Solskjaer and Woodwards plan - When will it start, and is there even one?

Fosu-Mens

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@Lentwood

Mourinho: His approach to football is not effective anymore. I agree that his 2nd place finish with us was his greatest achievement, but looking behind the points gathered indicates that this was an anomaly in regards to statistics and could be contributed to DDG having the best season in his life and us being somewhat lucky.

Regarding OGS and the future: This is related to Mourinho and his approach. If we have a manager that relies on what is seemingly a similar approach to Mourinho, we will never get far in the league. We might have a chance in the EL since a pragmatic approach still got some validity against teams willing to control the ball against us, but over time it is not feasible for a top finish in long competitions. And the longer we play this way, the further behind the best teams in the world we will fall.

Number of transfers: Why are other teams able to buy a number of players during a window then? Is it just that it is more difficult for Manchester United? I seriously doubt it. I agree that it is not like FIFA or Football Manager, but then again it is not "rocket science either. If we are unable to do it, it just means that our people involved with it are not competent (Woodward/Judge/transfer group).

Reasons for optimism: Certain youngsters at the club with the abilities needed to be able to play the type of football that would be competitive in today's football (technical, possession-oriented --> systematically breaking down a balanced defence, occasionally high press, accurate and consistent short/long passing and handling of the ball, operating as a unit, not 11 separate entities).
Greenwood and Laird as the most promising players with Williams, Levitt, Garner +++ as players that could make it.
I cannot see how you think that our current non-technical or possession-oriented approach to football will suddenly become an effective means to win enough games over time. Football has changed in the last 10 years.
 

Lentwood

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Number of transfers: Why are other teams able to buy a number of players during a window then? Is it just that it is more difficult for Manchester United? I seriously doubt it. I agree that it is not like FIFA or Football Manager, but then again it is not "rocket science either. If we are unable to do it, it just means that our people involved with it are not competent (Woodward/Judge/transfer group).
I don't think other clubs of our size do though, do they? I can't think of a situation where a big club has bought in 6/7 'big' players in one window and it's been a success?
 

Fosu-Mens

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Lentwood

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That's just a big list of all the transfers that happened in the summer without any analysis or comment from you.

I didn't say it was impossible to sign 6/7 players in one window (we've done it recently under LvG) - I'm saying it's impossible to do that AND do it well. Invariably we would just end up with the usual mix of one/two good players, one/two mediocre players and one/two flops that needed to be shifted ASAP

Even if we did look at your list, Atletico Madrid had the highest expenditure this summer gone....which of those players would you want at Utd long-term? Arguably Joao Felix is a fantastic prospect but would have blown our budget and would have needed time to adapt. The others just look like a collection of decent/good journeymen or youngesters who as far as I'm aware, haven't exactly been tearing it up

This is where I'm different to most posters. I don't obsess or fantasise over signings. I'm happy with a couple of quality players every Summer. We shouldn't be taking the approach of 'ah well, long as they're better than Lingard, Mata, Pereira etc...that's a step in the right direction'....because that's the opposite of what we need right now
 

Fosu-Mens

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That's just a big list of all the transfers that happened in the summer without any analysis or comment from you.

I didn't say it was impossible to sign 6/7 players in one window (we've done it recently under LvG) - I'm saying it's impossible to do that AND do it well. Invariably we would just end up with the usual mix of one/two good players, one/two mediocre players and one/two flops that needed to be shifted ASAP

Even if we did look at your list, Atletico Madrid had the highest expenditure this summer gone....which of those players would you want at Utd long-term? Arguably Joao Felix is a fantastic prospect but would have blown our budget and would have needed time to adapt. The others just look like a collection of decent/good journeymen or youngesters who as far as I'm aware, haven't exactly been tearing it up

This is where I'm different to most posters. I don't obsess or fantasise over signings. I'm happy with a couple of quality players every Summer. We shouldn't be taking the approach of 'ah well, long as they're better than Lingard, Mata, Pereira etc...that's a step in the right direction'....because that's the opposite of what we need right now
The point was regarding the number of transfers made. This shows the total transfers made since SAF and Gill left:
https://www.transfermarkt.com/trans...&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=false&intern=1

We have made 29 transfers, which is the lowest with the second highest "balance". There are some clubs with similar numbers as us (Bayern, Tottenham and Real Madrid in regards to nr. of transfers made), but most of the teams have a much higher number of transfers. One can speculate what the reason for this is, but we seem to be really slow or inefficient at making deals. The amount spent on transfers since SAF left has never been the issue in itself, albeit the squad he left us with needed major reinvestment over a short period of time.

If we were able to sign 2 quality players(subjective, but at least sign players that are suited to how successful football is played today) and 1 or 2 cheaper but capable squad players with potential then we should be very happy over time. Then again, given the squad we had going into the summer, there was an obvious need for more than 2/3 capable players. Instead, we spent big on two players that have obvious weaknesses in their game... If we had people competent in the process of buying players we might have been able to sign more players, and finding players for cheap that would at least improve our squad would not be very difficult. I understand that "as long as they are better than Lingard" is not what we should aim for, but there is a big difference between his level and the players that could have been bought for a relatively low price.

Which of these two lists would you want?
1. Maguire, AWB, James.
2. Alderweireld/Ake, Meunier, Pellegrini, Zyiech, Partey.
 

Chesterlestreet

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We shouldn't be taking the approach of 'ah well, long as they're better than Lingard, Mata, Pereira etc...that's a step in the right direction'....because that's the opposite of what we need right now
Agreed.

We need a strategy for targeting a certain player profile. Not individual players who are better than, say, Jesse Lingard individually (hardly a grand challenge if you can offer silly money to whoever you go after).
 

iKeano

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Let's not be deluded folks. The only plan Woodward has is to make himself and our dark American overlords, richer and richer.
Olé without doubt has the interests of the club at heart, but clearly hasn't got the ability or technical know-how (not to mention the backing) to make it happen.
I genuinely believe at this stage that our only solution is to let the Glazers bleed the club dry & sell up. Until then we're just a money making machine for people that don't care about anything or anyone other than themselves.
 

RedNed77

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I’ve seen quite a few derisory posts about our so called brexit based team building and alongside that people questioning Ole’s plan. Which is fair enough, people are entitled to their opinion.

I was at the game today and watching Williams et al and thinking, is it impossible for Ole to build a team made largely from our academy with a couple of astute purchases and wondered what we may look like in 18 months time. Some of the below will depend on him getting what appear to be long term targets and some of the youth fulfilling expectations. So the question is what are the thoughts on the potential team below, likelihood of the youth actually turning out as anticipated and what would be the ceiling of the team if it all goes sunshine and lollipops, would we be happy with an entirely British 11 on occasion when all are fit?

———————Henderson————————

-AWB - Tuanzebe - Maguire - Williams-

———-—-McTominay - Garner—————

——-Sancho - Madison - Rashford———

———————-Greenwood————————
 

TheReligion

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I’ve seen quite a few derisory posts about our so called brexit based team building and alongside that people questioning Ole’s plan. Which is fair enough, people are entitled to their opinion.

I was at the game today and watching Williams et al and thinking, is it impossible for Ole to build a team made largely from our academy with a couple of astute purchases and wondered what we may look like in 18 months time. Some of the below will depend on him getting what appear to be long term targets and some of the youth fulfilling expectations. So the question is what are the thoughts on the potential team below, likelihood of the youth actually turning out as anticipated and what would be the ceiling of the team if it all goes sunshine and lollipops, would we be happy with an entirely British 11 on occasion when all are fit?

———————Henderson————————

-AWB - Tuanzebe - Maguire - Williams-

———-—-McTominay - Garner—————

——-Sancho - Madison - Rashford———

———————-Greenwood————————
That's great to see isn't it
 

Hughie77

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We are linked to everyone in every transfer window,! Agents, press all put it out to fish who were supposedly going in for. This window is always a difficult one, most players won't leave there clubs in Jan unless they want to, clubs won't sell unless they have to.
Plus UTD has a poor record in transfer market of late, unless we throw a massive amount , we do hopefully sign a CM this window of quality, I'd also like a CF even if we get one on loan, but seems we don't do Larsson kind of deal anymore.?
 

red woppit

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If we sign two players, then that would be great, as Ole has said we will only sign players who will improve the team and who WANT to play for Manchester United. We have Baillie and Tuanzebe almost ready to play, TFM who will be possibly be available in a couple of weeks, Greenwood looking better each game. Gomes needs more minutes, and Garner and Levitt both coming back from illness and injury we don't need panic buys, but probably a CM would help. Although we're always linked with loads of players, 90% of which are rubbish, and created by agents or journalists, we have posters who will always have a dig at the club for not buying most of these guys. Whatever supporters think, the best placed people are those who watch these guys week in and week out.