Sexual abuse of young players | Bennell gets 31 years (expected to serve 15) | Dead

[ZAGREB RED]

Sickening, disgusting - these words don't even come close. People that do these things deserve everything they get and more. No sympathy for people who do these types of things and get "targeted" in prison. Sick animals.
That Crewe coach should be put in a darkened room and left there to rot. Even that's too good for him. The victims of these things have to live with it for the rest of their lives. All credit to the guys who came forward and spoke out about the abuse, more power to them and hopefully they will get the support and help they deserve and their actions will mean this sort of thing gets stamped out.
Can't begin to imagine what it must have been like to have been abused in this way, it is just sickening. Best wishes to all those involved and have suffered at the hands of these vile rapists.

 

[Speak]

Sorry a bit far, I meant 'cautious'

Obviously parents should be cautious of anyone around their kids. That goes without saying. In fact, probably more kids are sexually abused by their own relatives and parents' partners than by people outside of the home.

The percentage of men working with children who do these things is a tiny tiny percentage, so it's a shame that this small number of ill individuals lead people to feel that all men working with children have to be looked at with immediate suspicion.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

According to Sky the Met. Police are now investigating allegations of non-recent sexual abuse against London clubs.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Obviously parents should be cautious of anyone around their kids. That goes without saying. In fact, probably more kids are sexually abused by their own relatives and parents' partners than by people outside of the home.

The percentage of men working with children who do these things is a tiny tiny percentage, so it's a shame that this small number of ill individuals lead people to feel that men working with children have to be looked at with immediate suspicion.

You have to think about the fact that anyone working with children has to go through police checks now. Most of these cases are from a time when anyone could work with children and coaching boys and girls in sport was the perfect scenario for these monsters. Hopefully these checks prevent this happening, but our course it only works if they have been caught before.

 

[Stobzilla]

This is going to be huge, bigger than Saville.

We as a people are already asking too much in asking those who have suffered abuse to have to carry that with them for the rest of their lives, but now we must also ask those same people to now step forward and relive those events so that future generations may be protected.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The details on Barry Bennell are shocking. The way he made his house into an Aladdin's cave for kids. Everything he did was focused on abusing children.

 

[kps88]

This is just one sport in one country; the potential scale could be so much worse. I think we've reached that point now where any industry/environment with kids needs to have safeguards and mechanisms in place to deal with something like this.

 

[Alex99]

You have to think about the fact that anyone working with children has to go through police checks now. Most of these cases are from a time when anyone could work with children and coaching boys and girls in sport was the perfect scenario for these monsters. Hopefully these checks prevent this happening, but our course it only works if they have been caught before.

They only work if you've been caught before, and a lot of places are still very lax about the checks anyway. You're fine to work with kids without them as long you're accompanied at all times by someone who has had the relevant checks, but I've been at numerous schools and junior football teams where people have been left alone with kids when they shouldn't have been. Now obviously the chances are that these people aren't nonces, but it still seems very easy for people to get themselves in positions close to kids.

I'm not sure if it's a legal requirement or just an extra level of safeguarding my current club have, but we aren't even allowed to give kids a lift to and from training or matches. The only exceptions are the coaches who have a child in the team and are driving them at the same time, but most of the time their car is too full to make that a possibility. I've had a situation before now where a parent forgot they were supposed to pick his kid up from training and not his wife, so me and another coach had to contact him and wait with the kid until he arrived, despite him living about 2 minutes from me.

 

[Arruda]

People just looked the other way too much.

I remember there was a janitor at my school (nonetheless the gym janitor, who monitored us boys in the locker rooms and showers) who was rumoured by every kid to be an abuser. Now this was a 5th and 6th grade school, so mostly 10 to 12 year old kids. Some 15 years later that guy was trialled and condemned for abuse of students. It seems he mostly picked on the isolated, weird, or even kids with some kind of disability. He was a weirdo himself, incapable of creating any kind of empathy, a middle-aged fat and lonely drunk. We all mocked him. Well, all but the victims, I guess.

What I question is, with all the grown ups around, how is it possible that us kids knew and they didn't at least suspect? And if they suspected shouldn't we at least expect they removed from direct contact with kids, let alone in the locker rooms? I remember so vividly that he did indeed watched us shower (in communal showers) nearly every time. Just stood there with a vigilant attitude. At the time I figured that was normal and part of his duties. I never personally met or knew of someone directly abused by him, and myself were still pretty innocent sexually speaking, so it never bothered me at the time. But I DID knew, or suspected he was abuser. The grown ups (his colleagues, the teachers, etc) didn't?

Between my school years and his imprisonment (a short sentence, I still see him around plenty of times) a lot changed in society, even around here. We had our own Jimmy Saville case (but here we actually trialled them and imprisoned them) involving important people. That guy worked with kids for 30 years completely unobstructed. He was only moved from his workplace to somewhere else when he became an official suspect.

 

[nore1975]

Huge credit to Andy Woodward for speaking out as he has done. I guess its makes sense that such a story should break eventually. Pedophiles pick lines of work that allow access to children ie teacher/coach/priest etc. What Barry Bennell did to Woodward and others was revolting reprehensible and sick. Like alcoholics pedophiles construct opportunities to indulge their passion. The physical and emotional damage done to Woodward and others is something those of us fortunate not to have been abused can in all probability never truly understand. I hope Bennell is brought to book for what he has done though I realise he has served jail time. This evil man was married to Woodward's sister for a time. Apparently he has a long time girlfriend. What must those women think knowing what we know. I hope Andy Woodward and all the other victims of Bennell get the help they need to cope with the aftermath of what he did to them. Hats off Andy.

 

[Adisa]

Please tell me this Bennell guy is still alive.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

This is just one sport in one country; the potential scale could be so much worse. I think we've reached that point now where any industry/environment with kids needs to have safeguards and mechanisms in place to deal with something like this.

There was a basketball coach in America IIRC who abused young players on a massive scale and Sugar Ray Leonard revealed that he was sexually abused by a youth boxing coach. Unfortunately it goes on everywhere that nefarious adults can get access to children. Being a coach, like being a Priest is one of those roles that affords paedophiles the opportunity to abuse.

 

[Chorley1974]

That is atrocious.

 

[Jazz]

Please tell me this Bennell guy is still alive.

He is alive and currently free.. the judges/law in this country
People like Bennell should never be let out of prison. You cannot rehabilitate people like that. They are pure evil

 

[AndyJ1985]

Seems as though sexual abuse of young people was rife throughout society in the 70s and 80s. It's pretty sickening.

 

[Rado_N]

I've always considered Red Issue to be a contemptible shower of cnuts but feck me that tweet is dreadful.

 

[horsechoker]

Seems as though sexual abuse of young people was rife throughout society in the 70s and 80s. It's pretty sickening.

If you uncovered all the people who had been abused in someway, it would be shocking, you really don't know how bad it is until you find out how bad it is. What could be more sickening is if a club or any other institution helped to cover it up.

 

[Kinsella]

I've always considered Red Issue to be a contemptible shower of cnuts but feck me that tweet is dreadful.

Indeed. They should be boycotted for that.

 

[Jazz]

This article mentions that even the FA were given a heads up on the situation, but of course they did feck all
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/25/crewe-barry-bennell-former-board-member

 

[skidmark]

Seems as though sexual abuse of young people was rife throughout society in the 70s and 80s. It's pretty sickening.

I suspect it's just as rife today, if not more so because of the enabling factor of the internet.

 

[Chorley1974]

I suspect it's just as rife today, if not more so because of the enabling factor of the internet.

I have to hope that there are more checks and measures in place these days, it can't be the same free for all as back in the day.

 

[top1whoisman]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[skidmark]

I have to hope that there are more checks and measures in place these days, it can't be the same free for all as back in the day.

I hope for exactly the same, but I see very little evidence of that coming out in the press; the clubs involved are either purposely keeping shtum or burying their heads in the sand - same story with the FA. If it was truly different and effectively safeguarded today you'd imagine the industry would be falling over itself to explain how their policies and safeguards were different now hence why this could not happen today. Maybe I missed those articles.

 

[Chorley1974]

I hope for exactly the same, but I see very little evidence of that coming out in the press; the clubs involved are either purposely keeping shtum or burying their heads in the sand - same story with the FA. If it was truly different and effectively safeguarded today you'd imagine the industry would be falling over itself to explain how their policies and safeguards were different now hence why this could not happen today. Maybe I missed those articles.

I think most clubs are bricking it at the moment as they have no idea what may come out. It's potentially a BBC 2.0.

 

[skidmark]

I think most clubs are bricking it at the moment as they have no idea what may come out. It's potentially a BBC 2.0.

Totally agree. But if you thought you had nothing to worry about, you'd be open and visible about that - manage historical problems, but demonstrate what you had done since - own the problem before it blew up in your face. I don't see that, just closing ranks at the moment. Which suggests there is still potentially a problem - either one they are aware of, or that suddenly they recognise they have very little in the way of safeguarding now. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not holding my breath...same goes for the BBC pre-the Saville xpose to be honest. It's all pretty shit.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

I've always considered Red Issue to be a contemptible shower of cnuts but feck me that tweet is dreadful.

It's vile, any self respecting human using something like that for points scoring is an utter cock.

 

[Sylar]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

How would the confidentiality thing work in a case like this. Person who was silenced, now tells their story. Then what does the club do? Get their lawyers to sue the person that was abused? hmm

 

[Cheesy]

How would the confidentiality thing work in a case like this. Person who was silenced, now tells their story. Then what does the club do? Get their lawyers to sue the person that was abused? hmm

Any club which even tries to do this will see their reputation plummet beyond belief. I suspect we'd see mass abandonment attendance wise and outright disgust towards said clubs.

 

[marukomu]

Seems as though sexual abuse of young people was rife throughout society in the 70s and 80s. It's pretty sickening.

The organ player at the church in Levenshulme was rumoured to be one, and parents still let their children go to Sunday school each week. It seems like it wasn't considered such a big thing in those days.

 

[montpelier]

Our backward shit-hole isolated little hilltop Yorkshire village had a ''comedy nonce'' - in that everyone knew what he was like, or the kids found out when he sat next to you on the bus, tried to start a conversation about the showers after PE & then stuck his hand in your crotch, but no one did anything about it. He did it to me, I saw or presume I saw him do it to another kid (I didn't even go & help him, fairly shamefully - the kids used to bully me on the school bus (we were strangers there) - so some level of can't be bothered came in. I'm afraid.

But I don't think anyone would have spoke to a teacher or parent about it on an individual basis for fear of being laughed at or whatever it is.

I used to not get on the bus if he was there for a while - which was a pain or have a big bag on the double seat or you'd sit near someone else, not on your own.

I do now wonder what else he might have got up to, he was obviously doing this for a reason, he was doing it for years I presume, so you'd think it wasn't completely pointless (just a very low level cheap thrill being all he got). Really vulnerable kids (I wasn't THAT far off meself, cos of adolescent unhappiness) that he might have found - he thinks he's helping them explore their sexuality, maybe, I dunno. He done me only the once, and it wasn't 'a lot of fun' kinda thing but having that going on in a sports club, boarding school or any other institution - band, scouts & no one does anything & everybody knows that no one will do anything & you don't know how to deal with it, and then it escalates because your dad wants you to play football or whatever - maybe he's been paid up for your signing up & stuff. So obvious isn't it?

 

[Devil81]

Not sure of the relation to this case but when I was a kid playing for my local team, one of my teammates dads was a scout for Stoke City. Anyhow he took two lads with him from our team who you wouldn't consider the best players, we had a striker who would regular score six goals a game and would eventually turn pro for Bury, yet he got overlooked.

Ten years later this scout was convicted of sexual assault against two kids, he run a market store and would employ children at weekend. I remember my dad saying he knew something was dodgy as the two boys he took down to Stoke were the only two lads who's parents never turned up to watch them play football, he'd even made sure he'd be the one that took them down to Stoke for training.

Now I can't say he ever did anything to the lads but given this case against the Crewe scout, it seems a coincidence.

 

[jojojo]

How would the confidentiality thing work in a case like this. Person who was silenced, now tells their story. Then what does the club do? Get their lawyers to sue the person that was abused? hmm

In principle these things are enforceable, but only up to a point. They might, for example, stop someone presenting a civil case for compensation against the club, though even that can be set aside if it can be proved that the initial settlement was unfair or based on lies or hiding information. What they can't do of course is stop someone giving evidence in a criminal court.

Beyond that, there are rules protecting whistleblowers, where revelations are considered to be in the public interest - and I'm pretty sure these cases would be in that category. In other words, I don't think any club would dare risk suing, and with the media storm around this and the Saville case, I don't even think they would even try and get injunctions to stop players talking about the settlements.

 

[Red Defence]

PIE members were lobbying NCCL officials for the age of consent to be reduced and campaigning for “paedophile love”.

Their view that children were not harmed by having sex with adults appears to have been adopted by those at the top of the civil liberties group.

Today we publish extracts from an NCCL report written for the Criminal Law Revision Committee in 1976 when Mrs Hewitt was general secretary.

It says: “Where both partners are aged 10 or over, but under 14, a consenting sexual act should not be an offence. As the age of consent is arbitrary, we propose an overlap of two years on either side of 14.

“Childhood sexual experiences, willingly engaged in, with an adult result in no identifiable damage.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/46...ildren-does-them-harm-says-Labour-linked-NCCL

Quite by accident came across this strange article which may go some way to explaining why abuse of children was not considered too important in the 70s and 80s.

 

[Cheesy]

SSN headline saying a police investigation has been opened into historic sexual abuse in the youth system in the Greater Manchester area.

 

[jojojo]

SSN headline saying a police investigation has been opened into historic sexual abuse in the youth system in the Greater Manchester area.

We know that Bennell (the coach at the centre of the Crewe case) also worked for City, Stockport and Stoke and for some of the local FA coaching schemes. What we don't know yet is who else might be involved and what the clubs themselves knew/suspected.

Meanwhile Bennell has gone into hospital after being found unconscious:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38134941
The police describe it as a "fear for welfare" incident which can cover a lot of things from a suicide attempt to a drink/drug problem.

 

[Yagami]

The organ player at the church in Levenshulme was rumoured to be one, and parents still let their children go to Sunday school each week. It seems like it wasn't considered such a big thing in those days.

I just had Granada reports on in the background and the man (I didn't catch his name) was saying how he didn't tell his parents as back in those days they'd say stop telling tales and just remain oblivious to the situation. It's such a shame.

 

[sammsky1]

Ex-youth football coach Barry Bennell, who is at the centre of a sex abuse scandal, has been taken to hospital after being found unconscious.
The convicted sex offender was found at an address in Knebworth Park, Stevenage on Friday, Thames Valley Police said.
The force said it was called to a "fear for welfare" incident and the 62-year-old was still in hospital.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38134941


Looks like he has had 'a seeing to' ....

 

[Cheesy]

We know that Bennell (the coach at the centre of the Crewe case) also worked for City, Stockport and Stoke and for some of the local FA coaching schemes. What we don't know yet is who else might be involved and what the clubs themselves knew/suspected.

Meanwhile Bennell has gone into hospital after being found unconscious:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38134941
The police describe it as a "fear for welfare" incident which can cover a lot of things from a suicide attempt to a drink/drug problem.

Yeah very true - you'd hope the bigger clubs he was involved with would've been more stringent than Crewe were.

 

[Kag]

Get the impression he's tried to do himself in. Fingers crossed they can keep him in shape so he can be appropriately punished.

 

[skidmark]

Bennell's just tried to kill himself: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...ital-after-apparent-suicide-attempt-22b8wknm2

Fortunately he failed, that would be too easy a let off.