Solskjær press conference vs West Ham (A)

Dante

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This thread is full of ridiculous strawmen.

Ole didn't say that tactics were irrelevant.

He just deflected the question by saying that passion is also important, because discussing abstract tactical minutiae during a press conference would mean missing bigger picture.

McTominay and Fred are not 'just' DMs. Pogba isn't 'just' an AM. They each have their own ways of playing the same position and desire factors massively into that.

Pogba has more talent in his little toe than Fred has in his whole body. But Fred's passion is miles higher than Pogba's. So passion has to factor into the manager's thinking.

Ole is a manager of men, not a FM player manipulating a glorified spreadsheet.
 

Isotope

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Lindelof shows more passion than Varane. Maybe we should keep James instead of Rashford or buy Sancho. Passion.
 

amolbhatia50k

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False. There are questionable managers who won major titles over the years.

You can win titles by being a real manager instead of being a headcoach+manager.

Ole has shown he is a very good manager, now he needs to prove it by winning titles.
Questionable managers :lol: Please list them. Ranieri won the PL when it was at its weakest. Barcelona managers won the league at a time of their dominance when they had Messi ripping up the league. Who are these questionable managers winning major league titles, and that too, capable of beating the likes of Klopp, Tuchel and Pep to it.
 

amolbhatia50k

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This thread is full of ridiculous strawmen.

Ole didn't say that tactics were irrelevant.

He just deflected the question by saying that passion is also important, because discussing abstract tactical minutiae during a press conference would mean missing bigger picture.

McTominay and Fred are not 'just' DMs. Pogba isn't 'just' an AM. They each have their own ways of playing the same position and desire factors massively into that.

Pogba has more talent in his little toe than Fred has in his whole body. But Fred's passion is miles higher than Pogba's. So passion has to factor into the manager's thinking.

Ole is a manager of men, not a FM player manipulating a glorified spreadsheet.
Absolutely. Pep should also learn from Ole and focus on "managing men" rather than focusing so much of silly things like tactics like he does.
 

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Questionable managers :lol: Please list them. Ranieri won the PL when it was at its weakest. Barcelona managers won the league at a time of their dominance when they had Messi ripping up the league. Who are these questionable managers winning major league titles, and that too, capable of beating the likes of Klopp, Tuchel and Pep to it.
Di Mateo, Ranieri...

So there are excuses for the other top teams during that time.. I see. ;)
 

amolbhatia50k

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Strawman. Pep does both, just like Ole does both.
Yawn worthy term.

The point is that fans who watch us and feel we look a bit aimless /lacking in excellence tactically (and they are large in number) would, shock horror, want to hear their manager speak a bit about it. His words only feed into the narrative of him and us being a bit basic in that regard.
 

tomaldinho1

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Strawman. Pep does both, just like Ole does both.
I admire your passion for defending Ole but, this presser aside, it doesn’t have to be a negative that he’s not a hands on coach (his own quotes re giving the bigger ideas but letting the coaches execute). The issue is clearly that in that setup you need more experienced coaches than Carrick and McKenna (it was also confirmed Phelan doesn’t hands on coach tactics). I don’t think that’s too negative or crazy a thing to suggest?
 

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Questionable managers :lol: Please list them. Ranieri won the PL when it was at its weakest. Barcelona managers won the league at a time of their dominance when they had Messi ripping up the league. Who are these questionable managers winning major league titles, and that too, capable of beating the likes of Klopp, Tuchel and Pep to it.
Super clubs regularly carry middle of the road managers to titles all the time. Sari won the title in Italy, Pellegrini won the title in England. Enrique won the treble in Spain etc
 

amolbhatia50k

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Di Mateo, Ranieri...

So there are excuses for the other top teams during that time.. I see. ;)
Di Mattio never won the league and fluked a CL. Ranieri won the league against Spurs :lol:

If your plan against Pep, Klopp and Tuchel is to believe in a Di Mattio or Ranieri level manager, at a club with Ronaldo, Bruno and a transfer watchest, then you don't deserve much success.
 

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I thought we all already knew Ole prefers to put emphasis on man management? Ole played for a manager who was all about man management, and was incredibly successful, of course that’s going to influence the way Ole wants to manage.

This isn’t news everybody, at least not to me.
 

Desert Eagle

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Super clubs regularly carry middle of the road managers to titles all the time. Sari won the title in Italy, Pellegrini won the title in England. Enrique won the treble in Spain etc
All managers held in much higher regard than Ole. Also all three are involved in the coaching side unlike our manager.
 

Pickle85

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Yawn worthy term.

The point is that fans who watch us and feel we look a bit aimless /lacking in excellence tactically (and they are large in number) would, shock horror, want to hear their manager speak a bit about it. His words only feed into the narrative of him and us being a bit basic in that regard.
Yup, exactly this. It would have actually given me more confidence if he'd just refused to engage with the question entirely as opposed to the half baked answer he gave around wanting all rounders and name checking former United greats.
 

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I admire your passion for defending Ole but, this presser aside, it doesn’t have to be a negative that he’s not a hands on coach (his own quotes re giving the bigger ideas but letting the coaches execute). The issue is clearly that in that setup you need more experienced coaches than Carrick and McKenna (it was also confirmed Phelan doesn’t hands on coach tactics). I don’t think that’s too negative or crazy a thing to suggest?
Jesus, he will want to get rid of most of the team so. Then take another 5 years building it, if he can find the players he wants. Think coaching from inside should be considered.
 

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I’ve been pretty consistently skeptical of Ole’s coaching ability but the furore over his press conference is just people looking for another excuse to vent tbh. We already know he spouts a lot of vague nonsense in his press conferences, which is often a good thing. He probably doesn’t think he needs to prove his tactical acumen in a press conference (though I wish he would just out of interest). He needs to show it on the pitch.
 

Bestietom

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I’ve been pretty consistently skeptical of Ole’s coaching ability but the furore over his press conference is just people looking for another excuse to vent tbh. We already know he spouts a lot of vague nonsense in his press conferences, which is often a good thing. He probably doesn’t think he needs to prove his tactical acumen in a press conference (though I wish he would just out of interest). He needs to show it on the pitch.
Wish he would prove his tactical acumen in big games. ( 3 semi finals and a final comes to mind)
 

Adisa

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This is a manager with over a decade experience. The ideas he's a tactical novice or doesn't contribute tactically is laughable.
The plain truth is that he's up against coaches who are on another planet when it comes to coaching and tactics.
If he can still compete for titles despite that gap is what we will find out this season.
I already know my answer but he has earned the benefit of a doubt.
 

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Solskjaer asked about midfield and his 'philosophy'
"I’m not here to explain every single detail of how I want my team to play. We want central midfielder who can play. Today’s football is about he’s a good 6, 8, 10 back in the day you had proper midfielders, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Bryan Robson. You see players out there who can attack and defend and that’s what we look for, midfielders who are complete and we try to develop that in our midfield.

It's a balance between with how many you commit forward and how you defend because one little mistake and there’s a counter attack towards you.

Overarching philosophy… I don’t sit here and claim and talk... football is a simple game and it's about making good decisions and being in a team.

Sometimes we look too much into the all intricacies and it’s passion, it's desire - who wants to win the ball? Which one of the striker has the desire to get on the end of crosses?

You can talk about all sorts, it looks nice on paper. But when you go out on that pitch, it's who wants to win, that’s one of the big things. You want winners and I think I’m getting there with my team, team players."
Two minutes of absolute waffle. A proper politicians answer that. He hasn't a scooby, and it shows.
 

Rash Decision

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Wish he would prove his tactical acumen in big games. ( 3 semi finals and a final comes to mind)
If you mean big games as in crucial must-win games then yeah. If you mean games against big teams, he has had a few tactical successes, especially against City. He’s probably one of Pep’s bigger nightmares when it comes to managerial matchups, alongside Klopp and now Tuchel apparently.
 

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We know enough about Ole that his comments aren't a surprise and therefore it's harsh to criticise him on comments we'd very much expect. I think we do lack a fundamental philosophy/element of control in the way we play but if he'd gone into detail about said philosophy I'm sure many would critcise him for saying it's not being implemented.
 

mitchmouse

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This thread is full of ridiculous strawmen.

Ole didn't say that tactics were irrelevant.

He just deflected the question by saying that passion is also important, because discussing abstract tactical minutiae during a press conference would mean missing bigger picture.

McTominay and Fred are not 'just' DMs. Pogba isn't 'just' an AM. They each have their own ways of playing the same position and desire factors massively into that.

Pogba has more talent in his little toe than Fred has in his whole body. But Fred's passion is miles higher than Pogba's. So passion has to factor into the manager's thinking.

Ole is a manager of men, not a FM player manipulating a glorified spreadsheet.
what game did you watch on Tuesday to make you think Ole is a "manager of men" - and the problem is he so often doesn't seem to have tactics which might be why he doesn't talk about the subject much
 

UnitedSofa

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I was today years old when I watched him give this answer and fully realized that we are not going to win JACK SQUAT with Ole. Not a chance in hell. Doesn't matter if we have Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, Greenwood, Varane or anybody else. Even if we had bought world-class DMF, we would still not win anything. Not with Ole...

Damn this hurts
stop being silly
 

MichaelRed

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stop being silly
Many would argue it's only silly to think he can win anything. He's nowhere near the top level and nor is his backroom staff that he brought with him from bottom-tier teams everywhere. Neither he nor his coaches would get jobs at the top 4 teams in any of the major leagues in europe.
 

Tony247

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Solskjaer asked about midfield and his 'philosophy'
"I’m not here to explain every single detail of how I want my team to play. We want central midfielder who can play. Today’s football is about he’s a good 6, 8, 10 back in the day you had proper midfielders, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Bryan Robson. You see players out there who can attack and defend and that’s what we look for, midfielders who are complete and we try to develop that in our midfield.

It's a balance between with how many you commit forward and how you defend because one little mistake and there’s a counter attack towards you.

Overarching philosophy… I don’t sit here and claim and talk... football is a simple game and it's about making good decisions and being in a team.

Sometimes we look too much into the all intricacies and it’s passion, it's desire - who wants to win the ball? Which one of the striker has the desire to get on the end of crosses?

You can talk about all sorts, it looks nice on paper. But when you go out on that pitch, it's who wants to win, that’s one of the big things. You want winners and I think I’m getting there with my team, team players."
Spend millions on buying 11 good players and then hope they win most of the trophies...only if football was that simple these day. Football has gradually changed in last 4 decades. Still until mid 2000s this philosophy of good 11 players could see you get somewhere. Ole is every bit old school. I would be ignorant to speculate that he doesn't know the modern complexities. But knowing is one thing and buying into it and effectively implementing is another. Players are being studied like never before, their physical fitness has improved significantly. Coaches around the world are armed with minutest details about opposition. That is level playing field, whether you are a small club or elite. That is good. Difference between playing excellent 11 vs average 11 has been significantly reduced as compared to 90s or early 2000s. Trophies are not guaranteed anymore. And that is where a tactically astute manager becomes differentiating factor. Perfecting a system to play certain type of football based on the situation has become demand of the day, otherwise good teams can be found out by smaller teams. Ole defeated Emrey and Nagelsmann. Next time both came up with different plan and schooled Ole. This is called being found out.

Now we have a team of Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, Varane, DDG, Sancho, Shaw, Maguire, Rashford, Greenwood. This team must win either CL or PL. In long term and in knock out stages manager's decisions can swing the game. Does Ole have that x-factor? Let's see. Else I don't think he will be here next summer.
 

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We sit top of the table and you guys make this place feel like a nightmare. I Fecking hate you guys
 
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JuriM

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Spend millions on buying 11 good players and then hope they win most of the trophies...only if football was that simple these day. Football has gradually changed in last 4 decades. Still until mid 2000s this philosophy of good 11 players could see you get somewhere. Ole is every bit old school. I would be ignorant to speculate that he doesn't know the modern complexities. But knowing is one thing and buying into it and effectively implementing is another. Players are being studied like never before, their physical fitness has improved significantly. Coaches around the world are armed with minutest details about opposition. That is level playing field, whether you are a small club or elite. That is good. Difference between playing excellent 11 vs average 11 has been significantly reduced as compared to 90s or early 2000s. Trophies are not guaranteed anymore. And that is where a tactically astute manager becomes differentiating factor. Perfecting a system to play certain type of football based on the situation has become demand of the day, otherwise good teams can be found out by smaller teams. Ole defeated Emrey and Nagelsmann. Next time both came up with different plan and schooled Ole. This is called being found out.

Now we have a team of Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, Varane, DDG, Sancho, Shaw, Maguire, Rashford, Greenwood. This team must win either CL or PL. In long term and in knock out stages manager's decisions can swing the game. Does Ole have that x-factor? Let's see. Else I don't think he will be here next summer.
I agree with the most but the actually trophy winning in cup competitions - it's coming down to fine details and one individual horrible blunder can lose a brilliant side the win. But in terms of squad depth we must be up there with Chelsea and City atm to go for the Premier League trophy hunt.
 

mu4c_20le

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Many would argue it's only silly to think he can win anything. He's nowhere near the top level and nor is his backroom staff that he brought with him from bottom-tier teams everywhere. Neither he nor his coaches would get jobs at the top 4 teams in any of the major leagues in europe.
And yet he was a penalty kick away from winning something. Maybe many are sheep?
 

MichaelRed

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And yet he was a penalty kick away from winning something. Maybe many are sheep?
Even if we won the shootout, we still drew the match. Using that final as an attempt to defend him is laughable given how poorly he handled it.
 

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I admire your passion for defending Ole but, this presser aside, it doesn’t have to be a negative that he’s not a hands on coach (his own quotes re giving the bigger ideas but letting the coaches execute). The issue is clearly that in that setup you need more experienced coaches than Carrick and McKenna (it was also confirmed Phelan doesn’t hands on coach tactics). I don’t think that’s too negative or crazy a thing to suggest?
It's not, and I love Ole and what he's done with the squad. He's all about United before himself, but surely he could do with some help from some established coaches on the training pitch?

From what I've heard/read, some of the coaching staff (e.g. McKenna) are bright up and coming talents, but should a club like United have a group of talented but mostly inexperienced learners as the coaching staff? The jury is out on the likes of Carrick and Fletcher, but they do not seem like the sorts to bring new ideas to the table, just because they played a major part of their careers under the same manager as Ole.
 

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Even if we won the shootout, we still drew the match. Using that final as an attempt to defend him is laughable given how poorly he handled it.
Well Tuchel could only draw against them and they only won the Super Cup on penalties. Maybe they are just a good team under a smart cup manager.
 

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This thread is full of ridiculous strawmen.

Ole didn't say that tactics were irrelevant.

He just deflected the question by saying that passion is also important, because discussing abstract tactical minutiae during a press conference would mean missing bigger picture.

McTominay and Fred are not 'just' DMs. Pogba isn't 'just' an AM. They each have their own ways of playing the same position and desire factors massively into that.

Pogba has more talent in his little toe than Fred has in his whole body. But Fred's passion is miles higher than Pogba's. So passion has to factor into the manager's thinking.

Ole is a manager of men, not a FM player manipulating a glorified spreadsheet.
Passion isn't gonna win us any titles. Every team has passion, we're not unique in that regard. If Ole's whole gameplan is built around passion and desire to win, then it's not looking really good for us, is it? Guardiola has spelled out what he is trying to do in a number of interviews, it's not a national secret. Regardless if the other team knows what you are about to do, if you know how to do it, the other team won't be able to stop you. Van Gaal was a manager here and he talked about his philosophy that became something of a meme word. Yeah, his philosophy was boring, low tempo possession above everything, even scoring goals, football, but it was a philosophy nevertheless. You could see what he was trying to do, like it or not. With Ole his presser just confirms what we are witnessing on the pitch - the players look like they just met each other and told to go on the pitch and kick the ball. Rio should just take an interview from Carrick or McKenna and ask him to explain wtf are we trying to do because Ole certainly doesn't have an idea.

And I hate that people still try to compare him to SAF saying they're both similar in that regard. Absolute nonsense. SAF had a clear philosophy that he employed at each and every one of his clubs - high tempo football utilizing quick passes and intense pressing, and domination of the wings. He certainly tinkered with it over the years depending on his players, sometimes it didn't work that well, especially in his last few years (given the quality of his players then), but it was always there. 3 years later and I still have no idea what Ole is trying to do. When it comes to pressing we're very lethargic, our passing is dreadful - we either hoof it or short pass it, but when we short pass it we're terrible at it. We're neither low or high tempo, we don't prioritize possession or counter attacks. In fact, if I didn't know any better, I'd say we're built like a Moyes underdog team who is built around soaking pressure and let the enemy attack, but when you're managing Manchester United, you're expected to dominate games, not "make it difficult for the other team" philosophy.
 
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MichaelRed

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Well Tuchel could only draw against them and they only won the Super Cup on penalties. Maybe they are just a good team under a smart cup manager.
The same Tuchel that inherited a team that looked mediocre and instantly made them CL champions & has them looking phenomenal this season? Again, Ole pales in comparison to every other top flight manager.
 

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The same Tuchel that inherited a team that looked mediocre and instantly made them CL champions & has them looking phenomenal this season? Again, Ole pales in comparison to every other top flight manager.
Well we have progressed under Ole, of course there are questions to be asked and he has to deliver this season.

Tuchel only scraped by into the CL on the last day of the season and needed rivals Spurs to do them a favour. Fine margins - if Leicester had qualified and City won the CL final how would Tuchel be viewed now?
 

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Well we have progressed under Ole, of course there are questions to be asked and he has to deliver this season.

Tuchel only scraped by into the CL on the last day of the season and needed rivals Spurs to do them a favour. Fine margins - if Leicester had qualified and City won the CL final how would Tuchel be viewed now?
Didn’t Chelsea win the most league points after City following Tuchel’s appointment? If he hadn’t made it into the CL places, it would rightly have been blamed on Lampard’s abject performance. And losing to City is no shame for a manager taking over a team halfway through the season. He would still have been lauded for taking Chelsea to the final.
 

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Passion isn't gonna win us any titles. Every team has passion, we're not unique in that regard. If Ole's whole gameplan is built around passion and desire to win, then it's not looking really good for us, is it? Guardiola has spelled out what he is trying to do in a number of interviews, it's not a national secret. Regardless if the other team knows what you are about to do, if you know how to do it, the other team won't be able to stop you. Van Gaal was a manager here and he talked about his philosophy that became something of a meme word. Yeah, his philosophy was boring, low tempo possession above everything, even scoring goals, football, but it was a philosophy nevertheless. You could see what he was trying to do, like it or not. With Ole his presser just confirms what we are witnessing on the pitch - the players look like they just met each other and told to go on the pitch and kick the ball. Rio should just take an interview from Carrick or McKenna and ask him to explain wtf are we trying to do because Ole certainly doesn't have an idea.

And I hate that people still try to compare him to SAF saying they're both similar in that regard. Absolute nonsense. SAF had a clear philosophy that he employed at each and every one of his clubs - high tempo football utilizing quick passes and intense pressing, and domination of the wings. He certainly tinkered with it over the years depending on his players, sometimes it didn't work that well, especially in his last few years (given the quality of his players then), but it was always there. 3 years later and I still have no idea what Ole is trying to do. When it comes to pressing we're very lethargic, our passing is dreadful - we either hoof it or short pass it, but when we short pass it we're terrible at it. We're neither low or high tempo, we don't prioritize possession or counter attacks. In fact, if I didn't know any better, I'd say we're built like a Moyes underdog team who is built around soaking pressure and let the enemy attack, but when you're managing Manchester United, you're expected to dominate games, not "make it difficult for the other team" philosophy.
I actually think Ole is trying to do something similar to SAF. He’s failing somewhat because he doesn’t have the same kind of players, and teams nowadays are generally more organised and micromanaged than they were during SAF’s time. Similar reason as why Mourinho no longer dominates football. For sure SAF would have continued to evolve his football philosophy and tactics if he were still managing today.

Edit: maybe a bit of a mix between SAF and earlier Klopp.
 

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Even when Klopp first came in, within a few months you could tell that he had a clear style. Three years later, its blatantly obvious Ole doesn't. Lets face it our fans will back him and our board don't know any better. If we don't get in a proper manager, we'll look back at this crop of players and regret we didn't, much like England fans now do with Sven. This incompetent board will only sack a manager when top 4 is out of the question. So we're stuck with him.
 

Devil_forever

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These statements are pretty damning and confirm a lot of our fears. And I've seen comments in this thread again excusing his words, saying it's only a press conference, he doesn't want to reveal his tactics (what tactics btw?), but he could explain what he is trying to do without revealing anything of note. Many other managers have done it. Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel, Nagelsmann, etc have all gone on hourly long rants about how they want their team to play. With Solskjaer it's what I and many have feared - his job is basically that of a life coach who tells the players nothing more than "go out there and score some goals, my son"... That's not the markings of a top manager, it's nowhere near. Which fully explains why 3 years later we still have no identity, no team cohesion about anything that we do and why we can't seem to pass our way out of our own half. And why our players still look like a bunch of people just thrown together on a pitch to play Saturday league football. His staff credentials doesn't breed much confidence either.One poster in this thread or the Ole thread (can't remember which) posted an image of his coaching staff and it is appalling to look at. Literally 99% of them have a amateur resumes who have been hired out of sheer nepotism. Why do we play so badly with these players? There's your answer, Ole just told you. And btw, Ole inners are in for a rude awakening if they think a world class CDM is going to change this team. It's gonna look like the same disjointed mess it is currently. Maybe it will make us better, but we'll still play like shit and we'll still rely on whichever star in our team has his day. You can give him a world class player in every position and i'd still be sceptical of our chances of winning the league. Might win a cup or two due to the sheer quality, but title winning teams are not only dependent on good players, but actual patterns of play that teams can implement and enforce.

As for the Jesse's comments, I'll let them slide as a PR statement. But it is worrying nevertheless because our club is known for making quite frankly ridiculously stupid decisions. Imagine Jesse staying for 10 year at Madrid. He would have been sold before he even hit 18. And until we get rid ourselves of this small time mentality, we'll be stuck in the mud for years to come.
Nailed it.
 

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Ole is sensitive to pressure and I still feel he is learning what it means to manage this club. You can see it. His response re how he wants his team to play is a little strange... is he looking for a Keane, Scholes, Robson... because his signings do not suggest so, and his coaching style does not suggest so. He sure isn't developing Fred, Mantic etc into these types of players, so I am not sure why he responded that way.

I think we will beat West Ham (as, fortunately for us, Antonio is suspended, correct????), and everything will settle for a few days.

But Ole knows the pressure is well and truly on this season. And the signing of CR7 will only magnify and increase that. It may all come good, very good.... but it's difficult to commit to his management style. It lacks definition, no matter who he signs. That's an ongoing worry for me.