So Jose Was Right?

[Bluelion7]

Mourihno single-handedly drove out Kevin De Bruyne from Chelsea. Swore not to forgive him for that when it happened, and I still don’t forgive him for that to this dayHe considered Salah worthless.

In fact, he generally dislikes “technically gifted” players, and embraces players who are complete cnuts like they were his sons (looking at you JT, Eric Dier).

He actively encouraged the veteran players to mentally abuse younger players and academy players because he thought the hazing would make them mentally tougher.

It doesn’t take a genius to notice Shaw is fat and lazy.

Jose can do real damage to a squads roster, especially the younger players. Heck, Rashford and Martial may have failed to develop BECAUSE they were under Jose at a crucial point in their careers. He can be that toxic.

 

[lex talionis]

Every few days I come across this thread and its existence still boggles the mind. It's ludicrous to argue that "Jose was right" in terms of his management of United.

The Chelsea poster above, @Bluelion7, correctly notes the toxic poison Jose injected into the club and he did exactly the same thing at Old Trafford. He bought the wrong players, employed negative tactics, publicly abused his own players and was just generally a miserable feck who lived in a hotel.

 

[Sky1981]

In terms of players power it has been brewing since the days of David Moyes.

Players like Rio etc should have handled themselves better. The play like Jagielka comment was too harsh on Moyes. He simply meant that he wants rio to play in certain ways. Not asking him to learn from Jagielka. The leaking of chips banning. Trolling him with 82 cross Fulham style which is clearly them taking the piss.

It doesnt get better with LVG with Giggs having a mutiny near the end of his tenure as if to show he's on the player's side. I remember him storming to the sideline barking instructions near the end. I don't even think LVG told him to

Jose tried to reign the stallion with his iron approach. But alas his reputations preceded him and the power struggle intensified near the end with half the squad clearly downing tool.

Ole was the emperors with new cloth who's simply riding the "feck you mou" new manager bounce.

Ralph was clearly spited by the whole team it's not even subtle. They stopped playing for him.

ETH ... We shall see.. if he brings enough new players to make it his cliques then he might survive and the deadwoods would be culled. But otherwise... They'd had him sooner or later. These deadwoods arent thingking or turning corner, they're just buying their time with new slate and another contract extension

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

I guess Jose did have a point after all.

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[mitchmouse]

I guess Jose did have a point after all.

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no coincidence that we look so much better without him around. Was never a fan and questioned bringing him back on day one

 

[GueRed]

Jose was 100% right regarding Pogba.

Shame the club never backed him and like the fanbase sided with the player towards the end.

There were many red flags regarding Pogba but of course typically a lot of fans brushed them aside..
some even still advocated him to be captain!

Ole should've got shot of Pogba in 2019 when the player wanted out. Around the same time I wanted him out too..It just never worked out.

Scandalous the player stayed on for THREE more years.

 

[Maticmaker]

Jose was 100% right regarding Pogba.

I think its worth mentioning that it was Fergie that was right about him... first?

SAF had watched Pogba develop his skills at OT from being a 16 year old and in the end his judgement that there was something not quite 'wired properly' in Pogba's temperament and he wasn't worth what his agent was asking, which was what led to Pogba leaving United in the first place.

 

[redIndianDevil]

FFS. Jose fanboys never really go away do they?

 

[roonster09]

Ffs these Jose fan boys and their "Jose was right" nonsense

 

[GueRed]

rattled pogba fanboys still cant get over the fact history has proven Jose was right about their starboy

 

[andersj]

rattled pogba fanboys still cant get over the fact history has proven Jose was right about their starboy

Mourinho was right? He was the one in charge when the club paid £80 mill for the player in 2016? What does that equal today? £150 mill?

 

[Red4Ever]

Mourinho bought Pogba for utd (edit; snap)

 

[roonster09]

Mourinho was right? He was the one in charge when the club paid £80 mill for the player in 2016? What does that equal today? £150 mill?

After failing to sign him when jose was at Chelsea.

 

[Revaulx]

I think its worth mentioning that it was Fergie that was right about him... first?

SAF had watched Pogba develop his skills at OT from being a 16 year old and in the end his judgement that there was something not quite 'wired properly' in Pogba's temperament and he wasn't worth what his agent was asking, which was what led to Pogba leaving United in the first place.

Can you point to a source?

SAF has never made a secret of his dislike for Raiola, but I’ve never seen reports of any issues with Pogba himself.

That said, I’m not convinced that Raiola was the right agent to handle his career. His antics were perfect for the likes of Zlatan, but Pogba could have done with someone more paternalistic.

 

[JPRouve]

The obsession with Pogba is disturbing. These weirdos were telling everyone that they wanted Pogba out due to the supposed circus and that they wouldn't miss him but here we are with the same people seemingly dreaming about Pogba every nights. They know more about his current life than anyone else.

 

[FrankDrebin]

We dont actually know Jose's views on Pogba.

 

[SalfordRed18]

no coincidence that we look so much better without him around. Was never a fan and questioned bringing him back on day one

Yep, nothing to do with a completely different midfield and style of play, new manager etc. It's because pogba isn't here, obviously.

He doesn't play for United anymore, you're not winning internet points for saying mourinho was right. It's debatable he was right about pogba and even if he was, a broken clock is right twice a day. Neither of them are at United anymore, let it go.

 

[Revaulx]

Mourinho was right? He was the one in charge when the club paid £80 mill for the player in 2016? What does that equal today? £150 mill?

I’ve always felt that the Pogba signing was driven by Ed Woodward, who would have allowed himself to be persuaded by Raiola that he’d be righting a historic wrong brought about by SAF for “letting Pogba go”. It’s the sort of narrative that would really appeal to him (see also: Ronaldo).

But yes, I’m not aware that Jose queried the wisdom of the signing or stood in its way. Presumably he knew it was in the pipeline when he accepted the job? I can’t imagine it would have been a quick process.

 

[andersj]

I’ve always felt that the Pogba signing was driven by Ed Woodward, who would have allowed himself to be persuaded by Raiola that he’d be righting a historic wrong brought about by SAF for “letting Pogba go”. It’s the sort of narrative that would really appeal to him (see also: Ronaldo).

But yes, I’m not aware that Jose queried the wisdom of the signing or stood in its way. Presumably he knew it was in the pipeline when he accepted the job? I can’t imagine it would have been a quick process.

Mourinho wanted him at Chelsea too.

Would Gill have been able to push Pogba on Ferguson? Would Arnold have been able to push him on EtH? I’m pretty confident that is two «no».

Furthermore, this was a type of signing we did quite a few of in Mourinhos time here. Superstars that turned out to have poor attitude. Lukaku and Sanchez two others.

 

[Mockney]

The obsession with Pogba is disturbing. These weirdos were telling everyone that they wanted Pogba out due to the supposed circus and that they wouldn't miss him but here we are with the same people seemingly dreaming about Pogba every nights. They know more about his current life than anyone else.

Agree, it’s incredibly boring. Frothing at the mouth over a player that was at worst slightly less than fine for us.

 

[Chief123]

Jose was 100% right regarding Pogba.

Shame the club never backed him and like the fanbase sided with the player towards the end.

There were many red flags regarding Pogba but of course typically a lot of fans brushed them aside..
some even still advocated him to be captain!

Ole should've got shot of Pogba in 2019 when the player wanted out. Around the same time I wanted him out too..It just never worked out.

Scandalous the player stayed on for THREE more years.

Jose was right about Pogba.

The club was wrong about appointing Jose.

 

[Shakesy]

I'm certainly not a Pogba fanboy. Still, when we signed him it felt right. I'm very surprised to see so many in here "who always questioned the signing when made"...

 

[Tom Cato]

We dont actually know Jose's views on Pogba.

According to Ola Solbakken who plays for Roma, he last week described Jose as a kind and warm man that the players can always talk to about everything from work to private affairs.

When Jose left Inter, hardman Marco Materazzi was seen crying on Joses shoulder after the Champions League triumph. Jose would leave Inter for Real Madrid 6 days later. Javier Zanetti at the same time was full of admiration for his then manager, praising the belief they all had in him.

During the Tottenham documentary, you would sometimes see quite the soft side to Jose. The clip where he tries to speak some sense into Delle Ali in particular strikes home as a leader who tries to lead with empathy until that no longer works.

That is why its fascinating to me when players get som lambasted in public for either having poor work effort, or otherwise get thrown under the bus. Jose strikes me as a kind of guy who, if you are willing to put the work in and run until you cant run any longer, you will at least have the managers respect, if not belief in your football ability. Keep your mouth shut and do your job and there wont be any problems.

Most of Joses confrontations with players have been because the players have put up a especially poor performance, spoken out against the manager/club/tactics in interviews, or shown poor attitude. I dont recognise taking things public as good leadership at all, so that is absolutely a place where Jose falls short, even if he is right,its never right to go public with it.

Anyway, Pogba and Jose had a lot of problems at United, and they have been both documented by Pogba himself during his "Pogmentary" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-fury-ex-Man-United-boss-Jose-Mourinho-a.html - and through several key interactions such as stripping Pogba of the Vice Captaincy. All that combined and we can assume that Pauls relationship with Mourinho was poor at best.

 

[Tom Cato]

I'm certainly not a Pogba fanboy. Still, when we signed him it felt right. I'm very surprised to see so many in here "who always questioned the signing when made"...

Yeah Im sure a lot of Redcafe savants questioned signing one of the biggest midfielder talents in world football for his footballing ability. If they did it had everything to do with him snubbing the club and Sir Alex.

 

[FrankDrebin]

According to Ola Solbakken who plays for Roma, he last week described Jose as a kind and warm man that the players can always talk to about everything from work to private affairs.

When Jose left Inter, hardman Marco Materazzi was seen crying on Joses shoulder after the Champions League triumph. Jose would leave Inter for Real Madrid 6 days later. Javier Zanetti at the same time was full of admiration for his then manager, praising the belief they all had in him.

During the Tottenham documentary, you would sometimes see quite the soft side to Jose. The clip where he tries to speak some sense into Delle Ali in particular strikes home as a leader who tries to lead with empathy until that no longer works.

That is why its fascinating to me when players get som lambasted in public for either having poor work effort, or otherwise get thrown under the bus. Jose strikes me as a kind of guy who, if you are willing to put the work in and run until you cant run any longer, you will at least have the managers respect, if not belief in your football ability. Keep your mouth shut and do your job and there wont be any problems.

Most of Joses confrontations with players have been because the players have put up a especially poor performance, spoken out against the manager/club/tactics in interviews, or shown poor attitude. I dont recognise taking things public as good leadership at all, so that is absolutely a place where Jose falls short, even if he is right,its never right to go public with it.

Anyway, Pogba and Jose had a lot of problems at United, and they have been both documented by Pogba himself during his "Pogmentary" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-fury-ex-Man-United-boss-Jose-Mourinho-a.html - and through several key interactions such as stripping Pogba of the Vice Captaincy. All that combined and we can assume that Pauls relationship with Mourinho was poor at best.

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[Tincanalley]

Was Jose right all along is kind of an interesting historical question to muse about. You know those programmes about problem dogs; it always turns out to be the owners with the issues, not the dogs. Which is not to say that all dogs are of a sweet temprament. First off, there was a weird, unhealthy, rebellious climate in the MU dressing room when Jose arrived. My theory is that the rot set in--to a limited extent--at the end of SAF's reign. There were a few hints; The Rock of Gibraltar etc, made him look bad in the eyes of the players and people close to the club. He never quite recovered the respect after all the to-do about stuff with his son, etc. The likes of Roy Keane, who had been Ferguson's voice on the pitch up to that, was disillusioned and disappointed. Even the Wayne Rooney thing was to do with Rooney making demands about how the club be run better. This also coincided with an era of greater player power, and SAF was getting older.

But David Moyes occupancy of the role of Boss was on a whole new level. The likes of Rio, etc., had zero respect for him. Seems like once he opened his mouth he became a midget among a load of big dressing room egos. He attitude, the way he talked, the way he carried himself, and his tactics on the field were just wrong. Moyes diminished the role of Manchester United manager to comedy levels. He showed weakness and clearly felt the job was too big for him. After that, anyone who came into that dressing room was on the back foot. You can picture a classroom that's just gone crazy and all semblance of structure long gone.

Those days are over, thank goodness. But you can see how ETH had to carefully manage the Ronaldo situation. My sense about the Jose dressing room is that there was a cohort that included Lingard and PP who were too cool for school; it was one very divided, clique-ridden place. Jose didn't have the skills to fix it. So, for him, Pogba was to blame, he was a virus etc. If Pogba came into a more structured dressing room, and maybe if he was used differently in midfield, maybe he would have been more effective. Ridiculously talented as he was and is, Pogba is another sad story of wasted potential. I do reluctantly concede that SAF correctly identified early character flaws. Whether Jose was right or wrong is too simplistic and that is just to do with that particular player. Perhaps some other mentor could have ironed out some of issues to do with individual players. Perhaps there were things Jose did inside the club that helped laid the foundations for the future. I suspect LVG made a greater contribution in that sense.

 

[Revaulx]

Mourinho wanted him at Chelsea too.

Source?

Not saying you’re making it up I’ve seen it repeated a lot and it surprises me as I don’t particularly see Pogba as Jose’s type.

Would Gill have been able to push Pogba on Ferguson? Would Arnold have been able to push him on EtH? I’m pretty confident that is two «no».

There’s more than one way of looking at that. Sure, Ferguson and EtH aren’t Jose. But Gill and Arnold aren’t Woodward. I can’t see either of them foisting unwanted players on a manager.

Furthermore, this was a type of signing we did quite a few of in Mourinhos time here. Superstars that turned out to have poor attitude. Lukaku and Sanchez two others.

Woodward’s time as much as Jose’s!

I’ve yet to give up on Sancho, but it looks like he might turn out to be another. The last, with any luck.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

Was Jose right all along is kind of an interesting historical question to muse about. You know those programmes about problem dogs; it always turns out to be the owners with the issues, not the dogs. Which is not to say that all dogs are of a sweet temprament. First off, there was a weird, unhealthy, rebellious climate in the MU dressing room when Jose arrived. My theory is that the rot set in--to a limited extent--at the end of SAF's reign. There were a few hints; The Rock of Gibraltar etc, made him look bad in the eyes of the players and people close to the club. He never quite recovered the respect after all the to-do about stuff with his son, etc. The likes of Roy Keane, who had been Ferguson's voice on the pitch up to that, was disillusioned and disappointed. Even the Wayne Rooney thing was to do with Rooney making demands about how the club be run better. This also coincided with an era of greater player power, and SAF was getting older.

But David Moyes occupancy of the role of Boss was on a whole new level. The likes of Rio, etc., had zero respect for him. Seems like once he opened his mouth he became a midget among a load of big dressing room egos. He attitude, the way he talked, the way he carried himself, and his tactics on the field were just wrong. Moyes diminished the role of Manchester United manager to comedy levels. He showed weakness and clearly felt the job was too big for him. After that, anyone who came into that dressing room was on the back foot. You can picture a classroom that's just gone crazy and all semblance of structure long gone.

Those days are over, thank goodness. But you can see how ETH had to carefully manage the Ronaldo situation. My sense about the Jose dressing room is that there was a cohort that included Lingard and PP who were too cool for school; it was one very divided, clique-ridden place. Jose didn't have the skills to fix it. So, for him, Pogba was to blame, he was a virus etc. If Pogba came into a more structured dressing room, and maybe if he was used differently in midfield, maybe he would have been more effective. Ridiculously talented as he was and is, Pogba is another sad story of wasted potential. I do reluctantly concede that SAF correctly identified early character flaws. Whether Jose was right or wrong is too simplistic and that is just to do with that particular player. Perhaps some other mentor could have ironed out some of issues to do with individual players. Perhaps there were things Jose did inside the club that helped laid the foundations for the future. I suspect LVG made a greater contribution in that sense.

Things would have been far better if Mourinho managed Manchester United RIGHT AFTER Fergie's retirement. He would have come with more respect and that dressing room still full of "hard men" (Vidic, Rio, Evra, Rooney...etc) would have appealed him more than the soft type like Pogba, Lingard, Martial...etc. Things may still have gone south in his 3rd season but at least the wheel wouldn't have completely gone off like with Moyes. We lost a fair share of our "aura" and respect during that Moyes tenure too.

 

[JPRouve]

Source?

Not saying you’re making it up I’ve seen it repeated a lot and it surprises me as I don’t particularly see Pogba as Jose’s type.

The young France midfielder Pogba remains on every club’s wishlist yet his midfield talents would only enhance Mourinho’s crop. Wonderful to get someone of his calibre in; not a disaster, however, if nothing materialises. “Pogba is not to put pressure on people,” Mourinho says. “Pogba is one of the top players in the world. Pogba goes to any team and improves that team automatically. If he stays at Juventus, Juventus will be very strong again. If he goes somewhere else he will improve immediately a team. This is not our case. We are changing Cech for Begovic, we are changing Didier for Falcao and we are changing kids by other kids. I think everybody has an interest in Pogba. But there are things you can do and things you cannot do. I love the Eiffel Tower but I can’t have the Eiffel Tower in my garden. I can’t even have the Eiffel Tower of Las Vegas.”

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jul/18/chelsea-jose-mourinho-big-spending-manchester

 

[Loon]

I know this thread is a bit of a lark, but did the gobby sod actually say anything about the Glazers? Probably a gag order in his pay-off.

 

[andersj]

Source?

Not saying you’re making it up I’ve seen it repeated a lot and it surprises me as I don’t particularly see Pogba as Jose’s type.


There’s more than one way of looking at that. Sure, Ferguson and EtH aren’t Jose. But Gill and Arnold aren’t Woodward. I can’t see either of them foisting unwanted players on a manager.


Woodward’s time as much as Jose’s!

I’ve yet to give up on Sancho, but it looks like he might turn out to be another. The last, with any luck.

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...ba-for-chelsea-in-2015-says-agent-mino-raiola

If it surprised you that much, did you ever try Google? Guess Lukaku and Sanchez was not his type either. Probably not Matic, Bailly, Lindelof, Mhikitarian or Dalot either.

Just Woodward. Lets blame Woodward for everything. Anything was never Jose fault. He was always right, that little genius.

 

[Revaulx]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jul/18/chelsea-jose-mourinho-big-spending-manchester

Haha! Standard Jose from the time when he was charmingly enigmatic.

 

[MadDogg]

Source?

Not saying you’re making it up I’ve seen it repeated a lot and it surprises me as I don’t particularly see Pogba as Jose’s type.

Chelsea were massively linked to Pogba the season before we signed him back, Raiola said that Mourinho tried to sign him there, and Juve confirmed they turned down a bid (I don't think they confirmed that it was from Chelsea, but all signs were that it was).

12 months later Mourinho was with us and it was us that obviously went hard for him while I don't think Chelsea tried again. Combine that with the quotes in the link that JPRouve posted just above and it's fairly obvious that Mourinho absolutely wanted him. The idea that it was a club signing that was pushed on to him is a fairly ridiculous piece of retconning that some people try to do.

 

[JPRouve]

Haha! Standard Jose from the time when he was charmingly enigmatic.

There is nothing enigmatic about that one.

 

[roonster09]

There is nothing enigmatic about that one.

Or Charming.

 

[Tincanalley]

Things would have been far better if Mourinho managed Manchester United RIGHT AFTER Fergie's retirement. He would have come with more respect and that dressing room still full of "hard men" (Vidic, Rio, Evra, Rooney...etc) would have appealed him more than the soft type like Pogba, Lingard, Martial...etc. Things may still have gone south in his 3rd season but at least the wheel wouldn't have completely gone off like with Moyes. We lost a fair share of our "aura" and respect during that Moyes tenure too.

So true. Remember the attempt to model the team on Everton? It seems utterly mental now, how people accepted it. Signing Fellaini, and were we not looking for Baines too in 2014? Plus staff too, to replace the old SAF guard. When you listen to what Rio etc., have said publicly about the ridicule to which Moyes was subjected, can you even imagine what the reality was like behind his back in that dressing room?

 

[Tincanalley]

I know this thread is a bit of a lark, but did the gobby sod actually say anything about the Glazers? Probably a gag order in his pay-off.

I think he did, actually. I remember him as a pundit on some international duty being fairly negative, but I can't recall details.

 

[Revaulx]

https://www.skysports.com/amp/footb...ba-for-chelsea-in-2015-says-agent-mino-raiola

“Manchester is his home”. There speaks a salesman

How much say did Jose have over Chelsea signings anyway?

If it surprised you that much, did you ever try Google? Guess Lukaku and Sanchez was not his type either. Just Woodward. Lets blame Woodward for everything. Anything was never Jose fault. He was always right, that little genius.

Where have I defended Jose?

Woodward would have loved him because they’d have both been happy with that sort of galáctico signing. Just like he later bought into Ole/Phelan’s brief “young British core” fad.

When Raiola was looking for a buyer, Woodward and Jose were an obvious first port of call.

 

[Revaulx]

Chelsea were massively linked to Pogba the season before we signed him back, Raiola said that Mourinho tried to sign him there, and Juve confirmed they turned down a bid (I don't think they confirmed that it was from Chelsea, but all signs were that it was).

12 months later Mourinho was with us and it was us that obviously went hard for him while I don't think Chelsea tried again. Combine that with the quotes in the link that JPRouve posted just above and it's fairly obvious that Mourinho absolutely wanted him. The idea that it was a club signing that was pushed on to him is a fairly ridiculous piece of retconning that some people try to do.

Fair enough.

I struggled to understand those quotes, other than getting a general impression that Jose was complimenting Pogba. And just because it was a club signing doesn’t mean that Jose was opposed to it. Which was the point I was making all along.

 

[MadDogg]

Fair enough.

I struggled to understand those quotes, other than getting a general impression that Jose was complimenting Pogba. And just because it was a club signing doesn’t mean that Jose was opposed to it. Which was the point I was making all along.

Obviously Woodward wanted him, but that just made it a perfect match where both the club and the manager wanted the same player.