I have been saying this for a while alright. He was never a 90 million pound player at all.
Should we consider selling Pogba?
- Thread starter pocco
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
He should have been sold at the end of Ole's first season. We'd have gotten £100m plus for him and could have signed Bruno 1 window earlier.
Forgot he was still on the team.
Sell him for whatever you can get for him. 40 million, 50 million, whatever.
Just cut your losses and move on.
Sell him for whatever you can get for him. 40 million, 50 million, whatever.
Just cut your losses and move on.
The biggest indictment of him is the difference in our goals conceded.
The penny had already dropped with regards to Pogba and playing in midfield 2. If you see Ole had already taken him out of Central midfield. And yet he still managed to be a defensive liability conceded the penalty against arsenal despite playing on the left. Even playing on the left his lack of defensive work rate and focus is so costly and always increases the pressure we are under. Where else can we play him?
Sell.
I've tried to defend him for a long time, simply because of his level of talent and what he is capable of producing but he just never did so consistently enough. We've only ever seen his true talent in flashes and not for sustained periods which has been a constant source of frustration for everyone. I agree that he doesn't really have a set place within the team right now and we look better without him starting. I'm not sure who has the money we would be asking for so a possible swap deal may be the way out for him, but someone will have to pay his wages which again limits the potential list of clubs who could take him on. I'm unsure how we play it - do we try and cash in during Jan, or do we hope he plays and plays well for France during the Euros to boost his value? As an individual I think it would be better to part ways sooner as long as we reinvest that money. The club may have other ideas, and could prefer to try and boost the value of their 'asset' prior to selling.
Think it’s becoming clear now that hes being frozen out of the squad. I get the feeling the international break just gone was the final straw. Just hope we can recoup a decent wedge of money for him. Jose was right about him too.
I would love to know if the Pogba purchase factored into the thinking of the possibility of buying Sancho this summer. I’m leaning towards not blaming the board for not splashing out that much based on Pogba being underwhelming.
I would love to know if the Pogba purchase factored into the thinking of the possibility of buying Sancho this summer. I’m leaning towards not blaming the board for not splashing out that much based on Pogba being underwhelming.
Get Zidane on the phone!
A brilliant footballer, but it just hasn’t worked for him at OT. Best to get 50m in January and move onward and upward.
But I’ll still be sad. At peak, Pogba stands the equal of any footballer on the planet not named Messi or Ronaldo.
But I’ll still be sad. At peak, Pogba stands the equal of any footballer on the planet not named Messi or Ronaldo.
It's the Coutinho situation all over again. Anyone calling him shit or whatever should never watch football again and take to watching Badminton instead. He is our 'best' player when judged on pure quality but he simply doesn't fit into what our team is shaping up to be. Sell him and use the funds towards signing Sancho and we instantly go up a level as a team in my opinion. Then if you spend a bit more on a proper Matic replacement who has a bit more pace and bite to his game then we become a serious team. Just not the right player at the right time for us and has nothing to do with bad attitude or him being shit.
Based on what exactly? Fernandes by a mile is United's best player and every metric to use to measure it backs it up.
I like this way of thinking, very popular in Pogba threads. "Our best player/best midfielder/most talented attacking mid, he's not the problem, he just doesn't fit/he has to play with Kante/in France NT /...".
How about I make a case Lingard is our best player, he just isn't the right fit for the team we're assembling.
Jesus christ @Borys and @DanClancy is there any chance for a single second that you can let go of this bullshit of focusing on my only positive statement about Pogba and just respond to my idea that to progress as a club we should sell him and use the funds to bring in players in more needed roles? Nowhere in my post did I say we should keep Pogba, in fact I said the opposite. The fact is that he is a very good player by any visual metric and using Lingard as a comparison is laughable when he is clearly nowhere near the quality of player Pogba is. I'm agreeing with you for the most part for fecks sake. Also Pogba is absolutely a more talented player than Bruno but he doesn't seem to be able to quantify that on the pitch anywhere near as consistently. Hence I want us to sell Pogba and build a team around Bruno.
So to say I said 'he's not the problem' is absolutely stupid considering my post was about how we should sell him. What more indication of him being a problem do you want? Should we beat him before we sell him or just have him killed to make sure that everyone knows how big a problem he is. Honestly what more do people like you want because at this stage a post saying we should sell Pogba for the betterment of the team has been interpreted as me defending Pogba.
So to say I said 'he's not the problem' is absolutely stupid considering my post was about how we should sell him. What more indication of him being a problem do you want? Should we beat him before we sell him or just have him killed to make sure that everyone knows how big a problem he is. Honestly what more do people like you want because at this stage a post saying we should sell Pogba for the betterment of the team has been interpreted as me defending Pogba.
I can agree with this in a way but ...
Regardless of him being the wrong player at the right time or right player at the wrong time or whatever, if he had a better attitude and was as good as I keep being told then we'd have seen evidence of that way more often than we have.
Just my opinion obviously, but I'd rather we didn't spunk a load on Sancho. I'd rather we let Greenwood, Diallo and Pellistri have a crack. Agreed on the DM though.
All the talk of him from his team mates is that he is a stand up guy who has been really helpful in helping the new signings. That's what I meant because the consensus seems to be that he is a 'virus' at the club who is just a bad influence. On the field I honestly believe he is just a bit nonchalant which is just a part of footballing style (kind of like Eric at times). Hence back then we needed an Eric to come in to push us over the edge but right now we need a Keane to bring us to the next level because we are in different situations. I'm not a fan of his languid style on the pitch but its just who he is i my opinion and he'll be like that for the next club he signs for too. However maybe they'll have the team to accommodate that better and hence he might look better but his on field attitude won't have changed if you get what I mean.
Basically I don't believe the problems with Pogba we are seeing are because he is at Man Utd but rather these are simply who he is and we aren't in a position to account for that but maybe a different club are.
Aye I'm actually with you on that one. I was more using Sancho as an example of a player in a position that we are light in that could be purchased as a result of a Pogba sale. If I had the choice I think I'd use the funds to bring in a DM and a proper 9 (Haaland would be incredible). However even though I think Greenwood could be a top class RW, I also wonder if bringing in Sancho would allow Greenwood to become a top class 9 instead. Also at CB I really want a partner for Maguire but ironically Tuanzebe is basically everything I want in that player and if he can stay fit we might not need to spend the money.
Back to Pogba I think we should sell him and even if we just use the funds to bring in more quality depth and options for the first team, ala VDB, then it will still be a net positive in my view.
Total agreement with every single syllable of that sentence
how refreshing! DM and Haaland would be perfect.My view on Greenwood is he has everything necessary to be an incredible 9. All he needs to do is mature, fill out a bit physically and I reckon he'll be top drawer as long as he keeps his head in the game.
I feel the same regarding Axel too, only time will tell. His performance against PSG was fantastic but like you said, he needs to stay in one piece.
Zidane is getting desperate now and real Madrid always have cash. With a vaccine also around the corner, things should be looking up now revenue wise.
Perhaps there is scope to do some smart business in January itself. 60 million or anything above would be a really nice deal.
We could get a much needed DM for that
Perhaps there is scope to do some smart business in January itself. 60 million or anything above would be a really nice deal.
We could get a much needed DM for that
Based on what? Pogba is in his 5th season here and I've seen very little of it, we've seen more output from Fernandes in 8 months then we've seen from Pogba in his time here.
Pogba clearly has talent but we've not seen enough of it and he lacks professionalism in many parts of his game.
Real probably unlikely to spend in Jan, United could always let him leave on loan with an obligation to buy next summer; Would allow United to replace him in Jan or is there anyone at Real who may provide adequate cover for 6 months?
how would Haaland and Greenwood co-exist in 2-3 years time?Total agreement with every single syllable of that sentence
My view on Greenwood is he has everything necessary to be an incredible 9. All he needs to do is mature, fill out a bit physically and I reckon he'll be top drawer as long as he keeps his head in the game.
I feel the same regarding Axel too, only time will tell. His performance against PSG was fantastic but like you said, he needs to stay in one piece.
Probably safe to assume Cavani wont still be here in 2-3 years time and there are no guarantees regarding Greenwood is there? We would need more than Haaland on his own wouldn't we?
For the present, Haaland and Cavani would be brill. In 2-3 years, presuming Greenwood is a) where we'd like him to be in terms of development and b) playing in that role, it would be great to have them both.
Going back to Pogba, it seems to me the problem is that we’re going through a rebuild. He wants trophies now.
Available again tonight (correct me if I'm wrong).
Doubt he'll start, though. Maybe a cameo - and if it's a good cameo, take it from there.
Ole should NOT treat him as default starter, though - he has done absolutely nothing to deserve that this season.
In fact, if he can be used effectively as an impact sub (offensively - obviously), maybe that's his realistic role in this team. A bloody expensive one, mind you, but there it is - if it works...
Doubt he'll start, though. Maybe a cameo - and if it's a good cameo, take it from there.
Ole should NOT treat him as default starter, though - he has done absolutely nothing to deserve that this season.
In fact, if he can be used effectively as an impact sub (offensively - obviously), maybe that's his realistic role in this team. A bloody expensive one, mind you, but there it is - if it works...
He should be behind Bruno, vDB, Fred and Scott in pecking order.
He can always come on as a sub though.
He can always come on as a sub though.
If he wants trophies now, why doesn't he show it when he's on the pitch? He ranks A+ for Ego but E for Effort these days.
I think you might have answered your own question there. When I say say having more ability I mean having more talent. Basically Pogba at his very best is better than Bruno at his very best. I agree with you that a big part of the problem with Pogba is that he doesn't show us that anywhere near enough, and certainly not as much as Bruno. So my original post should have read that Pogba 'should' be our best player but in reality Bruno is. I was just railing against posters calling Pogba 'shit' when the fact is that he absolutely isn't. Regardless though he should be sold for the betterment of the team, especially if those funds are properly spent (ala Liverpool when they sold Coutinho).
I also agree that he lacks professionalism on the pitch but disagree with the viewpoint that that is because he is unhappy here. I think its just who he is and he will the same at any other club but that they might have the team that can mitigate that and make him a great player for them. We simply don't have that and in my opinion I'd rather us not try to build that team but rather go in a direction where we sell him to build a different style of starting 11.
He's shit for us. The last time he's showed that he's our best player is in 2018 and we're already in Dec 2020.
Go watch badminton yourself if you think otherwise.
Is he a shit player though?
For the past 18 months, pretty much yes.
Somebody should tell him they don’t hand trophies out for free, you have to earn them.
And I’d counter that also by saying this team is of a quality now where trophies shouldn’t be a distant fantasy.
Thats simply where we disagree so. I think he is a poor player for us but that doesn't mean he is a poor player in general. There is every chance he goes to another club and is a top player for them or on the flip side, if they can't play to his strengths, then he could be poor for them too. It's like Lukaku. He was never 'shit', he just dodn't fit into what we are trying. Now he is very important for Inter. So not a shit player but a good player in the wrong environment. Talking in absolutes is very rarely correct. I've been plenty guilty of it before and will be in the future.
Pogba isn't a shit player overall in any way but he isn't the right player at the right time for United and we'd be better off not building a team to make him the 'right' player but rather sell him and carry on building a different type of team.
No chance he goes in the summer. Clubs will be tightening belts after a year of their income being slashed.
Pogba is not going to be a priority signing for any club - at this stage he is very much a gamble for anyone.
PSG would be a small hope but teally difficult to see, especially as Pogba wants Juve/Madrid.
Frustratingly I think he will continue to sit out much of the next 12 months then sign up for Juve or possibly Madrid on a free.
His attitude on and off the pitch, patchy effort playing and constant flirting with other clubs as if hes too good for United, has been a disgrace for years.
Id let him go for nothing now from my perspective but obviously Woodward cant do that - hes probably valued at 100+ million on Uniteds balance sheet
Pogba is not going to be a priority signing for any club - at this stage he is very much a gamble for anyone.
PSG would be a small hope but teally difficult to see, especially as Pogba wants Juve/Madrid.
Frustratingly I think he will continue to sit out much of the next 12 months then sign up for Juve or possibly Madrid on a free.
His attitude on and off the pitch, patchy effort playing and constant flirting with other clubs as if hes too good for United, has been a disgrace for years.
Id let him go for nothing now from my perspective but obviously Woodward cant do that - hes probably valued at 100+ million on Uniteds balance sheet
Completely agree. We’re not a favorite to win any of the competitions we’re in, but if Pogba and Martial and a few others could be bothered to shift into high gear, we actually could be in the hunt for major trophies in May.
Madrid are in chaos, so maybe they'll splash out on Pogba in Jan? Should be able to get ~60m from them even under current conditions.
Right now, nobody, but all it takes is a couple of bad results, an injury ot two, then Pogba is potentially back in, and for all his faults the guy is talented, certainly way more so than likely fee we will get for him just now anyway.
I'm not so naive that I think he will be ultimately successful here, but whilst there is still some hope I would like to think it's possible still, and selling him for £40 million really just doesn't appeal, more so when there is absolutely no guarantees that money will be directly reinvested in a replacement.
No he should already have been sold
And I’m not so entrenched in my views that if Pogba somehow ends up back in the team through an injury or even by his own merit, turned it all around and decided this is where he wants to be, grafts and contributes to the team as we know he could that I couldn’t get back behind him.
I’m easily swayed with some stuff.
Useless again. Doesn’t even resemble a football player at the moment.
Why would he do that bicycle kick clearance? Why, why, why?