So what's next for Sir Gareth Southgate?

Woziak

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I did not include the 1968 Euros actually - it's a bit of an arguable case at which point in time you start treating that as a major tournament.

I totally agree there's a legitimate debate whether England would be better served by a more attacking-minded approach, and I also agree that in terms of squad quality, England is in a better place than has normally been the case historically. And I'd love to see England blow away opponents with dazzling attacking football as much as anyone. But I do think it needs to be acknowledged that there are arguments on both sides of that question, and that the results that have been achieved with the more careful style have yielded results that make a pretty good case too. It's hardly an unconventional approach to winning football tournaments, and have been used by teams more talented than England. To argue, like lots of people do, that the only thing preventing England from winning tournaments with attacking football is Southgates incompetence and cowardice is just, well, obviously stupid and ignorant.

What I'm primarily getting at though is the total lack of real perspective among many on the results Southgate have actually achieved, and also on what is reasonable to expect and demand from an England manager. Which is so out of kilter that the overall result is something absurd and really kind of sickening - a fan base so unable to recognise what they're getting (or remember what they've usually been getting) that their dominant reaction to the most high-winning manager England has had in 50 years is one of barely contained rage. The disconnect between sentiment and reality is so enormous and so obvious that I think we're actually talking about something that has a real and negative effect on England's ability to succeed. What it must be like for the players to try to perform for a fanbase with that attitude - it can't be very motivating, to say the least.
Not including the 68 Euros is like saying Uruguay never won the World Cup when 13 countries participated ? Tell Uruguayan fans this but in general I agree with your view on English fans entitlement of which I’m one as well and sometimes I’m as big a hypocrite as any other England Fan!
One day I’ll love Southgate and wear a waste coat the next I’ll swear at the TV, isn’t that why the game and the World Cup are so special?
 

nickm

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For me it should be an older guy with loads of CL experience. You can't buy or develop the players, so the primary value you can add is providing the right tactics in clutch games.
As a long term England watcher and fan, I just don't think it is that simple. We've seen very disjointed England teams. We've seen teams who couldn't control games. We've seen teams over reliant on key individuals. We've seen teams lose grip when under pressure. We've seen teams lack a way of playing. We've seen tired teams. We've seen teams with glaring technical deficiencies. England manager has to be able to address all these things in the preparations, as well as manage the tournament itself. And I think realistically the next England manager needs to be familiar with, and able to work within, the overall England structure that's been in place this last decade - and I think which has done a decent job so far of addressing many of those historic issues. That might preclude a lot of people.
 

Awakered88

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I can not stand it especially after it pushed the useless covid - Certificate of vaccination ID jab on people with his influence being england manager it has played a part in mass genocide. Jail time for life should be next for southgate
 

Judas

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I can not stand it especially after it pushed the useless covid - Certificate of vaccination ID jab on people with his influence being england manager it has played a part in mass genocide. Jail time for life should be next for southgate
Yes......thats the real reason he should go. Obviously. Gareth "mass genocide" Southgate.
 

ariveded

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Never understood why he got a new contract. Obvious, his performance would be judged by 2022 WC, and yet he gave him a 2024 contract.

I as a common guy, have to proof myself constantly at work with little contract security. While, these government institutions and big clubs happily pay millions for 1 time wonders, and also let go of them with huge compensations..
 

Wonder Pigeon

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I can not stand it especially after it pushed the useless covid - Certificate of vaccination ID jab on people with his influence being england manager it has played a part in mass genocide. Jail time for life should be next for southgate
Gareth Southgate

Southgate

5outhgate

5G

Wake up people
 

Sassy Colin

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I can not stand it especially after it pushed the useless covid - Certificate of vaccination ID jab on people with his influence being england manager it has played a part in mass genocide. Jail time for life should be next for southgate
Wait, what? :houllier: :lol: :eek:

feck, I never realised!

Gareth Southgate

Southgate

5outhgate

5G

Wake up people
 

Yakuza_devils

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Who'd be the next manager?

For me it should be an older guy with loads of CL experience. You can't buy or develop the players, so the primary value you can add is providing the right tactics in clutch games.

Ancelotti seems ideal to me.
Good shout.
 

JoaquinJoaquin

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Well said. I read that outrageous turd of an article that Ronay wrote, not sure why he thinks four funny metaphors per year means his opinion on what England should expect of their managers has been elevated to some sacrosanct status. These kinds of debates always attract the holier than thou types who, ironically and just like in that article, proceed to tell everyone else that they're the ones who are deluded. There's definitely delusion going on, will agree with that.

It's a simple game of numbers really. The population of England, combined with the wealth of the premier league, and that money filtering into the academies over time and inevitably producing some pretty strong talent, means that; no, England should not expect to win tournaments year after year, but they bloody well should be expected to challenge. Why on earth wouldn't they? I would argue that the opposite has been true, where years of mismanagement by the Old Boys FA club has led to this ingrained loser mentality via poor investment into the grassroots game and an accompanying attitude of 'well why should we think we deserve anything? We're shite, accept it and be grateful'. No, feck off. No other decent top national football side would ever put up with that and nor should we.

Southgate did a great job at the first world cup I must say (albeit what happened vs Croatia was a total prognostic of what will happen and what has happened against every top side since), he did great with a limited squad. That Euros final though was possibly most gutless display I have ever seen from a manager (well since actually Ole vs Villareal). Mancini literally took off all his star players and the midfield as they were gassed and we responded by hanging on for dear life content to sufferingly chase after the ball, at home in Wembley, slowly turning the atmosphere from something that could have been a twelfth man into the ambience of a morgue. By accounts, most of the foreign punditry of the game were left utterly baffled by GS's management in that final, because it was basically baffling. It's so bloody obvious Southgate can only take us so far, look at his prior history to England, he was lucky to be given the job in the first place. He did a great job considering, but any footballing nation with any ambition would be asking for more and be seeking a top tier manager, and so they bloody should. It's not life and death, we're not gonna exile Sir Gareth to St helens. I agree the fans should maybe be a bit kinder about it, he's obviously done his best, but in all honesty the FA won't listen without a few toys out of the pram. You look at other sports where England or GB has done well and they appointed teams with a no questions asked winning mentality, that's what we need from our football setup.

And just before some predictable numptie steps in again with 'OMG you do realise Southgate has done better than any England manager EVER!' etc. It runs into the hated logical fallacy that England + x did better than England + y or z etc. assuming that variable England is some unchanging constant, not some massively changing variable of relative squad that it obviously is. Anyone who argues like it is, is by definition imo, some sort of cretin.

I'll agree he did do well, but we can all see his progress rested on putting out glorified park the bus sides that relied on Kane or Sterling to create a bit of magic on a quick counter to win. Most reasonable fans aren't expecting to turn into 1974 Brazil with every attacking talent shoehorned in, but what should be expected is at least being able to keep some of the possession in (even top opponents) halves and attempt to control the game a bit more. Hanging on for dear life will just end in failure, this time the blow will probably come sooner than in the last two tournaments.
Great post. Basically sums up Southgate for me to.

Think this World Cup will end in disaster for England to be honest. Between Southgate, and the amount of players out of form, I wouldn't even be shocked if we got knocked out in the Group or Second Round.
 

noodlehair

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His general uselessness has been masked over by a combination of England having lucky draws, and a group of decent young and well coached (at club level) players coming into the fold.

He played for penalties in a European championship final, despite it being at Wembley, then brought on two players to miss one, one of who was a teenager...then sent an 18 year old up to take the most crucial one. He should still be phoning Sancho and Saka every day to apologise. Instead he literally slags Sancho off to the press for no reason.

If he managed a pl team he'd be sacked in half a season, either purely on results or because the players would hound him out due to knowing more about football than him.

He should also cut out the social commentary and acting like being England manager gives him power to render things like social inequality and a crisis in living standards irrelevant becsuse "we should all get behind the boys" or whatever. Maybe just concentrate on being able to recognise that playing defensively with a squad of attacking players and shite defenders makes no fecking sense.

Other than thar I think he's alright.
 
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mitchmouse

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His general uselessness has been masked over by a combination of England having lucky draws, and a group of decent young and well coached (at club level) players coming into the fold.

He played for penalties in a European championship final, despite it being at Wembley, then brought on two players to miss one, one of who was a teenager...then sent an 18 year old up to take the most crucial one. He should still be phoning Sancho and Saka every day to apologise. Instead he literally slags Sancho off to the press for no reason.

If he managed a pl team he'd be sacked in half a season, either purely on results or because the players would hound him out due to knowing more about football than him.

He should also cut out the social commentary and acting like being England manager gives him power to render things like social inequality and a crisis in living standards irrelevant becsuse "we should all get behind the boys" or whatever. Maybe just concentrate on being able to recognise that playing defensively with a squad of attacking players and shite defenders makes no fecking sense.

Other than thar I think he's alright.
I was worried for a while that United were thinking of him as a replacement for Ole... he's never convinced me despite a (small) handful of very good results