Should we give up on Anthony Martial?

Bebestation

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Someone I've personally started to dislike is Ryan Giggs.

His transfer ideas like Martial and James are quite average.
 

dannyrhinos89

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Cavani coming in showed us how bad martial is.

Cavani is intelligent, makes fantastic runs is dangerous from any position, martial is the exact opposite.
 

Black Adder

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I can understand Ole wanting to play him into form, but then you give him last 20min, next match 30min etc against already tired players and work his match fitness gradually. You don't start him and wait for him to do something when you have better options on the bench.

But I would sell him, he has had his chances to cement his place as undisputed number 9 and didn't take single one, it's time for both United and him to try something new.
 

RedDevilQuebecois

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When a guy of that age has had only 2 good seasons out of 6 and that those 2 seasons came when he was not facing particular internal competition, that says it all to me. If he can't take the heat nor work his socks off to EARN HIS SPOT, then we have every right to give up on him. Martial epitomizes the wrong attitude to have at the club.
 
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croadyman

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He's the sort of player that other clubs would sell to Spurs/Arsenal for £30-35m.

He's also the sort of player that United will hold onto until he is worth nothing.
Yeah mainly because our useless owners can't get enough of the guy
 

Ayush_reddevil

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We should have sold him when his value was decent. It’s mad that we sold Lukaku and kept this guy and it turned out like this. I am not saying that we should have kept Lukaku because he was bad in the second season but it is pretty damning of our coaching team that they saw both play in training and made that call
 

croadyman

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We should have sold him when his value was decent. It’s mad that we sold Lukaku and kept this guy and it turned out like this. I am not saying that we should have kept Lukaku because he was bad in the second season but it is pretty damning of our coaching team that they saw both play in training and made that call
Well our coaching team leaves a lot to be desired so not surprised at all
 

Redlyn

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It took me really long to turn on the guy because he had a lot of goodwill in my book. But he is really stinking the place up at the moment. His 19/20 season is recent enough for hope but damn the last year has been brutal. Either way this is his absolute last chance/season for the club as well if imagine.
 

Artimities

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Matial was one of those guys that when he came on...I instantly fell in love with his game. He is crafty and tricky with the ball. Can move in close quarters and in the box is hard to defend.....

but ...
attitude .... attitude.... attitude....
He always looks unhappy! He often makes me feel like he stops trying at points. In my opinion unless his form gets better. he should not start. Maybe coming off the bench in the last 15 to try and go in the box to draw a PK...
 

NewGlory

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Absolutely.

We should have sold Martial, Lingard, Dan James and gotten ourselves a good defensive midfielder, e.g. Bissouma. It's a fecking no-brainer to have improved our squad with no extra money needed. I am mentioning selling those three specifically, because they are sell-able. We also have all kinds of other balast, but not sure anybody will buy the likes of Phil Jones.
 

VanDeBank

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I sort of "gave up" on hoping he'd turn his form around when he lost his starter spot last season and then still put in lethargic shifts off the bench.
Absolutely.

We should have sold Martial, Lingard, Dan James and gotten ourselves a good defensive midfielder, e.g. Bissouma. It's a fecking no-brainer to have improved our squad with no extra money needed. I am mentioning selling those three specifically, because they are sell-able. We also have all kinds of other balast, but not sure anybody will buy the likes of Phil Jones.
Sadly, suggesting we should sell flops in order to strengthen other areas gets you angry reactions from FC player's fanclub.
One of their arguments is always to need to keep the player around for "depth". Can't have less than 5 senior players for one position :rolleyes:
 

NewGlory

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I sort of "gave up" on hoping he'd turn his form around when he lost his starter spot last season and then still put in lethargic shifts off the bench.


Sadly, suggesting we should sell flops in order to strengthen other areas gets you angry reactions from FC player's fanclub.
One of their arguments is always to need to keep the player around for "depth". Can't have less than 5 senior players for one position :rolleyes:
Repeating the same thing and hoping for a different outcome is a sign of insanity :) Martial and Dan James will never be the reliable, quality players for us. Never. As for Lingard, maybe he can, maybe he cannot but we don't need him nearly as much as we need a proper defensive midfielder and since somebody is willing to pay for him, we need to compromise.
 

lsd

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Anyone who thinks we should not give up on Martial have to be completely deluded
 

Kag

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We should have sold him when his value was decent. It’s mad that we sold Lukaku and kept this guy and it turned out like this. I am not saying that we should have kept Lukaku because he was bad in the second season but it is pretty damning of our coaching team that they saw both play in training and made that call
Nobody, presumably you included, was giving it this when Martial scored 23 goals for us in the season before last.

Rashford hit 22 and Greenwood was really starting to emerge after the initial lockdown period. ‘MMM’ was a thing, I recall. Lots of excitement at the prospect of this flexible front three developing into something special was rampant across these very forums.

The call you are referring to is one that supporters collectively bought into. It’s disingenuous to suggest that we were all in disagreement with the decision to offload an overweight player who really, really didn’t want to be here.

And yes, my patience with Martial is all but gone. He looked like kicking on and he hasn’t. Such is life.
 

VanDeBank

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Repeating the same thing and hoping for a different outcome is a sign of insanity :) Martial and Dan James will never be the reliable, quality players for us. Never. As for Lingard, maybe he can, maybe he cannot but we don't need him nearly as much as we need a proper defensive midfielder and since somebody is willing to pay for him, we need to compromise.
Martial at his peak was better than Lingard's best and Martial's worst was nowhere near Lingard's year long barren run. Are you sure you're not a little biased towards Lingard because he's homegrown?
 

snk123

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Cavani coming in showed us how bad martial is.

Cavani is intelligent, makes fantastic runs is dangerous from any position, martial is the exact opposite.
Cavani was awful in many of the games before Pogba came back. Yes his movement is great but even he can't do anything when we don't have control of the midfield.

People here have such short memories - it's quite unbelievable.
 

snk123

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Anyone who thinks we should not give up on Martial have to be completely deluded
Considering every player has had varying levels of performance in the past 5-6 years - Anyone who thinks we should give up on a player based on 60 odd minutes this season is biased. As supporters we must give our "Players player of the year" this season to prove that the last one was a blip. If he doesn't perform then we should get rid.
 

Giggs' right foot

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Considering every player has had varying levels of performance in the past 5-6 years - Anyone who thinks we should give up on a player based on 60 odd minutes this season is biased. As supporters we must give our "Players player of the year" this season to prove that the last one was a blip. If he doesn't perform then we should get rid.
Not one.single.member is basing their Martial-opinions on a mere 60 minutes. Rather - it’s last year’s 36 games.

He’s simply regressed since 2016, so it’s not like he’s not living up to some unfairly high ceiling, he’s just simply not living up to his own teenage self, and being almost 26, most of us have given up on ever reaping even half the benefits of what a 19-20 year old Martial looked to bring to the table.

And curious: how are former player’s awards relevant to the present evaluations?
 

crossy1686

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I’m taking a new stance on Martial, instead of complaining about him not being good enough, I’m just going to try and enjoy his last 11 months at the club instead
 

crossy1686

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Cavani was awful in many of the games before Pogba came back. Yes his movement is great but even he can't do anything when we don't have control of the midfield.

People here have such short memories - it's quite unbelievable.
Cavani was having a rough time adjusting to a new country, new language and new city, all during a pandemic. Despite all that he got 17 goals last season.

He started like Falcao, I’ll give you that, but he warmed up pretty fast. Elite mentality, that’s why.
 

snk123

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Cavani was having a rough time adjusting to a new country, new language and new city, all during a pandemic. Despite all that he got 17 goals last season.

He started like Falcao, I’ll give you that, but he warmed up pretty fast. Elite mentality, that’s why.
Of course. But maybe that strikers and forward players tend to play well when the midfield plays well?

I'm not saying Martial was awful last season - he was. But it's funny watching people continuously blame Martial (there were 3 active threads bashing Martial after our last game) for problems that lie elsewhere.
 

snk123

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He’s simply regressed since 2016, so it’s not like he’s not living up to some unfairly high ceiling, he’s just simply not living up to his own teenage self, and being almost 26, most of us have given up on ever reaping even half the benefits of what a 19-20 year old Martial looked to bring to the table.
He looks unfit to me. It's clear with his footwork and he looks bulkier as well. Yes he seems to have regressed but still deserves another season.

And curious: how are former player’s awards relevant to the present evaluations?
By that logic, isn't using last season's performances to judge Martial in present wrong as well?
 

snk123

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Someone I've personally started to dislike is Ryan Giggs.

His transfer ideas like Martial and James are quite average.
So let's see this in order of reasons for disliking Ryan Giggs:

1. Giving LVG an idea of signing Martial - who instantly performed in a Utd Shirt against the scousers. Also had excellent seasons. Won Players player of the year.
2. Having an affair with his brother's wife for 8 years.
3. Cheating his wife time and time again
4. Trying to hide his affairs using injuctions
5. Assaulting women
6. Being an extremely shit person to look up to for his children

Yeah, your order sounds about right.
The hate people have for Martial is really unbelievable at times.
 

Fitchett

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Yes, I gave up on Martial a long time ago. It's a pity that the club hasn't and continues to reward consistent failure and lack of effort.
 

Gandalf

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Yes, I gave up on Martial a long time ago. It's a pity that the club hasn't and continues to reward consistent failure and lack of effort.
I don't think we are rewarding lack of effort at this point but we are genuinely between a rock and a hard place. The last contract clearly overvalued him in hindsight but at the time there was belief he would be worth it. We now have a COVID economy which means outside of the mega clubs nobody can afford a fee and his wages and his form last season is hardly going to tempt anyone to come rushing in with a fistful of cash.

With limited options up top and a need to try and rebuild his value I don't think Ole was wrong to start him against Southampton. I think we expected them to sit deep and so his footwork would be valuable in breaking them down but in fact they played a lot more on the front foot than expected and so he was left to play a more traditional number 9 role which does not suit him. I do fault Ole for not taking him off at the half, it was clearly not working and we should have changed things faster and this is still the weakest aspect of his management.

I won't say we should give up on him as there is no realistic option to move him on right now. He is clearly behind Cavani and probably Mason too once Sancho is up to speed and Rashford is back but he can be used in rotation and it is the job of the coaches to try and get the best from him. If he can get up to true match fitness he can contribute a few goals and assists albeit mostly as a bench option and hopefully improve his reputation so that next summer we can expect some genuine interest from the market.
 

Artimities

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He is really good with receiving the ball in the box or near it. He keeps the ball close and is really tricky with his touch. He is fairly strong. He has a fairly decent shot when in proper form.
Cons- his attitude is always mehhh!!! I can’t remember ever seeing him full out sprint and hustle. The hungriest I have ever seen him was his debut, if I remember correctly.
this for me is easy.. he is at his best when hungry. He doesn’t seem hungry to me. His attitude therefore is his driving factor for playing on the team, and I think his attitude is horrible from what I can see.
We should sell him.
 

dpansheth

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He is really good with receiving the ball in the box or near it. He keeps the ball close and is really tricky with his touch. He is fairly strong. He has a fairly decent shot when in proper form.
Cons- his attitude is always mehhh!!! I can’t remember ever seeing him full out sprint and hustle. The hungriest I have ever seen him was his debut, if I remember correctly.
this for me is easy.. he is at his best when hungry. He doesn’t seem hungry to me. His attitude therefore is his driving factor for playing on the team, and I think his attitude is horrible from what I can see.
We should sell him.
I know this is not the thread, but this has been one of problems I have with Ole, he hasn’t address this attitude issue with Martial. Either sort it out or get you money back. Because if he doesn’t improve then his value is going to go down. So no point in waiting anymore to sell him next year.
decide and move on.
 

0le

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Can anyone point to genuine evidence which demonstrates he has an attitude problem? I do not think "not being able to make off the ball runs" is an indication of a poor attitude but rather just a player without some of the instincts of a striker.
 

WhyYouGottaBeSoRuud?

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Get rid, should be at the peak of his powers but don't look bothered. For me: Håland first choice, Kane second choice, Calvert-Lewin third choice.
 

The Brown Bull

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Can anyone point to genuine evidence which demonstrates he has an attitude problem? I do not think "not being able to make off the ball runs" is an indication of a poor attitude but rather just a player without some of the instincts of a striker.
Watch him during a game. They guy has ability but it seems to me he’s either clueless or he just doesn’t give a fcuk.
 

Artimities

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Can anyone point to genuine evidence which demonstrates he has an attitude problem? I do not think "not being able to make off the ball runs" is an indication of a poor attitude but rather just a player without some of the instincts of a striker.
An example I would give is watching his face and body language. There is a reason cameras have started showing his body language. So you know it’s there. Now… add in his real lack of effort and hustle that say Cavani or even James show when they come on.
I love his ability and footwork… just wish he would smile and hustle.
 

Artimities

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It’s that end game hustle…. Give me cavani or martial as my choices… it’s hands down Cavani every time. Martial knows that.
 

NewGlory

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Martial at his peak was better than Lingard's best and Martial's worst was nowhere near Lingard's year long barren run. Are you sure you're not a little biased towards Lingard because he's homegrown?
I am only giving Lingard some benefit of doubt because he had fantastic half-season with West Ham recently, but otherwise - what you said. All in all, I think they are both useless for us.