Should we just hope a new manager fixes it

Revaulx

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I don’t belive Ole is a yes man at all.

Nor do I believe in a million years that Woodward acts as a DOF, every manager that’s come in choses his fave players that he’s managed before along with another bunch that he personally likes and has spoken about on record, Fellaini, Blind, Depay, ADM, Rojo, Pogba, Zlatan, Matic, Maguire, James.

If anything it’s Woodward that has been a yes man to these managers.
Oh I dare say you’re right. It’s the Ole fans’ fudging that gets to me.

To my simple mind:

Ole says he’s happy with the squad/transfer business and actually is happy with it = he’s completely deluded.

Ole says he’s happy but is faking it = he’s a yes man.

Lots of people seem to believe he’s faking it, but far from being a yes man he’s doing so for the good of the club. ‘Cos Fergie did the same when he said there’s no value in the market, or something.
 

Leftback99

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He, much like Poch back then, has got one of England’s most talented forwards who’s been scoring at a better rate than Kane that year, hasn’t helped Ole be less shit though.

Keep coming with the awful excuses for winning 9 from 24 and being 4 points ahead of Newcastle and I’ll keep showing them up for the nonsense they are.
You've not shown up a single thing I've said as nonsense.

Only shown yourself up when you tried to be clever above. Keep it coming though.
 
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You've not shown up a single thing I've said as nonsense.

Only shown yourself up when you tried to be clever above.
Well this latest excuse that anyone would sacked after 11 games and that those 11 games somehow prove that Poch couldn’t come in and turn things around is so silly it’s untrue. No-one @Leftback99 is fecking arguing that anyone could turn this shit show around in 11 games.

Yet then when you take the same manager to 24 games, where Ole is now, said manager had spent miles less than Ole (48m € in total, just 4m € NET) with an inferior team and had them massively outperforming Ole. That’s without the 6 extra months Ole had with the team to prepare.
All these excuses or whataboutisms are jist nonsensical.

There’s one reason for wanting Ole to stay and it has nothing to do with Klopp or Poch or Fergie, it’s: I like him and have blind faith in the man

At least just fecking admit it. I’d have respect for the Ole crazies in here if they simply said “I have no prior examples of a manager doing what I’m hoping Ole can do, there’s nowhere in football at the top top end where a guy has come in with this poor a CV, started this poorly for 13 months and turned it around to become a top manager. I know that, but I just think he will, I like him and like what I see”.
 
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joso157

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How about we scrap these ridiculous excuses and rate the manager from day 1? Not after 5 transfer windows, not after he got his 25 players but game by game, how every single club in the world apart from us does. Good managers have immediate impact, we are the only ones inventing stupid excuses.
Not having that at all, that's complete garbage. Give me one manager in the history of football who's walked into a team in our current state or the state we were in before Jose was fired and made them title contenders in the first season......managers have styles, favoured ways of playing, favoured coaches, favoured personnel, loads of things which more often than not take more than a few months to implement. Klopp is a fine example, they finished 8th in his first season, when they had finished 6th the season before, now look at them. Would you have sacked him? Guardiola, city flat lined in his first season....would you sack him?
 
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Not having that at all, that's complete garbage. Give me one manager in the history of football who's walked into a team in our current state or the state we were in before Jose was fired and made them title contenders in the first season......managers have styles, favoured ways of playing, favoured coaches, favoured personnel, loads of things which more often than not take more than a few months to implement. Klopp is a fine example, they finished 8th in his first season, when they had finished 6th the season before, now look at them. Would you have sacked him? Guardiola, city flat lined in his first season....would you sack him?
Klopp didn’t take a side from 6th to 8th in his first season man, he took over a side in 14th was it? Mid-season.

He finished 4th with a massive win percentage in his first full season, at New Year a title challenge even looked on the cards.

And for the final time, no fecker expects a manager to come in and mount a title challenge in one year. What we do expect is not to be 4 points ahead of Burnley & Newcastle after 24 games.
 

Leftback99

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Well this latest excuse that anyone would sacked after 11 games and that those 11 games somehow prove that Poch couldn’t come in and turn things around is so silly it’s untrue. No-one @Leftback99 is fecking arguing that anyone could turn this shit show around in 11 games.

Yet then when you take the same manager to 24 games, where Ole is now, said manager had spent miles less than Ole (48m € in total, just 4m € NET) with an inferior team and had them massively outperforming Ole.
All these excuses or whataboutisms are jist nonsensical.

There’s one reason for wanting Ole to stay and it has nothing to do with Klopp or Poch or Fergie, it’s: I like him and have blind faith in the man

At least just fecking admit it. I’d have respect for the Ole crazies in here if they simply said “I have no prior examples of a manager doing what I’m hoping Ole can do, there’s nowhere in football at the top top end where a guy has come in with this poor a CV, started this poorly for 13 months and turned it around to become a top manager. I know that, but I just think he will, I like him and like what I see”.
It was a tongue in cheek comment to a post about how we should judge a manager on results from day 1 which seems to have triggered you. If we did that to the same standard you all judge Ole (with no 'excuses' allowed) we'd have been wanting Poch sacked.

Keep telling yourself he had an inferior team and that net spend means everything, recruitment was all down to him and that he'd definitely repeat the trick here. I'm confident he or anyone will fail like the others under an unchanged regime without significant investment.

You won't find a single post from me where I've said I think Ole is a good manager by the way. Or that Poch isn't a good manager (overrated maybe). You'll find pre season posts where I predicted we'd be 6th with this squad (excuses) and that Leicester, Wolves (and Everton) would be close challengers. But keep calling me a crazy cultist or whatever and 'showing me up', you know better.
 

joso157

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Klopp didn’t take a side from 6th to 8th in his first season man, he took over a side in 14th was it? Mid-season.

He finished 4th with a massive win percentage in his first full season, at New Year a title challenge even looked on the cards.

And for the final time, no fecker expects a manager to come in and mount a title challenge in one year. What we do expect is not to be 4 points ahead of Burnley & Newcastle after 24 games.
that guy clearly does....so we sack Ole, who do you get and how long would you give them?
 

dove

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Not having that at all, that's complete garbage. Give me one manager in the history of football who's walked into a team in our current state or the state we were in before Jose was fired and made them title contenders in the first season......managers have styles, favoured ways of playing, favoured coaches, favoured personnel, loads of things which more often than not take more than a few months to implement. Klopp is a fine example, they finished 8th in his first season, when they had finished 6th the season before, now look at them. Would you have sacked him? Guardiola, city flat lined in his first season....would you sack him?
Who the feck is asking to make us title contenders in the first season :lol: Our expectations for this club are non existent but for feck sakes is it to much to ask that a manager would do a decent job and not make team a lot worse than a season before? Gradual improvement is what I want, not falling off the cliff like with Ole.
 

dove

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that guy clearly does....so we sack Ole, who do you get and how long would you give them?
:lol: Expecting manager to not be inept and do a decent job means title challenge in the first year to you. Well done you genius :lol:
 

Snow

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I don't have the confidence that a new manager will win us the league again. A new manager would do better than Ole hopefully but mostly on par with Mourinho. We need other teams to get worse first because I don't have faith in the tops making the correct decisions.
 
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so we sack Ole, who do you get and how long would you give them?
That’s the thing, there’s no set amount of time a manager should be given, except that I’d argue strongly he needs a minimum of 6 months and a Summer window. So a manager who start his job on June 1st should be at least given till mid December unless he loses like the first 15 games on the bounce but that's just common sense. After that, well if he’s made you much worse or in Ole’s case for example actually driven you off a cliff, you get rid.
If he’s improved you, you keep him. It should always be an ongoing thing.

You’d obviously be smart to give a little more leeway to guys who’s proven already they are the best in the business, but just a little, they still need to prove they can still do it.
 
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jeff gurr

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I’m not so sure that any Manager can return United to contender status without a competent recruitment team in place. Overpaying for players and then overpaying the players does not make a healthy environment for growth,
 

eire-red

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It all keeps coming back to the issue of a Director of Football, doesn't it? I mean Ole clearly isn't the man for the job. We can make excuses, Rashford injured, Pobga, McTominay injured, but even with these issues, some of the performances have been terrible.

The primary worry here is the issue of continuity. Are we starting again if we hire a new manager? Is it going to be the same drivel ; needs time, 2/3 transfer windows etc. This can't be how a top club is run. We can't hit the 'reset' button every couple of seasons, but we can't use this as an excuse to stick with Ole, it's too much of a gamble with our recent results.

The worst part about this feeling is our next games (apart from Tranmere) are Wolves, City, Chelsea, not exactly games to lift the mood around the club. It looks like there's more clouds ahead, and we desperately need the mid season break to recoup and hopefully get some players back.

I really do feel for Ole. He's right when he says there is no quick fix. But he just isn't the one to bring us out if this mess, I've felt it all along. Hiring him was an emotional decision, and often emotion-driven decisions are bad ones. All this "he knows the club, a Manchester United man", it means nothing. Steve Bruce knows the club, so does Mark Hughes. Both have more reputable CV's than Ole, does anyone want them in charge?

6 years of bad decisions have brought us to this point. But as much as you have to view our situation as a whole, you also have to look at the results on the pitch. Ole is a likeable guy, it's no wonder the narrative has changed to "the club is rotten, run badly etc etc" rather than when Mourinho was being slated for much better results than we are seeing now. But that can't absolve the manager of failing to deliver on the pitch. He has to go.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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What has fecked us up over the years has been appointing the wrong managers and terrible recruitment and planning. All these three factors go hand in hand.

Ole might be getting the recruitment and planning right to people but the fact that he is not a good coach is what will stop us from ever going far. Do you think this Liverpool team will be unbeaten and have won the champions league under Moyes or a coach from league 2? You think Inter would have been challenging for the Serie a with a coach from Serie C? Chelsea sacked Di Matteo because even though he won them the Champions league he just wasn't a good coach. Period.

When it comes to a rebuild, good coaches are absolutely essential. I'm not demanding Ole should win a trophy now but if you don't see him winning anything in the future 3-5 years from now, I'm talking about champions league, league titles, then what's the point of keeping him.

What are the excuses for not sacking Ole if we know he's not good enough and we can do better? Because he's recruiting well? He can get all the good players but so far he is not good enough there is no point in keeping him. It's as simple as that. He's not the only coach that knows how to recruit or plan anyways.

Then there is the notion flying around that no coach can succeed under the Glazers and Woodward which baffles me. I'm all for getting a DOF but if the current management ends up staying what happens? We should stick with mediocrity and not hire a good coach. Some then say we shouldn't sack him because we will be going through a rebuild once more but it's not like Ole has replaced the entire 11. There is no better time to sack him than now where his work has been minimal. Finding a good coach that can work with our current squad would also not make it another rebuild.

Three factors we have to get right to get back to the top : A good manager, good recruitment, and long term planning. One factor cannot live without the other if we aim for the top. Fergie had all these factors in him and that is why we dominated. A DOF can do all this but we might not get one. So let's get the closest manager that has these three factors and I'm absolutely certain we will make progress
 

noodlehair

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As for Mourinho, one Summer we said no, before that the club gave him pretty much everything his heart desired.
Zlatan, Pogba, Lindelöf, Bailly, Mikhi, Matic... all Mourinho.

LVG... Blind, Rojo cause the pleb absolutely HAD to have a left footed CB, ADM because he desperately wanted him, Depay, Schweinsteiger for fecks sake. Tell me @noodlehair, which of the follwing did LVG not want that so imbalanced his squad?

Shaw? Herrera? ADM? Blind? Rojo?

I’ll give you Herrera, he seemed scouted by the club and already in place to just get a green light from LvG. And Falcao which was a loan signing that involved zero risk and that LVG himself green lighted so he could shift Chicarito and Wellbeck who he seemed to absolute detest.
According to what both Jose and LVG have said, they did not pick the players for the most part. They gave a profile of player they wanted and then Woodward and his one scout would go and get the players. In the case of LVG, they also signed players he never asked for. In the case of Jose, they also eventually ignored the types of players he asked for and signed completely different ones, whilst at the same time keeping him as manager, despite delioberately doing pretty much the opposite of what he was asking.

"seemed to absolutely detest" is a stretch. I've heard from fairly reliable sources that LVG never wanted to sell Welbeck, told Welbeck as much, only for Woodward to then tell Welbeck's agent to find him a new club. Was LVG responsible for us getting Falcao? I'm not fan of Van Gaal but even he isn't bonkers enough to sign about 8 players and then literally the day after the transfer window, moan about his squad being imbalanced and insinuate it wasn't his fault, when actually it was all his own decisions. This isn't behaviour he has shown in any other job as far as I'm aware.

Remember when LVG stopped picking De Gea because the club basically decided they were going to sell him, but didn't replace him, and then didn't sell him, but in the mean time we weren't able to play him because the club wouldn't decide what to do? IS this a helpful way of allowing a manager to do his job?
Remember when he wanted Mane and the club didn't sign him for reasons that no one has been able to explain?
Remember when only weeks into taking the job Jose was being forced to moan about the club organising a pre-season tour that made it impossible for him to get his players ready for the season?
Remember when he kept saying we needed better centrebacks and then we ignored him and signed Fred?
Remember when we signed Fellaini on transfer deadline day for about £5m more than his buyout clause?
Remember when we paid a record transfer fee for Mata despite getting him from a club who were desperate to sell him? And then our manager admitted a few days later he had no idea where to even play Mata?
Remember when we did the same thing again with Di Maria only months later?
Remember when we left it until deadline day to try and sign a left back despite wanting one all summer, then fumbled around and didn't sign one?
Remember when we signed Herrera a year late and after we'd sacked the manager who wee were signing him for, because again for some unknown reason we left trying to sign him until deadline day?
Remember when Woodward decided to waste all summer pretending to both the fans and our manager that we were signing Fabregas for some reason?
Remember when we didn't sign Maguire because he was too expensive, then signed him a year later for more than the price that was apparently too expensive?
Remember right now when we're doing the exact same thing with Fernandes?
Remember when Woodward wasted the summer meeting with Real Madrid and trying to sign Varane, despite the Real president giving interviews where he was openly taking the piss out of Woodward for being that fecking stupid?
Remember when in Jose's last season we had about 10 players in the last year of their contracts because Woodward hadn't bothered to renew any of them, and players like Pogba and Lukaku also wanting to leave, and other players who we needed to move on, meaning that when we appointed Ole he had no chance of building a team for this season unless we literally signed about 12 new players?

Have you thought/realised that maybe the reason we keep letting our players run their contracts down, is because Woodward decided to pay them all too much, and now has to try and get them all to take pay cuts to save his own face, meaning we're going to be stuck in this situation of trying to build a team while our CEO is fecking about with our current players contracts and morale, for another 3-4 years yet, until it balances out?

Do you think these things don't significantly impede a manager from being able to do their job properly? Do you think that for some reason all of the above is the fault of the managers rather than Woodward? And if so, would you not have to concede that Woodward is in fact responsible for who the manager is anyway, and would you therefore trust him to pick and correctly support a new one?

How about Jose claiming that one of the big problems here was the club not allowing him to manage or have authority over his own players, giving specific examples of where he wasn't able to instill the correct discipline because certain players were effectively considered more important than him? Do you think he was just making this up?

There is an awful, awful lot there to ignore or dismiss, in order to believe that just changing the manager will solve the club's problems or bring about significant improvement. To me it seems akin to having multiple serious health problems and thinking you'll get better if you just change your GP and then carry on ignoring what they tell you.
 

Revaulx

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"seemed to absolutely detest" is a stretch. I've heard from fairly reliable sources that LVG never wanted to sell Welbeck, told Welbeck as much, only for Woodward to then tell Welbeck's agent to find him a new club.
I don’t think there’s any doubt that LvG really didn’t rate Chicarito; he sent him on loan as soon as he could and on his return only seemed to play him to prove that he was no good.

Welbeck on the other hand was a key player in LvG’s first pre-season. As far as I can remember he was pretty much an ever present and while, being Welbeck, he didn’t score a lot he gave defenders no end of trouble. There’s no way LvG would have played him so much if he hadn’t rated him at all. I was really surprised when it was announced that he’d been sold; not so much because I was a big fan, but because he seemed to have an important part in the manager’s plans.

I really enjoy Regulus‘ posts, but remain unconvinced that Woodward doesn’t get involved in deciding who we sign. If I were an agent trying to find my player a new home, I’d definitely give Ed a call and explain why it would be a good idea for United to sign him.
 

noodlehair

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I don’t think there’s any doubt that LvG really didn’t rate Chicarito; he sent him on loan as soon as he could and on his return only seemed to play him to prove that he was no good.

Welbeck on the other hand was a key player in LvG’s first pre-season. As far as I can remember he was pretty much an ever present and while, being Welbeck, he didn’t score a lot he gave defenders no end of trouble. There’s no way LvG would have played him so much if he hadn’t rated him at all. I was really surprised when it was announced that he’d been sold; not so much because I was a big fan, but because he seemed to have an important part in the manager’s plans.

I really enjoy Regulus‘ posts, but remain unconvinced that Woodward doesn’t get involved in deciding who we sign. If I were an agent trying to find my player a new home, I’d definitely give Ed a call and explain why it would be a good idea for United to sign him.
Yeah it was pretty obvious he either didn't rate Chicharito or didn't see him as part of his plans. I'm not sure he'd play him just to prove he was no good. There'd be no reason to do this. I do remember Chicharito missing a penalty on pre-season and LVG having a look on his face like he'd almost just given up on him at that point.

There's not a chance in hell Woodward doesn't beat to his own drum when it comes to who we sign. He has admitted it in his own press releases. Like the stuff about approaching Real for players when Jose clearly never requested any such thing.

Jose even explained how it worked in one interview. He'd have a profile of player he wanted, and Woodward would sign someone based on that...and this is when Woodward WAS listening to what his manager wanted. I don't think there's anything wrong with that set up, if you substitute Woodward for someone who actually has the first clue how to identify the right player, and then also substitute Woodward for someone who actually has the first clue about how to sign them without making a pigs ear of it. And also substitute Woodward for someone who wont get bored and just start completely ignoring what the manager asks for...and also substitute Woodward for someone who will actually pick a manager they can work with to an actual plan.

I don't particularly hate Woodward, but all the evidence (and there is a lot of it) suggests he is pretty much a glorified car salesman pretending to know how to run the football side of a football club. I mean surely most clubs have an entire team of actual experts doing the job Woodward seems to do on his own.
 

SweetRightFoot

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If we sack Ole, it gives the Glazers another 2 year window to pick another manager, back him a bit in the market without giving him the resources of his peers at other clubs, possibly push some shirt-sale-signings onto him that don't seem to fit his philosophy and ultimately escape criticism themselves while fans turn on the manager again.
 

Krieger

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According to what both Jose and LVG have said, they did not pick the players for the most part. They gave a profile of player they wanted and then Woodward and his one scout would go and get the players. In the case of LVG, they also signed players he never asked for. In the case of Jose, they also eventually ignored the types of players he asked for and signed completely different ones, whilst at the same time keeping him as manager, despite delioberately doing pretty much the opposite of what he was asking.
It's fairly obvious though that Moyes, van Gaal and Mourinho were able to pick certain players, it was not always just about a certain profile. Often they had specific names in mind. And sometimes the players they wanted were simply unattainable.

Moyes specifically asked for Fabregas, Bale, Ronaldo, Fellaini, and Baines, in the end he got Fellaini. The mistake here is that Woodward gave too much power to the manger and there was no sporting director or some form of transfer/recruitment committee in place to find players for the manager. But our club thought it could still give managers the SAF role of doing everything.

Van Gaal specifially asked for Neymar, Robben, Hummels, Vermaelen, Rojo, Blind, Memphis, Valdes, Schweinsteiger Mane, and Romero, and got some of them. An here example of giving too much power to the manager is Rojo. Van Gaal craved a left footed CB. So much so he spent months of trying to integrate an awful Tyler Blackett into the side. According to Andy Mitten the club tried first for Hummels but Dortmund had no interest in selling and Hummels didn't want to move. Then van Gaal asked for Thomas Vermaelen instead. Arsenal only wanted to do business if they got Smalling in return. The club backed of that deal right away. Knowing van Gaal's obsession with left footed CB's I would guess van Gaal would have been fine with swapping them. Then we end up signing Rojo on van Gaal's recommendation. Rojo had caught van Gaal's eye during the world cup.

Mourinho asked for Zlatan, Pogba, Lindelöf, Matic, Lukaku, Perisic, Willian, Maguire and Dalot and got most of them. The club did spend a lot of time to get a deal with Inter to sign Perisic but Inter wanted an obscene amount and wanted Martial on loan in return as well. It's quite understandable that the club backed out of that deal. Again, the mistake is not to have a sporting director in place to find players at a good age who don't cost an arm and a leg. Also it was under Mourinho where the policy of giving the manager too much power with regards transfers seemed shift. In the first two years the club spent a lot of money to give him most of the players he asked for and then he failed to get the best out of them. After all, as he is the coach, it's his job to coach the players during training and manage the team on match days. That's got nothing to do with Woodward or the board. Also, the fact that Fred was probably signed on scouting recommendation and Mourinho's insistence on signing a CB was put aside would point to that. Mourinho really should have been fired after the 17/18 season (although I didn't think so at the time, but hindsight is 20/20) and the club should have moved into a different direction. Woodward made a big mistake in keeping him at the club for the incoming season.

Remember when LVG stopped picking De Gea because the club basically decided they were going to sell him, but didn't replace him, and then didn't sell him, but in the mean time we weren't able to play him because the club wouldn't decide what to do? IS this a helpful way of allowing a manager to do his job?
As far as I know van Gaal wanted to keep de Gea at all costs and we did exactly that. De Gea didn't feel the right mindset to play so van Gaal dropped him while the window was still open. These kinds of thing have happened at other clubs, not just ours. It's a bad/tricky situation to be in but it happens.

Remember when he wanted Mane and the club didn't sign him for reasons that no one has been able to explain?
We bid 30 million pounds for Mane, which was a lot of money back then, especially for someone who had only been in the league for one year. A lot of posters on here even laughed at that amount. But Southampton weren't keen on selling so soon and Mane didn't ask to leave either, so there wasn't much we could do. Again, the mistake is not to have a sporting director in place. A director with a clear vision would have made another attempt a year later and probably managed to sign him. But we give to much power to the manager and Mourinho did not ask for Mane.

Remember when only weeks into taking the job Jose was being forced to moan about the club organising a pre-season tour that made it impossible for him to get his players ready for the season?
Another example of giving to much power to the manager. The club allowed van Gaal to organize that schedule all by himself. He didn't want to play matches during pre-season, only train, so he asked the club to arrange only two proper pre-season matches. But then when Mourinho came in he wanted to play more matches, so asked the board to add another two matches to the schedule, which they did.

Remember when he kept saying we needed better centrebacks and then we ignored him and signed Fred?
We had loads of CBs on our books but had just lost Carrick so I would argue we desperately need a midfielder first. Not much wrong with that.

Remember when we signed Fellaini on transfer deadline day for about £5m more than his buyout clause?
Again, too much power was given to the manager. Moyes has stated that he didn't want Fellaini to be his first signing at Man Utd so he asked the club not to sign him before anyone else. He wanted a big name like Ronaldo, Fabregas or Bale to be his first signing because they would be better at handling the pressure. The club shouldn't have listened to that and just sign him before his release clause expired (or not sign him all together). Also Moyes thought his mates at Everton would allow him to sign Fellaini and Baines in a two-for-one special so the club wasted a lot of time trying to broker that deal at the behest of Moyes but Everton had no interest in that obviously.

Remember when we paid a record transfer fee for Mata despite getting him from a club who were desperate to sell him? And then our manager admitted a few days later he had no idea where to even play Mata?
I do agree with this to an extent, but Mata had previously had two great years for Chelsea so it was difficult to say no that. Moyes just wasn't cut out for the job and had no idea how the get the best out of everyone.

Remember when we did the same thing again with Di Maria only months later?
Van Gaal always spoke about needing speedy creative players such as Neymar or Robben but the club gave him Di María who evidently was not on his "list" but he said that he had wanted him before at AZ so he was happy enough with it. It was clear at the time that Di María's best positions were either on the wing or on the left side in a midfield three. But van Gaal would later insist on playing him as a number 10 or as a striker. Di María was a very talented player, the club gave him a creative player and in my view it's van Gaal's should have gotten more out of him by playing him in positions that suited him better. Di María has done well under Mourinho and Ancelotti at Real Madrid and under Emery and Tuchel at PSG, the only coach he's has trouble with is van Gaal.

Remember when we left it until deadline day to try and sign a left back despite wanting one all summer, then fumbled around and didn't sign one?
Dithering Dave was given too much power and spent to much time asking for Baines. With a sporting director in place this mistake wouldn't have happened.

Remember when we signed Herrera a year late and after we'd sacked the manager who wee were signing him for, because again for some unknown reason we left trying to sign him until deadline day?
Moyes didn't want Herrera. Herrera was on a list that SAF had compiled before he retired but Moyes wanted his own targets in first. When that failed the club suggested Herrera, which Moyes was OK with. But the club made a mistake waiting so long to sign him and couldn't deal with Bilbao's difficult selling policy. It was a mistake from the club (or Woodward) to give Moyes too much power to ask for his own players. But to they did learn from that mistake (that one time at least) and signed him early on in the next window (with van Gaal being OK with it).

Remember when Woodward decided to waste all summer pretending to both the fans and our manager that we were signing Fabregas for some reason?
We did spend way to much time trying to convince Fabregas but to be fair Fabregas wasn't sure himself what he was going to do. He even spoke to Moyes on the phone a few times and it looked like for a while that a deal would be possible. But again, the mistake is not to have a sporting director in place to make decide to move on to other targets.

Remember when we didn't sign Maguire because he was too expensive, then signed him a year later for more than the price that was apparently too expensive?
At the moment it does kind of look like the club was right about that one because he hasn't lived up to his price tag and he hasn't performed much better than Smalling would have. But we give a lot of power to the manager and Solskjær really wanted Maguire so Woodward delivered him Maguire.

Remember right now when we're doing the exact same thing with Fernandes?
Nothing wrong with trying to bring the price down in my view. Sporting are asking for an insane amount of money. But we need a sporting director. Fernandes isn't the only AM in the world, I'm sure there must be AMs out there that are just as good or have more potential but wouldn't cost that much.

Remember when Woodward wasted the summer meeting with Real Madrid and trying to sign Varane, despite the Real president giving interviews where he was openly taking the piss out of Woodward for being that fecking stupid?
I don't remember us wasting a summer trying to buy Varane. I do remember us spending a long time trying to buy Ramos though, only for him to be using us to get a new bumper contract.

Remember when in Jose's last season we had about 10 players in the last year of their contracts because Woodward hadn't bothered to renew any of them, and players like Pogba and Lukaku also wanting to leave, and other players who we needed to move on, meaning that when we appointed Ole he had no chance of building a team for this season unless we literally signed about 12 new players?

Have you thought/realised that maybe the reason we keep letting our players run their contracts down, is because Woodward decided to pay them all too much, and now has to try and get them all to take pay cuts to save his own face, meaning we're going to be stuck in this situation of trying to build a team while our CEO is fecking about with our current players contracts and morale, for another 3-4 years yet, until it balances out?
This is a fair criticism on Woodward. It highlights yet again why we need a sporting director. I agree that Woodward has handled most contract issues badly, but that doesn't change the fact that he has given managers too much power with regards to transfers over the years.

Do you think these things don't significantly impede a manager from being able to do their job properly? Do you think that for some reason all of the above is the fault of the managers rather than Woodward? And if so, would you not have to concede that Woodward is in fact responsible for who the manager is anyway, and would you therefore trust him to pick and correctly support a new one?

How about Jose claiming that one of the big problems here was the club not allowing him to manage or have authority over his own players, giving specific examples of where he wasn't able to instill the correct discipline because certain players were effectively considered more important than him? Do you think he was just making this up?

There is an awful, awful lot there to ignore or dismiss, in order to believe that just changing the manager will solve the club's problems or bring about significant improvement. To me it seems akin to having multiple serious health problems and thinking you'll get better if you just change your GP and then carry on ignoring what they tell you.
My main gripe with Woodward is that he hasn't hired a sporting director and has no clear vision for the football club, so he hires managers on the fly who turn out to be incompetent. Moyes (although not Woodwards pick) and Solskjær arent' good enough for top level and van Gaal and Mourinho are football dinosaurs. But despite this he gave them too much power. Incompetent people like that shouldn't have been given so much power. Their main jobs should be to coach and let a sporting director (or some form of committee) handle transfers and contracts.

We are a badly run football club, a lot needs to be changed. But if the Glazers and/or Woodward aren't going to change anything upstairs, I still think that we would to a lot better under a competent coach. We probably wouldn't win or compete for the title and cups every year and would have ups and downs, but I would expect a good coach to get us to play half decent football in most matches, because we have some good players in the squad. And a good coach would be able to get the best out of most of them.

Also, could you perhaps provide a link to the part that I bolded? Not that I'm doubting you, I just don't remember reading anything like that and it would be good to see what he said exactly.
 
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Lee565

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There is proof that with a somewhat decent coach at the club we can get somewhere, if Mourinho was a normal manager that didnt implode in his third season with nearly every club he works for we would have been heading in a steady direction but he's not even that good anymore as he is showing at spurs.

We haven't picked good managers but what has really done the damage is that we've been jumping from one style/method to another that relies on different types of players.

This is what highlights how little Woodward knows about football when he couldn't see this very issue when he was choosing managers.