Solskjær sack watch | 2019/20 edition

Jonno

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Compare them to other top 6 clubs and see how much worse we are?
is that you admitting that “two injuries” is wide of the mark?

we’ve had the most injuries out of the other top 6 clubs. We also have the smallest and worst squads out of them. Ole’s fault? No, because he’s had 1 transfer window.

Do I want Ole in charge? No, he’s not good enough at the top level. But don’t claim he’s had 2 injuries to wrongly strengthen your argument
 

Bestietom

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If this is true, where and when did it go so wrong for us? With previous two managers, we were always there around top 4. Even finished 2nd the season before and we were unhappy because we felt the squad is capable of more. And now we need 4 or 5 first teamers and some squad players to "even talk about top 4". How did this happen?
Not replacing players who have seen their day. This summer we brought in 3 good players, but everyone knew that we should have also replaced Herrera and Lukaku.
It all went haywire after Fergie retired. Some say he left a team that was over the hill. This team had run away with the Premiership by 11 points, ffs. Changing a couple of players each window could have kept us challenging for years. instead Moyes wanted to do things his way including getting rid of the staff that Fergie left behind.
This has continued with every manager we have brought in since.
LVG and his "Philosophy" Backwards and sideways football.
Mourinho with his defensive football.
We are now left with a lot of deadwood and need a huge rebuild, but it will only keep getting worse, as we keep changing managers. Every new manager sets us back another 3/4 years and unless we give them time, we will never get back to where we belong.
 

Sky1981

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is that you admitting that “two injuries” is wide of the mark?

we’ve had the most injuries out of the other top 6 clubs. We also have the smallest and worst squads out of them. Ole’s fault? No, because he’s had 1 transfer window.

Do I want Ole in charge? No, he’s not good enough at the top level. But don’t claim he’s had 2 injuries to wrongly strengthen your argument
We've had one big injury in martial. Pogba was out for 2-3 weeks. The rest is pretty normal case of 1 week out. Hardly a major crisis.

You're making it as it half of our squad is on 3months injury.

Apart from martial, everything else was considered normal season.
 

Litch

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So before Ole came in, the squad was embarrassingly unbalanced. We all knew the issues, too many defenders, too many aged players, not enough creativity in midfield and too many mard arses in Lukaku and Sanchez who turned upto training for a payslip. Now he has injuries (a lot of them) and people still think he can implement his stamp on the team? I respectfully disagree.

Maybe the wrong word but I think Klopp has been fortunate, dare I say lucky with injuries. Yeah, he might lose one player for a few games then another but that first XI has been together for a good few years now. Pep walked into the foundation of a balanced healthy squad. If he messed up in the transfer market like he did a few years back, what's the solution, no problem go and buy another couple of full-backs.

The mess we are in with successive mismanagement across the club since Fergie left, there is no quick fixes at all.
Yep, agree. Most managers that come into a team is on the basis that things need fixing. The things you mentioned could be applicable to any. Does anyone not think that Utd were the only team with grumpy players who are pissed off cause they don't want to be there or cause they aren't playing? We all work in environments not too dissimilar but what would happen if you got rid of them all overnight and even worse didn't replace them. Great got rid of the deadwood but now the business as folded. We have all been in working environments where there are staff shortages, you get staff in, even if it's not the solution but can offer some cover so you are not running into the ground what you have left.

You can have injuries but let's not be selective in want we choose to remember. This poor form started when we had those players and despite a full summer, we pretty much started where we left off. It's amazing how the best managers are always the luckiest eh!!!!!

If there are no quick fixes we are screwed because this is the worst situation the club as been in since the start of the prem. You can have a poor manager who can't motivate good players or a good manager that can motivate poor players but we have poor manager and players.
 

Sky1981

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Not replacing players who have seen their day. This summer we brought in 3 good players, but everyone knew that we should have also replaced Herrera and Lukaku.
It all went haywire after Fergie retired. Some say he left a team that was over the hill. This team had run away with the Premiership by 11 points, ffs. Changing a couple of players each window could have kept us challenging for years. instead Moyes wanted to do things his way including getting rid of the staff that Fergie left behind.
This has continued with every manager we have brought in since.
LVG and his "Philosophy" Backwards and sideways football.
Mourinho with his defensive football.
We are now left with a lot of deadwood and need a huge rebuild, but it will only keep getting worse, as we keep changing managers. Every new manager sets us back another 3/4 years and unless we give them time, we will never get back to where we belong.
If we give atkinson time fergie wouldnt have happened.

If we sack fergie before that year 6 none of him would've happened.

It's still not a clear case of giving time. It's more on who you'd give them to
 

Litch

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Just getting us playing good football and into top four contention would be a start. Is he capable of this?
Absolutely Not....hope the irony wasn't lost to you.
 

dove

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If we give atkinson time fergie wouldnt have happened.

If we sack fergie before that year 6 none of him would've happened.

It's still not a clear case of giving time. It's more on who you'd give them to
How can some people not grasp it is beyond me. I am OK giving time to someone who has recently showed he can build a successful team playing good football (Klopp at Dortmund). I just don't understand how can people be OK with giving a "3 year rebuilding" job to a nothing manager like Ole, seeing us getting worse and worse every match and just hoping it will magically change. The obvious sign that it won't change is that we started this season exactly where we left off last season, terribly. Ole's appointment has been a complete disaster.
 

ash_86

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How is that in any way relevant to the response he made? What did he say that was wrong?

Solskjaer has made 3 whole signings so far. It's also a short sample size. Mkhitaryan, Bailly, Kagawa, Lukaku etc. were regarded as successes too once upon a time. Let's cool it on the whole success stories just yet eh?

The jury is well & truly out on his squad planning so far though.

Let's not forget he has been here since last December. He was the one who after time to assess, was happy with his squad at the start of the season.

He was all too happy to see Lukaku, Fellaini, Sanchez & Smalling leave. He declared his players were ready.

He wasn't forced to overpay for Maguire was he? He could have used the funds to buy a midfielder or forward instead. I would question whether this opportunity cost along with losing Smalling was smart planning. The improvement so far over Smalling is negligible at best.

Op was saying we just went for obvious choices that we know would make impact right away. So how have we not done this under previous managers? If so why is our squad filled with deadwood even after spending close to a billion pounds?

We have made 3 good signings and that's showing up immediately. We have one of the best defense in the league and concede very less shots. All our defenders are comfortable with the ball at their feet. A very good quality to have to build up from back. Maguire would walk into any defence in our league including city and Livepool. Could you say the same about smalling?

We could have gone for a 30m defender and invested rest on other areas of pitch. But that's the thinking that made the deadwoods in the first place. Rojo, lindelof, balily all bought for less money but you don't know what you're going to get with them.

I'm sad we didn't invest in midfield and attack last summer but I'm happy we aren't buying just because we need numbers.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Incredible to think we won the league in 2013. Heck, we finished 2nd two seasons ago and now, whether serious or not, theres talk of relegation.

Regardless of other circumstances, its incredible that our club has fallen to this low. Never would have imagined when SAF retired.

I think Ole has done a great job in dropping standards to a bare minimum.
Solskjaer's isn't responsible either for the mess we got ourselves into or for the lowering of the standards. He's just another individual who enjoyed the great fortune of having the job of his dreams fall right into his lap, for reasons that had nothing to do with his actual abilities, and now that's he's failing miserably, he's holding desperately onto whatever he can so that he will not lose what was gifted to him. Our current predicament is the direct result of a series of bad decisions (with Solskjaer made the permanent manager being one of them) from the suits. The lowering of expectations is occurring because a good portion of the fanbase chooses to treat the managerial seat of Manchester United as the Excalibur that only the Chosen One can pull out of the stone. And the incompetent board plays along because... well, of their incompetence. Imagine a meeting with Ed... Why bother with finding a solution when the manager himself will never utter a complaint while the team gets worse? Might as well get the 100 million for Pogba, spend half of it on Longstaff and pocket the rest. We only have to sell it as "the new British core who will respect the badge" and claim that in 5-6 years we'll have the team ready. What is that you're saying "Di Maria's angel"? The manager will protest? Of course, he won't. Trying to sell a good publicity line to the top Reds is all he's got left. Don't you worry a bit, he'll never say anything bad about us.
 

Bestietom

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If we give atkinson time fergie wouldnt have happened.

If we sack fergie before that year 6 none of him would've happened.

It's still not a clear case of giving time. It's more on who you'd give them to
You can't use this excuse. It's like asking, would we be in this state if Fergie hadn't retired, or the Glazers hadn't taken over.
We are just TRYING to be sensible, mate . In giving our opinion on what we think went wrong since Fergie left. IF's and But's are not going to change things. We need to get top players in here ASAP no matter who is in charge. If Ole is not the right one, then will we be sure the next one is. That's the big question, and we will most likely keep asking this question year after year until we eventually give someone a chance.
 

elnorte

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Absolutely Not....hope the irony wasn't lost to you.
No, I understand what you're saying. It's just nigh-on impossible to convince those who are forever defending him to answer the basic question of whether he's actually a capable manager or not. They are always so evasive about it.
 

Litch

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If we give atkinson time fergie wouldnt have happened.

If we sack fergie before that year 6 none of him would've happened.

It's still not a clear case of giving time. It's more on who you'd give them to
Agree. I wish it was a science and 'giving time' equated to success. If that was the case, why didn't people have the same passion to give Moyes more time? Not sure aside from club Legend why he should and if that's the case, why didn't we appoint Hughes or Bruce as they were club legends too. In fact they have more experience.....
 

Litch

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No, I understand what you're saying. It's just nigh-on impossible to convince those who are forever defending him to answer the basic question of whether he's actually a capable manager or not. They are always so evasive about it.
It seems club legend buys you a lot of time, even if it's to the detriment of the club. It's crazy as people are prepared to give him time when he has absolutely no history or track record of proving that with time, he can be a success. Crap comparison but fans are quick to write off players after one season but are prepared to give Ole time but without no foundation to say he's the right person to give it aside from him being a legend here. Like said elsewhere, if that's the case we should have appointed Hughie or Brucie.
 

b82REZ

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Add in Lingard.

So we’ve had 3/4 of our first team out. Wan Bisaka and James have missed games. We lost a player in the warm up last time ffs.
But yeah, we’ve only had “two injuries.”
I never said we only had two injuries.

Considering the flak Lingard gets on here I doubt even the Ole acolytes will claim he would have made much difference.
 

ayushreddevil9

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Bailly, Pogba, Matic, Shaw, Tuanzebe, Dalot. We've literally just got Martial back.

That certainly isn't "2 players".

Talking about rational statements while not making rational statements; an incredible lack of self-awareness.
You include 3 players which Ole doesn't rate or are complete trash. You have tuanzebe and bailly who wouldn't start ahead of Lindelof and Maguire. Same for Matic who won't start ahead of Scott and Pogba.

As i said, entertainment.
 
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b82REZ

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Not saying it's right or wrong but ain't that what most of the caf wanted to do?

All I remember is posts like "Play Greenwood" "Give Gomes a run"
And that's the problem. Ole is acting like a supporter in many ways. Constant reference to the "United Way", promoting youth, even if it isn't the right thing to do in terms of their development.
 

Greck

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Won’t be sacked yet, even if we drop points/lose today.
Honestly not in a hurry to see him leave. I just hope that when the time comes that certain candidates become available we are willing to make the switch.

This "2 more windows" thing is doing my head in. Who says "manager x is failing so let's leave him in charge for another 40 games and see what happens"?. Mental. We've invented this system where managers can only be judged in increments of 100m net spend and now we're not supposed to assess his performance till after his next 100m
 
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Bestietom

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No, I understand what you're saying. It's just nigh-on impossible to convince those who are forever defending him to answer the basic question of whether he's actually a capable manager or not. They are always so evasive about it.
If they are evasive in answering the question, it is still their right and their opinion. This should be respected and not questioned every post.
I will give my view openly. I want Ole to be given time, but only because I see it as fair. He brought in 3 very good players in the summer and if he had got replacements for Herrera and Lukaku I think we would be further up that table.
If I didn't feel he can do a job I would hold my hand up and say "sack him" legend or not. I said at the start of the season ( if you go back on my posts) that a few injuries, and we could be in big trouble.
We are very thin in Midfield and Attack and a couple of players could fix this. But we need 4/5 players to even think about a challenge for top 4. No matter who the manager is.
 
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JonDahl

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You include 3 players which Ole doesn't rate or are complete trash. You have tuanzebe and bailly who wouldn't start ahead of Lindelof and Maguire. Same for Matic who won't start ahead of Scott and Pogba.

As i said, entertainment.
I haven't said anything about how good the players are or who would/wouldn't start. Stop making up arguments.

We don't have "2 injured players". This is a fact. Saying that we do is a pointless irrational statement, which you seem to think is rational.

As I said, lack of self-awareness.
 

wr8_utd

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If we don't win our next 2 league games and lose to Chelsea, hopefully he's gone then. Knowing us though, just like last season, we'll wait way too long to rectify the situation.
 

b82REZ

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I haven't said anything about how good the players are or who would/wouldn't start. Stop making up arguments.

We don't have "2 injured players". This is a fact. Saying that we do is a pointless irrational statement, which you seem to think is rational.

As I said, lack of self-awareness.
I don't think they meant it literally.

We have 2 players injured who would be in our "best 11".
 

Judas

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If we don't win our next 2 league games and lose to Chelsea, hopefully he's gone then. Knowing us though, just like last season, we'll wait way too long to rectify the situation.
To be honest we didn't wait too long. Ole had more than enough time to get us top 4 last season and fecked it up.
 

Mr angry

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Last time united went down it was 6 years after winning the European Cup. 6 years now since SAF retired... Just saying
 

JonDahl

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We have 2 players injured who would be in our "best 11".
Yes, I agree. However, disregarding players just because they aren't first 11 starters is pointless and disingenuous. They are part of the squad and would have got games and contributed (how much/little isn't the point), unless you think they'd have made 0 appearances even if they were fit the whole season - which is why I said the point was moot.
 

Di Maria's angel

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You include 3 players which Ole doesn't rate or are complete trash. You have tuanzebe and bailly who wouldn't start ahead of Lindelof and Maguire. Same for Matic who won't start ahead of Scott and Pogba.

As i said, entertainment.
Besides, I thought all our players were shit anyway?
 

Lentwood

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You know Martial and Pogs played when we were losing games too. You know Ole has been playing Pogs as a DM. Have you seen our midfield? You know how hard it is to attract quality without CL? Pogs is def off when he gets the chance. It's all about opinions I guess but that team for me needs a LB, DM, CM, AM, CF minimum. That's probably 400m.....
It possibly needs £400m to win a title but it doesn’t need £400m to get top four, it needs a goalscorer and a #10

Then once we’re regularly a CL side again we will be able to attract/afford the likes of Joao Felix and Frenkie De Jong who can really kick us on to the next level as they develop

Ideally, if we can aim to bring through one or two young lads every year as genuine first team squad players we can concentrate on quality over quantity
 

b82REZ

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Yes, I agree. However, disregarding players just because they aren't first 11 starters is pointless and disingenuous. They are part of the squad and would have got games and contributed (how much/little isn't the point), unless you think they'd have made 0 appearances even if they were fit the whole season - which is why I said the point was moot.
I do think some of them wouldn't have had any appearances
 

SteveW

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I just want to to register my distaste for the OP. Useless excuse for a supporter.
 

ayushreddevil9

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I haven't said anything about how good the players are or who would/wouldn't start. Stop making up arguments.

We don't have "2 injured players". This is a fact. Saying that we do is a pointless irrational statement, which you seem to think is rational.

As I said, lack of self-awareness.
Okay. Do you think apart from 2 first team players if others were available, it would have made any difference?
 

Jonno

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We've had one big injury in martial. Pogba was out for 2-3 weeks. The rest is pretty normal case of 1 week out. Hardly a major crisis.

You're making it as it half of our squad is on 3months injury.

Apart from martial, everything else was considered normal season.
no we haven’t, we’ve had Shaw out for nearly all our season, Pogba out for most of the season, Martial for a good half of our season, Dalot out for nearly all season so far, this is a spine of our team, for most of the season. This is incredibly damaging, having to rely on Young, Fred, Pereira in the starting 11, Plus all the others I mentioned chipping in and being injured, damaging our hopes more so.

I have absolutely no time for people who lie about facts to try win arguments and slant their opinion unfairly. I don’t think Ole is good enough, but don’t just plain lie that we’ve had 2 injuries all season, we’ve had about 10-12
 

Sky1981

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no we haven’t, we’ve had Shaw out for nearly all our season, Pogba out for most of the season, Martial for a good half of our season, Dalot out for nearly all season so far, this is a spine of our team, for most of the season. This is incredibly damaging, having to rely on Young, Fred, Pereira in the starting 11, Plus all the others I mentioned chipping in and being injured, damaging our hopes more so.

I have absolutely no time for people who lie about facts to try win arguments and slant their opinion unfairly. I don’t think Ole is good enough, but don’t just plain lie that we’ve had 2 injuries all season, we’ve had about 10-12
Our season is 9 games in you drama queen