If it was actually about the comics then maybe, but if it wasn't the comics, it'd be something else. These sort of people just used it as an excuse to pick a target. If it wasn't the magazine, it'd be a shopping mall, a school etc.
Shooting at Charlie Hebdo HQ in Paris
- Thread starter rednev
- Start date
If it was actually about the comics then maybe, but if it wasn't the comics, it'd be something else. These sort of people just used it as an excuse to pick a target. If it wasn't the magazine, it'd be a shopping mall, a school etc.
Yeah, let's just shoot up civilians when they print something our religion didn't agree with.
Bloody people with their agendas.
Absolutely horrific and making a mockery of freedom of speech. You can see why there is a major right wing uprising throughout Europe.
One day there will be a major blacklash on Muslims and I will feel sorry for the majority who are innocent decent people.
One day there will be a major blacklash on Muslims and I will feel sorry for the majority who are innocent decent people.
I am
For me personally If I was doing something that was potentially going to endanger my life. I would stop doing it.
Maybe thats just me
No idea/religion should be immune from critique or satire. I've felt the criticism of Muslims (as a whole) veers into dangerous hyperbole and is exploited by the far right. But I defend their right to say it and would argue against what I feel is wrong, through dialogue. Absolutely horrific.
I still don't know where I stand on this. Freedom of speech is important but is it that important?
If you know saying something - especially with the intention to offend - would result in people dying, should you still say it? I remember @Plechazunga articulating this better on here a long time ago.
If you know saying something - especially with the intention to offend - would result in people dying, should you still say it? I remember @Plechazunga articulating this better on here a long time ago.
I hope so.
I'll just leave this here:
Please tell me you aren't serious.
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Nobody has an obligation to offend. There are ways to make your points about a religion without cartoons. But they absolutely should have the right to do so without fearing lethal retribution. And that should be non-negotiable.
This is what I was trying to say basically
I'm really not liking the volume of situations where people are taking things into their own hands.
It's definitely appears to be a more cultural issue than religious issue, but that's a tough point to get across at times.
Well at least I've managed to grow up knowing not a pull a trigger or detonate a bomb when someone says/does something I don't particularly agree with.
It's definitely appears to be a more cultural issue than religious issue, but that's a tough point to get across at times.
Well at least I've managed to grow up knowing not a pull a trigger or detonate a bomb when someone says/does something I don't particularly agree with.
Talking of Anders Brevik, I really hope this is an isolated incident and they're not distracting the police as they target something bigger.
Would you if someone had a gun against your head, and asked you not to draw a cartoon obey or not
You are far braver than me if thats the case
The backlash has started in Germany and with the way I see things headed the current wave of islamophobia will spread.
Multiculturalism has to work in both directions.
That is a big issue that i am seeing.
Some fringes are just not capable of assimilating fully into another culture.
That is a big issue that i am seeing.
Some fringes are just not capable of assimilating fully into another culture.
That's a completely different scenario. That's not "potentially endangering" my life, that is a question of life or death.
This is all a bit shit.
BBC
I take comfort in known that a significant number of people are like you. As opposed to the echo chamber of the internet, youtube comments, far right groups. In Europe it's difficult to say but the UK where my family are, it is very tolerant so hopefully it should be ok. I think it's fairly easy to oppose this attack and not be islamophobic. Sad that many have veered into islamophobia.
I am saddened and shocked at this, but also scared by things like the Pegida marches. Scary times for Muslims in Europe.
But then such fuel has been been falling drip by drip for a little while now. There were the shootings in Toulouse a couple of years previously; the attack on the Jewish centre in Brussels resulted in an arrest in France; and IIRC vehicles being used as weapons just prior to Christmas-New Year.
And when one considers the proportion of Europeans fighting for Islamic State, both France and the UK appear to be a particularly fertile ground for their number. Few of us would be surprised were those responsible for these killings found to be of Western origin.
seeing as this office was firebombed a few years ago, I cant say this wasnt far off a life or death situation.
I will leave it as this. I would much prefer to see a headline that this company has decided to close its doors than 12 people massacred
That is what saddens me.
I definitely agree that there are many innocent people who have done nothing wrong, people who are irrational and target the people who didn't do a single thing wrong. I hope nothing like that happens.
It is a potentially scary time in Europe for Muslims as people will be upset about this latest attack.
However it hasn't come COMPLETELY from nothing, some would say it's a scary time for Europeans in Europe as well due to these attacks that are taking place and threats of further attacks by Islam too.
There isn't much you can do without compromising basic human rights to an extent. Not gonna happen. You're fecked.
Obviously, the human cost is by far the most important issue here but the timing of this is horrendous, from an economic perspective.
With Greece in the shit again and the eurozone tipping into deflation today the last thing the EC needed was such a massive boost to the electoral prospects of the far right in France.
With Greece in the shit again and the eurozone tipping into deflation today the last thing the EC needed was such a massive boost to the electoral prospects of the far right in France.
The sad thing is that whilst Charb et al may have poked fun at radical Islam they were equal opportunity piss takers who targeted all religion that took itself too seriously and spent much of it's time targeting the far right and institutionalized Western bigotry that would love nothing more than to clamp down on the same idiots who have carried out this atrocity. Without the likes of Charb and other left wing opposition the likes of Le Pen would have had France happily supporting Blair and Bush when they first waded into this hornets net kicking contest.
If those whose keenest weapons are satire and a pen choose to remain silent for fear of offending an over sensitive lunatic minority then maybe it's time to let the pitbulls of the right wing off their leashes and see if throwing more fuel on the fire helps put it out.
If those whose keenest weapons are satire and a pen choose to remain silent for fear of offending an over sensitive lunatic minority then maybe it's time to let the pitbulls of the right wing off their leashes and see if throwing more fuel on the fire helps put it out.
What you're saying is that Charlie Hebdo have (at least partly) themselves to blame, when all they did was draw cartoons. Place the blame exclusively where it belongs instead of making excuses for violent fanatics.
Yep, and more than these criminal cases, there's also a very hostile environment with the extreme right wing party in France (which you could argue is also a result of the climate as much as its cause), it's just all very disturbing at the moment.
And the two guys spoke perfect fluent French according to the first reports.
This is far more a freedom of speech issue than one of religion.
Frances attitude to Islam as been very confrontational.
No matter how many times you exaggerate occurances that you perceive to be often because you read about them multiple times, doesn't mean that it comes close to representing a figure of over a billion people.
I'm actually quite curious about the prevalence of Muslims living in Europe (or elsewhere) signing up to go fight with the Kurds against ISIS? Is this a common occurrence at all? I feel like would be a pretty important act to take. Radical Islam is spiraling further and further out of control and it is a bit of a clash of culture within Islam at this point, but only one side seems to be fighting for what they believe in?
I wouldn't say FAR more.
As the very attack was based on a Religious ,how should I say, Indiscretion.
However it is equally as much a freedom of speech issue as obviously the issues of our freedom of speech and freedom of the press issues come into it etc
Charb et al, I didn't always agree with them or Charlie Hebdo, but overall they were great and so, so important for freedom of speach in France. It's a tragedy in so many ways.The sad thing is that whilst Charb et al may have poked fun at radical Islam they were equal opportunity piss takers who targeted all religion that took itself too seriously and spent much of it's time targeting the far right and institutionalized Western bigotry that would love nothing more than to clamp down on the same idiots who have carried out this atrocity. Without the likes of Charb and other left wing opposition the likes of Le Pen would have had France happily supporting Blair and Bush when they first waded into this hornets net kicking contest.
If those whose keenest weapons are satire and a pen choose to remain silent for fear of offending an over sensitive lunatic minority then maybe it's time to let the pitbulls of the right wing off their leashes and see if throwing more fuel on the fire helps put it out.
Absolutely. The mindset of many with regards to blasphemy has to change. Freedom of speech is more important than your feelings. Finding and eliminating these groups (whether they are lone wolfs or networks of jihadis) is more important than anything.
Whether it represents over a Billion people or not is irrelevant, it doesn't take over 1 billion people to cause damage.
I know I posted this before but I think it needs to be seen.
They needn't be mutually exclusive.
I wouldn't say those attacking have much to do with an entire religion. They're more akin to terrorists than a vast majority of believers.