Set pieces issue, who's to blame? the manager, coaching staff or the players?

[SAFMUTD]

I saw in the Carrick and McKenna thread some people mentioning that the set pieces problems was due to the coaching staff others repplied it was to Ole because under Mourinho the same staff was around (they were not) and we werent as bad, others said its the players lack of aerial ability. So I did some research from the last 5 seasons.

*Starting players are taken from the defenders with most minuted played on the league.

Personel:

Season	Manager	Starting Defense	Coaching staff
2016/17	Mourinho	DDG - Rojo - Bailly - Blind - Valencia	Rui Faria, Silvino Louro, Ricardo Formosinho
2017/18	Mourinho	DDG - Young - Smalling - Jones - Valencia	Rui Faria, Silvino Louro, Ricardo Formosinho
2018/19	Mourinho/Ole	DDG - Shaw - Smalling - Lindelof - Young	Silvino Louro, Ricardo Formosinho/Carrick, McKenna, Phelan, Mark Dempsey
2019/20	Ole	DDG - Shaw - Maguire - Lindelof - AWB	Carrick, McKenna, Phelan, Mark Dempsey
2020/21	Ole	DDG - Shaw - Maguire - Lindelof - AWB	Carrick, McKenna, Phelan, Martyn Pert

2016/17

Rank	Team	Scored	Against	Difference
1​	Chelsea	22	7	15
12​	Manchester United	7	7	0
20​	Southampton	7	17	-10

2017/18

Rank	Team	Scored	Against	Difference
1​	Manchester City	15	3	12
6​	Manchester United	14	10	4
20​	Brighton	5	21	-16

2018/19

Rank	Team	Scored	Against	Difference
1​	Liverpool	20	8	12
10​	Manchester United	12	12	0
20​	Fulham	5	11	-6

2019/20

Rank	Team	Scored	Against	Difference
1​	Liverpool	17	7	10
17​	Manchester United	8	11	-3
20​	Norwich	3	17	-14

2020/21

Rank	Team	Scored	Against	Difference
1​	Southampton	15	6	9
19​	Manchester United	7	14	-7
20​	Sheffield United	4	11	-7

While we werent great from 2016 to 2018 I think the pattern is clear, the decline of our production on set pieces is really concerning. We've regressed offensively and deffensively up to the point that we are ridiculously bad. Bottom table productivity.

What do you think the problem is? were the players from 2016-2017 better than todays? is it Ole and his managment? is it the coaching staff? who's to blame? and how do we solve it?

 

[Zlatattack]

I think every time we take a set piece it looks like a random punt into the box. Look at the Vilareal goal - they looked like they had practised that.

In terms of defending, I think quite often our players make mistakes. They don't impose themselves on thier man.

 

[SAFMUTD]

I think every time we take a set piece it looks like a random punt into the box. Look at the Vilareal goal - they looked like they had practised that.

In terms of defending, I think quite often our players make mistakes. They don't impose themselves on thier man.

Do you think thats to the players lack of talent/commitment or are they as individuals or group not trained well enough to defend them?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Rui left before 18/19 season. So all those numbers you posted don't provide any idea or conclusion for the debate of coaching staff vs Ole.

And also 18/19 season we have two different managers. Although looking at players perspective, there is one thing I can say about your numbers that we had Smalling and Jones who were regular in 17/18 and they both were very good defending set pieces and in the air and your number shows we only started to conceded more since we signed Lindelof who is worse than Smalling and Jones in that aspect.

We can only come into conclusion once we sign new players who are good in defending set pieces and sign new defensive coach for this area. Honestly, Ole is an attacker and he used to coach our attack in 07/08 season. It's only common sense that defending is not his speciality to coach but improving players or teams end product probably his speciality to coach which you can see in the perspective of how we have been scoring goals above our xG (expected goals). I still remember the picture of him in dubai with Lingard, Rashford, Martial sitting down and talking together in training like they were being coached in 2019, probably shows that he's more of an attacking area coach.

 

[Dante]

Losing the likes of Fellaini and Smalling was always going to make us weaker on set pieces.

The issue at United is that our back 5 only has one excellent aerial presence (Maguire) and one okay aerial presence (Shaw). Everyone else is either poor (De Gea and Lindelof) or abysmal (AWB). McTominay and Pogba do a decent job helping out, but it's obviously not enough.

If we want to get better at defending set pieces, we need to increase the number of physical headers of the ball. Hopefully Henderson and a new CB will do that.

Better coaching would help, but you can't defeat the laws of physics.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Rui left before 18/19 season. So all those numbers you posted don't provide any idea or conclusion for the debate of coaching staff vs Ole.

And also 18/19 season we have two different managers. Although looking at players perspective, there is one thing I can say about your numbers that we had Smalling and Jones who were regular in 17/18 and they both were very good defending set pieces and in the air and your number shows we only started to conceded more since we signed Lindelof who is worse than Smalling and Jones in that aspect.

We can only come into conclusion once we sign new players who are good in defending set pieces and sign new defensive coach for this area. Honestly, Ole is an attacker and he used to coach our attack in 07/08 season. It's only common sense that defending is not his speciality to coach but improving players or teams end product probably his speciality to coach which you can see in the perspective of how we have been scoring goals above our xG (expected goals). I still remember the picture of him in dubai with Lingard, Rashford, Martial sitting down and talking together in training like they were being coached in 2019, probably shows that he's more of an attacking area coach.

You are right Faria left at the end of the 2017/2018 season. I just corrected it, please explain why Faria leaving means all the other numbers dont work?

Regarding 18/19 its mentioned on the table above that we had two different managers and coaching staff.

I dont agree with you opinion that Lindelof alone is the problem about the set pieces, but its a valid opinion thats why I created the thread I want to discuss about it. Also please take into account that our productivity diminished attacking wise too with the new manager and coaches is that a Lindelof problem as well?

Regarding Ole Im a little lost because you mentioned a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with set pieces, but I think we agree its not directly his fault I think its the coaches fault. But weather its the coaches or players fault at the end I think its Ole's responsability. He has to make the changes to fix it.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Losing the likes of Fellaini and Smalling was always going to make us weaker on set pieces.

The issue that United have is our back 5 only has one excellent aerial presence (Maguire) and one okay aerial presence (Shaw). Everyone else is either poor (De Gea and Lindelof) or abysmal (AWB). McTominay and Pogba do a decent job helping out, but it's obviously not enough.

If we want to get better at defending set pieces, we need to increase the number of physical headers of the ball. Hopefully Henderson and a new CB will do that.

This is not only on defending, theres also a decreased in the goals scored. I do think that having phyisical presence helps a lot to defend and score set pieces but coaching is as important or even more important than that.Sure we lost Smalling and Fellaini but we brought Maguire who must be the most phyisical imposing player in the league along with Vestergaard. Also this is not about us being not great, I mean the last two seasons we were 17th and 19th overall, is our squad really that weak aerially? we are a top 4 club with a fairly good squad surely we can do better than that?

 

[sullydnl]

People have blamed individual players at times but the reality is that we look vulnerable on set-pieces no matter what team we put out. It's one of the most consistent things about our team.

I see no reason to believe our squad of players are not only innately the worst in the league in this regard but are in fact so bad they can't be improved beyond being the worst in the league. (I say "worst in the league" as I believe I saw a stat saying we concede a greater proportion of our goals from set-pieces than anyone else).

It's down to the coaching. And if we go through another full pre-season of preparations only to still come out looking this inept then it's a very poor reflection on management.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You are right Faria left at the end of the 2017/2018 season. I just corrected it, please explain why Faria leaving means all the other numbers dont work?

Regarding 18/19 its mentioned on the table above that we had two different managers and coaching staff.

I dont agree with you opinion that Lindelof alone is the problem about the set pieces, but its a valid opinion thats why I created the thread I want to discuss about it. Also please take into account that our productivity diminished attacking wise too with the new manager and coaches is that a Lindelof problem as well?

Regarding Ole Im a little lost because you mentioned a bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with set pieces, but I think we agree its not directly his fault I think its the coaches fault. But weather its the coaches or players fault at the end I think its Ole's responsability. He has to make the changes to fix it.

That means Faria could be the reason why the number we had in 16/17 and 17/18 look better. Thus, that makes the argument about Mourinho had the same coach as Ole to be debunked.

I'm not saying Lindelof is the problem as a clear obvious one. I'm just using your stats and the only thing you can see the differences are we had Faria and Jones and Smalling as our main CB, while the others we had Lindelof as our main CB and no Faria.

I mentioned bunch of stuff just to provide reason that may be he doesn't coach the defending area as he looks like more coaching for attackers. So this could lead to coaching staffs as problem since may be one or two of Phelan, Carrick & McKenna are the ones coaching the defense.

 

[SAFMUTD]

That means Faria could be the reason why the number we had in 16/17 and 17/18 look better. Thus, that makes the argument about Mourinho had the same coach as Ole to be debunked.

I'm not saying Lindelof is the problem as a clear obvious one. I'm just using your stats and the only thing you can see the differences are we had Faria and Jones and Smalling as our main CB, while the others we had Lindelof as our main CB and no Faria.

I never said Mourinho had the same coach as Ole, look at the table it specifies that the coaching changed with Ole. I do think a valid reason would be Faria leaving but again we werent really great when he was here, we were around average. Best clubs get 10+ goals difference from set pieces, the best we got when Faria was here was +4 I mean I would take it today since we are really poor at the moment with -7 but still I think we have to aim to be way better than +4.

From what you mention about Lindelof, Faria, Smalling and Jones its all true but whats also true is that in that lap of time Mourinho and the rest of the coaching staff left and Ole and the new coaching staff arrived. So I dont see why we would single out just one thing when these changes happened as well.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Could it be a case of you can't be good at everything. Yes we're low on the set pieces table but we've finished second in the league and now have a mentality where we can come from behind and win games. Under those other managers if we went behind we lost.

Rome wasn't built in a day. We have other areas to focus on that are more important, and Ole and his team have done brilliantly improving over overall style of play and our mentality.

Stop looking for things to be negative about.

How can someone be so negative about the team they support?

What? come on man, this forum is about discussion. We could literally say what you just mentioned to every single subject. Is McFred not good enough? well we cant be good at everything, etc.

Its a glarring weakness that needs to be improved on, this is not a case about us being average, its about us being really poor and in tight games set pieces can be the difference. Against low blocks its a golden opportunity to score and also a true danger to conceed since they wont be having much chances. We just paid for it against Villarreal.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I never said Mourinho had the same coach as Ole, look at the table it specifies that the coaching changed with Ole. I do think a valid reason would be Faria leaving but again we werent really great when he was here, we were around average. Best clubs get 10+ goals difference from set pieces, the best we got when Faria was here was +4 I mean I would take it today since we are really poor at the moment with -7 but still I think we have to aim to be way better than +4.

From what you mention about Lindelof, Faria, Smalling and Jones its all true but whats also true is that in that lap of time Mourinho and the rest of the coaching staff left and Ole and the new coaching staff arrived. So I dont see why we would single out just one thing when these changes happened as well.

You created this because you want to know whether it's Ole or the coaching staffs since people created argument/debate right?

And the argument/debate were people were mentioning that the set pieces problems was due to one, the coaching staff and two, others replied it was to Ole because under Mourinho the same staff was around (which clearly no longer the case anymore). In 16/17 and 17/18 where we see the difference we had Faria aka not the same staffs. So one of the argument about Ole and Mourinho had the same staff is debunked. That means we are no longer able to use the numbers to figure out whether people can put the blame on Ole or no since Ole doesn't have the same staff as Mourinho.

 

[SAFMUTD]

You created this because you want to know whether it's Ole or the coaching staffs since people created argument/debate right?

And the argument/debate were people were mentioning that the set pieces problems was due to one, the coaching staff and two, others replied it was to Ole because under Mourinho the same staff was around (which clearly no longer the case anymore). In 16/17 and 17/18 where we see the difference we had Faria aka not the same staffs. So one of the argument about Ole and Mourinho had the same staff is debunked. That means we are no longer able to use the numbers to figure out whether people can put the blame on Ole or no since Ole doesn't have the same staff as Mourinho.

I created to know whats the people opinion, if they think its a manager, coaching staff or player problem. Its even on the title of the thread. Also the thing about them having the same coaching staff is debunked since the OP, "(they were not)".

Again I dont know how are you comming to the conclusion that the numbers can't be used only because Faria was not on the staff on half a season. I think you are focusing the whole thing on Ole, when its about Ole, Mourinho, both coaching staffs and past and present players.

 

[bugmat]

I think we lack a good defensive coach. Chelsea had the same issue but when Tuchel and his team came in they tightened up tremendously, by not just changing personnel (so we could do with better at CB) but also how they played w/o the ball.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I created to know whats the people opinion, if they think its a manager, coaching staff or player problem. Its even on the title of the thread. Also the thing about them having the same coaching staff is debunked since the OP, "(they were not)".

Again I dont know how are you comming to the conclusion that the numbers can't be used only because Faria was not on the staff on half a season. I think you are focusing the whole thing on Ole, when its about Ole, Mourinho, both coaching staff and past and present players.

Look mate, because you asked why Faria leaving means all the other numbers dont work, my answer of that question is pretty clear that your stats is not helping to produce clear conclusion for people to make but only debunk one of the argument/debate that people created. If it helps then feel free to provide your answer/opinion by using the stats.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Look mate, because you asked why Faria leaving means all the other numbers dont work, my answer of that question is pretty clear that your stats is not helping to produce clear conclusion for people to make but only debunk one of the argument/debate that people created. If it helps then feel free to provide your answer/opinion by using the stats.

I think it debunks the opinion that the problem is only Ole because he had the same coaching team than Mourinho. But that was debunked since the OP so I dont really see the point on arguing on it again.

I think the stats are clear, they show we were never great but have been consistently bad for 2 years now. What are the factos in the last 2 years? well like someone mentioned in a post before Smalling and Fellaini went away, we changed coaching staff and manager, we brought new players. The stats are there so anybody can interpret them, form their opinion and discuss it.

Im from the idea that its a coaching problem and that we need to address it right away.

 

[DRJosh]

Interesting. Another contextual variable to consider is the number of set-piece opportunities we are getting across all the mentioned seasons. I'm assuming the sample of set-pieces would vary quite dramatically from season to season depending on style of play and tactics.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I think it debunks the opinion that the problem is only Ole because he had the same coaching team than Mourinho. But that was debunked since the OP so I dont really see the point on arguing on it again.

I think the stats are clear, they show we were never great but have been consistently bad for 2 years now. What are the factos in the last 2 years? well like someone mentioned in a post before Smalling and Fellaini went away, we changed coaching staff and manager, we brought new players. The stats are there so anybody can interpret them, form their opinion and discuss it.

Im from the idea that its a coaching problem and that we need to address it right away.

My point is that using your stats, we can't evaluate the manager's factor therefore we can't have clear conclusion if we can ignore the manager's influences which was part of your question when you created this thread.

 

[Foxbatt]

Rojo, Jones and Smalling were better in the air than Lindelof. But the biggest issue in defending is that we go full out zonal. We do not have the capability to go full zonal because we have so poor headers of the ball, especially defensively.
Attackwise it is completely different. It is entirely on the set up. The most difficult to defend against is the near post flick. Yes it is difficult to execute but at this level they should be able to get a ball around the near post area and someone to flick it back. I would say when you get newbies they are too fixated on something and have tunnel vision. That could be the problem with United. We accuse some teams of being good in only set pieces. They are good at it not because everyone is so tall. They are good at it because they practice it.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Interesting. Another contextual variable to consider is the number of set-piece opportunities we are getting across all the mentioned seasons. I'm assuming the sample of set-pieces would vary quite dramatically from season to season depending on style of play and tactics.

That would give us way more insight, but man getting that stat would be quite something.

 

[SAFMUTD]

My point is that using your stats, we can't evaluate the manager's factor therefore we can't have clear conclusion if we can ignore the manager's influences which was part of your question when you created this thread.

Well thats true, but thats just one fact. Imagine if Ole would had indeed kept the same coaching staff, he still changed players so same argument could be made? under that logic you wouldnt be able to analyze anything from Ole do to one minor change ocurring. Like saying well we cant know if its Ole because eventhough he had the same players and staff other teams changed players so he wasnt facing the same opposition so its not worth analysing. I dont get the logic about cancelling the whole analysis on the manager unless its ceteris paribus, which wont ever be.

 

[hobbers]

It is clearly a coaching issue and therefore Ole's fault.

It also goes hand in hand with the absurdly lacking pre-game preparation that we've seen all season long. The reason I suspect we started so many games so badly this season. Coaching ability and tactical nous just aren't there among the current coaching staff. That's what nepotism gets you.

Even signing a CB as good as VVD wouldn't necessarily solve it. So many teams who are solid at defending crosses and set pieces have mediocre defenders. The key is organisation, tactical focus on each opposition, and defensive drills. Faria wasn't the best at it but at least he understood its importance.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Well thats true, but thats just one fact. Imagine if Ole would had indeed kept the same coaching staff, he still changed players so same argument could be made? under that logic you wouldnt be able to analyze anything from Ole do to one minor change ocurring. Like saying well we cant know if its Ole because eventhough he had the same players and staff other teams changed players so he wasnt facing the same opposition so its not worth analysing. I dont get the logic about cancelling the whole analysis on the manager unless its ceteris paribus, which wont ever be.

That’s why I said:
We can only come into conclusion once we sign new players who are good in defending set pieces and sign new defensive coach for this area.

If after signings those, we still have the same problem then manager’s factor is taking into account.

 

[SAFMUTD]

That’s why I said:
We can only come into conclusion once we sign new players who are good in defending set pieces and sign new defensive coach for this area.

If after signings those, we still have the same problem then manager’s factor is taking into account.

Yes and no, I mean if we did sign new players good in defending set pieces and a new defensive coach and still failed all would indicate that the only variable left to change would be Ole. But still a new defensive coach doesnt necessarily mean a good one, I dont think we have to get to that point to judge Ole. Of course its judgment and by judgment I mean opinion which doesnt make it right.

Anyway Im more interested in to who do you think its the responsability on? its clear you dont believe its on Ole or at least cant be proven at this point, so who would you say it is?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Yes and no, I mean if we did sign new players good in defending set pieces and a new defensive coach and still failed all would indicate that the only variable left to change would be Ole. But still a new defensive coach doesnt necessarily mean a good one, I dont think we have to get to that point to judge Ole. Of course its judgment and by judgment I mean opinion which doesnt make it right.

Anyway Im more interested in to who do you think its the responsability on? its clear you dont believe its on Ole or at least cant be proven at this point, so who would you say it is?

It’s the manager’s job to find a new defensive coach to solve the issue so it’s down to him to find the right one when he decides to do it, thus it’s manager’s influence.

 

[SAFMUTD]

It’s the manager’s job to find a new defensive coach to solve the issue so it’s down to him to find the right one when he decides to do it, thus it’s manager’s influence.

Couldnt agree more, as I said before I think its the coaching staff who are failing, but ultimately its Ole's responsability to change/fix it. Its been two seasons with the same problem, I don't know if he believes the same coaching staff will get it right eventually or if he's not allowed to change them since theyre "not his team" I by that I mean they didnt arrived with him but were somehow "impossed" by the club or maybe he doesnt believe its a problem any way I dont expect it to be fixed until we find a better coaching staff.

 

[Stig]

Many factors I think.

Lack of a good solid second centre back.
We don't have a traditional #9 so I think that doesn't help the attacking stats.
But I think the over riding factor has to be lack of organization and practice.

People always say " Burnley are a well organized team". I suspect that through organization and practice that they have better set piece defensive and attacking stats than we do.

Please can you show that, I can't find it.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Many factors I think.

Lack of a good solid second centre back.
We don't have a traditional #9 so I think that doesn't help the attacking stats.
But I think the over riding factor has to be lack of organization and practice.

People always say " Burnley are a well organized team". I suspect that through organization and practice that they have better set piece defensive and attacking stats than we do.

Please can you show that, I can't find it.

Burnley: 8 scored, 9 received.-1 difference.

Better than us, but to be fair every team was better than us this season except for Sheffield who's got the same -7 difference but they scored less than us.

 

[elmo]

It's on the coaching and players.

Being bad in the air isn't the problem, the real problem is us being bad at marking players and just allowing them a free header most of the time. If our players could mark their players and not let them have a free fun, you'll see us cut down a lot of chances.

Just do man marking and make each player mark their guys, it's dumb watching our players getting confused over which player to mark in their zone and they end up marking nobody.

 

[Commentary]

I like what Ole has achieved but...The inexperience of the manager and coaching staff shows up time and time again in set pieces.

United lost a game this year (I can't remember to who) as a result of Ole substituting a player when the opposition had just won a corner kick....of course they scored (I was shaking my head)

and it also doesn't appear that the defense marks players in the box. So many goals went in this year as a result of Maguire not covering this guy, or Lindelof that guy ect.

 

[Leftback99]

I'm pretty sure it's more down to players and we were more threatening / better defensively when we had the likes of Smalling, Fellaini and Ibrahimovic getting regular minutes. Our team is packed with players that are weak in the air.

You also need a lot more data for a better picture:
- how many from corners, set pieces and direct free kicks (I think Southampton's 15 above includes 4 direct free kicks, ours zero)
- how many set pieces were taken for and against?
- how many shots resulted for and against, what were the expected goals (this is on understat but I can't be bothered putting it together)

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

A lot of our attackers don't even fancy set pieces. Other than Cavani, none amongst Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, Bruno even go for them. Add to this, Shaw is in charge of delivery, Fred, Wan Bissaka and Lindelöf are in general poor in the air and you are left with Cavani, Maguire, McTominay and Pogba as the only reliable ones.

 

[romufc]

It has to do with coaching. if you look at the way we set up for a corner, there is always 2 people free on the edge of the box because we zonal mark. We have 10 men in the box defending because we never leave anyone upfield.

We still don't win the first ball into the box, which is worrying. Whenever the opponent get a set piece I am really worried these days.

I hope they look at this in detail this summer, we need to improve on both accounts, attacking and defending set pieces.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It seems like we just don't really know what we are doing.

Some defenders drop early, some are too slow to react. I think our defensive line starts too high considering how slow we are to react, especially with a goalkeeper like DDG who is genuinely the most timid keeper I've ever seen. Most the time you'd want space for your keeper to come out and claim the ball into the box, but he just stands there waiting so the strikers have all the time in the world to run onto it and get a touch (look at Vilarreal goal for example)

We are often caught ball watching too, half the job of defending is impeding your attacker to stop them getting to the ball easily, we barely make any blocks or get physical. People used to complain about Smalling being 'grabby' but i'd much prefer that style of defending over the clean niceness we have now.

 

[OleBoiii]

1. We got only got 3 players who are good(ish) in the air: Maguire, McTominay and Cavani. Only Maguire is a dead-on starter and Cavani is more of an offensive header(i.e timing his run so that he doesn't need to outmuscle opponents midair). It's obviously not necessary to have a team of giants in order to survive set pieces, but it helps to have more than one or two players who can win headers fairly consistently.

2. There is a degree of randomness involved with set pieces. Based on the table above, the team that's best on set pieces will still often concede 7 or 8 goals. It doesn't take that many freaky situations over the course of a season to get a higher number than this.

My post is written from a defensive point of view, but the arguments also applies on offensive set pieces.

 

[Lash]

It is clearly a coaching issue and therefore Ole's fault.

It also goes hand in hand with the absurdly lacking pre-game preparation that we've seen all season long. The reason I suspect we started so many games so badly this season. Coaching ability and tactical nous just aren't there among the current coaching staff. That's what nepotism gets you.

Even signing a CB as good as VVD wouldn't necessarily solve it. So many teams who are solid at defending crosses and set pieces have mediocre defenders. The key is organisation, tactical focus on each opposition, and defensive drills. Faria wasn't the best at it but at least he understood its importance.

I'm not so sure it is in the same way you're saying. If we're zonal, people should be attacking the ball which none of our defenders, bar Maguire seem to do. Also a clear lack of communication/awareness about passing people on in that system. If we go man to man, seems someone inevitably goes to sleep too.

I think Ole's laissez-faire attitude about tactic messaging, by massaging their ego's (always talks about their talent), isn't explicit enough for the players we have. I don't believe for a second we don't work on defending set pieces, I play at a shitty club at step 6 and even we do it. What I do believe in, he's not someone who hammers home the messaging and importance of the work they do on it, maybe that's the coaches too, but the buck stops with the manager.

 

[bsCallout]

Well ultimately the manager because that's where the buck stops but realistically it's down to the players and coaches to resolve.

We know Ole is a manager that delegates and so far they've not been able to resolve it.

Ole will be responsible if he doesn't get in the players and coaches that turn that around.

I'd be very surprised if this is still an issue next year, hes very aware it's one of our biggest issues.

 

[RumHam]

We were quite poor from set-pieces for a while under Mourhinho, i remember us conceding a lot of chances this way but perhaps we got a bit luckier than we have this season (or DDG made more saves!). We had improved this last season with Maguire coming in and he even spoke about working on this in training but there has been a big drop off this season.

As has been said, you can identify quite a few obvious and logical reasons for our poor performance: DDG is a big weakness (Henderson is better but some way off a keeper that can dominate aerially like Alisson), lack of time on the training pitch due to the compressed schedule, coaching / approach probably isn't suited to our players especially offensively, and most important a lack of strong aerial presence. Upgrading Lindelof will make a huge difference to us, Bailly and Tuanzabe are equally weak in the air so we need to go into the market, it is glaringly obvious.

 

[A-man]

I went through all setpiece goals some time ago and imo there were two main issues.
1. Big guy in opponent team get a free run through our penalty box and then can out jump and outmuscle or guys on the line (often Maguire or Lindelof).
2. When an opponent moves from one “zone”
to another we don’t have a clue.

Could also add we look very disorganised what to do in the phase after a setpiece. We clear it then we look like stoned chicken with Dijon mustard in the arse.

There is no doubt that our tactics and organisation around setpieces don’t work.

Interesting. Another contextual variable to consider is the number of set-piece opportunities we are getting across all the mentioned seasons. I'm assuming the sample of set-pieces would vary quite dramatically from season to season depending on style of play and tactics.

I think the number of setpieces is one important factor. Another is how the opposing teams see this as opportunities. They have seen it is a weakness, they have also seen that it is very difficult to score open play goals on our team (both this and last season) and in their tactics, they go for it on setpieces.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

We never seem to have anyone on the posts for corners. We always used to have a man on each post (years ago), and we used to man mark which we don't do now. Why these changes were made is beyond me, but cleary they aren't working.