A politicians answer doesn’t have to mean ‘I don’t know’, it can also mean ‘I’m not telling you’.
Solskjær press conference vs West Ham (A)
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
I agree. I'm just pointing out people don't need to blindly defend Ole against everything. Questioning the coaching staff because of their inexperience is completely fair & logical. If that makes for an actual debate I'm all for it.
I would agree re being up-and-coming but then I'm of the opinion you have to put in the time from a tutelage perspective for any form of coaching and the only one who has seemingly done that is Pert - who I never really see mentioned anywhere. If you want to be a lawyer, you could go to a magic circle firm but if there is no hands on mentoring from above you aren't going to develop. I'd love to have seen Carrick go and get experience externally, even try management in the lower leagues or abroad and then come back - if you stay in the same environment forever you aren't exactly going to be pushing on the innovation front.
You only need to think back to LVG - everyone from Giggs to Rooney who has gone into management said they learned so much from him (which is all the more impressive as he wasn't popular so there's no reason for them to pay him lip service) and whilst his style was not right for us, his approach to mentoring and education would have been great for younger coaches. If Ole had that approach i.e. "this is my style, here's evidence of me coaching it, this is how we setup that same style throughout the academy" (look at what Soton are doing although obviously for different reasons) then these coaches will get a proper education in Ole's tactics and I would be extremely positive on our future. However, at the moment it seems it's more Ole being heavily involved in the club and player management side and letting 2 very inexperienced coaches essentially learn on the job. Personally I think that's why when Ole started he said we would sign younger players and since changed tack to be a bit more Mou-esque and bring in proven big name players because we aren't strong enough on the coaching front:
Maybe we should genuinely just assess Ole as essentially a quasi DOF/man manager & then the criticism for how we actually play is on the coaches. I don't think that's fair, personally, not should it be the role of a manager but that is seemingly the setup we have so maybe it's a case of us all just accepting that's how it is.
To be fair, that is actually true in most games we play and did play in the past. Especially under SAF.
Maybe it's just me but I don't find it particularly interesting that he hasn't waffled on about pressing details, formations and "patterns of play" in a press conference. What would be the point, who does it benefit? The fact Klopp or Pep may have done it at one time or another doesn't seem particularly noteworthy to me. It's not a criteria for management.
The reality is if he'd have divulged his ideas he probably would be getting criticised for the fact that we don't always live up to his talk as there is an obvious disparity between where we are and where we need to be. There is nothing Ole can say in a conference that would change the mind of a portion of our fans that quibble everything that he does. They are going to take the contrary position more often than not even if it means taking up a tenuous line of argument, and in that context it can be seen that a tactical soundbyte is meaningless.
The place where Ole needs to excel is on the football pitch. I am completely unfussed regarding his press conference performance. He carries himself well and without attracting circus like attention and that's enough for me. I don't want to be audibly convinced of his acumen, I want to see the team play good football more consistently and then assess both the performances and the results, there is nothing he's going to say to the press that dissuades me from this view.
He either sinks or he swims this season but I'll support him in the meantime. There is having doubts, which I think nearly everyone has at least in some measure, and then there is creating ridiculous, juvenile sticks to beat the manager with.
The reality is if he'd have divulged his ideas he probably would be getting criticised for the fact that we don't always live up to his talk as there is an obvious disparity between where we are and where we need to be. There is nothing Ole can say in a conference that would change the mind of a portion of our fans that quibble everything that he does. They are going to take the contrary position more often than not even if it means taking up a tenuous line of argument, and in that context it can be seen that a tactical soundbyte is meaningless.
The place where Ole needs to excel is on the football pitch. I am completely unfussed regarding his press conference performance. He carries himself well and without attracting circus like attention and that's enough for me. I don't want to be audibly convinced of his acumen, I want to see the team play good football more consistently and then assess both the performances and the results, there is nothing he's going to say to the press that dissuades me from this view.
He either sinks or he swims this season but I'll support him in the meantime. There is having doubts, which I think nearly everyone has at least in some measure, and then there is creating ridiculous, juvenile sticks to beat the manager with.
Sensitive to pressure? Have you seen some of the batshit mental and borderline insulting things that have been said about him on national platforms like TalkSport, The Independent, Guardian et al since 2019? He's been dignified after every bad defeat, never lashing out like Jose or LvG did, or having a victim complex like Moyes did, and he has still given each and every one of these journalists the time of day, including Carl Anka who asked the question which led to this diatribe of nonsense that has been unleashed.
Anka asked a pretty good question in a clunky manner. No football coach or manager is going to tell the press and wider world the intricacies of what their plan is, but Anka pushed on and then did it for a third time. And it is that which led to OGS saying what he did. The context of which seems to have been missing from the usual suspects who have been sharing it ad infinitum... I wonder why. Also, it's pretty funny how it's seen as proof of Ole being out of his depth when it's literally the exact same philosophy of Zidane. Who so many seem to admire.
I'm pretty certain the reason why Anka asked it was because a Twitter user pretty much got under his skin the day before on the point of Anka being captain hindsight and saying in not so clear terms, that Ole is out of his depth despite having the opportunity to press Ole on the things that Anka apparently has questions over.
The people who continue to spew over Ole are the same ones who said he'd be out of the job by Christmas 2019. They long made their mind up that he wasn't cut out for the job and every defeat is proof positive of it. It's just a shame for them that Ole hasn't given them much of an opportunity to say as much as we hardly ever lose under him since the turn of the year in 2020...
Yep, pretty much agree.
Like I've said before he can't win, even when he does win, ironically enough.
I understood that reference.
Philosophy in football is nonsense. Buzz words to seem intellectual. What you’re literally describing is tactics and Ole actually describes how he wants from his midfielders as an example
I'd rather have "PE teacher" Solskjaer who delivers entertaining attacking football 80% of the time, than a LVG who pontificates about philosophy but delivers tumescent football.
Pretty sure other managers only talk or explain tactics after they won, not before, and certainly not right after a loss. This is literally the worst time for him to explain himself, as the press would have a field day picking his words apart. That's why I'm baffled at some of the expectations here. Ole seems to get judged by a completely different stick.
He is just not as detail oriented as Pep or Tuchel. So he is not going to claim to be something he is not.
Neither are Ancelotti or Zidane btw, those two also don’t go into as much detail about tactics, still they are excellent and very successful managers.
Not every cub has to like every manager.
Bayern for example wouldn’t touch Ancelotti again, whereas RM have re-hired him.
Whereas someone like Mourinho is so detail oriented that he can even control a player’s brain. Look how that worked out.
The talking on the pitch is relevant and that’s where he needs to improve on last season, not in the press or in tactic discussions.
Neither are Ancelotti or Zidane btw, those two also don’t go into as much detail about tactics, still they are excellent and very successful managers.
Not every cub has to like every manager.
Bayern for example wouldn’t touch Ancelotti again, whereas RM have re-hired him.
Whereas someone like Mourinho is so detail oriented that he can even control a player’s brain. Look how that worked out.
The talking on the pitch is relevant and that’s where he needs to improve on last season, not in the press or in tactic discussions.
Tony Adams at Granada energy.
Of what use is talking tactics after 3 years. People should not benupset about what he did or didn't say.
All the questions we have are answered on the pitch.
All the questions we have are answered on the pitch.
The truth is none of us the ins or the outs know, where Ole is getting to, or going to. I think that's very telling. I mean what are we to expect from the team if nobody knows?
What? We play long-ball defensive crap. We play attacking football 20% of the time at best.
Wouldn't we all.. but instead we have overly defensive, counterattacking Solskjaer
I am not sure what people were expecting him to say about his 'tactics'. We all know what they are, no one ever accused Ole of being a stretegic and tactical manager. He is a SAF wannabe but in this day and age, that will only take you so far unless of course you were SAF. And it shows on the pitch too, haha ... its not like people here are moaning needlessly about Ole being clueless on-pitch, Ole basically said he is clueless and depends on the talent at his disposal to pull one out of the bag.
No one is asking for the type of detail Koop, Pep or Tuchel get into...and no one really wanted him to whip out an iPad and start lecturing on phases of play or counter pressing! Fans just wanted some sort of reassurance that what they were seeing EVERY WEEK...with their own eyes...not through the lens of new age hipster pundits..this slow, tumescent, patternless movement and build up, was actually intended and was going to speed up and click at some point. Instead, they got a Hail Mary about desire and wanting it more! It was ridiculous.
Its hilarious really. This isn't going to end well if we don't win PL/CL this year. He's got the best team in the league at his disposal, all this talk of CDM is rubbish. So much talent and his answer is 'heart', 'passion' and 'desire'.
Genuinely important question. Why was this on yesterday? Thought match pressers are always on a Friday
Yes, I agree. Individual blunder can change the game. But for a manager good tactical changes is a credit that keeps building over the years. Even Pep or Klopp make tactical blunders sometimes. But it is forgivable because they have lots of credit of getting it right most of the times. Problem with Ole is that he doesn't have that credit even after 2 full years at United. So his tactical blunders keep piling on. Be it keeping Fred in CL match even after knowing he was walking on thin ice, or not sending Henderson in the pen shootout, or using subs too late in the game and most recently baffling changes after going one man down.
You can't say that, ok, alright, this is one off blunder, we can live with that. I know it is just first CL match and the world is not over. It is just that I don't see him getting it right most of the time, ever. That is the issue. At the end like everyone else I just want united to win. If tomorrow he turns around his in-game management and becomes elite level manager then I would be very happy.
He hasn't got any excuses now he has the players he wanted and now he has to deliver. He didn't want a CDM this summer as he said himself and now he has to make it work with the current midfielders he has.
For Ole its just who ever wants to win more and also have better players than the other team.
Did everyone expect a Ted talk from him regarding our system?
It was question from a Pre match press conference.
Now people are posting lengthy interviews with Pep and Tuchel in comparison
Jesus wept
Can't tell sarcasm around these parts anymore... we have the most goals in the league
After 4 games. Leeds & Newcastle did everything they could to help that too.
Harsh on Dyche and Sam because they have a clear philosophy and buy players to fit it, even if people don't like the style. Ole is just espousing the 'better players than everyone else' philosophy or as Roy Keane framed it in a recent interview 'I just need a good group of lads'. The problem in the Premier League in 2021 is that you can get that 'good group of lads' but there are at least 3 other sides with a 'good group of lads' and they also have managers that are tactically superior.
Yeah on paper. But if you take away penalties, individual brilliance, set pieces, goals from transitions, goals from long balls and goals from Jesse Lingard who shouldn’t even be at the club how many goals have we actually scored?
As much as my previous posts might indicate..I’m not Ole out. Far from it. IMO He has single handedly dragged this club and fans out of the pit of despair that was Moyes and Mourinho! I’m no longer a complete laughing stock with my mates! I was in the Stretford end with my kid when the banner was unfurled and as it draped over our heads I felt it was a moment I could talk about with him when he grew up and when I was too old to make the trip anymore...it was beautiful...then we continued to watch the most depressing 90 minutes of shite against Watford, grinding out a result and not much has changed since!!! Despite this, Ole has revitalised expectations, gotten rid of mercenaries and recruited really well. Ole has done exactly what we needed him to do...but now we need the next step and develop tactical approach to match the quality of our squad.
I mean, it's not surprising when you look at their managerial careers.Who, out of our greater players during Sir Alex's reign, went on to become good tactical managers? It's all "you've got to want it more than them" rather than any of them coaching their teams to play good stuff.
These comments from Ole are worrying.
Yeah very well said. Gary Neville talking about managerial skills and what it takes to be a successful one is really stuff of dreams, I can’t even name a bigger failure and embarrassment than him at Valencia, he really shouldn’t be having this conversations. Then again, was SAF really all about “go with passion, do the good stuff on the pitch, fight for every ball”? I just can’t believe that, it’s been many many year but there was some plan to our games back in the day, right?
Some of the Ole defenders are acting as if there are clear tactics visible in the game and it is only in press conference he is deflecting the question.
Again, it is quite possible that we have a good season, and I hope we have it, but time is running out for Ole. With all the players at his disposal, it is all about results now. No longer a work in progress project.
Again, it is quite possible that we have a good season, and I hope we have it, but time is running out for Ole. With all the players at his disposal, it is all about results now. No longer a work in progress project.
is it not exhausting being as miserable of a human as you are, i constantly see you post the same crap all the time on this forum, you do not agree with an opinion of someone therefor they are in your eyes a shitposter, take a break grandad
I was only a lurker back in the days of LVG, but its funny that back then LVG was derided for constantly talking about his "philosophy". Fast forward a few years, some irrelevant journo asks Solskjaer about his philosophy in a press conference and this place is in a meltdown over Oles answer.
Not criticising, just an observation on how things change.
Not criticising, just an observation on how things change.
The reason OLE went quiet when asked about tactics, is that he doesnt know himself.
There is no style of play, no pressing, no attacking strategy other than hit them on the break.... with our squad we should be dominating possession, imposing ourselves on other teams.
I do like OGS and would love for him to do well long term and win things but modern day football you need to get the best out of your squad ...ole isnt doing that at the moment.
Will he be allowed Declan Rice signing?Will he be given another season if he fails to win anything this year? Can he get us playing in a positive way and dominating games? Can he control big characters if things start going wrong...? Alll these questions will need to be answered this year
There is no style of play, no pressing, no attacking strategy other than hit them on the break.... with our squad we should be dominating possession, imposing ourselves on other teams.
I do like OGS and would love for him to do well long term and win things but modern day football you need to get the best out of your squad ...ole isnt doing that at the moment.
Will he be allowed Declan Rice signing?Will he be given another season if he fails to win anything this year? Can he get us playing in a positive way and dominating games? Can he control big characters if things start going wrong...? Alll these questions will need to be answered this year
Again lots of small minded Ole hatters picking at what he said may not of said, get a life people, like he's going to say anything that might help the opposition. If you don't like Ole then fair enough but for the love of God shut the **** up bashing every little detail of everything he does. Like he's not under enough pressure being the Utd boss he's got so called supporters bashing him every second of every day.
Some just don't want to believe it, even though the guy is really honest. He's really saying the truth, his tactical game plan and philosophy are non existent and he doesn't hide from it, he knows quite well his football is all about "desire" and "passion" and nothing else, and it's clear by just watching us whenever we're in a tough situation, but of course, for some here who couldn't stop debating otherwise, it's hard to believe so. They made their mind that Ole is a mastermind tactical genius and is just deflecting questions from the press because apparently his tactics we watch regularly are so complex to understand.
Of course there was a plan in Ferguson's day. It went through various stages from the classic 4-4-2 and wingplay to more continental styles, and towards the end it looked less cohesive but ultimately still achieved results. If it hadn't achieved results we'd be saying where is the style of play - it really just shows that the result is fundamental. That's why after every loss we see hysterical reactions.
There's a plan now. Just because some fans don't like the look of what they're seeing or perhaps the performances and the intention behind them are disparate at times, it doesn't mean there isn't a plan, an intended way of playing or that the manager doesn't do much tactical work.
This is more a problem in how fans like to paint with very broad strokes, not realising that all the arguments they make can equally apply to a manager that prioritises tactics or one that doesn't. Some examples: Ole says passion and desire is important. Ole is of the Neville/Keane generation. Pep likes to more obviously waffle about tactical elements than Ole does. There isn't any obvious correlation between these things and the work that the manager is trying to do behind the scenes.
There is a plan. Whether it's the right one, whether it is being implemented on the pitch, and whether it can produce tangible success in the form of trophies, these are all reasonable questions and realistically this is the only currency the manager has. He's not going to win favour by producing a distinctly identifiable style of football that loses or by a press conference seminar on passing triangles.
I think even the most ardent Ole fan and those that respect his work so far would harbour some doubts under the surface but why we need to stretch the point to these ludicrous conceptions of the manager as having no tactics, a PE teacher etc to the point his conferences get forensic analysis is beyond me.