I am not aware anyone is calling for her to be executed (outside DM comments section) but there is a large difference between being conscripted into your own country’s army during a war and actively absconding from your home country to a faraway country to join IS. Also, the Wehrmacht were not actively publicising to potential recruits the atrocities they became involved in.
Shamima Begum, IS teen wants to come back to the UK
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Which is why the person who brought up the World War II comparison was entirely inappropriate, but if we’re going to argue on a straw man narrative, we may as well be accurate about it: Daesh is more comparable to the Nazi Party and the SS than it is the German army, and of which plenty of people who participated were not executed and received prison sentences.
Exactly. This is a person who fled from the country who welcomed her, joined a terror organization which ultimate goal is to topple the West and kill anyone different to them, and then she expects to be welcomed back because they lost? Get a fecking grip.
Also I think there is something like 150 jihadi brides from the UK. Let's say 100 of them return to the UK. They will never work a day in their life and will have to be supported, plus the intelligence service will have to monitor them for the rest of their life. What will the total cost be? Is it fair that tax dollar go towards harboring and surveilling people who decided to abandon their country and openly despise the society they left behind?
Of course that is all true and her decisions were appalling and her beliefs are repellent.
However, I genuinely don't see how not delivering justice in our courts and showing a level of compassionate responsibility for one of our citizens can be wrong. We must take a moral highground, I believe, whilst punishing terrible crimes appropriately through our legal systems.
He was 22 years old when they married. Hardly twice her age.
Apologies if that is incorrect but I thought she said requested to marry someone between the ages of 20 and 25 and ended up with a 27 year old?
That may have been one of the other girls. Her husband is 26yrs old at the moment.
Spot on and this is the bitter truth. Here in Indonesia, it was only last year that former Isis combatants staged a prison riot and brutally killed five police officers by having their throats slit.
I sympathise with those who disagree with this approach, for in an ideal world we must always try to reintegrate these terrorists back into society. But we don't live in la-la land and most often than not it's a waste of time and resources to deradicalise them. At the end of the day, a line needs to be drawn when it comes to these psychopaths and it really is an unfortunate predicament for everyone involved.
Plenty of volunteers in the German army. IS in its early incarnation was about fighting Assad and carving out a Sunni state in the Lavent. We weren't that bothered until they inspired attacks here
I’d say due process should be followed. She is/was a British National. As such she should be brought back and made to face legal action and whatever outcome of that should be what is followed.
What on earth does this have to do with anything? Sympathy for ISIS now, whatever next.
By the time she joined, it was clear what type of organisation it was (even if it was anything different to start with). Besides, German volunteering for German army is different to British citizen going to foreign country to fight for organisation which claims to hate Britain and the West.
Yes, it’s a difficult question (and I wasn’t arguing for her to be strung up). I’d be inclined to go with the advice of the security services - in terms of preventing such cases in the future (and reducing the risk of terror attacks), is it better to attempt to rehabilitate her (combined with a trial and presumably a custodial sentence) or should we cut her off completely? Part of me thinks “f*ck her” but this should not be a decision based on emotion.
That’s not accurate.
UK Government in Sticky Situation with Shamima Begum Waffle.
100% Correct.
Western intervention against ISIS commenced summer 2014 after this:
That’s almost six months before these girls made their trip.
In any case IS in its early incarnation was about fomenting a sectarian civil war in Iraq.
Bangladeshi government says Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen
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When she was groomed the ISIS propaganda would mostly revolve around how awful assad was
It isn't
Almost 6 months! That's such a looooong period of time to see one specific video amongst many on the Internet.
So where will she and her baby end up now then?
Don’t blame them. I fail to see how it’s their problem either.
We need to fix the laws on this
Send her on that manned mission to Mars
the government knows their position is illegal. it's pathetic pandering to an ignorant public.
feck me i hate politics.
feck me i hate politics.
If ISIS has just stuck to murdering people with drones they'd have been considered civilised.
Guess who's on Peston today?
'I make no apology for protecting the people of Britain' - Tory house 'muslim' , Sajid Javid
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Apart from the obvious pandering, it could also be used to buy time till a more permanent solution is found.
Like I said before, there’s very widespread public support for long sentences without parole for people colluding with or being members of terrorist organisations. Longer than the ones stipulated by law right now.
Change the laws, create a prison for that purpose (so they don’t radicalise others) and throw them in there for a minimum of 20-30 years. It’s not the easy or extremely cheap solution... but it’s the proper solution and the people will love whoever pulls it off. There’s even some political capital there to be made.
It doesn't matter. The 'Islamic state' was no more of a state than it would be if I hoisted a flag up on my house and declared that a new state. They were not recognised by any country, did not have any treaties, were not part of any international organisations and did not function as a state.
You're right, the comparison others are making about isis being a state doesn't hold up at all.
No she doesn't need to have a link to Syria to be thrown into a Syrian jail and if they want to do that, then I won't have any qualms. Syria doesn't work like that. As far as I'm aware, you get Syrian citizenship based on your father and nothing to do with where you were born. She is not Syrian and her child is not Syrian. She has no link to Syria but if they want to keep her in jail, fair enough. The 'state' she joined was never a state though and has nothing to do with the state of Syria. We cant just wash out hands of her and we can't just make her stateless either, whether people like it or not. If people want to keep her out there in a camp and say she can't come back, fair enough. If people want to charge her in the UK, lock her up and throw away the key, again no worries. But she is not Syria's problem.
Javid said the power to remove citizenship had been used 150 times since 2010, in the cases of people linked to terrorism and serious crimes.
But he was challenged by Diane Abbott, the shadow home secretary, who said the government had been defeated in two cases where it had attempted to strip people of UK citizenship who were of Bangladeshi heritage.
Of approximately 900 people who had gone to Syria from the UK, 20% were believed to have been killed and about 40% had returned to the UK, the home secretary said. “I assure this house the majority have been assessed to pose no or a low-security status,” he said.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/20/rights-of-shamima-begums-son-not-affected-says-javid
But he was challenged by Diane Abbott, the shadow home secretary, who said the government had been defeated in two cases where it had attempted to strip people of UK citizenship who were of Bangladeshi heritage.
Of approximately 900 people who had gone to Syria from the UK, 20% were believed to have been killed and about 40% had returned to the UK, the home secretary said. “I assure this house the majority have been assessed to pose no or a low-security status,” he said.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/20/rights-of-shamima-begums-son-not-affected-says-javid
I don't understand what you're doing here. By this point, it was very very clear what ISIS were like. They did not hide it. Instead, they revelled in it. Their propaganda videos had some lovely music yes, some lovely imagery but it also explicitly contained references to what they were doing. Including stuff like beheadings.
I don't know, if I'm moving to a new country, I would do a little reading. Oh they behead people? Oh they torture and use non muslim women as sex slaves? Interesting. Probably not going to that country then.
What videos was she supposed to be seeing instead? Where did ISIS try to hide what they were doing?
The problem is that she liked that aspect of what they were doing, could happily tolerate it or perhaps decided this was somehow a conspiracy. One of my wife's friends is from Mosul was certainly in the latter category. Did not believe for a second any of the videos were real, any of the stories were real. When they first rolled into Mosul, she thought of them as heroes, revolutionaries, removing them from Shia rule. It took radio silence from her family still there for months and them eventually managing to sneak out a few messages here and there with the atrocities they were committing before she decided to believe the truth.
Of course, like Begum, her family had the luck to be Sunni, rather than Shia, Yazidi, Christian etc and weren't subjected to torture, rape and slavery and death unless they poked their head above the parapets.
So it took your wife's friend ages to know what ISIS were but a 15 year old girl must have known everything before she joined them
Except non of that would apply to her as you can't be sentenced based on something that becomes crime after you have committed it.
Ok, so implicitly you are accepting Javid’s line that she is no longer British. If her loyalty to (a twisted version of) her religion as expressed by signing up for adventures in a foreign country (and bearing in mind that, being of Bangladeshi origin, she has no more blood connection to Iraq and Syria than I do), trumps her loyalty to the UK, then she has forfeited her right to citizenship.
One would think they’d do a little research into the new area they are moving to if it’s half way around the world and they’re leaving their family behind.
My wife's friend (or really colleague) is a hateful idiot who despises Shia Muslims and would want them purged from Mosul if she was given the chance. She is so blinded by hate that she was willing to disregard everything that this group did.
So yeah, she's not exactly someone who I'd say is a great contributor to British society or someone I'd be super happy to be around either if I'm frank.
It is concerning for me that people with this world view exist who are willing to disregard everything this group does (or actively revel in it).
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And this, i don’t think I’ve seen her come out and say oh shit I thought it was all a conspiracy. She seems to have no regrets to moving out there and staying so long, she just wants from there now she’s pregnant again?
Oct 2018 was a long time ago bro!
5 months before they went out Alan Henning was beheaded by Jihadi John (ISIL) and there were other beheadings too. Major news in most countries and certainly in the UK. No-one can expect us to believe that these 3 girls missed all these specific vids and news bulletins, not to mention talk of the atrocities, even if there are a lot of vids on the internet. Surely these vids would be the pride of ISIL and their recruiting campaign.