Solskjaer is a worryingly easy out for the Glazers

#07

makes new threads with tweets in the OP
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
23,258
Disagree with the OP.

Ole is actually a patron of MUST and one of the few United first team players at the time of the Glazer takeover who publicly opposed it.

If Ole gets the job it would be because the results have markedly improved. Further, if Ole gets the job and the board didn't back him for whatever reason the liklihood that the fans would calmly let them screw him over is for the birds.

Ole is almost unanimously loved by United fans. If the crowd at Old Trafford felt the board was hanging Ole out to dry it would erupt in a way that hasn't been seen since the green and gold protests. The crowd backed Jose for a bit, just because they thought the board was doing bad by him. Could you imagine how the crowd would be if they felt the board was doing over a guy who, unlike Jose, literally everyone adores?
 

Ish

Lights on for Luke
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
32,053
Location
Voted the best city in the world
Disagree with the OP.

Ole is actually a patron of MUST and one of the few United first team players at the time of the Glazer takeover who publicly opposed it.

If Ole gets the job it would be because the results have markedly improved. Further, if Ole gets the job and the board didn't back him for whatever reason the liklihood that the fans would calmly let them screw him over is for the birds.

Ole is almost unanimously loved by United fans. If the crowd at Old Trafford felt the board was hanging Ole out to dry it would erupt in a way that hasn't been seen since the green and gold protests. The crowd backed Jose for a bit, just because they thought the board was doing bad by him. Could you imagine how the crowd would be if they felt the board was doing over a guy who, unlike Jose, literally everyone adores?
Yep, a guy who we all (almost) unanimously call a United legend.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
the issue was that Jose discussed those two or three players and when the time to make the final decision he throws out names that no one has ever discussed in the past. All new names. His transfer policy has been extremely poor at United for sure. I do not know about his other clubs.

As for Ole no he is here right now till the end of the season. If he can get this team going with the current players the Board will back him and keep him. If he cannot then he is willing to go and the Board will bring another Manager. I hope that he succeeds.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
When Ed signed LvG, he clearly made a statement that we had scouted LvG keeping his Barca and Ajax playing style in mind. So the club viewed LvG as taking us in the direction of Cruyff-ball, or something like it. The boring style was never on their minds, which was due to their incompetence -- maybe they thought the international games were one-offs.

If I remember correctly, Bayern actually complained LvG's football was too attacking with no defensive nous!! I think Lahm made a statement to the effect. Whatever he did there, it was a polar opposite to what he did with us, with just the results being equally crap.

Mourinho's Madrid style was quite fantastic at it's peak, I remember many hoping he could recreate it. Personally, I expected him to as well.



Sorry, the only fault lies in Ed's incompetence in not seeing they were both past it. You are tacitly absolving LvG and Jose of blame, as though the shite they produced with us is what they played throughout their careers. Surely you don't think that having seen their hey-days.
Here're 2 quotes about LVG's time at Bayern from their board :

https://www.goal.com/en/news/15/ger...-uli-hoeness-louis-van-gaal-was-nearly-sacked

"Under Louis van Gaal, I learned one thing: you can have one of the best experts but if it's not fun, I do not want him in charge. I want success for this club but even more, I want there to be fun in football," he added.
"The team certainly were too nice. We had no yellow cards or hard fouls. That was not the players, it was the system. Louis van Gaal believed that you can look away when the opponent has the ball," he added.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...van-gaals-sacking-in-2011-sounds-familiar-now

He added one comment that is hauntingly pertinent to the position Van Gaal finds himself in at Old Trafford: "Football should be enjoyable, but there has been nothing enjoyable about football at FC Bayern for a while now."
LVG did nothing new here since what he has been doing since his Bayern days : Play a tumescent defensive possession based football to keep the opponent from having the ball while giving only one attacking player freedom to create (Robben/Martial). He applied his style here perfectly, it was just shite. It was our mistake for scouting and bringing expecting different things.

Similarly we brought Mourinho who, except for 2 or 3 seasons in his career, has been always about winning ugly and grinding wins, then expected him to play differently here. Doesn't make sense.

It's our problem at this point. You signed 2 defensively based managers (in different ways) then expected them to play different kind of football here. I hate LVG myself, but the point is he shouldn't have been appointed from the start if the target was great football, same for Mourinho. The problem both didn't win much here to cover for their style of play, unlike their previous teams.

These things are from the past now. What doesn't make sense now is thinking about making the same mistake again, bringing a manager who proved several times with Spurs his limits is top 4 finish and expecting him to lead to the glory days and trophies like Poch. How can that be possible ? I thought we have already learned.

If Spurs don't have a winning mentality it's down to their manager. Their main lineup is 3rd best in the league at least. Their squad depth issues is the same for all other top clubs in the league bar City. There're no excuses for them to crumple under the slightest pressure when they're close to win something. If they can't handle pressure and don't have winning mentality, it's their manager's problem in installing it to them, and provide warning signings that he may fail under a more stressful job as United or Madrid.

If we want Poch, we have to accept he's going to offer what he has been providing : top 4, decent football and beating some big teams. Does that warrant us to throw 40m at him while we can get the same or more with other easier choices as Ole or Jardim ? So far Poch has provided zero indications he's going to offer more than both.
 

Bubz27

No I won’t change your tag line
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
21,502
The idea that Glazers want to run the club at the lowest cost possible is wrong.
Maybe, but the idea of any businessman wanting to save potentially hundreds of millions of they can get a good job out of something much cheaper isn't exactly unheard of.

Especially from owners who have in the past shown that top 4, and the money that comes with that, is important to them.

On the other hand, another dud could cost them more than a few hundred million.
 

Red_toad

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
11,587
Location
DownUnder
The idea that Glazers want to run the club at the lowest cost possible is wrong.
No one is saying the lowest possible cost. More keeping their own personal revenue high and keeping the club on an arsenal type budget as long as top 4 happens. They sure have history for this with Tampa. It can also be seen at United, no major investment unless top four doesn't happen.
 

Kapardin

New Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
9,917
Location
Chennai, India
Here're 2 quotes about LVG's time at Bayern from their board :

https://www.goal.com/en/news/15/ger...-uli-hoeness-louis-van-gaal-was-nearly-sacked





https://bleacherreport.com/articles...van-gaals-sacking-in-2011-sounds-familiar-now



LVG did nothing new here since what he has been doing since his Bayern days : Play a tumescent defensive possession based football to keep the opponent from having the ball while giving only one attacking player freedom to create (Robben/Martial). He applied his style here perfectly, it was just shite. It was our mistake for scouting and bringing expecting different things.
Those quotes say the players weren't having fun due to the tactical strait-jacket, not that it wasn't attacking. Here's what Lahm says:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11890/6873523/lahm-voiced-van-gaal-concerns

We played an attacking style," he told BILD. "We always took a lot of risks going forward. "Often we were too far up on the pitch and left space for opposition teams to make too many goalscoring opportunities.
Here's what Ed said on hiring LvG:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...ouis-van-gaals-attacking-football-3886382.amp

He's got incredible energy and very importantly he likes attacking football," said Woodward. "If you remember the Barcelona team [he managed] in the late '90s, who played incredible, attacking football, and those games we had against them in '98/99, that’s the kind of football Manchester United fans love. It’s part of our DNA. "The second part of what he likes is giving youth a chance. He’s got a track record littered with giving young players a break in the first team, who have gone on to be stars. Clearly that’s Manchester United’s philosophy and we want him to continue with that.
Clearly, LvG sold Ed the dream that he could recreate his glory days here. So they ignored the fact that he was past it.

Similarly we brought Mourinho who, except for 2 or 3 seasons in his career, has been always about winning ugly and grinding wins, then expected him to play differently here. Doesn't make sense.
Mourinho was attacking with Chelsea (1st season) and Madrid. He was always pragmatic, but it was never the mess we saw here, or quite as boring bar some big games where he parked the bus.

Woodward hired him on the presumption that we would see some good counter attacking football and a few goals, having seen possession footy didn't work. He hired an outdated manager again, as Mourinho's method of man-management does not work anymore to coax those exemplary performances from players.

It's our problem at this point. You signed 2 defensively based managers (in different ways) then expected them to play different kind of football here. I hate LVG myself, but the point is he shouldn't have been appointed from the start if the target was great football, same for Mourinho.

These things are from the past now. What doesn't make sense now is thinking about making the same mistake again, bringing a manager who proved several times with Spurs his limits is top 4 finish and expecting him to lead to the glory days and trophies like Poch. How can that be possible ? I thought we have already learned.

If Spurs don't have a winning mentality it's down to their manager. Their main lineup is 3rd best in the league at least. Their squad depth issues is the same for all other top clubs in the league bar City. There're no excuses for them to crumple under the slightest pressure when they're close to win something. If they can't handle pressure and don't have winning mentality, it's their manager's problem in installing it to them, and provide warning signings that he may fail under a more stressful job as United or Madrid.
We signed two out of date managers, period. As for your concern about Poch, it's quite baseless as every top manager has trophies as his aim. Just because he hasn't won a LC or FA Cup with Spurs doesn't mean he won't succeed here as one needs to provide managers with proper psychological motivations as well -- a good transfer budget, a sense of job security and a tolerant fanbase.

Poch has some faults but they can be ironed out at a big club like ours. His progression is logical. But I won't say more on this until he's hired, as that isn't even a given yet.
 

Mindhunter

Full Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
3,629
This is a hopelessly negative thread. Why are we resorting to hopeless fearmongering just after being released from the spell of the most boring manager ever.

The idea that somehow Pocchetino can force Glazers to spend more on the club is laughable. Look at home much he is making Levy spend. FFS, he doesn’t even have the authority to sanction sales early in the window - Levy always haggles till the very end, thus disrupting his plans.

Glazers have spend too much money. In fact, because we had the money, we haven’t used our fecking brains in the last few years. More than money, what this team needs right now is a definite structure and a long term vision. Only then can you fit in the right pieces for success.
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
25,535
Location
Sydney
This is a hopelessly negative thread. Why are we resorting to hopeless fearmongering just after being released from the spell of the most boring manager ever.

The idea that somehow Pocchetino can force Glazers to spend more on the club is laughable. Look at home much he is making Levy spend. FFS, he doesn’t even have the authority to sanction sales early in the window - Levy always haggles till the very end, thus disrupting his plans.

Glazers have spend too much money. In fact, because we had the money, we haven’t used our fecking brains in the last few years. More than money, what this team needs right now is a definite structure and a long term vision. Only then can you fit in the right pieces for success.
Nah it's really not laughable. If they're gonna convince him to leave his project they'll need to make some big assurances.
 

Mindhunter

Full Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
3,629
Nah it's really not laughable. If they're gonna convince him to leave his project they'll need to make some big assurances.
It is laughable, considering how much Poch has spent at Tottenham, and how much we spend anyways with our managers every year.

We are talking about a manager who unearthed players like Kane, Ali, and Son.
 

Foxbatt

New Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
14,297
Why should United even try to get him to leave Spurs if Ole can make it work?
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
25,535
Location
Sydney
It is laughable, considering how much Poch has spent at Tottenham, and how much we spend anyways with our managers every year.

We are talking about a manager who unearthed players like Kane, Ali, and Son.
you keep ignoring the reason and talking about something different
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
Those quotes say the players weren't having fun due to the tactical strait-jacket, not that it wasn't attacking. Here's what Lahm says:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11890/6873523/lahm-voiced-van-gaal-concerns





Mourinho was attacking with Chelsea (1st season) and Madrid. He was always pragmatic, but it was never the mess we saw here, or quite as boring bar some big games where he parked the bus.



We signed two out of date managers, period. As for your concern about Poch, it's quite baseless as every top manager has trophies as his aim. Just because he hasn't won a LC or FA Cup with Spurs doesn't mean he won't succeed here as one needs to provide managers with proper psychological motivations as well -- a good transfer budget, a sense of job security and a tolerant fanbase.

Poch has some faults but they can be ironed out at a big club like ours. His progression is logical. But I won't say more on this until he's hired, as that isn't even a given yet.
Players usually say nice things about managers either there currently or after they left. Our players too said nice things about LVG and Mourinho. I remember Shaw said Mourinho was letting his fullbacks both upfront and attacking. Here it's. Was that right ?

http://thepeoplesperson.com/2016/08...tacking-football-at-manchester-united-157650/

The main base here is what the board says about managers as they don't talk diplomatic, and "players weren't having fun due to the tactical strait-jacket" actually equals having a tumescent possession based system that restricted everyone which is what he exactly did here.

Poch has all these with Spurs except for the transfer budget which is a useless argument as again, they're not underdogs. They have several players that will go straight into all the other top clubs without issues. The values of players like Kane, Eriksen and Alli is extremely huge in the current market and the top clubs will struggle to buy them for the fees asked for him, so he's not working on thin ice. Actually their full attacking line will go straight into our lineup, and his defensive choices are better than ours as well, and you can't convince me his lineup isn't as strong as Liverpool's one on paper. This isn't an underdog team.

He already has a pretty strong team, stronger than several other top clubs here and he has failed to install any winning mentality on them or make them tougher under pressure. If a team keeps crumpling under pressure every time, you can't simply absolve the manager of the blame and say it's the team in general, doesn't make any sense. It's his problem at this point. His teams struggle whenever they're put under spot and media talks about them being title winning potential. Spurs seem to only win when no one expects things from them. How is that not their manager's problem ?

These are definitely warning signings you have to put in consideration when targeting him as the next manager. So far he proved he can get you top 4 regularly and play decent football, but he has proved nothing about, I won't say winning trophies, nope, I'll say proving he can make his team tough under pressure and endure high expectations when they arise. It's easy to win when things aren't expected from you but the fact that once people start to expect high things from Spurs then they go on and bottle the next match to return to be a non favorite for anything, it's extremely worrying sign about his mentality as a manager and how he prepares his team in such situations.
 
Last edited:

reddaz71

New Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2015
Messages
960
Location
Cheshire
He won't call Woodward and the Glazers out like Mourinho so regardless of his standing with the fans he is essentially a yes man and a PR stunt, Ole is just happy to be here and tow the line as in fact he already is doing so by complimenting the structure of the club!
 

Gasolin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
6,106
Location
NYC
Right bunch of optimists we have here... Manager has won 5 in 5, but that's now "worrying". Wonder what would happen if we tonked Spurs and Arsenal and PSG. Would you guys be suicidal with rage at the thought that he would be appointed in the summer?
:lol::lol::lol:

Well we are damned no matter what then.
I do hope that we beat Spurs, City, Liverpool and PSG though.
 

Henrik Larsson

Still logged in at RAWK (help!)
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
5,421
Location
Swashbucklington
The fact that Manchester United has spent a serious amount of money over the last years really shouldn't be confused with the fact that that pretty much everything indicates that the Glazers are mostly interested in doing the bare minimum to keep their club competitive, while making a significant yearly profit for themselves as well.
 

worldinmotion66

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
2,028
Sorry @haram but you seem so desperate to defend Mourinho that you are finding every excuse to not blame him (are you actually the man himself? :eek:)

If I were running a football club and my manager had spent upwards of £400m, in the way that he chose to, and having bought two centre backs previously, I'd begin to question his ability to make these type of decisions. No one can argue that the Glaziers aren't in it for the money, they clearly are, but it's unfair to criticise their willingness to spend. Our net spend is greater than most of the sides above us in the league, so spending has never been the issue. How it has been spent is another issue entirely. Whether Mourinho had complete control over transfers is debatable, but he simply didn't get enough from the talent at his disposal.

On topic, I think it is easy out if he is relatively successful. The owners want us to be competing with the best, they know that it's important to keep the money rolling in. Let's just wait and see how the season unfolds, we're still in two huge competitions and any league form would only be a massive bonus imo.
 

Mindhunter

Full Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
3,629
you keep ignoring the reason and talking about something different
You keep ignoring the style of the manager in question. Of course he will be given assurances but your premise is wrong - Glazers are not trying to run the club in the most frugal way possible.

We would spend money under any manager - not just Pocchetino. You are again taking about a board that has sanctioned millions of dollars to buy players over the last few years. Also did not hesitate to give Mourinho a fat payout just to get him to leave.

All you have to support your argument is some weird myth about how Glazers operate. Not only are you blaming them of frugality when they have invested heavily, you are also doing a massive disservice to Ole just by assuming that he doesn’t have enough ambition and just wants to get the job by being an ass licker.
 

Kapardin

New Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
9,917
Location
Chennai, India
Players usually say nice things about managers either there currently or after they left. Our players too said nice things about LVG and Mourinho. I remember Shaw said Mourinho was letting his fullbacks both upfront and attacking. Here it's. Was that right ?
That interview wasn't an encomium. Lahm was talking about the reason why LvG had failed at Bayern, not praising him.

And you yourself can read Ed's quotes as to why he hired LvG.

The main base here is what the board says about managers as they don't talk diplomatic, and "players weren't having fun due to the tactical strait-jacket" actually equals having a tumescent possession based system that restricted everyone which is what he exactly did here.
This is conjecture, simply contradicting what Lahm and Ed have said, and also ignoring LvG actually has a record of playing highly entertaining football.

Attacking possession football also "strait-jackets" players. Seen how Pep is obsessed with tactics? You are talking as though attacking football requires no tactical discipline at all. Difference is when it works, players like it as it boosts their stats as well (the forwards).

About Poch, as I said, no point in talking about him until there is evidence we are going to hire him.
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
25,535
Location
Sydney
You keep ignoring the style of the manager in question. Of course he will be given assurances but your premise is wrong - Glazers are not trying to run the club in the most frugal way possible.

We would spend money under any manager - not just Pocchetino. You are again taking about a board that has sanctioned millions of dollars to buy players over the last few years. Also did not hesitate to give Mourinho a fat payout just to get him to leave.

All you have to support your argument is some weird myth about how Glazers operate. Not only are you blaming them of frugality when they have invested heavily, you are also doing a massive disservice to Ole just by assuming that he doesn’t have enough ambition and just wants to get the job by being an ass licker.
okay great, so you agree.

I'm not actually blaming them for anything you've just invented that

I'm suggesting there is a risk their motivations might not be in the clubs best interests at this pivotal moment
 

kundalini

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2004
Messages
5,750
United's great wealth seems to have done them no good whatsoever in the post-Ferguson era. We have spent heavily on transfers, pay breath-taking salaries, yet finished 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th and a distant 2nd.

New managers have come in (LVG and Mourinho especially) and given the impression that they thought half the squad was useless, then bought players who turned out to be no better.

Get the most out of our current group of players, likewise the emerging talent from the youth set-up.

Buy one, two or three, carefully chosen players. Don't offer huge salaries. Stop assuming the answer is some glamorous signing who performed well in a totally different system. That applies as much if Pochettino is the manager, as if Solskjaer gets the job.
 
Last edited:

Gasolin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
6,106
Location
NYC
The fact that Manchester United has spent a serious amount of money over the last years really shouldn't be confused with the fact that that pretty much everything indicates that the Glazers are mostly interested in doing the bare minimum to keep their club competitive, while making a significant yearly profit for themselves as well.
I am a bit confused though. Are you saying the bare minimum was high or something?
Spending is spending.
 

Ban

New Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
Messages
26,022
Location
Zagreb, HR
Then we'd deserve everything we get, fans have to use their voice, if the Glazers appoint Ole and don't back him and fans don't get vocal about this and back Ole, it'll be a shame.
Agreed.. Thing is, remember when Fergie was restricted with finances, theres was a short period of green and gold movement and that was basically that.
 

Stepney73

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
404
Seriously? They bought the club as a business investment not as a football club. They will be looking at their return on investment. If Solskjaer does a good job. i.e gets us into the Champions League, I cannot see why they would chase Poch, which will involved paying Spurs off, when they have an option to get Solskjaer.

I can honestly see Solskjaer getting the job and next year will be the harsh reality he isn't up to scratch, a bit like Di Matteo at Chelsea. Obviously I hope i'm wrong.

What investment????

They have loaded all the takeover debt on the club and have not put one penny of their own money in.
they have just drained money out for well over a decade.

Just what does the likes of darcey glazer actually do for Utd despite being on the payroll.

They are leeches end of and the sooner they sell up and F..k Off the better.
 

Mindhunter

Full Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
3,629
okay great, so you agree.

I'm not actually blaming them for anything you've just invented that

I'm suggesting there is a risk their motivations might not be in the clubs best interests at this pivotal moment
Yeah, like we haven’t spent money under the Glazers. Again you haven’t been able to back up your concern with actual proof.
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
25,535
Location
Sydney
Yeah, like we haven’t spent money under the Glazers. Again you haven’t been able to back up your concern with actual proof.
There is nothing to prove because it hasn't happened. I'm just flagging it as a possibility.

If you don't think its a valid concern, no problem.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
That interview wasn't an encomium. Lahm was talking about the reason why LvG had failed at Bayern, not praising him.

And you yourself can read Ed's quotes as to why he hired LvG.



This is conjecture, simply contradicting what Lahm and Ed have said, and also ignoring LvG actually has a record of playing highly entertaining football.

Attacking possession football also "strait-jackets" players. Seen how Pep is obsessed with tactics? You are talking as though attacking football requires no tactical discipline at all. Difference is when it works, players like it as it boosts their stats as well (the forwards).

About Poch, as I said, no point in talking about him until there is evidence we are going to hire him.
I don't get why you're quoting Ed while his incompetence in the job is a concern we're still doubting.

The point is as I said players will always talk nicely about current and ex managers because they have to be diplomatic in front of the media. You won't hear any of our players bashing LVG or Mourinho too now. They'll talk nicely about them. The Bayern board's quotes are more of a proof as they don't talk diplomatic and Hoeness is known for talking brutal honestly without caring about choosing his words in front of the camera.

As for the Pep vs LVG, I'm sure this has been brought several times but Pep don't restrict his attackers players in his possession based football. This quote of Henry who trained under him was posted here several times as far as I'm concerned. Pep wanted discipline from his midfielders, but once the ball reaches the forwards in the final third, it's up to them to get the ball in the net and they have full freedom with where they move. The midfield area is where Pep puts his instructions to stay in position and pass the ball, up till the last third then it's up the players.

https://www.goal.com/en/news/722/la...explains-pep-guardiolas-secret-tactic-formula

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/thierry-henry-reveals-pep-guardiolas-7077518

This is different strategy from LVG's one. LVG doesn't give freedom to anyone bar 1 attacking player who keeps the attacking spark in the team. The whole rest of the team including the forwards are restricted to their positions and hence the tumescent football that extends upfront. His Bayern team was just stop Robben and it's over for them (Ironically that's what Inter did in this CL final). In Netherlands, it was Robben again and here it was Martial. That's unlike Pep who doesn't depend on a single man upfront and allows his 3 forwards up front freedom to roam everywhere while restricting the possession to midfield.

The other obvious difference is Pep wanted the team to pass forward and used his possession for offensive reasons unlike LVG who looks at possession as a means to stop the opponent from getting the ball, and he has been like that in his last 3 jobs now.

Yeah attacking football doesn't mean going full non discipline but at the same time if you're not giving some freedom to your forwards to move on their own then the result will be restricted and tumescent football. The main difference between someone like Pep and LVG is Pep knows in which areas of the pitch his players should be restricted to the plan and in which areas they should move freely, while LVG was applying this restriction to all areas of the pitch.

Anyway I think we're getting this thread out of the track. :D
 

Patrick08

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
5,447
This is a hopelessly negative thread. Why are we resorting to hopeless fearmongering just after being released from the spell of the most boring manager ever.

The idea that somehow Pocchetino can force Glazers to spend more on the club is laughable. Look at home much he is making Levy spend. FFS, he doesn’t even have the authority to sanction sales early in the window - Levy always haggles till the very end, thus disrupting his plans.

Glazers have spend too much money. In fact, because we had the money, we haven’t used our fecking brains in the last few years. More than money, what this team needs right now is a definite structure and a long term vision. Only then can you fit in the right pieces for success.

My feeling as well. Stop worrying lads.
 

Rish Sawhney

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 15, 2015
Messages
619
Location
State College
Also I don’t see what Lahm said as contradicting what the Bayern hierarchy said. What Lahm calls too attacking was tru of his United term as well. If your definition of attacking is “played a high line possession based system”.

But here people started calling it defensive because it was quite risk averse when trying to break down packed defenses. To what extent that was instruction vs. players being too timid (LvG’s post match comments about how the players have to be “horny” comes to mind) can be debated. I think it wasn’t quite as rigid as @el3mel is saying, but his general point is correct. LvG’s time with us wasn’t all that different from his previous work.
 

Mindhunter

Full Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
3,629
There is nothing to prove because it hasn't happened. I'm just flagging it as a possibility.

If you don't think its a valid concern, no problem.
There are enough data points to show that Glazers are willing to spend money. If fact, we have been spending like drunken sailors - as someone pointed out earlier. In fact, the money has actually limited our long term thinking and strategy as we have chased the short-term fix every window.

In this context, to raise the concern that Glazers might give OGS the job because he will be less demanding of them, in terms of financial resources, is unfounded. To be taken seriously, you need to show some indication or sign that this is a real possibility.
 

ottosec

Full Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
6,550
He won't call Woodward and the Glazers out like Mourinho so regardless of his standing with the fans he is essentially a yes man and a PR stunt, Ole is just happy to be here and tow the line as in fact he already is doing so by complimenting the structure of the club!
This is a two-edged sword actually.

While you might or might not be right - there is no way for you to know - it's also true that if we will be shit, no fan will blame Ole, we will all blame the Glazers and Woodward.



I keep seeing people taking it as a given that Ole is not good enough. Why is that? Is that based on his 3-4 months stint at Cardiff, who were pretty much already relegated when he took over?

People act like he is some sort of a greenboy that is just starting as a manager. But he's been managing for quite some time and he's been doing well in his part of the world, as far as I know.


I personally think that Pochettino is a good manager, but for those who think that he is some football Mesia, you'll do well to remember that he hasn't won a single trophy in his career.

Sure, he's overachieving with the resources he has at his disposal and plays good football, but how does that matter to us? We're loaded and we demand trophies.

He is yet to have a high-pressure job like United, where he must win trophies. Levy doesn't give a shit about trophies as long as he works cheap and gets them into CL every year.
 

noodlehair

"It's like..."
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Messages
16,180
Location
Flagg
This is in no way a thread to criticise Ole, who has been brilliant.

However, the skill-set we've needed for the last few weeks which Ole has basically performed perfectly, is only a small part of what we need over the coming years. After six years of abject shite, we're supposedly about to restructure with a DOF and also need a bit of a rebuild, so whoever comes in has a massive task on their hands to turn this ship around.

If the Glazers wanted Poch, for example, they'd need to deal with Levy (lets say £50m), give Poch a massive contract as well as promise Poch a big budget this summer (lets say £250m) and commit to a long term rebuild.

Ole would be much cheaper and have very little leverage to demand a transfer kitty from the owners, as he is so desperate to land the job.

Given the Glazers reluctance to back Mourinho in the summer, it looks like the purse stings might be tightening. Ole gives them the perfect chance to save a lot of money here so is anyone else, like me, concerned that money will be the deciding factor and not who is the best choice to lead this club forward?
I think if anything this argument works in favour of Ole and it should definitely be considered as a factor by the club if he does well between now and May.

If he does well, we have a manager who has already been in the job for 6 months, who has known the club a whole lot longer, who the fans like, who wants to play football the right way, who wont take most of the summer and half our spending budget to pry away from his current job.

None of these things apply by default to someone like Pochettino. What worries me more at the moment is the way Pochettino is talked about as some kind of guaranteed solution. The guy is a good manager, but he's actually not achieved anything as yet that would count as a success at United, so it's actualy impossible for anyone to say he will work out if he took the job...and he is the best suited candidate, so anyone else this just applies to even more.

We got Van Gaal under circumstances where people just decided he was guaranteed to work out, which led to him being able to do extremely daft and in some cases damaging things for over a year before a lot of people would accept he was even doing anything wrong. We got Jose and the exact opposite happened and people were looking to snipe at him over every tiny detail, or would just make stuff up to criticise him. This doesn't actually help.

My preference would be for Ole to do well and get the job, as it would at least be trying something different. No one thinks he's an unquestionable genius and no one has an agenda against him either, so it's a healthy situation. He would have to do well enough to earn the chance though. I think there are genuine criticisms of the Glazers but I do also think we invest enough in the team to expect some degree of success. The issue is how we seem to go about our business.
 

Devil may care

New Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
35,976
Agreed.. Thing is, remember when Fergie was restricted with finances, theres was a short period of green and gold movement and that was basically that.
Fergie was still winning leagues during that time though so it made it harder for that movement to get a grip, even though it was about more than just the trophies at heart. Ole cannot get this team competing with Liverpool and City without major investment and if we don't see that in the summer, I would hope fans would step up as Ole wont be a divisive figure that the board can hide behind to a degree.
 

Patrick08

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
5,447
This is a huge decision for the club, don't you think it deserves a bit more scrutiny?

Its not like they've got the last three appointments right is it.
There is a difference between more scrutiny and being constantly negative. I am sure we will get the next one right after Jose, and I don't think it will be Ole and I don't think he is the best candidate even if he achieves seasons objectives.
 

Tarrou

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
25,535
Location
Sydney
There are enough data points to show that Glazers are willing to spend money. If fact, we have been spending like drunken sailors - as someone pointed out earlier. In fact, the money has actually limited our long term thinking and strategy as we have chased the short-term fix every window.

In this context, to raise the concern that Glazers might give OGS the job because he will be less demanding of them, in terms of financial resources, is unfounded. To be taken seriously, you need to show some indication or sign that this is a real possibility.
Well if you don't consider them taking $1bn out of us as evidence of their true motivations, take a look at Tampa Bay and what their fans say about them. I mean, there's enough there to raise this as a valid question, in the context of them being able to save $300m on a single decision.

Just pointing to our spending in last 5 years is just taking one reference point in an extremely complex equation. That is the sort of money it costs to run a massive club, to keep it at the top or get it back to the top. Despite that, we have failed.
 
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
13,122
Maybe, but the idea of any businessman wanting to save potentially hundreds of millions of they can get a good job out of something much cheaper isn't exactly unheard of.

Especially from owners who have in the past shown that top 4, and the money that comes with that, is important to them.

On the other hand, another dud could cost them more than a few hundred million.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with Utd employing OGS if he proves himself in the next 5 months. Poch is relatively unproven in any case, as you point out - appointing him could cost an absolute fortune.

The days of managers having lots of player contacts are long gone (as this level), and that’s why someone like OGS could potentially thrive under a DOF.

Not having a dig at Poch, but what’s he won as a manager? What did he win as a player - he wasn’t a great player by all accounts. What influence has he had on transfers at spurs (very little as far as I can see). He’s done well, but there are no guarantees he would work - so if by the end of the season we have a manager who is doing well, why not keep him? Any new manager has (not scientifically prove ) a 50/50 at best chance of success, so keep OGS is he is successful.