Should we be worried about Rashford?

Deery

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
3,747
The initiatives and places to create an influence are his own. His letter to the PM would be his own. So it really does not take the shine off the MBE.

It's more like being the CEO of an organisation. He makes the key decisions, and his team of professionals do all the day to day work so he can focus on his day job (football)
I suppose you can look at it like that, but Roc Nation seem to have a lot to do with it..
 

Shiva87

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,126
Location
Mumbai, India
I suppose you can look at it like that, but Roc Nation seem to have a lot to do with it..
On the implementation, yes

But you are going by someone's view of their own job. People tend to over-inflate the importance of their own professional inputs (as I'm sure you know).

Roc Nation is the agency working with Marcus. But do you really think they have the authority to write an open letter to the PM of Britain on behalf of Rashford? Come on.

My sister runs a PR firm. Content is definitely created and monitored by them - but they don't make discretionary decisions of that nature.

The client gives a broad framework, and the PR firm uses the network available to them to maximize scale. Most key decisions need client consent. For e.g. all the posts from Marcus responding to tweets with children etc. ROC Nation will filter the 5-6 he should look at and he will respond. Marcus will not swift through 100 tweets to decide what to reply to.

It's not appropriate to discredit one for the other. Both the client and the agency have a role with maximises potential for both.
 

r3idy

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
544
Location
Near Old Trafford
Kin hell whats with all these threads about players since the restart. It's 3 fekin games !!! with the weirdest (and shortest) pre season. Give him and the other lads a break. This forum at times is like listening to a bunch of 19 years olds playing FIFA ultimate team. Players judged on 15 / 30 / 45 minutes of football.

We used to say no trophies handed out in Feb / March and we are now worried by the 15th October.
 

RedDevilCanuck

Quite dreamy - blue eyes, blond hair, tanned skin
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
7,231
Location
The GTA
He was hobbling last season before missing games. Like Rooney smd Kane he was overplayed when not fully healthy.

I really hope he gets over this. If he permanently loses his athleticism he won't reach the heights he should.
 

Brad_Piff

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 15, 2020
Messages
3
I think Rashford as an elite footballer who truly wants to be the best is over with. He's found a greater purpose than being a footballer, and he's using his considerable influence to make changes in our social policy.

A good comparison close to home would be maybe Mata (?) who sort of didn't quite excel as much when he was entering his prime years at United and really should've pushed to becoming De Bruyne's level, but didn't quite make it due to I believe his personal charitable priorities shifting away. I'm sure there are other better comparisons regardless.

Anyway, the great thing is he is so young, I'm sure he will become more motivated to becoming better as a footballer once society improves and child poverty in a 1st world country is completely eradicated
 

Deery

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
3,747
On the implementation, yes

But you are going by someone's view of their own job. People tend to over-inflate the importance of their own professional inputs (as I'm sure you know).

Roc Nation is the agency working with Marcus. But do you really think they have the authority to write an open letter to the PM of Britain on behalf of Rashford? Come on.

My sister runs a PR firm. Content is definitely created and monitored by them - but they don't make discretionary decisions of that nature.

The client gives a broad framework, and the PR firm uses the network available to them to maximize scale. Most key decisions need client consent. For e.g. all the posts from Marcus responding to tweets with children etc. ROC Nation will filter the 5-6 he should look at and he will respond. Marcus will not swift through 100 tweets to decide what to reply to.

It's not appropriate to discredit one for the other. Both the client and the agency have a role with maximises potential for both.
Fair points..
 

DoomSlayer

Full Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2019
Messages
3,507
Location
Bulgaria
I think Rashford as an elite footballer who truly wants to be the best is over with. He's found a greater purpose than being a footballer, and he's using his considerable influence to make changes in our social policy.

A good comparison close to home would be maybe Mata (?) who sort of didn't quite excel as much when he was entering his prime years at United and really should've pushed to becoming De Bruyne's level, but didn't quite make it due to I believe his personal charitable priorities shifting away. I'm sure there are other better comparisons regardless.

Anyway, the great thing is he is so young, I'm sure he will become more motivated to becoming better as a footballer once society improves and child poverty in a 1st world country is completely eradicated
Oh feck off. Which mod approved this proper WUM of a post?
 

Deery

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
3,747
I think we all have to remember Rashford is still only 23 and his prime won’t come until he’s 26/27 so that’s another 3/4 years..


Plenty of time for him, just like any young players under in an intense atmosphere he will have his high and low points but when his highs start becoming more consistent we’ll have a top player on our hands..
 

snowkarl

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
332
I think we all have to remember Rashford is still only 23 and his prime won’t come until he’s 26/27 so that’s another 3/4 years..


Plenty of time for him, just like any young players under in an intense atmosphere he will have his high and low points but when his highs start becoming more consistent we’ll have a top player on our hands..
Alexandre Pato, Adriano, Saviola, Anderson, Victor Valdes, Rooney, Denilson, Kaka, Torres... plenty of players have peaked in their early twenties, especially those who suffer injuries and rely heavily on their physical attributes like speed and agility.

There is no guarantee players will keep getting better in their mid to late twenties and actually often suffer a decline in performance if injuries take their toll.

Rashford's been rather poor aside from that 2-3 month great period last year and he honestly doesn't look fit or confident anymore. Really worried about his back, it took Van Persie 3-4 YEARS to fully rehabilitate after his injury and he had to dedicate his entire life to staying fit, doing yoga and getting extra, personal trainers to stay fit and only managed to do so when he was 27-28.
 

AndersB

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 17, 2016
Messages
349
I think people's memories are short here. As was pointed out earlier here, his form has always been really cyclical, back injury or not. For a couple of other periods these past few years he's been absolutely diabolical, worse than post-lockdown now. Every time, people start questioning him proper, before it turns and he starts looking like a world class prospect again. Give him time. Poor form aside, he's even scoring goals this time around, for chrissakes
 

UnitedFan93

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
223
What is is doing away from football is outstanding don’t get me wrong. However, he must balance this with what put him into that prominent position in society in the first place, ie being a world class footballer for Manchester Utd. It’s impossible to knock him but Ole and the coaches must keep him focused on his day job, particularly right now at a time the team needs all his talent ON the pitch.
Quite right

What he's done off the pitch is fantastic and has to be applauded. His campaign however must not become a distraction for him during the week and between matches. There's a reason why he's on £200K a week at 22 years old, and it's to win football matches for Manchester United.

He's done tremendous work, however, his first focus has to be Manchester United and being the best footballer he can be. I'm sure it is, however his drop in form has been a bit concerning.
 

Deery

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
3,747
Alexandre Pato, Adriano, Saviola, Anderson, Victor Valdes, Rooney, Denilson, Kaka, Torres... plenty of players have peaked in their early twenties, especially those who suffer injuries and rely heavily on their physical attributes like speed and agility.

There is no guarantee players will keep getting better in their mid to late twenties and actually often suffer a decline in performance if injuries take their toll.

Rashford's been rather poor aside from that 2-3 month great period last year and he honestly doesn't look fit or confident anymore. Really worried about his back, it took Van Persie 3-4 YEARS to fully rehabilitate after his injury and he had to dedicate his entire life to staying fit, doing yoga and getting extra, personal trainers to stay fit and only managed to do so when he was 27-28.
The results show that the average professional soccer player peaks between the ages of 25 and 27. In the preferred models, the average forward peaks at 25, whereas the typical defender peaks at 27. For midfielders, the estimated peak age varies by model but still occurs in the 25–27 age band.
 

snowkarl

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
332
The results show that the average professional soccer player peaks between the ages of 25 and 27. In the preferred models, the average forward peaks at 25, whereas the typical defender peaks at 27. For midfielders, the estimated peak age varies by model but still occurs in the 25–27 age band.
The average salary for footballers in the Premier League is 240 000 per month or 60 000 per week, hence Rashford is going to be making 60 000 per week or 240 000 a month.

Many, many, many players have, for various reasons, peaked earlier or later than 23 and there is no guarantee whatsoever that Rashford will become a better player just because he has not yet reached the average peak age for a footballer.

Another reason why this could be untrue is that he started playing as a first team player far earlier than the average top team striker and like Rooney could risk getting burned out at a much earlier age than the average player.
 

Deery

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
3,747
The average salary for footballers in the Premier League is 240 000 per month or 60 000 per week, hence Rashford is going to be making 60 000 per week or 240 000 a month.

Many, many, many players have, for various reasons, peaked earlier or later than 23 and there is no guarantee whatsoever that Rashford will become a better player just because he has not yet reached the average peak age for a footballer.

Another reason why this could be untrue is that he started playing as a first team player far earlier than the average top team striker and like Rooney could risk getting burned out at a much earlier age than the average player.
Salary has got nothing to do with it could be earning £60 a week and still not at his peak years.

Rooney had more explosiveness to his game at a younger age but his all round game and finishing became better around average peak age.

You’re being very pessimistic thinking that he will not get any better, I’d like to believe the stats and information given rather than base it on a hunch..
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
4,797
Let's revisit this after at least a few more games. He's still learning LW but is much better positionally then he was - he just rushes at things which hopefully improves with experience. I think some of the stupidly high expectations of him have luckily faded as Greenwood has taken a lot of that pressure away, I think we'll see the best of Rashford this season even if the manager does change.

Definitely not a player to be worried about unless he's poached by No10.
 

Grande

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
3,094
Location
The Land of Do-What-You-Will
Sorry, didn't see this last night but you're right - that's a good point that I didn't really consider. I was just thinking in terms of pure off-field workload, which hasn't really increased much....but looking at it from the point of view of being thrust into a completely different type of spotlight than he's used to, of 'dealing' with the interest and praise etc.... could definitely have some sort of impact.

Your Fergie line reminded me of a story from one of my old bosses. He worked with a couple of United players around 2007-2010. One day he was at Carrington, supervising a couple of print interviews and Fergie had apparently come out to talk to the journalist conducting them. Thinking this was his big chance, my boss introduced himself, said he worked PR for x and y, and instantly Fergie started shouting at him "PR? What the f*ck do we need PR for? We're the best team in the country. PR. F*cking pack of swindlers." Apparently he was half-joking, but my boss always told it as the time he got the hairdryer from Sir Alex.

Edit - Somehow forgot Fergie's absolute best line, despite quoting it for the last decade. "PR. Professional f*cking Robbers more like".
Haha. Brilliant story! No wonder you get to keep telling it. And I’ve no doubt there was real venom blended into the cheeky Scottish smile when he delivered that line.

Like I said in the Maguire thread, I think both Rashford and Maguire are intelligent players with very good mentality to begin with, and I’m pretty confident they’ll bothhit back at some point as improved players and even more important to the team. How long it will take, I’m just guessing, but I have good faith in both of them.
 

Isotope

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
15,802
Supports
Ole Ole Ole
Didn't Rio have back injury also? Since then, you can tell he's regressing much. It's only his superb positioning and ball skill quality that kept him going.
 

Isotope

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
15,802
Supports
Ole Ole Ole
Damn right! Football > starving kids.
Don't you like him first and foremost because he's a footballer that playing for Manchester United? not because he's a human that help the starving kids?
 

Nevilles.Wear.Prada

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
1,652
Location
Malaysia
Supports
JDT
Goes on to show how much luck is involved in making or breaking a football athlete. And thats is why elite athletes paid and demand so much money. The amount of uncertainty is unbelievable. Imagine this type of agility limiting injury during formative stages of ronaldo or other players. No amount of will power or skill completely guarantees anything. Hope greenwood and other young players stay away from major injuries.
 

TheLord

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
739
The only people who should worry are the ones convinced that he’s a world class striker. For those us closer to the truth, there’s nothing to worry about!
 

FizzyWomack

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
236
Location
King Eric's Studs
No one thinks he is Ronaldo in making. Besides, we are not spoilt for choices. Martial is as inconsistent as Rashford.
Very true. And this is why we are struggling to reclaim our crown on world football. We are settling for second best.

Rashford, great lad. But not the football god we need to guide us to titles.

Oh how I hope I eat those words!
 

humiliated

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
29
Location
Sydney, NSW
Thing with Rashford is he’s capable of real quality and I do feel his periods of poor form are becoming shorter. The worry for me is the fact he’s so poor at the simple things. He still runs the ball out of play, overhits so many passes and gives the ball away so often. Needs to work on pure basics rather than trying to master the Ronaldo dead ball technique.

He so obviously suffers with confidence issues like most top strikers but most will resort to doing the basics and doing them well and that will build their confidence. As you say since the restart he has just been incredibly sloppy every game but he has in many periods at United and then when he’s on form he looks like he could be an unreal player. Still very young.
Agree with most of what you've said. But never thought of him as a top striker. His inability to do the simple things, we've witnessed since he appeared on the stage. That was 4 years ago now. His technical ability is sadly lacking, but what concerns me most is his goal scoring.
He hasn't scored 20 league goals in a season yet, no hat-trick to speak of and can't remember his last headed goal, which from a 6f 2inch forward ain't too convincing?
 

Stretender

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
542
Very true. And this is why we are struggling to reclaim our crown on world football. We are settling for second best.

Rashford, great lad. But not the football god we need to guide us to titles.

Oh how I hope I eat those words!
He is another one who has conned United fans into thinking he is undroppable.

His game is very poor for any team wanting to win big trophies. He is treated like a legend at United but he is not better than Martial who most people agree is not great either.

I look at Rashford and see someone who believes his own hype and thinks is bigger or more important than Ole. The fact that Ole continually picks him and Pogba regardless of form, suggests to me that Ole is weak and is intimidated by these characters . That's why I think we need a manager with gravitas here.

We really are settling for second best because I don't see him starting for a team like Liverpool or City.
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
5,976
Location
Ireland
I think we all have to remember Rashford is still only 23 and his prime won’t come until he’s 26/27 so that’s another 3/4 years..


Plenty of time for him, just like any young players under in an intense atmosphere he will have his high and low points but when his highs start becoming more consistent we’ll have a top player on our hands..
So until then, we keep playing him no matter how he performs. No matter who the player is "If he doesn't perform he should be benched".
 

The midfield general

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
23
What Rashford has achieved of the field is absolutely fantastic, My worry now is that he has become a part-time footballer, this is now showing with his performances for both club and country on the field, Exactly the same happened to Raheem Sterling not so long ago he lost his way, the same way Rashford has but he came back strong, Rashford has to do the same.
 

Deery

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
3,747
So until then, we keep playing him no matter how he performs. No matter who the player is "If he doesn't perform he should be benched".
Did I say that?

I just think people are jumping the gun a little here, they way some are talking about him you’d think he’s done.Which isn’t the case.
If he scores a brace against Newcastle which he is very capable of doing will we still here all this nonsense?
 

snowkarl

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 12, 2018
Messages
332
Did I say that?

I just think people are jumping the gun a little here, they way some are talking about him you’d think he’s done.Which isn’t the case.
If he scores a brace against Newcastle which he is very capable of doing will we still here all this nonsense?
Newcastle is one of the worst teams in the league so no.

But either way, no one has said Rashford is terrible or will never improve or reach his past level, simply that his firm has been poor for a while now - something that is objectively true.
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
5,976
Location
Ireland
Did I say that?

I just think people are jumping the gun a little here, they way some are talking about him you’d think he’s done.Which isn’t the case.
If he scores a brace against Newcastle which he is very capable of doing will we still here all this nonsense?
That's what is wrong with us. We are not benching the ones that should be benched.
 

Deery

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
3,747
Newcastle is one of the worst teams in the league so no.

But either way, no one has said Rashford is terrible or will never improve or reach his past level, simply that his firm has been poor for a while now - something that is objectively true.
Of course they will, if he scores a brace it will be ‘Rashford getting his form back’.

And, rightfully so his form has been bad because he broke his back.
That's what is wrong with us. We are not benching the ones that should be benched.
We need benching DeGea, Maguire, Shaw and Pogba as well then..
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
5,976
Location
Ireland
Of course they will, if he scores a brace it will be ‘Rashford getting his form back’.

And, rightfully so his form has been bad because he broke his back.

We need benching DeGea, Maguire, Shaw and Pogba as well then..
Bench ANYONE who isn't performing to standard.
 

Mihai

Full Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
3,604
He is another one who has conned United fans into thinking he is undroppable.

His game is very poor for any team wanting to win big trophies. He is treated like a legend at United but he is not better than Martial who most people agree is not great either.

I look at Rashford and see someone who believes his own hype and thinks is bigger or more important than Ole. The fact that Ole continually picks him and Pogba regardless of form, suggests to me that Ole is weak and is intimidated by these characters . That's why I think we need a manager with gravitas here.

We really are settling for second best because I don't see him starting for a team like Liverpool or City.
We need someone who can provide FACHTS!
 

Deery

Full Member
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
3,747
Bench ANYONE who isn't performing to standard.
Do you think Ole will bench them though?

I said in another thread this is Ole’s biggest test the next 5/6 games.

It will take a great manger to navigate through them and I think man management is key.
 

Bestietom

Full Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
5,976
Location
Ireland
Do you think Ole will bench them though?

I said in another thread this is Ole’s biggest test the next 5/6 games.

It will take a great manger to navigate through them and I think man management is key.
Yes, your right. This is what I mean, he is NOT benching them, so if things don't improve and players performances don't improve it is his and his coaches fault.
 

matherto

ask me about our 50% off sale!
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
15,017
Location
St. Helens
His form has always been so cyclical as opposed to some players who are crap one week and great then next, Rashford for me is always not great for months at a time then really good for a while. As he gets older he will naturally get more consistent.

March 2016 - September 2016 excellent
September 2016 - March 2017 pretty poor
March 2017 - September 2017 excellent
September 2017 - May 2018 hit and miss
August 2018 - September 2018 pretty poor
September 2018 - March 2019 good to unreal
March 2019 - October 2019 pretty poor
October 2019 - January 2020 absolutely excellent
January 2020 - June 2020 injured
June 2020 - October 2020 poor but still good moments
Reads just like Rooney tbh
 

FizzyWomack

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 21, 2018
Messages
236
Location
King Eric's Studs
He is another one who has conned United fans into thinking he is undroppable.

His game is very poor for any team wanting to win big trophies. He is treated like a legend at United but he is not better than Martial who most people agree is not great either.

I look at Rashford and see someone who believes his own hype and thinks is bigger or more important than Ole. The fact that Ole continually picks him and Pogba regardless of form, suggests to me that Ole is weak and is intimidated by these characters . That's why I think we need a manager with gravitas here.

We really are settling for second best because I don't see him starting for a team like Liverpool or City.
Couldn’t agree more. Also it’s true about Ole continually backing him regardless of form.

Someone could also argue who better does he have to pick? But Lingard has looked just as good a choice in his recent small cameos.

Now is the time for Ole to step up and show he has the guts to make these big decisions, it could possibly keep him in a job if he made them.
 

gerdm07

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Messages
1,539
Yes. His effectiveness is dependent on his speed and dribbling with speed. Since coming back from injury I think he rarely uses his top speed. Some matches he has tried to take on a playmaker role instead of taking on defenders. This is a real problem as his passing and first touch are average. Without his speed, he becomes a squad player.