Shea Lacey

WesB said:
Now, it's the other way around! Why didn't Giggs succeed with his brothers wife to add to the Fletcher/Rooney-child group who will be in our squad the next couple of years..
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Giggs’ son is the same age group as the Fletchers and came through our academy. He was released a couple of years ago. He is with Sheffield United now.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
I don’t know if he has the close control of Amad but he is physically a lot more combative and I think he can be very aggressive in the press.
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He is very similar in close control terms to Amad. Difficult to get the ball off, fast feet, and 'la pausa" ability.

He's a good crosser of the ball with either foot too and can spot a pass. He could probably play on the left successfully as well as centrally as a 10.
 
goldenboy said:
His best attribute is cutting inside on to his left-foot and shooting, and he doesn't really have the blistering pace to beat the full-back round the outside. So no.

@dinostar77 in their infinite "wisdom" will tell you it's all good though...
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Plenty of great wingers over the years who played on their natural wing without having blistering pace.
 
goldenboy said:
His best attribute is cutting inside on to his left-foot and shooting, and he doesn't really have the blistering pace to beat the full-back round the outside. So no.

@dinostar77 in their infinite "wisdom" will tell you it's all good though...
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You could say the same about Foden or Mata but they had plenty of good performances on the left with the right system / players around them. I'm sure he's better in the right but I doubt he's hopeless on the other wing.
 
Scored 6 goals in 3 games since his cameo/sending off. You've gotta love that mentality! Could be forgiven for sulking a little and feeling hard done by, but instead he's using it as fuel to kick on.
 
U23s is such a poor level, he's ready to play senior games somewhere. I hope he gets his chance here off the bench for the rest of the season but out on loan if he's not fully challenging for the first team by next season. He's a very nice profile for a backup for the rest of this season. He was so unlucky to not score against Burnley, the conversation around him would be quite different if that had gone in.
 
goldenboy said:
His best attribute is cutting inside on to his left-foot and shooting, and he doesn't really have the blistering pace to beat the full-back round the outside. So no.

@dinostar77 in their infinite "wisdom" will tell you it's all good though...
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This is utter garbage. Great wide players do not necessarily have 'blistering pace' from John Robertson, to Chris Waddle... to David Beckham (remember him...?), Riyadh Mahrez... all fabulous footballers. Three of them are outstanding examples of players, playing on the pitch aligned to their strongest foot.

This 'cut inside and shoot' is a predictable, one-dimensional, off-the-shelf, representation of football. It's boring and lacks variety or imagination.

Shea Lacey should play some games from the left. Amad too. It would do them no harm at all, and develops their game.
 
Should get plenty of opportunities next year, provided we get European football. Difficult for now with this schedule.
 
The swiss window is open for another two weeks, we have enough options in attack, i think we could send him laussane and keep kone here. Although lacey has been managed extremely carefully and maybe club wiould rather keep him training with first team here, than send him on loan, considering old issues.
 
Jeffthered said:
This is utter garbage. Great wide players do not necessarily have 'blistering pace' from John Robertson, to Chris Waddle... to David Beckham (remember him...?), Riyadh Mahrez... all fabulous footballers. Three of them are outstanding examples of players, playing on the pitch aligned to their strongest foot.
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The most recent of those was finished at the highest level near enough 20 years ago now. The days of wingers primarily standing on the touchline whipping balls in to the big man is pretty much dead - that width is provided nowadays by full-backs being expected to cover more ground and get up the pitch on the overlap.

Citing Mahrez as an example is hilarious because his big thing was being a right-winger who would cut inside to shoot on his strongest left-foot..

Jeffthered said:
This 'cut inside and shoot' is a predictable, one-dimensional, off-the-shelf, representation of football. It's boring and lacks variety or imagination.
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This 'stand on the touchline and whip it in to the big man' is a predictable, one-dimensional, off-the-shelf, representation of football. It's boring and lacks variety or imagination...

Jeffthered said:
Shea Lacey should play some games from the left. Amad too. It would do them no harm at all, and develops their game.
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Sure, because the best players in their position in the world of late, e.g. Messi and Salah, needed help developing their game by being shoved out to the left-wing... oh wait - that never happened! Because it's daft.
 
He should now be permanently part of the first team squad and back up to Amad.
 
Maradona10 said:
The swiss window is open for another two weeks, we have enough options in attack, i think we could send him laussane and keep kone here. Although lacey has been managed extremely carefully and maybe club wiould rather keep him training with first team here, than send him on loan, considering old issues.
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I think we need to give him some minutes this season & a slightly bigger role next season - I wouldn't send him to Lausanne. Hopefully, we'll have more games next season and need a capable squad.

As I mentioned in another thread, between Amad, Mbuemo, Cunha & hopefully Lacey, we have both wings covered, with Dorgu as backup LW/starting LB.
 
goldenboy said:
The most recent of those was finished at the highest level near enough 20 years ago now. The days of wingers primarily standing on the touchline whipping balls in to the big man is pretty much dead - that width is provided nowadays by full-backs being expected to cover more ground and get up the pitch on the overlap.

Citing Mahrez as an example is hilarious because his big thing was being a right-winger who would cut inside to shoot on his strongest left-foot..



This 'stand on the touchline and whip it in to the big man' is a predictable, one-dimensional, off-the-shelf, representation of football. It's boring and lacks variety or imagination...



Sure, because the best players in their position in the world of late, e.g. Messi and Salah, needed help developing their game by being shoved out to the left-wing... oh wait - that never happened! Because it's daft.
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I'm not sure where to start. And you ignore, completely, the premise of my statement, that being that Lacey and Amad playing some games from the left would develop and add variety to their game. Do you disagree?

You mentioned the need for wide players to have 'blistering pace'. I quoted Mahrez as an example of a wide player who did not have much pace at all.

Full backs supporting their teams attack is nothing new. A good full back will invariably create chances throughout their career. They should. This will continue. Look at Matty Cash at Villa.

To suggest that a type of football is 'dead' is entirely subjective. Look at Dorgu for us. Clearly, clearly benefitting from playing his natural left side. If you think this is coincidental that's up to you. Long throws and set-piece teams were 'dead' a few seasons ago. Remember Tony Pullis at Stoke?

If you watched Chris Waddle and David Beckham and think all they did was 'whip it in to the big man..' then, again, I say these are your observations, and I personally think that they are way off. Way off.
 
Jeffthered said:
This is utter garbage. Great wide players do not necessarily have 'blistering pace' from John Robertson, to Chris Waddle... to David Beckham (remember him...?), Riyadh Mahrez... all fabulous footballers. Three of them are outstanding examples of players, playing on the pitch aligned to their strongest foot.

This 'cut inside and shoot' is a predictable, one-dimensional, off-the-shelf, representation of football. It's boring and lacks variety or imagination.

Shea Lacey should play some games from the left. Amad too. It would do them no harm at all, and develops their game.
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Well said.

Also as we have seen this season, teams are going more vertical even Guardiola's City in order to bypass the press. Therefore attacking faster and more direct. Having a winger play on his natural side ie. not inverted means he can play the ball quicker and easier to the striker.

For example, Bruno setting up Sesko for the winner against Fulham. Whipped in on his natural foot i.e. right from the right wing. If Bruno had been on the left wing when he had crossed that ball, he probably would have had to take a extra touch and that would have given the Fulham CB more time to get into position.

I do think as direct vertical football makes more of a comeback we will see a winger deployed on both flanks. Giving the manager more tactical options. That will only help the education and tactical awareness of the winger and help make him a better player.
 
Jeffthered said:
I'm not sure where to start. And you ignore, completely, the premise of my statement, that being that Lacey and Amad playing some games from the left would develop and add variety to their game. Do you disagree?
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I did not "ignore completely" the premise of your statement. You failed to process and comprehend my answer.

I stated that the best recent players in the world in Amad and Lacey's same preferred role - e.g. Messi and Salah - did not require playing any games from the left in order to develop in to the best players in the world their role. Given that, there is nothing to indicate it would pose any advantage. When you are demonstrably able to become the best in the world without it, clearly it is not necessary.

Jeffthered said:
You mentioned the need for wide players to have 'blistering pace'. I quoted Mahrez as an example of a wide player who did not have much pace at all.
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I mentioned the need for wide players to have 'blistering pace' if they are to play on the same side as their preferred foot nowadays. Mahrez did not play on the same side as his preferred foot...

Jeffthered said:
To suggest that a type of football is 'dead' is entirely subjective. Look at Dorgu for us. Clearly, clearly benefitting from playing his natural left side. If you think this is coincidental that's up to you
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Firstly, it was just two games. Secondly, Dorgu has the pace and power to have some effectiveness playing on the same side as his preferred foot. The only other winger at United in recent history who was as effective on the side of their favoured foot as on the opposite flank was Dan James - and guess why...

Diallo and Lacey do not have the same degree of pace and/or power to get round the full-back on the outside as Dorgu and James. Their subsequent effectiveness would be limited.

Jeffthered said:
Long throws and set-piece teams were 'dead' a few seasons ago. Remember Tony Pullis at Stoke?
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Set-pieces are a completely different thing. The book 'How To Win the Premier League' by Ian Graham actually has some data analysis on this. Balls in to the box from set-pieces benefit from being able to get all the team up in to the box for them. In general from open play crosses from wide on to your team-mate's head are statistically one of the least effective methods of scoring a goal.
 
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Jeffthered said:
This is utter garbage. Great wide players do not necessarily have 'blistering pace' from John Robertson, to Chris Waddle... to David Beckham (remember him...?), Riyadh Mahrez... all fabulous footballers. Three of them are outstanding examples of players, playing on the pitch aligned to their strongest foot.

This 'cut inside and shoot' is a predictable, one-dimensional, off-the-shelf, representation of football. It's boring and lacks variety or imagination.

Shea Lacey should play some games from the left. Amad too. It would do them no harm at all, and develops their game.
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Which 3 were they?

Out of the players you mentioned only David Beckham played on the side aligned to his favoured foot
Robertson was right footed but played on the left
Waddle could play on either wing and was equally effective
Mahrez was left footed but played on the right.

Where do you get your info from?
 
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Is a huge talent, one of our biggest talents in recent years. Injuries have hampered his development, and he isn't as physically gifted as Mainoo or much more a Greenwood but in terms of natural talent he might be more talented than both. He was actually a wonderkid, similar to the likes of Dowman.

Would be nice if he was a bit faster or even more two-footed but he really has the tools and talent to become a Man United player and maybe even a starter.
 
AjaxCunian said:
he isn't as physically gifted as Mainoo or much more a Greenwood but in terms of natural talent he might be more talented than both. He was actually a wonderkid, similar to the likes of Dowman
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This is also odd, because Mainoo has never been particularly physically gifted - he's always been more technically gifted. Lack of pace was even an issue for him at times in the youth teams. Greenwood was considered very much a wonderkid when coming through - he was frequently scoring top quality goals and had more hype around him than Lacey.
 
goldenboy said:
This is also odd, because Mainoo has never been particularly physically gifted - he's always been more technically gifted. Lack of pace was even an issue for him at times in the youth teams. Greenwood was considered very much a wonderkid when coming through - he was frequently scoring top quality goals and had more hype around him than Lacey.
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Mainoo is very physically gifted, he isn't blessed with acceleration and top speed but is agile, around 6 foot, and is built like a brick. This helps you to play with men that are grown. It goes under the radar but he wins a lot of duels, as he is way stronger than most players.

Not denying Greenwood isn't a wonderkid, but it helps in terms of hype if you are a forward and also if you can stay fit. Lacey has been injured in basically every season, he never has the number of matches to rack up a decent amount of stats. He's more of a midfielder than Greenwood is as well, with far much more of an all-round game.
 
Ive definitely been impressed with how he handled his time on the pitch so far. For a slight player the fear is that their game changes and they can’t replicate what made them special as a young player. With Shea that doesn’t appear the be the case.

For me he has the ability to play all the forward positions depending on the personnel around him as he can be effective in different areas of the pitch and can dribble pass and shoot.

Just hope he can stay fit and we give him a consistent platform team and time wise to progress. Both these issues have hampered some of our recent products for different reasons.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Is a huge talent, one of our biggest talents in recent years. Injuries have hampered his development, and he isn't as physically gifted as Mainoo or much more a Greenwood but in terms of natural talent he might be more talented than both. He was actually a wonderkid, similar to the likes of Dowman.

Would be nice if he was a bit faster or even more two-footed but he really has the tools and talent to become a Man United player and maybe even a starter.
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His right foot doesn't seem useless. I believe he has scope to develop it more to compensate for lack of pure typical winger pace
 
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goldenboy said:
The most recent of those was finished at the highest level near enough 20 years ago now. The days of wingers primarily standing on the touchline whipping balls in to the big man is pretty much dead - .....
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More like under utlised for no good reason. Just last season Barca used Raphinha on his natural side and he proved far more devastating there even in terms of goals than he ever did for years as an inside out flanker on the right flank. Bayern used Thomas Mueller on his natural side for some years and it worked a treat for them too
 
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goldenboy said:
This is also odd, because Mainoo has never been particularly physically gifted - he's always been more technically gifted. Lack of pace was even an issue for him at times in the youth teams. Greenwood was considered very much a wonderkid when coming through - he was frequently scoring top quality goals and had more hype around him than Lacey.
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Mainoo has fully grown players in their prime bouncing off him when they try to tackle him and hes using his body to shield the ball. Only Baleba perhaps is stronger than him. Strength is just as much an atheltic trait as pace and far more important for his position. Thats why Mainoo is a physical player as well as a technical one - a bit like Pogba was. He wasnt that fast either
 
Ekeke said:
Strength is just as much an atheltic trait as pace and far more important for his position
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There is nothing to show that strength is "far more important" for a box-to-box central midfielder than pace...

Even if Mainoo had above average strength in youth teams, he also always had below average pace in the youth teams - if he's above average in one key physical attribute, but below average in another, then he's maybe about average. But today it's constantly pointed out that his lack of pace (i.e. athleticism) might hold him back from being a properly elite player. This was also a concern when he was in the youth teams.

Ekeke said:
a bit like Pogba was. He wasnt that fast either
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He covered ground a lot quicker than Mainoo does, that's for sure.
 
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Ekeke said:
Mainoo has fully grown players in their prime bouncing off him when they try to tackle him and hes using his body to shield the ball. Only Baleba perhaps is stronger than him. Strength is just as much an atheltic trait as pace and far more important for his position. Thats why Mainoo is a physical player as well as a technical one - a bit like Pogba was. He wasnt that fast either
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Young Pogba on the ball had a good starting acceleration where he could get past multiple players. He lost that explosiveness late 20’s slowly declining whether to injuries or something.

Our last wonderkid was Greenwood.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Can he play wide left?
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If you look at his recent U21's highlights he has scored and assisted from the left so I'd say yes and he has been tested there.
Extreme pace in a winger is great if you're looking to play on the counter but the ability to run at pace with the ball and be able to throw opponents off balance and be creative is handy against a low block and Lacey is similar to Amad in that respect.
 
Mingus said:
If you look at his recent U21's highlights he has scored and assisted from the left so I'd say yes and he has been tested there.
Extreme pace in a winger is great if you're looking to play on the counter but the ability to run at pace with the ball and be able to throw opponents off balance and be creative is handy against a low block and Lacey is similar to Amad in that respect.
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Honestly I'd prefer it if we developed him wide left rather than buy a left winger next summer.
 
goldenboy said:
There is nothing to show that strength is "far more important" for a box-to-box central midfielder than pace...

Even if Mainoo had above average strength in youth teams, he also always had below average pace in the youth teams - if he's above average in one key physical attribute, but below average in another, then he's maybe about average. But today it's constantly pointed out that his lack of pace (i.e. athleticism) might hold him back from being a properly elite player. This was also a concern when he was in the youth teams.



He covered ground a lot quicker than Mainoo does, that's for sure.
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Who was the pace merchant, Keane, Scholes or Carrick?

Strength is far more important because it helps you keep the ball which is a core tenant of playing in central midfield. Pace runs into many players around you with you in the middle and them outside. Positioning yourself correctly means you dont need it.
 
Ekeke said:
Who was the pace merchant, Keane, Scholes or Carrick?

Strength is far more important because it helps you keep the ball which is a core tenant of playing in central midfield. Pace runs into many players around you with you in the middle and them outside. Positioning yourself correctly means you dont need it.
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Positioning yourself well also means you don't need strength - eg Modric.

With pace you can also run away from the players around you...

But you're also talking principally on how it effects on-the-ball play. The biggest physical drawback with Mainoo has always been how his lack of pace impacts his ability to close down opponents to make tackles, and also to track back. Also, however well you position yourself to receive a pass, if you're a yard slower than your opponent then they will get to the ball before you in the events of loose passes or 50-50 balls.

Carrick and Scholes were great on the ball, but not so great as ball winners. Roy Keane was the best ball winner out of them and he also the quickest of them; he was no slouch btw. Even though he wasn't an out-and-out pace merchant, he was far from a near slug like Mainoo and could make bursting recovery runs and tackles on the likes of Vieira. He had a big engine on him enabling him to cover a lot of ground to collect the ball. Mainoo lacks that running engine.

 
Has a calf injury and will be out for two three weeks
 
Hope he can stay clear of injuries next season as will have a part to play with so many games and needs to develop his talent more now in the mens game
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
I stumbled across this in the Baleba thread and was confused. Is he really that slow?
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No he is not. He doesnt have jet heeled blistering pace. But he's got.decent pace for a wide player. It's more important that he has the intelligence and mentality to improve, than being a one trick pony pace merchant.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
I stumbled across this in the Baleba thread and was confused. Is he really that slow?
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He is a more skill based winger than a pure pace winger . There is more than one way to be effective, if he uses his talent to the max, he will have a great career .
He is not slow, he he has great accelartion over a short burst, thats all you need to be effective, if you can use it well.
 
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