Should the women's game have smaller stuff in it?

OleBoiii

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I think Blatter started looking into exactly this and his first suggestion was smaller shorts.
First thing I thought of when I saw the title :lol:
 

Devil81

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P-Nut

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Ive coached a lot of girls and womens teams over the years and these threads pop up from time to time. The big problem is its men talking about what they think women should do. Its their version of the game. Men watch the womans game expecting it to be just like the mens game and when it isnt they want to change it. In all my years coaching I have never heard any of the girls or women I coached ask for any changes, they are happy playing it the way it is.
Bottom line, stop putting male expectations of the game onto the womans game. Let them have their version of the game, if you dont like it dont watch. If you can get your head around the fact it looks and plays differently then you have a chance of enjoying it for what it is.
This attitude is a reason why the sport isn't growing as quickly as a lot would like though.

You've got someone that tuned in to watch a game last night and didn't enjoy it, he puts a respectable thread up about potential changes to make it more enjoyable to the casual fan, which is what the sport is trying to attract and grow its audience within, but instead of engaging on the matter and having a discussion, you respond with the bullshit that he's got no right to an opinion due to being male. That's the same bullshit mindset that says women shouldn't commentate on men's football as its a different game.
 

Raees

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Whilst some of these changes could be implemented in the professional game - would be an absolute nightmare trying to implement this throughout the grassroots system. Girls find it hard enough to be given opportunity and funding to participate and then imagine having to set up specific facilities just for them. Never going to happen.

Overall think it’s a great idea but just not feasible.
 

Stack

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This attitude is a reason why the sport isn't growing as quickly as a lot would like though.

You've got someone that tuned in to watch a game last night and didn't enjoy it, he puts a respectable thread up about potential changes to make it more enjoyable to the casual fan, which is what the sport is trying to attract and grow its audience within, but instead of engaging on the matter and having a discussion, you respond with the bullshit that he's got no right to an opinion due to being male. That's the same bullshit mindset that says women shouldn't commentate on men's football as its a different game.
FFS. Its a completely different issue to women commentators.

The game is growing very quickly so dont try and spin that bullshit about it not growing as quickly as a lot would like. Seriously??
 

Skills

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I agree but you can't make the grounds smaller - the goal posts is a possibility and so is the length of each half.
You can just use the same grounds with the lines drawn for a smaller pitch?

The change actually wouldn't be that drastic - 10% is on average the difference between men and women in terms of sprint speed. You'd just have to make the pitch smaller by 10% - whether they want to maintain the same ratio, would also be worth trialing.

On the other - the length of the game should stay the same. I believe various studies show there is almost neglible difference between the stamina of men and women (I think over extremely long distances women might edge it). But it's the power and speed where the biggest differences are.
 

duffer

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Hahaha. If you see my tagline (that i never asked for) you will get an idea I have gotten shit in here in the past for defending the womans version of the game. The big thing so many cant get their head around is that it looks different, its played at a different pace, its relatively new in its current iteration and it is for women to push for changes, not men.
I'd imagine more than half the posters in here have never played a competitive game of football in their lives but still have options on the men's game.

Of course the women in woman's football should be the driving force behind any changes in the women's game but I can have an opinion on it, just as I do the men's or kids game. This is a forum to discuss football.

Women can talk about men's football and men can talk about women's football.

Nobody here is looking to "push changes", it's just a conversation on a football forum.
 

SER19

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She would say that wouldn't she.

But as someone who's watched a fair few women's matches it's clear as day the goals and the pitch are a huge issue. I don't actually understand why women wouldn't want changes that would improve their game to be made, I've seen keepers struggle to reach the centre circle with kick outs.
Despite finding him far too defensive i accept where @Stacks is coming from. He seems to be saying that if majority of women are happy to accept that there will be more goals due to height discrepancy between keepers then it should just be accepted as part of the game that's different. I disagree that a man querying this is inherently ignorant or worse.

Personally, i think women's football standard has clearly improved from the little I watch and it will continue to. The officiating and goalkeeping is not up to scratch though, not in comparison to the mens game, but simply for the women on the pitch. In my opinion it makes the game appear to be of a far poorer standard than it probably is overall
 

Bubz27

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Its mostly men who bring this up.
For some reason men dont seem to be able to comprehend that the womens game is a version thats theirs.
Yeah, men shouldn't be coaching women's football, it's their game. And don't get me started on female referees and pundits in the men's games. That's ours.
 

diarm

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Hurdles, basketball, rugby, tennis.. The list goes on for sports that have slight differences that account for differences between men and women. There is a defensiveness about the conversation that seems to be more prominent when football is involved
Does rugby have any different rules for men and women? I can't think of any.
 

Stack

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Yeah, men shouldn't be coaching women's football, it's their game. And don't get me started on female referees and pundits in the men's games. That's ours.
oh good grief.
So I started coaching girls and women back in 2001. Back then there were very very few female coaches. I ended up getting the better jobs because there was very little competition. The good news is that now I am pushed out of the better jobs by women coaches who have come through the ranks and are better than me. Nothing wrong with men reffing or coaching womens teams or vice versa. There is something wrong however with males wanting to change the female version of the game if the majority of women are happy with how it is.
 

Welbeckham

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Ignoring the execution of it all, smaller pitch (e.g. 90x50 standard) and smaller goals (reduce the height by ~20 cm) would probably improve the tempo and quality of the game.

But it’s probably bit too complicated logistically, not to mention the sexist side of it all, given that it probably won’t be something women themselves wish for. Obviously there are similar differences between men and women’s sport in athletics and volleyball, but those decisions were made at a very different time.
 

Ekkie Thump

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Ive coached a lot of girls and womens teams over the years and these threads pop up from time to time. The big problem is its men talking about what they think women should do. Its their version of the game. Men watch the womans game expecting it to be just like the mens game and when it isnt they want to change it. In all my years coaching I have never heard any of the girls or women I coached ask for any changes, they are happy playing it the way it is.
Bottom line, stop putting male expectations of the game onto the womans game. Let them have their version of the game, if you dont like it dont watch. If you can get your head around the fact it looks and plays differently then you have a chance of enjoying it for what it is.
I guess that's true enough, can't say I'm not guilty of that. Sort of trapped by it basically. I get where you're coming from - most folk involved are happy with it and if I, a man who is uninvolved, happen not to like it I should shut up and feck off. Fair enough. The thing is I can't help but think that if the game had grown independently of men then at least some of the things I mentioned would already be the norm.
 

Bubz27

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oh good grief.
So I started coaching girls and women back in 2001. Back then there were very very few female coaches. I ended up getting the better jobs because there was very little competition. The good news is that now I am pushed out of the better jobs by women coaches who have come through the ranks and are better than me. Nothing wrong with men reffing or coaching womens teams or vice versa. There is something wrong however with males wanting to change the female version of the game if the majority of women are happy with how it is.
I'm afraid neither me or you know the answer to that though, do we. Just because you've coached women's football. I've played boys and men's football for over 20 years. I'd never proclaim to know what the majority of men are happy with or not in the game.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with someone starting a discussion over it. You're coming across very holier than thou about it being "their" game and making it look like it's wrong for someone on redcafe to ask the question.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Its mostly men who bring this up.
For some reason men dont seem to be able to comprehend that the womens game is a version thats theirs.
Tbh you don’t seem open to the idea that the women’s game can change. The debate is needed. If football had stuck to such strict rules we still wouldn’t have the back pass rule change. Things should always be looked at and that’s the same for the men’s game too.
 

WeePat

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The women's game has developed and become better year after year after year.

Watching Barca last night, the speed, the intensity, the pressing, the skill, the technique was all at an extremely high level. I think they should be left alone to continue to develop the game as they've been doing.
 

duffer

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Is "too many goals" an issue with the woman's game? That's what a smaller goal would address, right?

Looking at the last few weeks WSL results they don't seem to be out of whack with the men's game. There's plenty of 0-0s and 1-0s.
 

McGrathsipan

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Women are smaller than blokes. They aren't as fast, aren't as strong and can't generate as much power. Average height for a woman in the UK is 5'3", for a bloke it's 5'9". Plenty of other sports allow for these differences. In women's basketball the ball's smaller and the 3 point line shorter. In golf the holes are shorter in length. In volleyball the net's lower. In athletics the hurdles are smaller, the shot put lighter and the javelin shorter. The list goes on and each of those sports exhibit a higher level of female skill and competence than is currently evident in women's football . Watching the women's Champions League final I was struck particularly by how small the keepers looked in comparison to the goal; but also how slow the game was in transition and how (relatively) cumbersome players were in possession - the ball just looked...big by comparison. In my opinion it's possible the quality of women's football could be vastly improved by relating the size of the equipment to the female body size. I'm thinking smaller pitches, smaller goals and maybe even a slightly smaller ball. I'm not advocating five a side pitches with a futsal ball, I just mean that everything be reduced to the female equivalent. What do you reckon, am I talking bollocks?
I agree with you completely that they are smaller but equality means just that.
If they want to get paid the same as men then they use what the men do.
 

Stack

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Ive mentioned on woman goalkeeper in this thread. Another suggestion is ask Hope Solo what she thinks.
 

Oranges038

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Is "too many goals" an issue with the woman's game? That's what a smaller goal would address, right?

Looking at the last few weeks WSL results they don't seem to be out of whack with the men's game. There's plenty of 0-0s and 1-0s.

Surely the answer is bigger goals then, to give them more of a chance to hit the target.
 

Lynty

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Is "too many goals" an issue with the woman's game? That's what a smaller goal would address, right?

Looking at the last few weeks WSL results they don't seem to be out of whack with the men's game. There's plenty of 0-0s and 1-0s.
Because the pitch is too big. They're out of puff by the time they reach the 18 yard box.
 

TwoSheds

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The goals should be smaller no doubt about it at all. Not knocking the women's game but the main stand out issue is the goalkeeping standard and that's due to kicking power and the size of the goals. Physically women as strong as men so the goals should be made smaller and I do think the pitch could be made smaller as well.

They'd then have to have their own specialist grounds. Could actually be good for their sport if I'm honest.
They wouldn't need special grounds, what's the point making the pitch smaller, women can run just bloody fine. Being 6" shorter than male goalkeepers is definitely an issue though so smaller goals would make sense. It wouldn't be that difficult to implement for (professional) women's football - you'd just have 2 sets of post holes and swap goals out depending on who's playing. Would be good for kids as well being able to switch goals.
 

Skills

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I agree with you completely that they are smaller but equality means just that.
If they want to get paid the same as men then they use what the men do.
Eh? That makes no sense at all. Playing a sport isn't like conquering Everest or something - so it doesn't count if you play with slightly different rules or tools.

The biggest beneficiaries would be spectators not the athletes if the rules got changed. In fact, I can see why current top players would be against introducing a change now. They've already got to the top of their profession with the current rules - the game suits them. Changing it just adds another variable, that might open the field to other players challenging them for their place.
 

Spaghetti

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It shouldn’t be changed. We should just accept that it’s never going to be as good. I watched a game not so long ago and it was awful. But then again it’s a small sample. I’ve watched about 10 Wolves (men’s) games this season and they’ve all been awful.
 

Skills

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They wouldn't need special grounds, what's the point making the pitch smaller, women can run just bloody fine. Being 6" shorter than male goalkeepers is definitely an issue though so smaller goals would make sense. It wouldn't be that difficult to implement for (professional) women's football - you'd just have 2 sets of post holes and swap goals out depending on who's playing. Would be good for kids as well being able to switch goals.
Yes but they are quite obviously slower than men. It means the game doesn't have the same intensity - the men can use their speed and athleticism to get closer to play a lot quicker.

You can recreate that in the women's game by making the pitch smaller so they are already closer to play.
 

Stack

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If the goals were reduced in size then im guessing we would see less goals scored. Will less goals being scored help grow the womens side of the game?
 

Bubz27

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If the goals were reduced in size then im guessing we would see less goals scored. Will less goals being scored help grow the womens side of the game?
Are you saying we should increase the size of men's goals? I like that.
 

Skills

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If the goals were reduced in size then im guessing we would see less goals scored. Will less goals being scored help grow the womens side of the game?
That's a valid point and I think they need to change the men's game itself to encourage more goals (I'm a fan of the Wenger proposal to change the offside rule so the onus is on the defender to play the forward offside).
 

Oranges038

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The answer is in the question. What do women want for their version of the game?
Yeah, that comment was tongue in cheek obviously. I don't know what women want for the women's game.

Reducing the size of the pitch, goals or length of games will only detract from the improvements and the upward trajectory of the women's game.
 

Stack

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It shouldn’t be changed. We should just accept that it’s never going to be as good. I watched a game not so long ago and it was awful. But then again it’s a small sample. I’ve watched about 10 Wolves (men’s) games this season and they’ve all been awful.
This is an important and interesting point.
The game being awful.
I watch local amateur club football, the male version. Compared to the EPL or Champions league etc its bloody awful. However to the fans of these small amateur teams within the context of the league they play in its exciting football.
I dont go along to watch a schoolboy team playing expecting it to be world class football, I dont expect to see local amateur football be world class football. It is what it is within its own context. Expectations are based on what the level is.
The beauty of amateur and school level football is that within those games there are their own individual stories, talents and scenarios taking place. It doesnt matter that the skill level is light years below the top pro players, its irrelevant.
If we accept the game for what it is and for all the small stories taking place within an actual game it no longer matters if its not the world cup. It becomes exciting within its own framework. Womens football has improved massively in just the last 15 years and there is a lot of improvement to come. However if our expectations of any level dont fit that levels ability then we will always think its awful.
 
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What do the female players themselves want?
I have read interviews where women say they should have smaller pitches and smaller goals.

the OP is right, women are different to men, and this should be noted in the rules of the game.

The only problem might be if you have men and women playing on the same pitch, I.e OT or at Wembley - but I’m sure it’s pretty easy to scrub out lines when needed.
 

GoranIvanisevic

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That's a valid point and I think they need to change the men's game itself to encourage more goals (I'm a fan of the Wenger proposal to change the offside rule so the onus is on the defender to play the forward offside).
Actually the womens goals should stay the same, and the men's ones get bigger. I made a thread about this, the goals are no longer in proportion to the growth of the average height
 

Stack

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I have read interviews where women say they should have smaller pitches and smaller goals.

the OP is right, women are different to men, and this should be noted in the rules of the game.

The only problem might be if you have mam and women playing on the same pitch, I.e OT or at Wembley - but I’m sure it’s pretty easy to scrub out lines when needed.
Have you read the interviews where women players say they dont want smaller goals etc?
 

Matthew84!

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No, everything should stay as it is, just like the mens game they'll learn or coach better and better,
Also I think the size of the women playing will get bigger. I bet in 5 years or so the female goalkeepers will be alot bigger. Let their game grow.
I think it needs more coverage rather than changes.
 

Mb194dc

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The idea being to generate more entertainment, more viewers and therefore higher value TV deals? So players get more money. Or why do it?

I would leave it up to the players. No guarantee it would change anything, maybe they'd be interested in trialling it.
 

Peter van der Gea

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@Stack obviously has a lot of experience coaching, but isn't that a bit of a closed group, ie, they are already playing a woman's game on men's pitches. It's different from the men's game because the players have different physical capabilities.

I have two daughters who both play football but want to play it like the football they see on TV. They don't like watching women's football, no matter how hard I push it, because they don't like how it looks.

Surely, having the diameters of their pitches and goals would help them play the game they love.
 
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Have you read the interviews where women players say they dont want smaller goals etc?
Point being?

I’m not saying it should be changed, but to say it shouldn’t is pretty ignorant. Let’s let women determine how best the game should be managed - these are variables that could be changed if the women’s game think it would help - and should be led by women who have played and play the same.
 

BrilliantOrange

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Women are smaller than blokes. They aren't as fast, aren't as strong and can't generate as much power. Average height for a woman in the UK is 5'3", for a bloke it's 5'9". Plenty of other sports allow for these differences. In women's basketball the ball's smaller and the 3 point line shorter. In golf the holes are shorter in length. In volleyball the net's lower. In athletics the hurdles are smaller, the shot put lighter and the javelin shorter. The list goes on and each of those sports exhibit a higher level of female skill and competence than is currently evident in women's football . Watching the women's Champions League final I was struck particularly by how small the keepers looked in comparison to the goal; but also how slow the game was in transition and how (relatively) cumbersome players were in possession - the ball just looked...big by comparison. In my opinion it's possible the quality of women's football could be vastly improved by relating the size of the equipment to the female body size. I'm thinking smaller pitches, smaller goals and maybe even a slightly smaller ball. I'm not advocating five a side pitches with a futsal ball, I just mean that everything be reduced to the female equivalent. What do you reckon, am I talking bollocks?

This also doesnt hold for Tennis/Hockey or any other sport where the female counterpart of the sports are more developed right... Its an interesting idea, but I dont think its one of the solutions for developing the game and increasing the quality of women football..