Should we give up on Anthony Martial?

[Abraxas]

It's early in the season but it's concerning he doesn't really look at the races physically considering he should have been motivated to improve on last season. That was the minimum expectation even if the performance was lacking. He looked pretty ponderous, it took him an age to shift his feet on the ball and it was a continuation of offering very few opportunities to be an outlet for his team mates.

Definitely a concerning start. I don't think the manager is going to retain all that much patience as Sancho gets up to speed, Rashford to return in time, Cavani coming back. He could very much be a bit part player unless he significantly improves very soon.

 

[VP89]

If he scored that header I think the thread would look very different

 

[noodlehair]

My memory is hazy, but I seem to remember him losing his starting role to Cavani around the beginning of the year (and also having given up a lot of minutes to Cavani prior to that until the whole unfortunate Instagram suspension for Cavani.) Am I remembering incorrectly?

Not quite. Martial was playing more games than not despite the performances being the same level as yesterday. He had one decent game against City but even then decent as in he did the bare minimum you'd expect from a forward in any game in terms of working hard, making runs and holding up the ball.

The problem with Martial's general level of performance in the couple of months leading to his injury and yesterday is that he is not even doing the bare minimum. He is doing less than you'd expect if you shoved Elanga up front for example, never mind Cavani. He simply shouldn't be in contention to play ahead of anyone in our squad until he gets his act together.

Honestly I think the whether he should stay or go issue is besides the point. You expect a standard of performance, work/team ethic and bravery from any player who's picked and repeatedly picking someone who falls so astonishingly far short of that will sooner or later have a negative impact on the whole squad.

 

[Eli Zee]

Yes. I expect nothing from him except complacency and lack of effort on the pitch

 

[KiD MoYeS]

He's birdwatching up top nowadays. Shouldn't be selected and should have been hooked off at half-time yesterday. I am hoping that was an eye opener for Ole, as he appears to be a big fan of Martial.

 

[Lentwood]

Yes. More concerning than his actual form is that he seems to be able to turn it on when he wants - like City away last year. He looked a monster in that game, ran Dias and Stones ragged. Yesterday was anonymous and sluggish against a borderline Championship-standard back four

There's no room for that kind of attitude at an elite side

 

[pcaming]

He really not providing a single thing, I kept forgetting he was playing. I used to be able to say we can see the potential, but now even that is gone. Ole wants a striker for a reason, Martial ain't it.

 

[TempusFugit]

I refuse to judge him oin yesterday's turn. He is clearly not match fit. Its the coaching staff's fault they started him

I agree with this. He has barely played for 6 months, i think he was struggling to cope with the intensity of Southampton's press. He'll need more than 1 game to get going.

 

[Kcocymkcus]

I want Martial out too. I don't mind when players are going through bad patches but then if you show the mentality, drive and attitude, fans will forgive. If Cavani kept playing the way he does but the goals dried up, fans would still think fondly of him because you can see the effort.

However, you are comparing him to the legendary strikers of United.

If we compare him to the EPL strikers in other teams right now (minus the absolute top bracket), would you take any of these ahead of him?

Werner
Firminho
Jesus
Auba
Lacazette
Iheanacho

He probably falls nicely in the middle somewhere there.

I think it's time to put away the dream that he will ever fulfill his potential with United and either sell him or make it clear to him that he'll always be nothing more than a squad filler.

If he has the ambition to grow and potentially break into the France national team, he should ask for a transfer. I hope he does.

The irony of your post though (and I mean this in a nice way!) Is that the list of players I mentioned who you called 'legends' weren't legends when they came to Utd, or if they were at other clubs, they still had to work for that title at Utd.
And that's exactly what you mentioned when you said a player has to show the drive, attitude, passion etc to be a top striker. All the strikers I mentioned made it happen at Utd because of their attitude. But I just don't see that same attitude with Martial, he's like a light switch.
I agree with you when you say that if its just a dip in form then I can forgive it because fitness/form isn't set in stone, it peaks and wanes and I get that. But as long as the desire is there you know it will eventually come back. But with Martial he's been here long enough now that it can't be form waning.
My heart sinks when I see his name on the teamsheet, as it does when I see Lingards.

This is United. Biggest club in the world and we're fielding players in key positions that simply wouldn't get picked at City, Chelsea or Liverpool.

 

[rooney2009]

He wasn't match fit yesterday but we played worse after He was taken off and did not look like scoring after that.

 

[Solius]

His touches looked better against Leeds so I'm not really sure the issue was fitness. He had a full pre-season.

 

[Ayoba]

This is typical Martial, half arsed, lazy, sullen and just incredibly ineffective. He's always been like this, yes, even during this best every season where he was POTY and scored over 20 goals (martial fan boys favourite line). We just cannot afford to carry a player like this anymore, even as a squad player. For once I wish we were ruthless and just got rid. Right now i'd genuinely have lingard or James over him.

 

[Mainoldo]

I don’t know. I think he lacks discipline. Very similar to Luke Shaw in my eyes. Shaw come through it.

 

[mk7]

He wasn't match fit yesterday but we played worse after He was taken off and did not look like scoring after that.

That was the most interesting part. He did not contribute much, but after he was taken off we looked worse.

 

[kouroux]

I'm french so in theory I should be backing him but I cannot take it anymore. Everyone deserves a fresh start, he should really go

 

[Mike Smalling]

It's only a year and a half ago that he was in great form during the restart and finished as our top scorer. Not saying we shouldn't let him go, but it is remarkable how fast he declined from that level.

 

[Van Piorsing]

I was sad when Becks, Nistelrooy, Keane and Ronaldo were leaving... won't cry because of someone who doesn't even bother to do basic things on the pitch.

Ole will probably give him time till the rest of this season because Ole's nice guy... too nice at times.

 

[#07]

To some extent I think Martial is playing in the wrong team in the wrong league. I think Martial would have been a good little man in a classic big man, little man forward pairing. If he went to a club that plays 442 or 352, and he could be the one who plays off of someone else, I think Martial would be very successful. He is a shadow striker, he comes short, he looks for interplays, he likes to react to things rather than run ahead of the play.

He just is not a striker. Not in the pure sense. He does not 'come alive' when the ball is out wide. He is not making that darting run across the near post several times a game, or making those runs into the box on a gamble that a ball will be missed by a defender or spilled by the keeper. He does not have the instinct of a #9. We have tried with him, and at moments you have thought: 'Aha!' But its always fleeting. A United centre forward has to be on his bike as soon as a creative player gets it, going away from the ball, running the channels, stretching things. That does not seem to come naturally to Martial. If its not ball to feet he's not particularly interested.

I actually think Martial would do better in Spain than England. The football is played more on the deck, its more methodical. Yes they cross it more than they used to. But the build up is still more intricate and less direct. I just don't see him ever becoming a Andy Cole, Van Nistlerooy, Saha type centre forward. He just doesn't have the instincts and he does not appear to want to modify his game to become that. He doesn't fit.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

I really don't get what happened to him. Everytime he got the ball he immediately lost it or passed it off. Every time he tried to take someone on, he lost it. Where the man who burned 3 Liverpool players and smashed it. He was unlucky not to score that header though.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

It's starting to look as though it's not a case of us giving up on Martial but Martial giving up on us.

 

[DSG]

We have two 9s better than Martial, Greenwood and Cavani. No need to hold onto him. Sell and buy a midfielder who can play through the high press — that’s our biggest need.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Sell if we can, get some money to buy a DM, which we need more tbh.

Greenwood has shown that he can play as a 9, and we have Cavani. Keep Amad for more option on the wings, and it balances out.

 

[Rawls]

The thing i worry about him is that i worry that his 23 goal season was more due to the opposition team not adapting to a Bruno fernandes inclusive Manchester United.

It felt like teams attacked us more (due to our lack of creative capabilities prior to Bruno) and because of that we had much more counter attacking chances and time whenever they would attack us.

It felt that after Bruno's wonderful start after his January transfer - teams became more solid block and defensive vs us. This stopped the need for Martials back to goal ability, his interchanging passing ability or even his dribbling ability - because it wouldnt help against solid block teams.

I think we saw how leeds played vs us - compared to how southampton played more low block defensive vs us.

I'm not too sure I agree here. I think that the best explanation of the difference between '19/'20 Martial and '20/'21 Martial is Martial himself, not teams adapting to Bruno. Even if you look at Martial post-Lockdown, there was an intensity to his game back then that there wasn't for last season. As far as I can remember, he looked very bright and enthusiastic against Sheffield United, Aston Villa, Southampton, Bournemouth, and Copenhagen back then; however, this enthusiasm was nowhere to be seen last season.

And I disagree on the abilities needed to play against a deep block. If you are faced with a compact defence, little space exists so there is a need to maximise the little space you have. The best way to do that is by drawing defenders out of position through quick inter-changing passing ability and dribbling. If there is a reason why Martial has failed against deep blocks, it has more to do with his own form level as opposed to not being suited to play against deep blocks.

 

[jem]

Not quite. Martial was playing more games than not despite the performances being the same level as yesterday. He had one decent game against City but even then decent as in he did the bare minimum you'd expect from a forward in any game in terms of working hard, making runs and holding up the ball.

The problem with Martial's general level of performance in the couple of months leading to his injury and yesterday is that he is not even doing the bare minimum. He is doing less than you'd expect if you shoved Elanga up front for example, never mind Cavani. He simply shouldn't be in contention to play ahead of anyone in our squad until he gets his act together.

Honestly I think the whether he should stay or go issue is besides the point. You expect a standard of performance, work/team ethic and bravery from any player who's picked and repeatedly picking someone who falls so astonishingly far short of that will sooner or later have a negative impact on the whole squad.

Yeah, you're probably right. I just seem to remember Cavani having clearly moved ahead of him on the striking pecking order, even before the injury (which seemed unfortunate, given that the City game offered at least a glimmer of the form we'd been waiting for.)

 

[Green_Red]

MUGA!

There's a market there

 

[acnumber9]

If he scored that header I think the thread would look very different

But he didn’t. It would look different if he scored a hat trick too.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

The irony of your post though (and I mean this in a nice way!) Is that the list of players I mentioned who you called 'legends' weren't legends when they came to Utd, or if they were at other clubs, they still had to work for that title at Utd.
And that's exactly what you mentioned when you said a player has to show the drive, attitude, passion etc to be a top striker. All the strikers I mentioned made it happen at Utd because of their attitude. But I just don't see that same attitude with Martial, he's like a light switch.
I agree with you when you say that if its just a dip in form then I can forgive it because fitness/form isn't set in stone, it peaks and wanes and I get that. But as long as the desire is there you know it will eventually come back. But with Martial he's been here long enough now that it can't be form waning.
My heart sinks when I see his name on the teamsheet, as it does when I see Lingards.

This is United. Biggest club in the world and we're fielding players in key positions that simply wouldn't get picked at City, Chelsea or Liverpool.

Yep. Agree with that.

 

[VP89]

But he didn’t. It would look different if he scored a hat trick too.

Hattrick is going over the top but given it was an off the line clearance, it's just a moment to remember how fickle the thread can be.

 

[G-MUFC]

It's starting to look as though it's not a case of us giving up on Martial but Martial giving up on us.

Completely agree. His attitude is awful.

I'm guessing that he earns more per week than Salah, Firminio, Mane and Jota. That speaks volumes about the difference between United and Liverpool these days.

Complete waste of talent.

 

[acnumber9]

Hattrick is going over the top but given it was an off the line clearance, it's just a moment to remember how fickle the thread can be.

The thread was created after a season of garbage performances. I don’t think this qualifies as fickle.

 

[VP89]

The thread was created after a season of garbage performances. I don’t think this qualifies as fickle.

The posts in this thread would have been completely different if Martial had scored.

 

[VorZakone]

Funny how it goes eh. Martial was rated more highly than Memphis and now the latter looks a better player.

 

[Relevated]

Funny how it goes eh. Martial was rated more highly than Memphis and now the latter looks a better player.

Thats why you always hodl.

 

[El Zoido]

He should be playing on the left side of a front three, we have two better centre forwards at the club already. Apparently he sees himself as a CF, but most of his best performances have come from out on the left.

 

[crossy1686]

He should be playing on the left side of a front three, we have two better centre forwards at the club already. Apparently he sees himself as a CF, but most of his best performances have come from out on the left.

He's not first choice in any of the forward positions. He needs to find some serious form to salvage his career at this point

 

[ICHM]

We need at least 6 players in the 1st team squad to man the front 3, is he currently good enough to be one of those 6? No.

 

[Threesus]

The posts in this thread would have been completely different if Martial had scored.

Not sure about that. Rashford was scoring last season and his performances were criticized( rightfully ). Not sure posters would have let Martial off the hook.

 

[acnumber9]

The posts in this thread would have been completely different if Martial had scored.

It would’ve been those opinions that would be fickle in that scenario. Not the ones we have in reality.

 

[JB7]

He's the sort of player that other clubs would sell to Spurs/Arsenal for £30-35m.

He's also the sort of player that United will hold onto until he is worth nothing.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Sell and move on.