Gaming Sexual assault allegations on Twitch/YouTube and the gaming industry

[SilentWitness]

Had to stop reading some of those. Vile. Watched those Puppeh clips and he looks about 10 years old in some of them. How the feck could anyone find that sexually attractive is just something that my mind can't comprehend and that woman (Cinnpie) is disgusting. I feel so sorry for all of these people that have had their innocence stripped.

@OleBoiii I keep thinking that too. My parents would never let me meet up with random people on the internet at the age of 14/15, especially if they knew that they were in their late 20s.They were even cautious about me going round to parties with my actual friends at 14/15. I just don't understand how you could let your child do that.

 

[OleBoiii]

Had to stop reading some of those. Vile. Watched those Puppeh clips and he looks about 10 years old in some of them. How the feck could anyone find that sexually attractive is just something that my mind can't comprehend and that woman (Cinnpie) is disgusting. I feel so sorry for all of these people that have had their innocence stripped.

Oh sorry! I should probably have warned people about that one. That's probably the worst of the lot

 

[0le]

Disgusting is too soft a word to describe these things.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Angry Joe had an allegation made against him to do with sexual assault. His lawyers are involved and he’s adamant it’s a lie.

The allegation was that he came on to her which isn't sexual assault and that he pushed her against a wall during an argument which is common assault not sexual assault.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Reading through that, I can’t say it’s surprising. Basically you have a load of 20/30 something year old gamers (nothing weird about that) what’s weird is that the game they’re all fecking playing Is super smash bro’s, I mean ffs if you’re 20-30 years old and spending copious amounts of hours online playing super smash bros with children, something has gone wrong somewhere. And on top of that, attending events and conventions with teenagers with alcohol being served. At no point did anyone not stop and think “hang on a second this is fecking weird”.

 

[OleBoiii]

Reading through that, I can’t say it’s surprising. Basically you have a load of 20/30 something year old gamers (nothing weird about that) what’s weird is that the game they’re all fecking playing Is super smash bro’s, I mean ffs if you’re 20-30 years old and spending copious amounts of hours online playing super smash bros with children, something has gone wrong somewhere. And on top of that, attending events and conventions with teenagers with alcohol being served. At no point did anyone not stop and think “hang on a second this is fecking weird”.

There's not a single competitive game that isn't riddled with children. Some of the more old school stuff are maybe the exception. SSB is no different.

The problem with fighting games is that lag plays a much more crucial part than it does in other games. Because of this, being good online counts for nothing. You basically have to travel consistently to prove yourself and get sponsored.

The only solution that I can think of is to make it illegal for children(i.e. younger than 18) to compete.

 

[Ludens the Red]

There's not a single competitive game that isn't riddled with children. Some of the more old school stuff are maybe the exception. SSB is no different.

The problem with fighting games is that lag plays a much more crucial part than it does in other games. Because of this, being good online counts for nothing. You basically have to travel consistently to prove yourself and get sponsored.

The only solution that I can think of is to make it illegal for children(i.e. younger than 18) to compete.

I guess but I don’t know any adult nor have I ever heard of an adult playing super smash bros. Call of duty, Fortnite, Fifa, Destiny, sure lots of kids play these games but you’re still just as likely to be playing with adults a lot of the time. Super smash bros though?
I remember playing it on GameCube as a 14 year old and feeling it was below me. One of those blokes playing it ‘DJ Nintendo’ is 35.

But yeah they’re going to have to start putting age bans on these things but then I’d imagine for a game like super smash bros they’d lose a considerable amount of attendees. But the way it is now, the online play, the interaction, and then going to the events. The nonces are going to take full advantage.

 

[OleBoiii]

I guess but I don’t know any adult nor have I ever heard of an adult playing super smash bros. Call of duty, Fortnite, Fifa, Destiny, sure lots of kids play these games but you’re still just as likely to be playing with adults a lot of the time. Super smash bros though?
I remember playing it on GameCube as a 14 year old and feeling it was below me. One of those blokes playing it ‘DJ Nintendo’ is 35.

SSB is only big(relatively) in the US, Japan and Mexico. In all other countries it's really niche. But among the people who pay it competitively, I doubt the average age is lower than the people playing CoD and Fortnite.

Blood and tits does not equal "mature" in my book. It's all about complexity and SSB is one of the more complex(Melee in particular).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Would it be stating the bleeding obvious to suggest that we shouldn’t be surprised to hear that many young men who have spent most of their lives playing computer games - and generally online - are unable to make/sustain healthy relationships with the opposite sex in real life?

 

[Rado_N]

Would it be stating the bleeding obvious to suggest that we shouldn’t be surprised to hear that many young men who have spent most of their lives playing computer games - and generally online - are unable to make/sustain healthy relationships with the opposite sex in real life?

That seems like an enormous generalisation.

 

[Wumminator]

That seems like an enormous generalisation.

I don’t think it is when you have an idea of the type of people that get heavily involved in these circles. Gaming culture is toxic and continues to reward toxic behaviour.

 

[Rado_N]

I don’t think it is when you have an idea of the type of people that get heavily involved in these circles. Gaming culture is toxic and continues to reward toxic behaviour.

There's plenty of people on here who would likely fall into the category of spending most of their lives playing games or generally being online.

Ok never mind.

 

[OleBoiii]

Would it be stating the bleeding obvious to suggest that we shouldn’t be surprised to hear that many young men who have spent most of their lives playing computer games - and generally online - are unable to make/sustain healthy relationships with the opposite sex in real life?

We're long past the time where excessive gaming was considered geeky/for social outcasts. It's completely mainstream now. So much have happened in the last 10-15 years. I think the two main reasons for why we see so many scandals in the gaming community is:

1. Young people today are more woke(in a good way) and tech-savvy . When someone in the community fecks up, you will hear about it.
2. There are no other setting where kids and adults spend so much time together.

Number 1 is a good thing, though mob justice can be dangerous. Number 2 is what we need to address. Predators will always exist, but we need to make it much harder for them.

 

[mariachi-19]

Would it be stating the bleeding obvious to suggest that we shouldn’t be surprised to hear that many young men who have spent most of their lives playing computer games - and generally online - are unable to make/sustain healthy relationships with the opposite sex in real life?

Not really any different to legal, medical and political professions. Generally it seems to come from positions of power and a lack of repercussions from their actions.

 

[Ekeke]

So a couple of things, my younger brother used to watch Rekful back in the day. I didnt. I obviously still think its sad, RIP

Around 2012 I was very much into the FGC and especially Street Fighter 4. I was part of the IRC chatroom thats brought up in the allegations against Evo/Mr. Wizard

I remember Crackpron from the chatroom and spent a decent amount of time talking to people in there and about the community with the idea that I would travel to Evo at some point.

As for the allegations/screenshots provided I had no such interactions with Mr. Wizard, only ever remember talking to him in the general chatroom and asking questions about the evo livestream because they made a deal one year for it to be shown on playstation home or something. And it turned out it was only for the US and not available in EU, so I was asking why it wasnt working.

So absolutely no new info to shed light on anything, but I was around in those circles oblivious to that going on. It was mostly people from the US in IRC and the only well known player from EU that was in there that I would talk to would be Alioune, a player from France who was friendly and helpful.

 

[hobbers]

Would it be stating the bleeding obvious to suggest that we shouldn’t be surprised to hear that many young men who have spent most of their lives playing computer games - and generally online - are unable to make/sustain healthy relationships with the opposite sex in real life?

It probably doesn't help that on the other half of a lot of these unhealthy relationships are equally socially awkward girls who spend all their time gaming and streaming on twitch.

 

[NotThatSoph]

I guess but I don’t know any adult nor have I ever heard of an adult playing super smash bros. Call of duty, Fortnite, Fifa, Destiny, sure lots of kids play these games but you’re still just as likely to be playing with adults a lot of the time. Super smash bros though?
I remember playing it on GameCube as a 14 year old and feeling it was below me. One of those blokes playing it ‘DJ Nintendo’ is 35.

But yeah they’re going to have to start putting age bans on these things but then I’d imagine for a game like super smash bros they’d lose a considerable amount of attendees. But the way it is now, the online play, the interaction, and then going to the events. The nonces are going to take full advantage.

I'm sorry, what on earth? Especially with Fortnite, and probably Fifa as well, you're much more likely to play vs children than with Smash.

 

[christy87]

I guess but I don’t know any adult nor have I ever heard of an adult playing super smash bros. Call of duty, Fortnite, Fifa, Destiny, sure lots of kids play these games but you’re still just as likely to be playing with adults a lot of the time. Super smash bros though?
I remember playing it on GameCube as a 14 year old and feeling it was below me. One of those blokes playing it ‘DJ Nintendo’ is 35.

But yeah they’re going to have to start putting age bans on these things but then I’d imagine for a game like super smash bros they’d lose a considerable amount of attendees. But the way it is now, the online play, the interaction, and then going to the events. The nonces are going to take full advantage.

Playing destiny there is a fair few kids playing, but most group chats that I’ve been in once they hear the kids voice it’s kick him/her, can’t stand the squeaky voice.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

I guess but I don’t know any adult nor have I ever heard of an adult playing super smash bros.

I can honestly say I’ve never heard of an adult that has not heard of an adult playing SSB.

 

[Reditus]

Would it be stating the bleeding obvious to suggest that we shouldn’t be surprised to hear that many young men who have spent most of their lives playing computer games - and generally online - are unable to make/sustain healthy relationships with the opposite sex in real life?

I think I’d disagree with that. Although I’m saying that as a 40 year old bloke happily married with kids who has played games all my life. I don’t think I’m the exception.

Surely you must know there are crazy people in all walks of life, you are hearing about these issues because video games are a popular social media topic.

 

[jungledrums]

Would it be stating the bleeding obvious to suggest that we shouldn’t be surprised to hear that many young men who have spent most of their lives playing computer games - and generally online - are unable to make/sustain healthy relationships with the opposite sex in real life?

It would not be, no.

That seems like an enormous generalisation.

Undoubtedly.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That seems like an enormous generalisation.

It’s definitely a generalisation! I was careful to say “many”, not “all” though. I’m not saying all gamers are socially awkward potential sexual predators, just that a proportion of the very very good ones probably are.

Don’t they have to play basically all day, every day, to get that good? Starting as pre teens? How do they have time to do the sort of “normal” social interacting, in real life, that is necessary to grow and develop as a well balanced person? Plus - as @Wumminator said - the whole gaming culture does seem to tend towards being problematic, in terms of attitudes to women. Which you could see with the gamergate stuff. That’s a combination which was always going to have the potential for something like this to happen.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I'm sorry, what on earth? Especially with Fortnite, and probably Fifa as well, you're much more likely to play vs children than with Smash.

No chance not fifa. There is absolutely no chance in hell more adults play smash bros than Fifa.

I can honestly say I’ve never heard of an adult that has not heard of an adult playing SSB.

Honestly I don’t know a single adult who even has a Nintendo. Maybe it’s different in America as what’s his face said earlier?

Playing destiny there is a fair few kids playing, but most group chats that I’ve been in once they hear the kids voice it’s kick him/her, can’t stand the squeaky voice.

Probably what I’d do...

 

[Tarrou]

I've worked with Redeye in the past and was shocked to hear he's retiring over this - without knowing much about it the allegations didn't seem too bad compared to the other shit going down in the industry. His company was about to list on the TSXv too so wonder what will happen with that. He'll be back though I've no doubt, he absolutely lives and breathes esports.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

This is hard to follow given I'm not aware of any of these names. So how does it work? I mean, streamers broadcast their content online. How is that creating a dangerous environment for rape and sexual assault to fester? Or is it these gaming events taking place? If so, why is there a culture of rape or sexual assault? I'd imaging any such incidents would get reported to the cops and they'd be in trouble. What's creating this dangerous situation and suppression?

 

[NotThatSoph]

No chance not fifa. There is absolutely no chance in hell more adults play smash bros than Fifa.

Of course it's not true that more adults play Smash than Fifa, because Fifa has a much larger player base. That's why it's a good thing that I didn't say that, I was of course talking about proportions, because a lot more kids play Fifa rather than Smash as well.

I started playing Fifa when I was 7 years old, and I first tried Smash when I was a teenager. When I was a kid, everyone I knew who had a compatible console had Fifa. Every single one. The girls and the boys.

You said you tried it on GameCube, so you probably played Melee. Well, that game is nearly 20 years old and still has a very competitive tournament scene. How many kids do you think play a 20 year old game?

I shouldn't have said that you're much more likely to play vs a kid in Fifa than Smash, because I don't actually know and it might be wrong, but your view of the Smash player base is way off. It's not in any meaningful sense of the word a kids game just because it has cartoon characters in it. It's a fighting game, and people love fighting games.

 

[VivaObertan]

Had to stop reading some of those. Vile. Watched those Puppeh clips and he looks about 10 years old in some of them. How the feck could anyone find that sexually attractive is just something that my mind can't comprehend and that woman (Cinnpie) is disgusting. I feel so sorry for all of these people that have had their innocence stripped.

@OleBoiii I keep thinking that too. My parents would never let me meet up with random people on the internet at the age of 14/15, especially if they knew that they were in their late 20s.They were even cautious about me going round to parties with my actual friends at 14/15. I just don't understand how you could let your child do that.

I used to play in gaming tournaments from age 14-20 (in the 2000s) and that would involve me travelling around the UK either in car pools or alone on the train. I'd regularly be sharing a hotel room with 4/5 people, usually two or so I'd have never met before. (It was fine.)

 

[Damien]

This is hard to follow given I'm not aware of any of these names. So how does it work? I mean, streamers broadcast their content online. How is that creating a dangerous environment for rape and sexual assault to fester? Or is it these gaming events taking place? If so, why is there a culture of rape or sexual assault? I'd imaging any such incidents would get reported to the cops and they'd be in trouble. What's creating this dangerous situation and suppression?

@OleBoiii summed it up by saying that due to lag in fighting games online, there's more travelling involved for competitive events to prove themselves rather than being able to play at home so it appears to be happening a fair bit there as people meet up in the flesh and grooming happens and can also happen online through collaborations and stuff. Some successful streamers also rent out houses for 20+ streamers to live in where things aren't supervised.

As for why there aren't more reports at the time, in a lot of cases it is grooming. The victim doesn't think there is anything wrong at the time then realise years later what happened as they've probably repressed some memories. In other cases it can be shame, they've been threatened or don't want to go through the trauma of the legal system. There are a whole plethora of reasons why sexual assaults aren't reported and it is the case everywhere and not just in this industry.

 

[Zen86]

@OleBoiii I keep thinking that too. My parents would never let me meet up with random people on the internet at the age of 14/15, especially if they knew that they were in their late 20s.They were even cautious about me going round to parties with my actual friends at 14/15. I just don't understand how you could let your child do that.

Crazy how things are now. 20 years ago (that makes me feel old) when I was a kid and chat rooms were just getting going, we were basically told that everyone online was probably a peadophile. You didn’t post pictures or any personal information whatsoever, nevermind meet up with anyone.

 

[SilentWitness]

I used to play in gaming tournaments from age 14-20 (in the 2000s) and that would involve me travelling around the UK either in car pools or alone on the train. I'd regularly be sharing a hotel room with 4/5 people, usually two or so I'd have never met before. (It was fine.)

Glad you were safe but surely you can now see the dangers of a 14 year old sharing hotel rooms with 4/5 people that they've never met before!

 

[dumbo]

Super Smash Bros is a far more sophisticated competitive game than FIFA. It's actually a gamers game, in comparison FIFA is an interactive panini sticker album for doofus children with a burgeoning gambling problem. Beneath you. ha. ha.

 

[hobbers]

The competitive side isnt really where the big danger is. It’s the whole ‘growing a following on twitch’ side where these well known streamers promote girls who have ambitions to basically make it on PG13 chaturbate. Which is what they should rename the Just Chatting twitch category to.

 

[OleBoiii]

Crazy how things are now. 20 years ago (that makes me feel old) when I was a kid and chat rooms were just getting going, we were basically told that everyone online was probably a peadophile. You didn’t post pictures or any personal information whatsoever, nevermind meet up with anyone.

I reckon the time around 2005 was one of the worst in terms of exploitation. Teenagers were starting to get their own computers with decent internet connection in their own bedrooms, and the parents seemed to have no clue about what happened online. It was a jungle in terms of regular girls stripping in front of their web cam and sending nudes. Teens showing lewd stuff to other teens isn't that bad(and it's always been this way). But I can't shake the feeling that some of these girls probably also sent/showed lewd stuff to adults. Back then people really didn't realize that this shit doesn't go away.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Crazy how things are now. 20 years ago (that makes me feel old) when I was a kid and chat rooms were just getting going, we were basically told that everyone online was probably a peadophile. You didn’t post pictures or any personal information whatsoever, nevermind meet up with anyone.

Ay. In terms of pure sociology, the move from pseudonymous environments (e.g., using an avatar like on the caf) towards open online environments has led to a lot of complacency.

People's guards should always be up if you can't see the person you're interacting with, and even then people will almost certainly conceal themselves because you can't be that open online.

I'm fairly sure the only reason this isn't the usual rhetoric is because businesses have sought to create a 'safer looking' net. It suits them more than it suits us.

/paranoia

 

[SilentWitness]

Crazy how things are now. 20 years ago (that makes me feel old) when I was a kid and chat rooms were just getting going, we were basically told that everyone online was probably a peadophile. You didn’t post pictures or any personal information whatsoever, nevermind meet up with anyone.

Yeah, even when I grew into my late teens and I started to use apps like Tinder I was still pretty cautious. It shocked me how many people were willing to give out their number or socials to people within 2 or 3 messages.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

@OleBoiii summed it up by saying that due to lag in fighting games online, there's more travelling involved for competitive events to prove themselves rather than being able to play at home so it appears to be happening a fair bit there as people meet up in the flesh and grooming happens and can also happen online through collaborations and stuff. Some successful streamers also rent out houses for 20+ streamers to live in where things aren't supervised.

As for why there aren't more reports at the time, in a lot of cases it is grooming. The victim doesn't think there is anything wrong at the time then realise years later what happened as they've probably repressed some memories. In other cases it can be shame, they've been threatened or don't want to go through the trauma of the legal system. There are a whole plethora of reasons why sexual assaults aren't reported and it is the case everywhere and not just in this industry.

I think there’s also a nouveau riche thing going on with all the money flowing into esports and streaming/YouTubers in recent years. This creates an environment where people are getting a taste of fame and money, along with the inflated ego and plastic friends that comes with that.

So you have some people thinking they are hot stuff and can do whatever they want in a culture rife with sexism, and they find people to exploit. That also is not unique to this industry.

 

[OleBoiii]

Some successful streamers also rent out houses for 20+ streamers to live in where things aren't supervised.

These gamer/streamer houses are a big part of the problem, imo. They need to be a thing of the past, quickly.

 

[VivaObertan]

Glad you were safe but surely you can now see the dangers of a 14 year old sharing hotel rooms with 4/5 people that they've never met before!

Yeah of course I can! I was brought up on the internet (now in my 30s) and had a PC from the age of 3-4 so I was very aware of the sort of things were happening and I'm guessing my parents were a little naive to what was happening on the internet otherwise my access would've been restricted.

I really do think this whole thing is down to a few contributing factors:
- The ease of access and popularity of games in general.
- The personalities that games etc. appeal to.
- The fame and recognition that comes with being a streamer / gamer in the preset day.

 

[Snow]

Would it be stating the bleeding obvious to suggest that we shouldn’t be surprised to hear that many young men who have spent most of their lives playing computer games - and generally online - are unable to make/sustain healthy relationships with the opposite sex in real life?

I fail to see the correlation between molesting and raping young boys and playing video games.

Not sure what you're trying to say here. "Young men that have spent most of their lives playing computer games". I'm guessing you're not saying men that play more than 12 hours a day as in "most of their lives" in the literal sense so you're being hyperbolic. What is ca. the amount of video game playing you're talking about?

 

[SilentWitness]

These gamer/streamer houses are a big part of the problem, imo. They need to be a thing of the past, quickly.

Yeah, not even just from the issues we are speaking about here but also from levels of respect too.


2:30 of this video one of the team houses that people were staying in is a fecking mess and their excuse was "yeah, we were gonna get maids to do it".