Sir Alex, David Gill and Bryan Robson have been brought in to advise Richard Arnold on a wide range of club matters

[jm99]

It’s impossible to say what might have happened if managers were kept on instead of being sacked but if you sack someone and your fortunes improve then it’s not really a mistake. Or is it?

That's my point, the difference between ruthless and clueless is only evident in hindsight. If we don't make the CL and ten hag stays, then we don't make it next year, it's a mistake to keep him on, but if we improve massively next year then it's the right move.

 

[OrcaFat]

That's my point, the difference between ruthless and clueless is only evident in hindsight. If we don't make the CL and ten hag stays, then we don't make it next year, it's a mistake to keep him on, but if we improve massively next year then it's the right move.

Yes, I agree.

Some clubs are trigger happy and it works out sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t, but that’s the way they like to operate. On the whole, I prefer not to change managers every couple of years but that might be different if the whole club was structured and operating well (whatever that means).

 

[jm99]

Yes, I agree.

Some clubs are trigger happy and it works out sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t, but that’s the way they like to operate. On the whole, I prefer not to change managers every couple of years but that might be different if the whole club was structured and operating well (whatever that means).

Tbh I agree, modern football dictates an approach that rarely allows for long term managers because it really isn't practical. Player costs are so high that doing what we've done, having to bring in totally different players to fit the managers philosophy every time we change is extremely costly. We'd be much better having recruitment set up with a view towards the long term, managers treated as custodians, they certainly have an input towards the players but we don't bring in players that are useless outside of certain playstyles, it would also be a look towards changing managerial recruitment, building a squad and bringing in managers who can get the best out of those players, that seems to be ther way Madrid and Bayern operate and they're certainly the two best run clubs in Europe in my opinion

 

[OrcaFat]

Tbh I agree, modern football dictates an approach that rarely allows for long term managers because it really isn't practical. Player costs are so high that doing what we've done, having to bring in totally different players to fit the managers philosophy every time we change is extremely costly. We'd be much better having recruitment set up with a view towards the long term, managers treated as custodians, they certainly have an input towards the players but we don't bring in players that are useless outside of certain playstyles, it would also be a look towards changing managerial recruitment, building a squad and bringing in managers who can get the best out of those players, that seems to be ther way Madrid and Bayern operate and they're certainly the two best run clubs in Europe in my opinion

Yeah, in this day and age, it’s the guys above the manager as much as the manager himself that you need to get right.

I personally like to have a personality at the club who can give that sense of identity and continuity. In the old days that would be the manager; there’s still Pep and Klopp fulfilling that ideal but they are a dying breed.

 

[I’m loving my life]

That difference is usually only evident in hindsight. Were real Madrid useless or clueless when they sacked benitez after 7 months, they were 3rd in the league 4 points off top and had qualified to the last 16 of the champions league, people on here would have said that was harsh, but they won 3 champions leagues in a row as a result, so ruthless or clueless?

It was Benitez

Sacking him is always justified.

The fact they won 3 champions league shows that he was exerting the same effects as Kryptonite on Superman in Superman 3. Get rid of the FSW, and you will fly.

 

[jm99]

It was Benitez

Sacking him is always justified.

The fact they won 3 champions league shows that he was exerting the same effects as Kryptonite on Superman in Superman 3. Get rid of the FSW, and you will fly.

But the same thing applies to us, after solskjaer's initial run as caretaker, I was appalled when we gave him a permanent contract and wanted rid in the summer, but was told this was rash and he needed more time, well 3 years and 440m pounds later we were no better off and if we'd replaced him that summer we'd have been better for it

 

[I’m loving my life]

But the same thing applies to us, after solskjaer's initial run as caretaker, I was appalled when we gave him a permanent contract and wanted rid in the summer, but was told this was rash and he needed more time, well 3 years and 440m pounds later we were no better off and if we'd replaced him that summer we'd have been better for it

Absolutely.

Imagine what we could have achieved with a decent manager at that point

 

[DutchSerb]

Yes, I agree.

Some clubs are trigger happy and it works out sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t, but that’s the way they like to operate. On the whole, I prefer not to change managers every couple of years but that might be different if the whole club was structured and operating well (whatever that means).

If we're not going to show patience, at least replace the manager with someone with a similar vision. The only thing I truly hate about this club is the fact that picking a new manager almost feels like spinning a wheel at random. Manager A buys players who fit his playstyle, which is totally opposite of what Manager B wants when be replaces Manager A. Now B is stuck with a messed up squad that doesn't work for what he wants to do. Not saying we shouldn't have went with ETH, I love the decision to pursue a more modern approach to the game, but if we were ever to replace him, we need to bring someone in who fits that playstyle. I like this about Ajax and Barcelona. Maybe Arsenal to a lesser degree although they made a mistake with Emery. These clubs have a philosophy and their managerial decisions are based off of that philosophy.

 

[OrcaFat]

If we're not going to show patience, at least replace the manager with someone with a similar vision. The only thing I truly hate about this club is the fact that picking a new manager almost feels like spinning a wheel at random. Manager A buys players who fit his playstyle, which is totally opposite of what Manager B wants when be replaces Manager A. Now B is stuck with a messed up squad that doesn't work for what he wants to do. Not saying we shouldn't have went with ETH, I love the decision to pursue a more modern approach to the game, but if we were ever to replace him, we need to bring someone in who fits that playstyle. I like this about Ajax and Barcelona. Maybe Arsenal to a lesser degree although they made a mistake with Emery. These clubs have a philosophy and their managerial decisions are based off of that philosophy.

Yeah I pretty much agree. I’m not sure whether too much is made of “style” as a key factor. Maybe not, I don’t really know. But most quality players should be able to adapt and the real underlying problem is the quality of the players (or lack of quality). The problem of manager A buying players who won’t suit manager B is, perhaps, as simple as manager A accidentally buying players who aren’t very good. Just a thought.

 

[DutchSerb]

Yeah I pretty much agree. I’m not sure whether too much is made of “style” as a key factor. Maybe not, I don’t really know. But most quality players should be able to adapt and the real underlying problem is the quality of the players (or lack of quality). The problem of manager A buying players who won’t suit manager B is, perhaps, as simple as manager A accidentally buying players who aren’t very good. Just a thought.

True as well although in some cases it feels like manager A values certain strengths over technicality and skill, like Mourinho buying only 1.90cm+ behemoths, Louis being the complete opposite and Ole with Maguire and AWB who are good defenders in a low block but can't play up high nor with the ball in their feet, although AWB has had some sort of redemption arc at least. They all bought the players that (sort of) fit their style of play though so at the time it wasn't necessarily a bad signing but they are when you swap managers every 1.5-2 years. You're right about the quality of the players, absolutely. It's not a coincidence that the worst players in the team are the ones that are failing to adapt to a more demanding playstyle.

 

[OrcaFat]

True as well although in some cases it feels like manager A values certain strengths over technicality and skill, like Mourinho buying only 1.90cm+ behemoths, Louis being the complete opposite and Ole with Maguire and AWB who are good defenders in a low block but can't play up high nor with the ball in their feet, although AWB has had some sort of redemption arc at least. They all bought the players that (sort of) fit their style of play though so at the time it wasn't necessarily a bad signing but they are when you swap managers every 1.5-2 years. You're right about the quality of the players, absolutely. It's not a coincidence that the worst players in the team are the ones that are failing to adapt to a more demanding playstyle.

Yeah good points there.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Maybe we shouldn't read too much into it but I did find it interesting that SAF and David Gill were sitting front and centre next to Avram Glazer at Wembley. Richard Arnold was sitting behind them.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

That's my point, the difference between ruthless and clueless is only evident in hindsight. If we don't make the CL and ten hag stays, then we don't make it next year, it's a mistake to keep him on, but if we improve massively next year then it's the right move.

Not necessarily. There's a lot more to how the club is run than just the manager. For instance, what if our rivals all improve this summer but we don't make the right moves in the transfer market and end up falling behind as a result? Would be hard to blame ETH for that.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

It's nice to have a CEO/chief executive again that isn't interested in playing football manager and allows the football people under him to make all the football decisions. Looks like the advice SAF and Gill have given Arnold since he took the job is paying off. The club is finally moving smarter.