot, one shot moves, bugs), so whilst never feeling completely unfair it can get a little frustrating dying to something maybe not your fault then wading back through a bunch of mobs you can't be arsed to face again to get back to where you were.
I honestly think this one is the hardest so far. I agree that it's also in part of some weird design choices / flaws, but I'm having serious trouble progressing. I gave up on Lady Butterfly and went the way of the horse guy, whom I finally beat after smashing my face against him for an hour or two.

A key difference is not being able to just grind some levels to power your character up or summoning help for difficult bosses.
 

Redlambs

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I honestly think this one is the hardest so far. I agree that it's also in part of some weird design choices / flaws, but I'm having serious trouble progressing. I gave up on Lady Butterfly and went the way of the horse guy, whom I finally beat after smashing my face against him for an hour or two.

A key difference is not being able to just grind some levels to power your character up or summoning help for difficult bosses.
Which makes the one-hit stuff so cheap. In the souls games, you could adjust your character to suit, in this you just have to avoid even though it aimbots much more than any before.

Lady butterfly is a cool fight though, the key is to stay close and whittle her health down to around half and then work on the posture. Shurikens in the air are good too. She is a shining example of how the fight system, whilst good, is flawed though. Like a lot of the bosses, there's simply no point in deflecting to break posture early on, you might as well resort to dodge/hp just like in all the games. A large part of that is the weird choice to give them incredibly similar attacks to the ones you can mikiri/jump over, which means whilst you can master those timings, it'a not really worth mastering the boss fight itself. You can see why a lot of people just cheese these fights after a bit.

The horse guy is surprisingly easy if you do the age old souls trick of sticking close and to the rear. The grapple works well in the fight too, so does the firecrackers. I actually like the way you can use the grapple in some fights, it's not really anything too worth while, but it's a cool little addition.

Oh and the next section, rooftops, is pretty cool. Really suffers from the DS2 dirty trick mob placement though :lol:
 

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Yeah I've given up on this. The similarities with Souls/Bloodborne/Nioh fooled me well and good. Guess I've learnt one of my favourite things about the Souls games is the different gear and upgrades available that enable you to play the game in many different ways. This feels like a downgrade in contrast.
 

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The mobs and spamming arrows from halfway across a map are really tedious...it’s just really poor game design if you ask me - was going through a few reviews and I don’t think any of them mentioned any negatives, only piety. I think From’s games have become almost cultish and seemingly beyond criticism because there are loads of issues but anyone daring to mention them is accused of a lack of skill etc. My obsessive personality will make me play until I’ve done it but the whole experience is one of frustration, rather than enjoyment.

It’s so nearly an absolutely brilliant game but these niggles are ruining it for me.