Seriously, how unfit are we?

[AndyMUFC]

It's physicality and it's been a problem for ages.

It's why people say our squad looks better than it is on paper but in actuality it struggles so much, because we've assembled an entire squad that either can't run or isn't willing to run.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

I thought Amorim was going to make them more fit / run more?

 

[Red71]

Not helped by starting two of the most unphysical players in Lindelof and Eriksen, as well as debutant Amass.

ETH claimed he viewed Guardiola’s first season as a cautionary tale about needing physicality but he sure didn’t buy players that fit that, and nor did Murtough.

This is probably the main thing that makes me so mad about ETH’s tenure. He identified what we all already knew i.e. to competed in this league, you need a majority of big physical beasts that can play and dominate. He said it and then proceeded to oversee us adding weak and/or slow and/or small players to an already weak spine. It is unforgivable really.

ETH left us so far behind the other teams, Amorim has almost got an impossible job having to reconstruct things. I get so mad thinking that a player like Lindelof can represent United for so many years and he is the poster boy for weak, timid and slow players at our club.

I struggle to understand how we could have done so badly at squad construction. Budget must surely have played a part but not nearly enough that it can be the main reason. It feels more like self sabotage. As someone else said, we couldn’t have made a worse job if we’d left a scouser in charge of recruitment…

 

[Roane]

How many core players have been British or Irish for Liverpool or City in recent years?

Andy Robertson, Trent & Curtis Jones at Liverpool.

City have had Stones & Walker. Sterling previously.

Would you argue that those groups were setting the tone? I’d only say Robertson is particularly feisty.

Arsenal have spent big on Rice & White and Saka came through the academy.

All managed by foreign managers.

Meanwhile we’ve had Shaw, Maguire, Mainoo, McTominay, Rashford. I don’t think we’ve ever had less British players than other teams. If anything we typically have more in our squad.

Yeah I understand your points. I wasn't saying it's written in stone or anything and it definitely wasn't an EDL style "no forreners".

I think the EPL has always been different to other leagues. Not maybe as skillful (although there have been skillful players) but certainly more physical and played at a faster pace.

I think managers like SAF, Arsene, Jose and more recently Klopp and Pep realized this and ensured a certain type of player was always on the team.

I think likes of DeBruyne and Salah have benefitted from their time at Chelsea and understood the physicality of the league. So maybe the foreigner tag isn't appropriate.

I look at Newcastle and I see Eddie Howe using likes of Joe Linton as physical players. Which I don't currently see in say Bruno or Casemiro or Ugarte. Similarly I see physicality in Isak although he is a lanky skinny looking guy whereas a bigger, muscular guy like Rasmus looks weak.

Maybe foreign players isn't the issue but an understanding of what's needed in this league? Maybe likes of ETH didn't quite grasp it and hopefully Amorim will and sign accordingly.

I hope that makes sense. I could say so much on the topic but typing it isn't the same as speaking for me and I often ramble.

 

[sparx99]

Yeah I understand your points. I wasn't saying it's written in stone or anything and it definitely wasn't an EDL style "no forreners".

I think the EPL has always been different to other leagues. Not maybe as skillful (although there have been skillful players) but certainly more physical and played at a faster pace.

I think managers like SAF, Arsene, Jose and more recently Klopp and Pep realized this and ensured a certain type of player was always on the team.

I think likes of DeBruyne and Salah have benefitted from their time at Chelsea and understood the physicality of the league. So maybe the foreigner tag isn't appropriate.

I look at Newcastle and I see Eddie Howe using likes of Joe Linton as physical players. Which I don't currently see in say Bruno or Casemiro or Ugarte. Similarly I see physicality in Isak although he is a lanky skinny looking guy whereas a bigger, muscular guy like Rasmus looks weak.

Maybe foreign players isn't the issue but an understanding of what's needed in this league? Maybe likes of ETH didn't quite grasp it and hopefully Amorim will and sign accordingly.

I hope that makes sense. I could say so much on the topic but typing it isn't the same as speaking for me and I often ramble.

Physicality is sort of two-fold. It’s strength and pace but also attitude.

Ugarte and Bruno I do think have enough of the right attitude to cope with the PL. De Ligt has been another who has some leadership energy. At his best Lisandro Martinez as well.

But otherwise we’ve have signed so many middling athletes with ‘nice’ personalities or simply just not a winners mentality. We need a team of bastards.

We didn’t always love Mourinho’s football but he always signed big physical players. Pogba, Matic, Zlatan, Lukaku etc. Aggressiveness in Bailly. Lindelof and Dalot are something of outliers but you can see why a young Dalot was seen as having potential.

 

[RedSky]

I don't really get why we over analysis after every bad result.

We still have several players in the squad/team that the majority on the Caf deemed surplass to requirements last Summer. Several of our players on the bench are unfit and coming back from injury. We played midweek and have our season defining game on Thursday. Obviously we weren't going to be going into the Newcastle game with 100% focus and given Newcastle had 6 days of rest obviously they were going to be the fitter team. We delved into our squad depth to attempt to freshen up the team and try and change things around and several of those players are frankly not cut out for the PL these days and looked rusty.

The real test is Thursday, if we look tired and fatigued for that game then we need to be concerned.