If it wasn't for the fact he has just been brought on, I'm sure Scott Parker would have subbed him off for taking such a low xG shot!
Shea Lacey
- Thread starter top1whoisman
- Start date
If it wasn't for the fact he has just been brought on, I'm sure Scott Parker would have subbed him off for taking such a low xG shot!
You're correct, it's 3 times in every hundred. I was sloppy in my frustration saying thousand.
You state that Lacey has a talent for that type of shot, what are you basing that on? The two he took tonight, that both missed? He took similar one against Villa, that was an easy catch for Martinez. Where's the evidence of him scoring at an above average rate with them?
You're right that players going close and not scoring doesn't mean they were wrong to try. That depends on the circumstances. In this case, Sesko and Dalot were an easy pass away in the box, they would have been better options.
By your logic, every shot that doesn’t go in is useless and a waste of time. How else is a player meant to score if he doesn’t shoot? No player in the world has 100% conversion rate.
Put down your weapons and stop trying to fight a terrible point you’ve tried to make.
Imagine reigning in an 18 year old Ronaldo by digging out his xG when he’s rattled the bar from distance.
Cutting in on his left and scoring curlers is something he's known for and he got great power on both of them today reasonable direction on the second and a rizla paper away with the 1st. It's fair to say he knows how to cut in and strike a ball.
Anyway this is boring. Enjoy whatever it is you're trying to do here.
It’s as if @The Hilton doesn’t know anything about the player or the club he plays for…
In fairness, as a winger who has just cut on to their favoured foot and finds themselves in space within shooting distance, you'd be a fool to try your luck from there when you have Dalot nearby.
That isn't my logic, you've strawmanned my argument. The logic is this - low percentage shots taken, when teammates are in more dangerous positions and a pass is on to take advantage (be it setting up a cross to someone free in the box, or, in this case, a simple ball in to Sesko's feet), are the wrong decision if they don't result in a goal.
I hope Rooney felt very ashamed after this. Ronaldo was in loads of space on the left and the Xg on this shot was pathetic.
Honestly it would be strange if he didn't. He's a tiny, left-footed RW. Seems like the exact type of player you'd most think would be above average accuracy from that sort of position.
And that's how you end up with a team full of players that lack courage and conviction to make things happen and instead look for the low risk, safe option.
Being known for something at youth level, and translating it to PL level, are very different things. But I looked into your assertion that he's known for scoring them. He's scored 3 goals at youth level this season, 2 last season, so 5 in 2 years. I had a watch of his highlights from those seasons, to see if he was banging in shots like that regularly, and none of them are "cutting in and scoring curlers". There's one brilliant left footed strike this season from a central area, but there's plenty of left footed strikes that didn't go in either. Great shooting technique, but nothing that suggests he's so far above the average Premier League player, for whom the average is 3 goals in 100, to make it a high percentage opportunity.
I know I'm killing the vibes a bit, but really that's all your bigging up of him is based on. Even hyperbole like "rizla paper", the strike hit the upper side of the bar and bounced clear.
I agree that he does know how to cut in and strike a ball. What he needs to learn is when not to. That'll come in time I expect.
No, that's how you end up with a team of players that don't waste promising opportunities with low percentage efforts, and instead take the high reward, more efficient option.
More cutbacks from Jim Ratty then?
And what's the low percentage, more efficient option - running at players, or a sideways pass to someone in space. Crossing a ball or cutting back and playing the ball to your fullback.
Bruno is far and away our most productive player and he has built a career on trying to create things, regardless of xA or other nonsense. Trying to curb that just makes you more pedestrian.
If he had a wild shot from a tight angle rather than lay off a pass to a player who was open in front of goal, sure, it would be a poor decision. But a winger cutting into space and working an opening within shooting range is exactly the type of situation where we should be expecting them to shoot.
Bruno regularly gets slated for trying low probability ‘Hollywood’ passes and conceding possession, in fairness.
True, but while sometimes he does it in daft situations or executes them badly, can you imagine how bad we would be without it. If he started looking for the safe option every time we'd lack any sort of creativity.
Isn't this the lad that was in the England squad and called up by Tuchel for trainings.
Yeah that’s fair.
I guess there’s two different concepts at play here. If, after 10 or 20 games it turns out that every time Lacey gets the ball he immediately tries to smash it in the top corner from 40 yards then obviously you’d want someone to have a word with him about picking the most effective choice for the good of the team. But he can hardly be blamed for having a go at it tonight.
I'm with @Stobzilla . I get your thinking but you never know. He could take to his first start like a duck to water. Think Rashford vs that team I can't spell and Arsenal, Januzaj vs Sunderland, Mainoo vs Everton. And if he does, it'll be a huge boost to know that we have a player like him in the squad that can be relied upon if needed.
Young lad comes on, inches away from winning the game with a worldie and we have to read posts about the xG of his shot. FFS.
Amazing. This place.
Loved his attitude. Clearly had bags of talent and a great shooting technique on him. We need youngsters coming through as we're short on them and we need them to get some chances, glad fletch gave him the shot. Mentality is a big thing and be clearly believed in himself. Love to see it.
Was it the best decision to shoot at the end, no, but you don't develop into a big player without showing self confidence
Was it the best decision to shoot at the end, no, but you don't develop into a big player without showing self confidence
I don't know much about xG or xA or any other stats that may or may not be useful. I know that they negatively impact my personal enjoyment of the game by reducing the variety of shots and goals which is extremely important for my entertainment. So, I'm glad Lacey went for it, in both situations.
What doesn't make sense to me, is that you assume teammates who are in dangerous positions but do not have the ball have a higher xG. In my uneducated opinion you would need to first factor in the xWhatever of the pass/cross to them. And then based on the outcome of that pass/cross, you'd only be able to determine the xG of the receiving player when he has the ball under control and is able to shoot. This is not even considering that both Utd and Burnley players are constantly moving. Your reasoning is based on static information for a dynamic situation, so imo flawed.
I actually agree that he shouldn't have taken that last shot - but in a way I am glad he did. I would much rather have someone like Lacey who tries to win the game than someone who is afraid to take that responsibility. And everyone understands why he did it (even if it maybe wasn't the best option from so far out) - he was full of energy, he almost succeeded 10 minutes earlier and he wanted to prove himself.
Lacey showed that he is very close to being a regular in the squad - and I would much rather have that kind of person in the squad, than someone who "plays it safe"
Lacey showed that he is very close to being a regular in the squad - and I would much rather have that kind of person in the squad, than someone who "plays it safe"
The fact that Amorim put Fletcher and mantato or whatever his name is out there on the right instead of him just seems ridic
Tinfoil hat firmly on, it felt like making another point after Amorim refused to give him minutes at the start and the media gave him shit for it
I think that Amorim was aware that the end was close and decided to give Mantato his debut. Players remember the manager that give them their debuts.
I do think the perspective is skewed by the first one hitting the crossbar. I personally wouldn't be concerned if we were leading, but in that situation I do think it would be better to try and work towards creating a better clear opportunity.
But then given how dumb we generally are around the area I have little confidence anything would have amounted to much.
But then given how dumb we generally are around the area I have little confidence anything would have amounted to much.
Ridiculous to overly blame him for the shot. He was so close on the first one and second was a great shot too, although he could have recycled it. And what we souldnt win the game either. He had the confidence and most importantly has the ability to put it in and he shoul dbe taking those. Especially when oppo doesnt know him and didnt defend him that well. What is more appalling is absolutely one of the worst efforts Mainoo tried earlier in the game along with Martinez horrible effort where of all people him couldnt thread the ball in the box to Dorgu which was ain a good position. And yes I know he was pressed but still enough time to make a pass instead of absolutely stupid shot.
Lacey actually took one brilliant and second decent effort which showed his huge potential and if this showed us he can be more trusted and it kickstarts his career, it could be only beneficial for us long term.
You can only blame Sesko for his 4 wasted big chances, or others' poor effort. We had 30 shots in the game and couldnt outscore them. Tht's not very good conversion rate and Lacey shouldnt be blamed for that.
Lacey actually took one brilliant and second decent effort which showed his huge potential and if this showed us he can be more trusted and it kickstarts his career, it could be only beneficial for us long term.
You can only blame Sesko for his 4 wasted big chances, or others' poor effort. We had 30 shots in the game and couldnt outscore them. Tht's not very good conversion rate and Lacey shouldnt be blamed for that.
You're right that there are assumptions made about how easy the pass is and the quality of the chance. That doesn't make the reasoning flawed, it just means there's no way to say for certain what the xG of the shot Sesko may have had is for an objective comparison.
This shouldn't be all that controversial, I'm willing to bed there's been times watching United where a player has taken a shot where you think they should have played the ball to a better placed teammate.
He should have got more minutes in the last few weeks.
Hopefully he starts vs Brighton on Sunday.
Hopefully he starts vs Brighton on Sunday.
Bruno gets absolutely hammered on here for shooting wastefully and ignoring better placed teammates when we're chasing a game, and that's despite him being orders of magnitude more accomplished at shooting and scoring at this level.
I'd be more annoyed at Bruno in this situation, as with his experience and vision he should know better. It's much more forgivable by Lacey, but that doesn't change that shooting here was the wrong decision.
How has he been for the youth teams? Always been an outstanding talent? Was surprised at how good and confident he looked yesterday
Can’t believe we’ve gone from all our forwards preferring to play off the left, to now having so many options off the right!
Did you not hear the commentators say that move was his trademark move, and Darren Fletcher mentioned that too. If Bruno did the exact same thing and smashed the post I'd have no complaints, I'd probably think "nice turn of pace"
A young player coming into the team with no fear getting people off their seats, what more can you ask for.
Its a good problem to have but we now have Amad, Mbuemo and Lacey as options on the right wing. Feels a waste to shift him to the left wing when he cant come inside and hit worldies but realistically that seems an easier path to the team for now. What is he like on that side?
Looks tidy.
Make sure he gets a good 30mins against Brighton, although that will be a tough, tough game...
He has done more in his brief appearances, than a number of so-called first XI players I could name.
Make sure he gets a good 30mins against Brighton, although that will be a tough, tough game...
He has done more in his brief appearances, than a number of so-called first XI players I could name.
If he insists on shooting despite being crowded by defenders (I call this The Rashford) then sure, but not when he's in space in the edge of the box.
Did you not hear the commentators say that move was his trademark move, and Darren Fletcher mentioned that too. If Bruno did the exact same thing and smashed the post I'd have no complaints, I'd probably think "nice turn of pace"
A young player coming into the team with no fear getting people off their seats, what more can you ask for.
That's the same argument that was regularly made in favour of Garnacho. Getting fans up off their seat.
Lacey in his two cameos has as many shots as he has successful passes. I think it's a fair point to want to see him get his head up a bit more, as he seems to be shooting on sight.