So when are we going to get off our backsides and challenge this City/Liverpool dominance of winning trophies?

Wayne's World

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Now this isn't me criticizing Ole or the players or anything but seeing Liverpool ending their 30 year title drought tonight and watching the likes of SkySports and BT wanking over them has really got me thinking about our current standing. Now tonight hurts, I'm not going to lie I think seeing Liverpool win the league is one of the things I probably wanted to avoid as much as possible in my life, it hurts and I hope the United board and Woodward (Highly unlikely that they care) and Ole and the players (bit more likely) are hurting from this. We have watched possibly the greatest Manchester City team of all time win numerous trophies, one after the other and god forbid they have a Champions League that they are still going for in August and we now seen arguably one of Liverpool's finest sides win not only a title but won a Champions League and Club World Championship in the past 12 months.

So anyways what I'm trying to ask, with the current rebuilding job happening at United. When does it become a stage when we can't keep making excuses that we are rebuilding and keep watching the likes of Liverpool and City win trophy after trophy. I totally understand that there's alot of problems with deadwood in our squad but with three or four new signings who slot into the team, I think we possibly have a team that can get to that level of where City and Liverpool are and it needs to start fast.

We are too big of a football club to watch our biggest rivals win the trophies we now crave for. I'm not saying we have to go out and win the Premier League next season or challenge for the Champions League but we really need now to start seeing progress where we can beat and challenge for trophies again. It's grand rebuilding now to bigger and better things but it's been nearly 12 months now and I do think Ole has a fair idea of what we need and hopefully he can get the players in, If not him, then someone else who can do what the likes of Klopp and Pep have to do their respective teams.
 

In Rainbows

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Get Sancho and let our young players (Rashford, Greenwood, AWB) further develop.
 

TheNewEra

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Its a big wake up call, the board needs to take a hard look at themselves and invest big every summer, regardless of what is won or not (every season needs big investments)

Every year City or Liverpool win anything is a failure in my eyes to United, not even challenging right now is much worse.

They need to spend big money on Sancho, big money on a CDM/CB and think about giving Shaw a challenge for his position by bringing in an option there.

It's definitely not good enough that Liverpool have done what they have in the last few years but United post SAF are still struggling (7 years).
 

PoTMS

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Truth is Ole isn't in the same class as Klopp and Guardiola so for as long as they are here, we will need to settle for third place at best. We need improvement in quite a few positions, even in positions we've recently strengthened in.
 
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Don't worry, Fergie's going to rise from retirement like the Undertaker and knock them off their perch once again. Can't have those feckers tying us at 20, I'm sick just at the thought :mad:
 

TheNewEra

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Truth is Ole isn't in the same class as Klopp and Guardiola so for as long as they are here, we will need to settle for third place at best. We need improvement in quite a few positions, even in positions we've recently strengthened in.
I think Klopp and Guardiola have 3 years left max, but sadly even if Ole went (which isn't on the cards) who is available in world football as good as those two?

United need stability right now, which is what Ole would give.

A DoF and stability under Ole, and good recruitment
 

PoTMS

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I think Klopp and Guardiola have 3 years left max, but sadly even if Ole went (which isn't on the cards) who is available in world football as good as those two?
Only one is close and he's available on a free.
 

Trophy Room

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It depends on how much you believe in fate imo. United and Liverpool have never been co-dominant in similar eras. Whilst one team enjoys success the other languishes in mediocrity (26, 30 years...). So another 20 years perhaps?

:wenger:
 

11reds

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Lifelong United fan. I hope we really learn from what Liverpool have done right. We have to become ruthless.

I think to be fair to Solskjaer he is putting the basis of a team together. We have to continue to buy the right players.


Heads up lads, we will have our day again.
 

adexkola

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Ole will need to step his game up. We don't have the squad of City but he'll need to make us real good at both ends of the pitch so we're good for 3 points against all but the top 4
 

Statue of Limitations

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I think there is a shift coming.

City losing several of their old guard, Silva, Fernandinho etc

Pool will probably lose Mane and they can't compete financially for Sancho, or anyone else elite like Mbappe.

We can definitely fill in the gaps this summer, don't need to go crazy either, CB, RW and some back ups and we're title competitive.

The level those 2 have had, while good aren't sustainable, they have to fall off.
 

RkkMan

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The board cannot afford to feck up again. We actually have a strong team which with the right investment can be a solid top 3 team. De Gea, Maguire, AWB, Matic, Bruno, Pogba, Rashford and Martial are all at least top 5 in the league in their respective positions and you still have fairly reliable players in Shaw/Williams/Bailly/Lindelof/Fred/McTominay who can all start in certain games, solid squad players in James/Mata and world class potential in Mason Greenwood. Add a top RW(Sancho) and a top no10 for depth(Grealish) and if we manage to sell all of Jones/Smalling/Rojo a young CB and we can close the gap on our rivals. I really really REALLY hope Woodward and the likes in charge of transfers utilize this transfer window well and the players and manager need to use this as a desire to improve next season.
For the remainder of this season we should target the Europa League if we are an ambitious club. Only 3 wins needed to win a trophy and a guaranteed CL place. In short a serious cultural reboot is needed.
 

RORY65

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I think we're probably a way off winning a title again yet (it seems highly unlikely in the next couple of years) but it would be really nice to at least challenge again, to have the excitement of thinking we're fighting for a title and believing we might win the league. For a club as big as ours and given the money we've spent it's pretty embarrassing the closest we've been in terms of points post Ferguson was that absolutely turgid 2nd year under Van Gaal.
 

TheNewEra

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That's the dream but it's still very unlikely. If I knew our board cared about winning trophies then that how I feel we would react to this
Issue is you can't go and buy a 24 year old Ronaldo and a previous Balon d'or winner in Kaka like that.

Uniteds best option is to buy world-class young players who play as part of a team (who have 6-10 years at the top level).

Splurging on players like VDB, Sancho, a top CDM and getting a top CB (that's fast, agile who can attack the ball) to partner Maguire would make the squad immediately challenge for titles.

Shaw needs competition for his spot too, he's complacent... good but not a title winning player, as much as Shaw was touted to be something special, his potential was cut short by his injury which is sad but that's football.

DDG I think will regain his world-class form when he's confident again... I have no doubts with him.

We're talking 3 positions (like the players listed) and a title challenge I think, but each summer regardless of winning trophies, there needs to be 100M+ investments.

Make the bench stronger, buy youth players for the academy and send them out on loan, invest heavily into the infrastructure at the club, continuously improve, never rest.
 

Sylar

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Last year liverpool won cl and city won the league.
Year before city won the league and Liverpool got to cl final

You would think we would have had that as a wake up call
But it really wasn't

I think we will stick to a budget even if a player is needed and available unfortunately
 

Adam-Utd

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Feel like this team could be the closest we can get, just need 2/3 quality additions.
 

Ekeke

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Feel like this team could be the closest we can get, just need 2/3 quality additions.
I feel like this has been said pretty much every season since SAF left

We never do well enough in the transfer market to sign those 2 or 3 quality players without going backwards somewhere else
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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Like others have said unless Klopp and Pep leave we have very little chance. We can spend £300 mill and still not get close to the title due to Pep and Klopp's coaching.
 

11reds

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The board cannot afford to feck up again. We actually have a strong team which with the right investment can be a solid top 3 team. De Gea, Maguire, AWB, Matic, Bruno, Pogba, Rashford and Martial are all at least top 5 in the league in their respective positions and you still have fairly reliable players in Shaw/Williams/Bailly/Lindelof/Fred/McTominay who can all start in certain games, solid squad players in James/Mata and world class potential in Mason Greenwood. Add a top RW(Sancho) and a top no10 for depth(Grealish) and if we manage to sell all of Jones/Smalling/Rojo a young CB and we can close the gap on our rivals. I really really REALLY hope Woodward and the likes in charge of transfers utilize this transfer window well and the players and manager need to use this as a desire to improve next season.
For the remainder of this season we should target the Europa League if we are an ambitious club. Only 3 wins needed to win a trophy and a guaranteed CL place. In short a serious cultural reboot is needed.
I disagree on De Gea, Shaw and Lindelof. I think they have cost us points and results time and again and if we want to get to Liverpool level's we need to sort that.

I would have more faith in Williams and Henderson than De Gea and Shaw. We need to get ruthless with players like Jones and Lingard and sever ties with them.

I agree regarding the Europa League it would be a winnable nice boost for the club.
 

Ekeke

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Also, we're never likely to do like Real Madrid. We've never really been a club that goes out and buys the best player in the world, despite our insistance on paying too much for players. We've tended to be at our best signing good players with potential to be one of the best rather than the actual best. Thats one of the reasons I dont think we'd get Sancho, I think we tend to be on the look out for "the next" one rather than the current best. And before anyone says anything, we were successful with that under Sir Alex even though we also made some poor signings.
 

Adam-Utd

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I feel like this has been said pretty much every season since SAF left

We never do well enough in the transfer market to sign those 2 or 3 quality players without going backwards somewhere else
While that’s true under Moyes/ LVG/Jose they never seemed on the same page. With ole it feels like they actually know what they’re doing for once.

maybe we’ve just got lucky but the 4 signings we made have all been in the right direction, maybe the penny has dropped for Woodward now, or maybe he wasn’t the issue after all.

anyway performances on the pitch also are looking much rosier. Under Jose I felt we lucked our way to some wins where as now we’re controlling matches.
 

hp88

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Watching the scousers has to be biggest kick up the arse we have had in recent years. Need a bounce back like the 2012-13, just hoping Ole can drill this into the boys in the sam way Fergie did after the Sunderland game.
 

In Rainbows

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Also, we're never likely to do like Real Madrid. We've never really been a club that goes out and buys the best player in the world, despite our insistance on paying too much for players. We've tended to be at our best signing good players with potential to be one of the best rather than the actual best. Thats one of the reasons I dont think we'd get Sancho, I think we tend to be on the look out for "the next" one rather than the current best. And before anyone says anything, we were successful with that under Sir Alex even though we also made some poor signings.
I think the difference with Sancho is that he just turned 20 and is English. He has a chance to grow with Greenwood for 10+ years. I think that's different from getting a player already in their prime for 4-5 years.
 

TheNewEra

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Like others have said unless Klopp and Pep leave we have very little chance. We can spend £300 mill and still not get close to the title due to Pep and Klopp's coaching.
I think you can get close even with those 2, its also about having the right characters in the dressing room.

If you have a dressing room full of winners and players who give everything it puts you close.

Look at Leicester for example, they won a league just on momentum and the right few players.

Klopp and Pep are the best managers in the world that's a given, but if you have a team full of world-class players that give 100% each week on the pitch they can win.

Pep and Klopp decide obviously tactics, prepare the games but there's more to the club than just managers.

It's also the sports scientists, the nutritionists, the coaching staff around the managers themselves, they all make a difference.

Recruit the right players, recruit the right staff through the organisation who live and breath the sport, and there's still a title challenge to be had.
 

Ekeke

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While that’s true under Moyes/ LVG/Jose they never seemed on the same page. With ole it feels like they actually know what they’re doing for once.

maybe we’ve just got lucky but the 4 signings we made have all been in the right direction, maybe the penny has dropped for Woodward now, or maybe he wasn’t the issue after all.

anyway performances on the pitch also are looking much rosier. Under Jose I felt we lucked our way to some wins where as now we’re controlling matches.
I cant agree with that.

James had a purple patch at the beginning of the season but hasnt been up to it for most of the season. If we sold him now im not sure we'd get more than we paid for him, maybe less.

We spent £125 million on defenders and we still don't have a great defence - its good not great. Personally I think AWB has papered over a lot of cracks this season.

Bruno has been great but its still early days. He's played just 10 games for us so far and so far he's been absolutely worth it but we dont know what happens next. Can he keep it up all next season? Does he struggle with injuries etc? It'll take a lot more than 10 games to categorically say he was a great signing.
 

TheNewEra

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I think the difference with Sancho is that he just turned 20 and is English. He has a chance to grow with Greenwood for 10+ years. I think that's different from getting a player already in their prime for 4-5 years.
Agreed 100%, I think United want young english talent in the squad so for the NT it's also good.

Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood, AWB, Maguire all in the same squad would mean they are always together the same spine, if its England NT duty or Man Utd they will always train together, always know how each other plays, when to pass the ball, when to release it.

The prospect of having AWB Sancho form a partnership for the english NT for 8 years and Rashford + Sancho means the whole right channel will be together at all times.

International duty AND at club level, which would build a very strong foundation, Sancho is the 100% must buy this summer.

And yes there needs to be more signings with that, this summer is a statement of intent, but every summer should be.
 

Ekeke

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I think the difference with Sancho is that he just turned 20 and is English. He has a chance to grow with Greenwood for 10+ years. I think that's different from getting a player already in their prime for 4-5 years.
Still, he's proven himself as the best right winger around other than Messi and I think most clubs would take Sancho at this moment over Messi because of the age difference.

I dont see us signing the best right winger in the world. We havent done it before, I'm not expecting it now. I am expecting us to sign someone with potential who in a few years might be considered up there with the best wingers though. That sounds much more like us
 

Van Piorsing

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100% completion of targets in summer window would be a good start. Liverpool, City and Chelsea won't wait on us if we'll keep delaying key deals for January or another season.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Every summer our board is given the same old “You can only do so much” excuse in the transfer window yet we’ve needed a proper RW since Turn Back Tony became an RB & we’ve still not remedied the issue.

We’ve needed reinforcements all over the squad for multiple summers whilst the club do the rinse & repeat, big money signing in the closing days of the window to mass applause - we’ll be nowhere near those 2 any time soon because we as a fanbase don’t require better from those in charge.

Whilst Ronaldo & Kaka might be a tad ambitious; we also shouldn’t be sitting on our hands all season then running round like headless chickens for 2 months.

The fact OgS is nowhere near Pep or Jurgen as a manager also doesn’t help.