Shea Lacey

What a stark contrast between managers..

Fletcher talking about all of Lacey's qualities and promise, rather than focusing on limitations and improvements

Got to keep them grounded with the dressing room and training ground culture but backing the lads publicly is so much better than slamming them
 
The Hilton said:
That's the same argument that was regularly made in favour of Garnacho. Getting fans up off their seat.

Lacey in his two cameos has as many shots as he has successful passes. I think it's a fair point to want to see him get his head up a bit more, as he seems to be shooting on sight.
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Because we needed a goal on both occasions. God forbid a player show some urgency.
 
The Hilton said:
That's the same argument that was regularly made in favour of Garnacho. Getting fans up off their seat.

Lacey in his two cameos has as many shots as he has successful passes. I think it's a fair point to want to see him get his head up a bit more, as he seems to be shooting on sight.
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Well, if that had been Garnacho's second outing last night, people would rightfully be excited. If Lacey is wasting opportunities and shooting from everywhere after 50 appearances then maybe this will be comparable. I am sure Fletcher told him to do his thing and he did and it was so close to being absolutely glorious.
 
Players always over do it on their debut, Lacey has never come across as greedy before so I think he'll be fine. That said the club do need to be careful as he develops and not over praise highlight moments in favour of team play, it's clear that's what happened with Rashford and Garnacho.
 
Stobzilla said:
Because we needed a goal on both occasions. God forbid a player show some urgency.
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This line of thinking can be used to justify shooting from literally anywhere. Urgency is important, but so is awareness, composure, etc.

Bastian said:
Well, if that had been Garnacho's second outing last night, people would rightfully be excited. If Lacey is wasting opportunities and shooting from everywhere after 50 appearances then maybe this will be comparable. I am sure Fletcher told him to do his thing and he did and it was so close to being absolutely glorious.
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It's fine the be excited about his potential while accepting that he made the wrong decision to shoot. It was close to being glorious, but it wasn't, when you take away the hyperbole it's just another shot off target. Which would be fine, if there were no other options, but there were better placed teammates within easy passing range.
 
The Hilton said:
This line of thinking can be used to justify shooting from literally anywhere. Urgency is important, but so is awareness, composure, etc.



It's fine the be excited about his potential while accepting that he made the wrong decision to shoot. It was close to being glorious, but it wasn't, when you take away the hyperbole it's just another shot off target. Which would be fine, if there were no other options, but there were better placed teammates within easy passing range.
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This is not the hill to die on mate.
 
Bastian said:
This is not the hill to die on mate.
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I'm just trying to keep things down to Earth. There are posts in this thread suggesting he's our most exciting academy graduate in decades, there are comparisons with Messi and Ronaldo, there's loads of hyperbole about his potential, we even have posts massively inflating his height, for crying out loud.

I'm just as excited to see what he can do as everyone else. But he hasn't actually done anything yet, which you wouldn't know reading this thread.
 
The Hilton said:
I'm just trying to keep things down to Earth. There are posts in this thread suggesting he's our most exciting academy graduate in decades, there are comparisons with Messi and Ronaldo, there's loads of hyperbole about his potential, we even have posts massively inflating his height, for crying out loud.

I'm just as excited to see what he can do as everyone else. But he hasn't actually done anything yet, which you wouldn't know reading this thread.
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That's completely different to saying he should not have taken on that shot. I don't see anyone going off the rails here about him, comparing him to Messi. Goal posts have moved it seems.
 
People giving out about Lacey’s shot like we hadn’t seen our midfielders and full backs absolutely skying chances all evening.

Fair play to the chap for backing himself to take on a difficult shot and actually make a good fist of it on two occasions.

That attitude will stand to him in the long run.
 
Bastian said:
That's completely different to saying he should not have taken on that shot. I don't see anyone going off the rails here about him, comparing him to Messi. Goal posts have moved it seems.
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It isn't remotely different, I'm balancing out hyperbole and overexcitement, be it about an individual shot off target with better placed teammates or the comparisons made with legends. If only the goal posts had moved, that way all this fuss might be about an actual goal rather than nothing.
 
Still don't understand why Amorim never gave him minutes. Was he trying to make a statement choosing Mantato ahead of Lacey?
 
SmashedHombre said:
Still don't understand why Amorim never gave him minutes. Was he trying to make a statement choosing Mantato ahead of Lacey?
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Mantato has a bit more pace and is a good prospect in his own right (notwithstanding that he seems shy and lacking in belief at senior level).

There may also be an aspect of protection since Lacey has had injury setbacks in his early career.

Could also be a control issue since people were demanding Lacey play more and Amorim seems like that kind of guy
 
Does Xg take into account the skill of the player or is it just an average of every player's likelihood of scoring?

Having watched Lacey score great goals and deliver great crosses for the youth teams he seems to have a greater likelihood of scoring than, say, Manuel Ugarte or Terry down the pub.

Then we come to free kicks from outside the area. Should shots on goal be banned from these now? Would James Ward-Prowse have had a career?
 
Mingus said:
Does Xg take into account the skill of the player or is it just an average of every player's likelihood of scoring?

Having watched Lacey score great goals and deliver great crosses for the youth teams he seems to have a greater likelihood of scoring than, say, Manuel Ugarte or Terry down the pub.

Then we come to free kicks from outside the area. Should these be banned from now on? Would James Ward-Prowse have had a career?
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This
 
Mingus said:
Does Xg take into account the skill of the player or is it just an average of every player's likelihood of scoring?

Having watched Lacey score great goals and deliver great crosses for the youth teams he seems to have a greater likelihood of scoring than, say, Manuel Ugarte or Terry down the pub.

Then we come to free kicks from outside the area. Should shots on goal be banned from these now? Would James Ward-Prowse have had a career?
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Good point.

The xG for a penalty, I believe, is 0.79. Whereas there are takers like Cole Palmer with a circa 95% conversion rate.

Would xG rate a Cole Palmer penalty the same as that of a far inferior taker?
 
gaffs said:
Good point.

The xG for a penalty, I believe, is 0.79. Whereas there are takers like Cole Palmer with a circa 95% conversion rate.

Would xG rate a Cole Palmer penalty the same as that of a far inferior taker?
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Yes. It's just expected probability of a goal being scored. Clinical players will generally outscore xG. However, for shots outside the box or from tight angle it is likely that only players who feel comfortable are taking that shot. So a large majority will be coming from players who have that in their arsenal so xg will be more reflective of the skill of the attacker to some extent.
 
Gambitx23 said:
Yes. It's just expected probability of a goal being scored. Clinical players will generally outscore xG. However, for shots outside the box or from tight angle it is likely that only players who feel comfortable are taking that shot. So a large majority will be coming from players who have that in their arsenal so xg will be more reflective of the skill of the attacker to some extent.
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We see crappy, low percentage, shots from players like Dalot all the time. Some of those should have a negative xG.

Point is, I don't think xG is taking into account the quality of the player taking the chance. Regardless of the type of shot.
 
gaffs said:
We see crappy, low percentage, shots from players like Dalot all the time. Some of those should have a negative xG.

Point is, I don't think xG is taking into account the quality of the player taking the chance. Regardless of the type of shot.
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It shouldn't
 
Mingus said:
Does Xg take into account the skill of the player or is it just an average of every player's likelihood of scoring?

Having watched Lacey score great goals and deliver great crosses for the youth teams he seems to have a greater likelihood of scoring than, say, Manuel Ugarte or Terry down the pub.

Then we come to free kicks from outside the area. Should shots on goal be banned from these now? Would James Ward-Prowse have had a career?
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The original claim for the first shot being wasteful was complete nonsense anyway. Dalot’s decoy run away from goal whilst being tracked by a defender was in no way a more viable route to a goal than a shot on a stronger foot from the very edge of the box where there was space to get a clean shot off. He might have been able to slide Sesko in, but he was also being tracked and it wasn’t a high percentage opening.

It’s just someone clutching at straws to denigrate a young player because that same poster had previously rubbished the idea of Amorim using Lacey as a sub when trying to desperately to defend him.
 
Zumbi said:
The original claim for the first shot being wasteful was complete nonsense anyway. Dalot’s decoy run away from goal whilst being tracked by a defender was in no way a more viable route to a goal than a shot on a stronger foot from the very edge of the box where there was space to get a clean shot off. He might have been able to slide Sesko in, but he was also being tracked and it wasn’t a high percentage opening.

It’s just someone clutching at straws to denigrate a young player because that same poster had previously rubbished the idea of Amorim using Lacey as a sub when trying to desperately to defend him.
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Nail. On. Head.

It is rather pathetic.
 
There are some astonishing comments on here about a player who came on, showed desire, and was unlucky not to score a wonder goal on his debut.
JFC if that’s not something to enjoy then I don’t know what is.
 
GBBQ said:
People giving out about Lacey’s shot like we hadn’t seen our midfielders and full backs absolutely skying chances all evening.

Fair play to the chap for backing himself to take on a difficult shot and actually make a good fist of it on two occasions.

That attitude will stand to him in the long run.
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Agree, hit the bar, one just bent away....both cracking shots unlike others preceeding him. Bar those occasions he simply took the ball and laid it off....so people talking about getting his head up need to get theres out of there backsides, utter nonsense, should be nothing but praise for hi cameo
 
Imagine being a young excited 18 year old making your second senior appearance for United and, like a lot would, google the net about what's being said about you.

Some shocking posts on here about one of our most promising players.

Had that goal gone in it would have been all about the new Rooney etc when he scored for Everton on his debut or the debut hattrick

Wish the boy the very best and looking forward to seeing him in a United shirt again soon
 
Looks the real deal.
 
Kid impressed me with the limited time he was on the pitch. Two decent attempts at goal.
We look a better team and more likely to score when we moved the ball quicker and put the cross in sooner than later.

Often times, I feel we move the ball left to right decently but get too complacent and dont put crosses in when we should.
Hopefully he will get a bit more time this weekend, so we can see what he is all about.
 
The Hilton said:
This shouldn't be all that controversial, I'm willing to bed there's been times watching United where a player has taken a shot where you think they should have played the ball to a better placed teammate.
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Absolutely, and frequently, but I accept that there is no way for me to know and to claim that one decision is right and the other wrong. It's an opinion, not math.
 
Godfather said:
How has he been for the youth teams? Always been an outstanding talent? Was surprised at how good and confident he looked yesterday
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I haven’t kept up that well with our youth teams in recent years compared to how much I used to watch, but I still watch a little bit and he’s been one of my favourites to watch in recent times.

I said it recently, and I’ve seen others mention this as well, but the way he moves with the ball reminds me of Foden. Before I get accused of overrating him I’m not saying he we will end up anywhere near as good. Who knows. It’s just, his body is so open when dribbling, which allows him to pull off quick turns and makes it so hard for opponents to get the ball off of him without committing a foul. His technique goes without saying when you see him.
 
Gums said:
Absolutely, and frequently, but I accept that there is no way for me to know and to claim that one decision is right and the other wrong. It's an opinion, not math.
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It can be an informed opinion though. The xG of the shot isn't a perfect measurement, but it gives us a fairly good idea of how likely it is to result in a goal on average in the Premier League, which is not very. While we don't know mathematically what the likelihood of Sesko scoring would have been, there was a clear path for the pass to him, and Sesko had a clear view of goal near the penalty spot. It's undoubtedly a better goalscoring position, requiring a fairly simple pass.

Mingus said:
Does Xg take into account the skill of the player or is it just an average of every player's likelihood of scoring?

Having watched Lacey score great goals and deliver great crosses for the youth teams he seems to have a greater likelihood of scoring than, say, Manuel Ugarte or Terry down the pub.

Then we come to free kicks from outside the area. Should shots on goal be banned from these now? Would James Ward-Prowse have had a career?
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It depends on the xG model, but it's most likely that this chance is compared to the Premier League average. Given the positioning, and that it's a left footed shot, it's likely that the majority of shots used for compared to are left footed wingers/forwards. So even if we assume that Shea Lacey is 3 times as likely to score that shot as the average PL winger, which is an extremely generous assumption given the level he's played his entire career at so far, and his total of 7 goals in the past 3 years at youth level, the shot still has less than a 1 in 10 chance of being a goal.
 
I want Lacey to score that banger!!

Imagine the limbs if that had gone in.... Can't wait to see more of the lad... Let's hope injuries stay as far as possible
 
We suddenly have 3-4 credible players for the wide right and #10 slots and no left wingers. He definitely looks more of a #10.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
We suddenly have 3-4 credible players for the wide right and #10 slots and no left wingers. He definitely looks more of a #10.
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It's actually refreshing after spending, what, 15 years trying to replace Ronaldo on the right wing but having multiple great candidates on the left. Daniel James, Sancho who then played a lot on the left, Antony who was.. Antony, Obertan, Greenwood.

Now, it's the other way around! Why didn't Giggs succeed with his brothers wife to add to the Fletcher/Rooney-child group who will be in our squad the next couple of years..
 
United need a few kids to plug the holes in the squad.

Lacy did enough last game to get another 15-20 mins at the weekend.

Potential for the match to go all the way to penalties, so hopefully he gets onto the pitch at some stage.
 
Drainy said:
Currently more of an Amad. Better wide coming in or dribbling to the byline and cutting back / finishing from there

Not close to a proper 10 at this time.
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I don’t know if he has the close control of Amad but he is physically a lot more combative and I think he can be very aggressive in the press.
 
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