Should we just hope a new manager fixes it

[Bobcat]

Ironically his PL win-rate is actually inflated by Mourinho's squad, the squad he couldn't wait to rip to pieces and the one you are all lauding him for doing so. His own rebuild (this season) has 37% win-rate with Wolves and Chelsea to come.

His PL win-rate over his entire reign @Bobcat is 38%. (12 in 21 last season, 9 in 24 this). Ole is flushing us down the toilet.

If we wanna really get silly, by ignoring the caretaker time... feck me, it's 34% man. THIRTY FOUR PERCENT. We don't need to get silly though, in the Prem he's been fecking awful, doesn't matter how you want to twist it, every single stat says he's wank at his job. The longer he's in the job, the worse the stats becoGme.

Well i said winrate, not PL win rate, but your math is wrong mate. 21+24 =45 total matches, 12+9 =21 wins. Its 46,6%

Good enough? No, its clearly not, but i just wish both sides of the lair stopped with the dishonest arguments, hyperbole and hysteria

 

[Beaucoup]

Nonsense. Ole isn't good enough but he's not the single biggest issue. You've learned nothing from these last 6 years. ZERO!

At this present moment in time he is.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

At this present moment in time he is.

Too short term focused. There's better managers out there for sure but unless we remove the real issue we'll only end up back to square one again. Fans need to wake up. I don't think Ole is good enough either but removing him now would just mean that we don't change anything above him again. Woodward and the Glazers have to go. Fans need to take this opportunity to get rid and if that means sticking by a manager for a little while longer who is out of his depth so be it. Club is finished until they've gone. They're a cancer on us.

Ole in (just for now). Glazers out. Woodward out.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Nonsense. Ole isn't good enough but he's not the single biggest issue. You've learned nothing from these last 6 years. ZERO!

Most of us have learnt a lot. Don't let managers that don't fit the club one bit go absolutely wild with the club's money, and don't flip flap from one type of manager to a completely different type. It will cost you billions and years.

Oh, and most of all, the shittest managers you hire on paper, tend to be the shittest in reality. The best on paper will turn out best in reality too.

In order since SAF, on paper:

1. Mourinho
2. LVG
3. Moyes
4. Ole

And in reality: Moyes PL win-rate: 51%, LVG PL win-rate: 51%, Mourinho PL win-rate: 54% (including the part season the fecker wanted the sack) Ole PL win-rate: 46% AND DROPPING LIKE A STONE

If only the club could learn to pick a TOP manager again but one that FITS the club, then we might move in the right direction.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well i said winrate, not PL win rate, but your math is wrong mate. 21+24 =45 total matches, 12+9 =21 wins. Its 46,6%

Good enough? No, its clearly not, but i just wish both sides of the lair stopped with the dishonest arguments, hyperbole and hysteria

Sorry, I just added that wrong Bob, but 46.6% including the bounce is bad. The fact that it gets worse month on month is horrific and this season at 37%, no manager would or should survive that shit.

 

[Acquire Me]

Aren't you sick of scousers taking the piss and singing Ole's at the Wheel? Maybe you're fortunate enough not to know any.

I HATE it, no doubt about that. It will not last for them. He, Klopp, is a great manager tbf, but imo he got lucky with some players in. They don’t invest for the future, so with time we will be up there with them. Even be better.

Anyways, we need to be patient at this stage.

 

[Zen86]

We’ll be better next season with some proper investment in the summer, no matter who the manager is. If we don’t get that investment.. well, we won’t be, no matter who the manager is. Its all in Woodward’s hands.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

You see @Crashoutcassius, this annoys me more than anything on here right now. If Klopp has come in when LVG did or when Mourinho did and got the backing they got for 2 years, he'd have pissed it. How it that even a debate?

Mourinho got to bring in every single one of his favourite players right up until year 3 and the likes of Willian when they club thought "feck me, this is very short term thinking all the time, can we really carry on like this?". Those of you who hate Woodward the most tend to agree with that.

Woodward appointed these managers and gave them their remit... In the scenario where we keep Woodward , the fans don't get to pick the manager or the signings etc etc, Woodward continues to do so, do you have faith in him

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Even without Ed & a competent board Ole still HAS to go.

He’s fcking awful regardless of whoever is in charge of the club.

This is what clubs do- you sack manages until you find a good one who works..? Otherwise we would still have Moyes, Liverpool Hogson. I mean it’s most common sense? No club in history had stuck with a manger because ‘ oh the board is rubbish so fck it lets stick with a Shite manager too’ Unreal logic from defeatists

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Let me just list it for you @Crashoutcassius, the kind of environment you claim "no manager could do well in":

LVG Summer 1: ADM €75m, Shaw €37.5m, Herrera €36m, Rojo €20m, Blind €17.5m = €186m
LVG Summer 2: His favourite player in the World Schweinsteiger €9m, Darmian €18m, his favourite youth prospect Depay €34m, the midfielder you ALL wanted Schneiderlin €35m, Martial €60m = €156m

Mou Summer 1: Paul fecking Pogba €105m, his favourite player in the World Zlatan, Bailly €38m, Bundesliga POTY Mkhitaryan €42m = €186m
Mou Summer 2 + Sanchez: Another big manager fave Matic €44.7m, Lukaku €84.7m, Lindelöf €35m, Sanchez €34m. = €198.4m

And every single manager has been given more time here than he'd have been given at any other club, right now we're backing Ole so much that we're a laughing stock to the World, currently with a 37% win rate but are we sacking him? Nope, we're backing him still. Poch had done a cracking job at Spurs and had them in the CL final in May, fecker wasn't even allowed a blip before being booted out of the door by Spurs of all teams.

Oh yeah, the likes of Klopp and Poch could never succeed with that kind of backing. What an absolutely bizarre myth you've all made up.

The only managers who have an argument for not being fully backed are Ole and Moyes, but I have a real feeling a fair part of that is some self inflicted dithering from Dave and Ole's "it must be the right player" mantra.

Trying to find where I said what you quoted me saying

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Even without Ed & a competent board Ole still HAS to go.

He’s fcking awful regardless of whoever is in charge of the club.

This is what clubs do- you sack manages until you find a good one who works..? Otherwise we would still have Moyes, Liverpool Hogson. I mean it’s most common sense? No club in history had stuck with a manger because ‘ oh the board is rubbish so fck it lets stick with a Shite manager too’ Unreal logic from defeatists

Is the question though do you trust Woodward to appoint the right manager and control a fourth rebuild ? It's all well and good saying sack ole but we don't get to say sack ole and bring on poch and sign x players because it is up to Woodward

 

[Crashoutcassius]

You do realise that Woodward and the Glazers WANT Ole to stay?

Why

 

[devilish]

Even with good owners, Ole would still be the wrong guy to manage us. He's just so out of his depth tactically and it couldn't be more obvious.

And even with our owners, a proper manager can get some level of results whether it's playing style or wins. You can bring up LVG and Mourinho who have had history but the former actually had a strategy but he was terrible at getting the right players to play at a high level consistently and break down teams who sit back. The latter actually got results to an extent but he's a shell of his former self (LVG was too) and was terrible at man management with our generation of players.

Make no mistake, our woes have much to do with our administration but let's not pretend someone like Ole has no real effect on what we see on the field. It might be Ed's fault we don't have the talent we need, but it's Ole and the training staff's fault that our current professional footballers can't do the simple things like control a ball, play triangles, and do something that isn't totally predictable.

If we had great owners then they would hire top football people to manage the club. That means that they would know beforehand that

a- there's a reason that despite managing Everton for 10 years no big club wanted to sign Moyes
b- that LVG had been sacked by all the major clubs he worked for....twice
c- that Mourinho was losing his magic (and probably his brains as well)
d- that you don't get a manager whose only successes came with Molde back in 2013.

They would have looked at the future ie managers who were shaping football instead rather then the past. You see, back when I started loving football Trapattoni, Sir Alex, Capello and Sacchi were the dons of football with the likes of Lippi, and LVG being the rising stars These days, apart from Sir Alex, no one takes these people seriously anymore. Why? Cause football had changed and they had become a bit like the old men yelling at the clouds. There was a spat between Allegri and Sacchi a few years back and believe me, it was painful to watch. There again, young Sir Alex had to face the occasional drunken jab from Clough as well.

Sir Alex was a freak of nature. His consistency throughout the decades is something no one, not even Sir Matt was capable to emulate. It's time we understand that what worked 8-9 years ago doesn't necessarily mean would work now. Actually most probably it won't.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Is the question though do you trust Woodward to appoint the right manager and control a fourth rebuild ? It's all well and good saying sack ole but we don't get to say sack ole and bring on poch and sign x players because it is up to Woodward

As Woodward is still here we have no other option then to hope he chooses the right man next & we recruit better. The only other option is to give up until Ed goes.

What we do know can improve us is getting rid of our awful manager

 

[RUCK4444]

I think the club needs recasting around a more sophisticated and different playing style. Ole's way of doing things belongs to the last decade. Even if he manages to implement it successfully it won't win big silverware and we will have to start from scratch. Might as well do it now.

What is that opinion based on though?

As far as I can see Ole has tried to implement a high press and failed due to not having the personnel.

He’s undoubtedly more attack minded than Mourinho. I’ve read Our front three have outscored Liverpool’s front three just recently.

Attacking wingbacks, that everyone w@nks themselves to sleep over on the caf, only really work when you have some of the best in the world like Liverpool do.
AWB is improving in this imo and Williams shows promise.

The narrative has been set with Ole and people will believe what the press and their rival supporting mates wind them up about.
At the end of the day no manager does much better this season with the squad we have and the injuries, period.

Until changes are made above the manager we won’t see massive differences as proved with the last three managers.

 

[liamp]

Yes.

The owners and CEO aren't going anywhere and the football operations structure isn't changing in any meaningful way. The best option for this club, given our circumstances, is to churn through managers until we find one who can succeed in spite of the owners, Ed, the structure of the club, etc.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Woodward appointed these managers and gave them their remit... In the scenario where we keep Woodward , the fans don't get to pick the manager or the signings etc etc, Woodward continues to do so, do you have faith in him

None whatsoever.

But if he gets lucky and appoints the right type of manager for once, I think we'll do alright. We give managers both money and time, more than any other top club.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It seems to me that loads of our fans are determined to convince themselves that Woodward is acting as a DOF, because that helps obscure the painful reality that Ole has no clue what sort of squad is needed to compete at the level required. I mean, why would he? He's got feck all relevant experience and is having to learn all of this as he goes along.

And that's the crux of it Pogue, absolutely bang on.

The idea that our club got rid of all of these players without the managers ok is bizarre, I mean do they really think Evil Ed Woodward is there in his office saying "I'm sorry Ole, I know you want him to stay but I think he's awful so he's gone and I've got Judgey on the case securing his departure, I'll hear no more about it".

Ole the man himself had said he has the final ok on all transfers in and out and he's left himself with an almost impossible job because yes, this squad isn't fit for purpose. It can't be that simple though can it? You can't just allow any random manager to come into a club, spend 13 months making them considerably worse whilst talking up a grand plan, and just hope that they will get it right at some point.

 

[Bobcat]

Sorry, I just added that wrong Bob, but 46.6% including the bounce is bad. The fact that it gets worse month on month is horrific and this season at 37%, no manager would or should survive that shit.

Thats not entirely true either. We were utter shit at the start of the season when Martial was out and had a couple of good months around Christmas where we climbed a bit. Not a single person in this world expected us to go to Anfield without Pogba and Rashford and get a result. Losing to a terrible Arsenal side and fecking Burnely has been rough though

In Joses first season we had a win% of 47(18 in 38), and Ole is at 46% after 7 more games in the chair. I dont know about total win rate for Ole, but considering we won most of our EL games so far and have advanced in both league cup and FA cup it must be higher. Not that it matters though

In Joses first season we also had Zlatan, Carrick, Herrera, Miki, a fully fit Pogba and Mata had yet not lost his legs. I would argue the team we had in 16/17 is quite a bit stronger than the one we can currently field. I cant really recall how the mood was at the caf back then, but it was certainly not the doom and gloom we are witness to now. Also, keep in mind that Jose is the biggest instant success merchant there is. He comes in, wins something and then leaves. Thats his modus operandi

Dont get me wrong, its been a fecking shit season, especially with how Liverpool are sailing in to an easy league win while we are scrambling for top 4 with the rest of the dregs. The results have also largely been shit, but i honestly feel Ole is taking too much of the blame from some posters.

People point to bad tactics and coaching as the reason for our malaise, but i cant really recall seeing anything specific about his tactics that are utterly bewildering. Now granted i know feck all about tactics, but i guess that is true for the majority of the caf. Regarding coaching its obvious we are shite at set pieces both in attack and defense, but other than that i cant really say what hes doing wrong. Some players have really stepped up this year, Rashford and Fred the most obvious ones and i cant really say i've seen any player decline badly either, except those who have from old age.

Squad quality matters quite a lot, and considering our best players has been unavailable pretty much the whole season it was always going to be rough ride with a squad this think, the fact that we are desperate for some signing now with all the injuries and the club "backs him"verbally through the media but not with actual signings says something about what he has to contend with His status at the club gives Ole more rope with some people for sure, but his lacking CV, i'm sure gives him less rope with other posters.

Personally i dont care who manages us (unless its Rodgers, think hes a bellend) and i wont lose any sleep is i wake up tomorrow and Poch is in the chair instead, but even if that was the case i would think he would need at least 2-3 windows (with actual transfers) to make something of this squad

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

You look at the money spent by both LVG and Mourinho and you wonder why we are where we are. This is obviously down to poor recruitment and poor coaching.

Poor coaching : LVG and Mourinho were past it when we got them and no longer the best, and this is evident in what these two coaches are doing after they managed us. One is retired and the other is not doing so well at Tottenham. Ole and Moyes are out of their depth managers meant for low tier teams. So the first factor to our downfall is the appointment of the wrong managers for 4 consecutive times.

Poor recruitment : Over the years we've overpaid for players, brought in players that don't want to be here, brought in players that don't fit the managers style of play, kept average players to longer contracts and brought in players with very high wages. These are the players that make up most of the team today although Some of them went in the summer. We also miss out on good players that we could have gotten eg Fabinho

It is clear what we need. The two factors that led to our downfall - poor coaching and poor recruitment can be solved by getting a good DOF as his job literally involves recruitment and appointment of coaches.

You look at Liverpool and they have both those two factors going well for them. They have one of the best coaches in the world and their recruitment has been superb. The same thing with Inter.

Even with Ole these two factors are still there. Ole is a poor coach and his recruitment has been questionable. Maguire was overpriced and both he and AWB don't fit the highline (Maguire is too slow for this) and attacking (AWB not good enough going forward) system. So in reality we still have the poor coaching and poor recruitment that led to our downfall

Like I said, the best thing to do is just get a bloddy DOF. And if we don't get one then unless anyone knows a good coach out there with very good recruitment then we are fecked. The criteria of the good coach has to be a serial winner though if the plan is to get back to dominance.

 

[Bobcat]

[QUOTE="Pogue Mahone, post: 25211914, member: 19580]
That's another madness in this debate. The way that people keep distancing Ole from transfer decisions. I mean, you could just about make that argument in a club with an all powerful director of football that takes squad management more or less completely out of the hand of the manager. You know, the sort of thing we've all been crying out for. The exact opposite of the situation we have here at Manchester United!

I think it's reasonable to argue that it's a big ask for our manager to have so much autonomy when it comes to our transfers but that's the situation Ole is dealing with. And he's used that autonomy to spend a shit load of money last summer and still end up with a squad that's not even close to fit for purpose. It seems to me that loads of our fans are determined to convince themselves that Woodward is acting as a DOF, because that helps obscure the painful reality that Ole has no clue what sort of squad is needed to compete at the level required. I mean, why would he? He's got feck all relevant experience and is having to learn all of this as he goes along. I feel sorry for him. He's promoted to a position he isn't close to being qualified for. It's David Moyes all over again, only with slightly worse results.
[/QUOTE]

Well, the post i replied to was implying this was the same squad that Jose got 2nd with just with another 130 million worth of talent, which is imo a half truth.

I honestly dont know how the transfer decisions are made at the club, but the ones we made in the summer was the right ones. Lukaku wanted to leave since March so it was no point keeping around an unhappy player. Herrera was a big loss, but as i am sure you know, that was out of Oles hands and both him and the player himself wanted him to stay, but seeing as he was out of a contract and had gotten a deal at PSG already there was not much we could have done. All the other outgoing ones was not missed, with the exception of Smalling maybe

We have the second highest wage bill in the league, and even football novice Woodward must have realized there was a huge discrepancy between the wages we paid and the quality of the squad. Of course ideally we should have replaced every outgoing player with a new one (6 out, 3 in) but we did not so i think its very plausible the owners/board wanted to trim down the wage bill before we made new signings

Not just Ole, but the club is caught between two stools at the moment. At one hand we need to rid ourselves of unwanted players to free up some wages, but at the same time we are badly in need of fresh legs because the ones we have are either knacked, injured or simply not good enough. Its not impossible, but it takes time

 

[Leftback99]

How about we scrap these ridiculous excuses and rate the manager from day 1? Not after 5 transfer windows, not after he got his 25 players but game by game, how every single club in the world apart from us does. Good managers have immediate impact, we are the only ones inventing stupid excuses.

I will be (rating them from day 1) if we are committing to the quickfire sacking of managers route based purely on results.

If we bring Poch in and he starts like he did at Spurs (14 points from his first 11 games) i'll be demanding him sacked immediately. No excuses.

 

[dove]

I will be (rating them from day 1) if we are committing to the quickfire sacking of managers route based purely on results.

If we bring Poch in and he starts like he did at Spurs (14 points from his first 11 games) i'll be demanding him sacked immediately. No excuses.

Not talking about 11 games. But if after a year we are worse than before, he should be sacked.

 

[FireballXL5]

Klopp fixed Liverpool.

 

[arthurka]

Ole has been here for more than a year and we don't show any improvements in our attacking patterns and breaking down low block defence. He isn't the right man, we need a manager who improves players and play.

 

[glazed]

Anyways, we need to be patient at this stage.

No we're on the wrong track. Being patient won't change that.

 

[glazed]

What is that opinion based on though?

As far as I can see Ole has tried to implement a high press and failed due to not having the personnel.

It's not just that. He wouldn't know a high press from a shirt press. It's a sophisticated system. Players who have that level of sophistication or want to acquire it won't want to train under him. So he'll never have the personnel. Look how Sterling has improved his positional sense under Pep. Look how some fairly bang average players look world class under Klopp. That's how you bring in good players. You offer them the best coach. Not Ole.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If we bring Poch in and he starts like he did at Spurs (14 points from his first 11 games) i'll be demanding him sacked immediately. No excuses.

So you’re now gonna compare 13 months of shite to to 2 months? gotcha.

No-one has asked for any United manager to be sacked after 2 months, stop playing the idiot.

 

[Florida Man]

If we had great owners then they would hire top football people to manage the club. That means that they would know beforehand that

a- there's a reason that despite managing Everton for 10 years no big club wanted to sign Moyes
b- that LVG had been sacked by all the major clubs he worked for....twice
c- that Mourinho was losing his magic (and probably his brains as well)
d- that you don't get a manager whose only successes came with Molde back in 2013.

They would have looked at the future ie managers who were shaping football instead rather then the past. You see, back when I started loving football Trapattoni, Sir Alex, Capello and Sacchi were the dons of football with the likes of Lippi, and LVG being the rising stars These days, apart from Sir Alex, no one takes these people seriously anymore. Why? Cause football had changed and they had become a bit like the old men yelling at the clouds. There was a spat between Allegri and Sacchi a few years back and believe me, it was painful to watch. There again, young Sir Alex had to face the occasional drunken jab from Clough as well.

Sir Alex was a freak of nature. His consistency throughout the decades is something no one, not even Sir Matt was capable to emulate. It's time we understand that what worked 8-9 years ago doesn't necessarily mean would work now. Actually most probably it won't.

Good point in the first paragraph.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If we bring Poch in and he starts like he did at Spurs (14 points from his first 11 games) i'll be demanding him sacked immediately. No excuses.

@Leftback99 ... where on Earth did u make that shit up by the way?

Poch had 20 points from his first 11 PL games at spurs and already had a GD of +10.

 

[Leftback99]

@Leftback99 ... where on Earth did u make that shit up by the way?

Poch had 20 points from his first 11 PL games at spurs and already had a GD of +10.

I think you need to go back a season before accusing people of making stuff up. Makes interesting reading for those who think he could come here and turn us around straight away.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I think you need to go back a season before accusing people of making stuff up. Makes interesting reading for those who think he could come here and turn us around straight away.

Ah, now it makes sense why the magic number was 11, sorry.
It’s because he had 20 points in 13

By this stage, 24 matches, he had 43 points and a win-rate of 54%. That’s the kind of start to a season we’d all have been delighted with from Ole or any new manager, and Ole had the added bonus of coaching the squad (and future planning) for 6 more months than Poch.

Any other comparisons in mind that make Ole look even worse?

 

[Leftback99]

Ah, now it makes sense why the magic number was 11, sorry.
It’s because he had 20 points in 13

By this stage, 24 matches, he had 43 points and a win-rate of 54%. That’s the kind of start to a season we’d all have been delighted with from Ole or any new manager, and Ole had the added bonus of coaching the squad (and future planning) for 6 more months than Poch.

Any other comparisons in mind that make Ole look even worse?

Yes notice who he started playing after 11 games like Sherwood had realised already. Turns out he was pretty good. Top players make a difference.

 

[noodlehair]

Well said!

I've stopped posting but still have an occasional lurk and am constantly shocked at how many people can't see the simple fact that every single manager we've hired since Fergie retired hasn't been up to the job. I mean, it couldn't be more obvious. All you need to do is look at how they've got on at other clubs either before or after the job at United (recent career, obviously, as far as Mou/LVG are concerned) They're all varying degrees of bad news for any football club with aspirations of CL football, for various different reasons. It's no great surprise that no other top club would touch any of them with a barge-pole (unless you're an idiot like Daniel Levy, and I will thoroughly enjoy watching him reap the inevitable Mourinho toxic implosion at some point in the next year or two).

The Glazers are probably bad owners and Woodward is probably a bad CEO but there are shit-loads of managers out there who would love to have a "problem" like the scale of investment in our squad/wage bill that they've signed off on since Fergie retired. Not least a certain Argentinian who should be given the keys to Ole's office this weekend, if Woodward had an ounce of sense. The single biggest failure of Woodward's reign has been hiring bad managers and - more recently - stubbornly refusing to accept his latest hire has been a disaster. In terms of player recruitment he's been hit and miss but you can't ignore the role the manager players in building a squad at a club with a structure like United. Nor can you ignore that long running transfer sagas turning sour, or key targets being missed out on is part and parcel of being a PL manager. It is 100% the managers responsibility to make sure that he has a squad that is fit for purpose going into a long season, where we want to compete on multiple fronts. And by, "fit for purpose", I don't think anyone expected Ole to win the league but he sure as shit should have got more than 34 points after 24 games.

As you correctly point out, Mou and LVG were handsomely backed, Moyes and Ole less so, but they have to be held responsible for this themselves. Whether through indecision, an inability to identify attainable targets, or generally not having the experience you need to put pressure on the money men to seal the deals. Whatever, Ole is grossly out of his depth in every single aspect of what's needed to manage this club and anyone who insists that he would be a great success if only Woodward hadn't sabotaged his grand plan is living in cloud cuckoo land!

Rant over...

P.S. Re Ole and Moyes finding it harder than Mou/LvG to get signings across the line, does anyone honestly think ambitious, potentially world class footballers would go that extra yard to get their agents to try and seal a deal so they can develop their game under managers the calibre of Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and David fecking Moyes?!?

It's not well said though. There is a point in there about the managers but then an almost deliberate ignorance of who is in charge of appointing our managers and spending our money. It's over simplified ignorance brought about by the desire to look for a solution where everything will just magically get better.

Jose for example...the entire planet could have predicted how that would turn out, and actually, he did exactly as anyone would predict, hampered only by the club randomly deciding to abandon him halfway through and then start ignoring his requests for players and signing completely different ones instead.

We seem to have onveniently forgotten that the money Van Gaal supposedly spent caused him to moan in his first season about our signings making the squad too imbalanced for him to do his job effectively. His signings, that this argument requires you to believe he chose to make.

The "we can't make big signings with x manager" argument doesn't really work either. A majority of the players we signed under LVG and Jose turned out to be shite. Most of them aren't even at the club anymore. We signed Mata under Moyes who turned out pretty well, and Bissaka, James and even Maguire are certainly more useful than Mhikitaryan, Sanchez, Di Maria, Schneiderlin, Bailly, Schweinsteiger, etc...I mean I could go on. We also missed out on Mane, Pedro etc. under LVG. Ramos, Varane, Maguire (under Jose)...Woodward's fecking around with unrealistic or irrelevant transfers or fecking up realistic ones has been a very clear constant under all four managers. The suggestion otherwise is simply wrong. Just an imaginary stick to suit an imaginary argument.

Then to top it off Pochettino is for some reason randomly lumped into the same bracket as Klopp. One has won major trophies at two different clubs where really he had no right to. The other got sacked from Tottenham for not doing well enough at Tottenham...and the latter is the one these types of arguments just blindly pin all our hopes on. It's just become trendy on here to pretend Pochettino is the answer to everything. It became trendy almost the season before last, and has become so trendy we are now just ignoring the fact HE GOT SACKED FROM TOTTENHAM.

Change nothing about how the club is run and bring in Pochettino and everything will be ok because he got Tottenham to a champions league final once. Remember when Jose got sacked from Chelsea a few months after he won them the league and then we appointed him the next season and then everyone on here claimed this proved he was past it?

Looking for easy fixes all the time and creating self contradicting arguments to fit around them, is part of the reason why we keep fumbling from one mess to another. It's exactly what Woodward does. Arguing for him to do it again will, logically, produce the same result. How many times do you get your hand electricuted trying to take the cheese, before you think maybe you should try something different or just learn to like being electricuted?

 

[Revaulx]

And that's the crux of it Pogue, absolutely bang on.

The idea that our club got rid of all of these players without the managers ok is bizarre, I mean do they really think Evil Ed Woodward is there in his office saying "I'm sorry Ole, I know you want him to stay but I think he's awful so he's gone and I've got Judgey on the case securing his departure, I'll hear no more about it".

Ole the man himself had said he has the final ok on all transfers in and out and he's left himself with an almost impossible job because yes, this squad isn't fit for purpose. It can't be that simple though can it? You can't just allow any random manager to come into a club, spend 13 months making them considerably worse whilst talking up a grand plan, and just hope that they will get it right at some point.

Or Woodward really is the DoF and Ole really is just a yes man who will say anything to retain Woodward‘s continued patronage. Which, if true, is really sad.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yes notice who he started playing after 11 games like Sherwood had realised already. Turns out he was pretty good. Top players make a difference.

So it took Poch just 11 games to get it sorted and realise what his team was missing, added to that he’d been preparing Kane in all the cups so he was ready for it so his confidence was sky high.

13 months into Ole’s reign he still hasn’t got it. I’m sure he will though, just another 13 months should do it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Or Woodward really is the DoF and Ole really is just a yes man who will say anything to retain Woodward‘s continued patronage. Which, if true, is really sad.

I don’t belive Ole is a yes man at all.

Nor do I believe in a million years that Woodward acts as a DOF, every manager that’s come in choses his fave players that he’s managed before along with another bunch that he personally likes and has spoken about on record, Fellaini, Blind, Depay, ADM, Rojo, Pogba, Zlatan, Matic, Maguire, James.

If anything it’s Woodward that has been a yes man to these managers.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We seem to have onveniently forgotten that the money Van Gaal supposedly spent caused him to moan in his first season about our signings making the squad too imbalanced for him to do his job effectively. His signings, that this argument requires you to believe he chose to make.

As for Mourinho, one Summer we said no, before that the club gave him pretty much everything his heart desired.
Zlatan, Pogba, Lindelöf, Bailly, Mikhi, Matic... all Mourinho.

LVG... Blind, Rojo cause the pleb absolutely HAD to have a left footed CB, ADM because he desperately wanted him, Depay, Schweinsteiger for fecks sake. Tell me @noodlehair, which of the follwing did LVG not want that so imbalanced his squad?

Shaw? Herrera? ADM? Blind? Rojo?

I’ll give you Herrera, he seemed scouted by the club and already in place to just get a green light from LvG. And Falcao which was a loan signing that involved zero risk and that LVG himself green lighted so he could shift Chicarito and Wellbeck who he seemed to absolute detest.

 

[Leftback99]

So it took Poch just 11 games to get it sorted and realise what his team was missing, added to that he’d been preparing Kane in all the cups so he was ready for it so his confidence was sky high.

13 months into Ole’s reign he still hasn’t got it. I’m sure he will though, just another 13 months should do it.

That's one way of looking at it I suppose. Slight problem here, he wouldn't have a Kane to dramatically change his fortunes around. He's got a Lingard and a Mata though, they'd be like Alli and Eriksen 16/17 under Poch no doubt.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

That's one way of looking at it I suppose. Slight problem here, he wouldn't have a Kane to dramatically change his fortunes around. He's got a Lingard and a Mata though, they'd be like Alli and Eriksen 16/17 under Poch no doubt.

He, much like Poch back then, has got one of England’s most talented forwards who’s been scoring at a better rate than Kane that year, hasn’t helped Ole be less shit though.

Keep coming with the awful excuses for winning 9 from 24 and being 4 points ahead of Newcastle and I’ll keep showing them up for the nonsense they are.