Solskjaer's contract

big rons sovereign

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Messages
2,264
Nope. You're wrong. It's not one minute that the next something else unfortunately for you. You don't know what you're talking about. Its never been the players are crap either. It's always been this manager is crap for me, I don't think he is good enough. That's my opinion, if that pisses you off I couldn't care less. Also, I've never once said "how will we win with this lot", I've never once said "the players are crap" either. Ι've always maintained we have one of the best squads. So it looks like you're talking nonsense, so yes I agree go back to sleep.
Awesome, respond to criticism by spouting the same shit. And claiming the critic knows nothing.

Come on then, let's hear your great plans. Maybe we could put them forward to the owners.
It has to be more detailed the managers crap let's hire xyz though.
 

Bastian

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
12,393
If he doesn't get meaningful quality in the window his name could be Steven Gerrard and I wouldn't have any different expectation of him. When you see the quality City have brought in year-on-year comparative to United, and then stack the squads up side-by-side, the expectations should be relative. Nobody other than SAF is taking this current United squad up against City on a 90+ point title challenge this year.

If he is backed I will certainly hold him to a higher standard, but sorry, I'm not going to be up in arms about where we are in the league with the squad we have.
Yeah, I'm not expecting us to be that close to City, even if we have an encouraging window. I just mean improvement between seasons, not in comparison to others. We need to consistently start to produce healthy points tallies, becoming super solid at home, and starting to finish teams off earlier in matches. Those are the next steps. Once we're there, we can start thinking about becoming relevant again.
 

He'sRaldo

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,517
When you see the quality City have brought in year-on-year comparative to United, and then stack the squads up side-by-side, the expectations should be relative. Nobody other than SAF is taking this current United squad up against City on a 90+ point title challenge this year.
City's team isn't that great and Pep has lost quite a few of his best players over the years.

The likes of Sane, Silva, Otamedi, Kompany, Delph, Danilo have left the club recently, all players who played an important part in his title wins. And even this season when they went on that run, they were playing with both Aguero and KDB injured.

Maybe City of the past was formidable with Sane, Silva, peak KDB, Aguero, Kompany etc. But current City's players are not at that level. The run they went on was all Pep, so for this season the insurmountable City argument doesn't have a lot of strength.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
2,803
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
Sure, and he has United above you in the table this year after spending a pittance compared to Chelsea this summer. He also finished above Chelsea last year, so unless the target at the start of last season was getting on par with City and Liverpool last season, or this season challenging for the title he seems to have United on an upward trajectory and in line with any reasonable expectation of the squad he's been given.
And you finished level on points with us last year despite the fact we were transfer banned and you spent ~200m plus.

I just find this sort of tolerance of stagnation totally bizarre. Genuinely do not for the life of me understand why Ole should be given a bumper pay rise and an extension at this point in the season. I think he's done a tremendous job to get you out of the post-Jose hangover, I just also think that the skillset to do that is distinct from that required to take a team to the top level.
 

AR87

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
3,098
Location
Wan-Bissaka SZN for the next 10 years
And you finished level on points with us last year despite the fact we were transfer banned and you spent ~200m plus.

I just find this sort of tolerance of stagnation totally bizarre. Genuinely do not for the life of me understand why Ole should be given a bumper pay rise and an extension at this point in the season. I think he's done a tremendous job to get you out of the post-Jose hangover, I just also think that the skillset to do that is distinct from that required to take a team to the top level.
It's not stagnation if we've progressed this season is it?

Sacking him after improvement after failing to back him would be completely ridiculous.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
2,803
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
It's not stagnation if we've progressed this season is it?

Sacking him after improvement after failing to back him would be completely ridiculous.
Have you progressed? Or have you just got Bruno for a full year?

I mean this entirely in good faith and am not trying to have a go, but I'm genuinely curious the metrics you're considering when you say you've progressed.
 

AR87

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
3,098
Location
Wan-Bissaka SZN for the next 10 years
Have you progressed? Or have you just got Bruno for a full year?

I mean this entirely in good faith and am not trying to have a go, but I'm genuinely curious the metrics you're considering when you say you've progressed.
Genuinely have no idea how to answer this. Managers need quality to progress teams. I think a player like Shaw developing under Ole speaks fairly well about his ability to do more than just throw money at problems also.

I can't answer this question, but I've seen enough that I think Ole deserves a chance to take United from good, top-4 qualifier to genuine title contender and should be given the resources to do so. It's not like he's sitting 7th in the table and needs another late season push to get there. He's got United sitting 2nd, best of the rest, which before the season would have been seen as genuine progress despite not getting the expecting backing in the transfer window.
 

UnofficialDevil

Anti Scottish
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
15,064
Location
I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
Awesome, respond to criticism by spouting the same shit. And claiming the critic knows nothing.

Come on then, let's hear your great plans. Maybe we could put them forward to the owners.
It has to be more detailed the managers crap let's hire xyz though.
Criticism? Is that what you call criticism? Maybe you should read your post again, you're full of irony.. And it seems like you're the one spouting shit (again), when did I claim the critic knows nothing? I said you are lying about me claiming things I've never said.

It's not for me to come up with detailed plans for the owners someone else gets paid millions to do that, so it doesn't have to be anything more than lets try and hire a better manager from me. And what makes you the football expert anyway.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
2,803
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
Genuinely have no idea how to answer this. Managers need quality to progress teams. I think a player like Shaw developing under Ole speaks fairly well about his ability to do more than just throw money at problems also.

I can't answer this question, but I've seen enough that I think Ole deserves a chance to take United from good, top-4 qualifier to genuine title contender and should be given the resources to do so. It's not like he's sitting 7th in the table and needs another late season push to get there. He's got United sitting 2nd, best of the rest, which before the season would have been seen as genuine progress despite not getting the expecting backing in the transfer window.
Sure and that's fair enough. It's certainly a very large question and probably an unfair one all things considered. That said, surely players like Shaw coming on are offset by the likes of Martial regressing?

Thanks for the chat and I hope you appreciate I'm not trying to WUM or anything. Ultimately though from my perspective as an oppo I hope Ole stays - probably much like many of your fans hoped Lampard would stay. Again, I think Ole has done a tremendous job given the circumstances and results to this point, but there is little to suggest to me at least that he has what it takes to elevate the team to the requisite level. I really do think he's a fantastic man manager, but at the very highest echelons of the sport fine details become far more important and he just doesn't strike me as the sort to be as minutely focused as other top coaches (on a semi-related note, this is part of why I think Mourinho has regressed of late).
 

FatTails

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
42
His contract runs out at the end of the 2021/2022 season, doesn’t it? Seems early to be taking a decision like that right now. With all due respect to our Ole, I’d say the chance of a bigger club coming and luring him over are pretty slim.

Let’s see what things look like at the end of this season, and then again in Dec 2021 after another transfer window and hopefully after half a “normal” season has passed.
 

SAFMUTD

Full Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2018
Messages
4,864
Ultimately though from my perspective as an oppo I hope Ole stays
Sad thing is I haven’t spoke with a single opposition fan who doesn’t share your opinion.

All of you hoping he stays for a long time here pretty much summarizes how Ole and his potential as a manager is seen from our rivals.
 

Majima

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Messages
3,678
Location
Kami's Lookout
I just find this sort of tolerance of stagnation totally bizarre. Genuinely do not for the life of me understand why Ole should be given a bumper pay rise and an extension at this point in the season. I think he's done a tremendous job to get you out of the post-Jose hangover, I just also think that the skillset to do that is distinct from that required to take a team to the top level.
He's totally exceeded any expectations in recovering us post Jose, he's done an outstanding job in this respect. He's a talented man manager. The team spirit feels the highest since SAF. He's shaped the squad well, offloading players who didn't want to be here, with a young squad full of future potential.

On the pitch though it's different, the fact he's very much hands off & not a trainer shows. We're very inconsistent, when we're on form we're exciting, but we're mostly a dull watch. We lack a plan B, changes are late (he has improved) and we have developed a mental block when it matters most. The multiple semi's defeats last season, CL groups this, are huge alarm bells.

We're consistently poor facing a deep defense. We struggle to build up and keep possession properly, moving the ball around far too slowly, whilst relying on Bruno's genius far too much.

We performed very well last season vs. Top 6, but since they clearly adjusted this season, so far we're totally out of answers. We cannot impose ourselves on them whatsoever. Another huge concern.

His squad management has also been poor imo this season. Choosing to run key players into the ground, using the bench minimally. We dominate the top minutes played by PL players list; with Bruno, Maguire, AWB all in top 5. With our build-up/creation issues, why he hasn't used Van de Beek has been mystifying.

If looking at it from a footballing perspective, you're totally right it doesn't make any sense for him to be given an extension yet... But we are currently 2nd, and all our owners actually care about is securing top 4 (& top 4 is looking secure), so everything else is inconsequential really.

We're in this strange state, of achieving just enough to survive, without winning anything, but not poor enough to get sacked.

That sums us up I think.
 
Last edited:

Marcus

Full Member
Joined
Oct 3, 1999
Messages
4,221
If man-management is his strength, then changing the assistant managers or adding to them might be the way to go.
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
17,527
If man-management is his strength, then changing the assistant managers or adding to them might be the way to go.
Man management is not enough to be a good manager for Manchester United otherwise we should have just got Harry Redknapp after Fergie.
 

Mickson

Full Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
2,116
Location
Vidal's knee
Man management is not enough to be a good manager for Manchester United otherwise we should have just got Harry Redknapp after Fergie.
Or Steve Bruce! Sebastian Larsson was a guest in the Swedish PL studio. He said that Bruce was excellent in man-management. Really cared for the players, was likable, and made everyone feel at home. He also said that Bruce didn't touch the tactics (however, other coaches did of course). Ole is indeed a good man-manager, I'm curious why he hasn't brought in a new coach from "the outside" though. Surely he must see that there has to be more improvement.
 

Mainoldo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
17,527
Or Steve Bruce! Sebastian Larsson was a guest in the Swedish PL studio. He said that Bruce was excellent in man-management. Really cared for the players, was likable, and made everyone feel at home. He also said that Bruce didn't touch the tactics (however, other coaches did of course). Ole is indeed a good man-manager, I'm curious why he hasn't brought in a new coach from "the outside" though. Surely he must see that there has to be more improvement.
Not surprised... Villa connections said Bruce took a session with them and basically done pig in the middle (Rondos) then made them have a kick-about in his sessions.

But yet a lot of people in here think these managers are tactically geniuses.
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
6,849
If he doesn't get meaningful quality in the window his name could be Steven Gerrard and I wouldn't have any different expectation of him. When you see the quality City have brought in year-on-year comparative to United, and then stack the squads up side-by-side, the expectations should be relative. Nobody other than SAF is taking this current United squad up against City on a 90+ point title challenge this year.

If he is backed I will certainly hold him to a higher standard, but sorry, I'm not going to be up in arms about where we are in the league with the squad we have.
Talk about rewriting history... United's issue has been we just buy the best players around and never give a thought to how they fit in a system. Like buying Maguire playing a high line and immediately then needing another CB to complement him or buying Pogba and trying him across so many positions because we have no idea how to use him. These are world record transfers. We've consistently had a deep and massively talented squad - our fans just constantly revise their opinions on players once they join us because they typically regress. We've literally signed some of the most exciting young and established stars since SAF took over, just think back through our signings.

Edit: and Gerrard has done a decent job at Rangers
 
Last edited:

Xaviesta

Full Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2014
Messages
10,247
Location
Camp Nou
Supports
Barcelona
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Barca reached CL semis in Rijkaard's last season. They had a future GOAT coming up, in that side to add to that. RM was nowhere close to what City and Pool are today.

RM had literally finished the previous season on 92 points, 2 behind the Barca and also reached previous season's CL semis, losing out narrowly to Juve. At the time Benitez was sacked, RM were 3rd, 4 behind the leaders Atletico.

But yeah, very comparable situations:houllier:
And in La Liga that season Barcelona finished 3rd in what many deride as a two team league a whopping 18 points off a Real Madrid that won't go down as on eof their great teams. Rijkaard's last season was also a 2nd consectuve trophyless season. Two tropyhless seasons has you in danger of the sack at clubs of United's stature.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
6,439
Or Steve Bruce! Sebastian Larsson was a guest in the Swedish PL studio. He said that Bruce was excellent in man-management. Really cared for the players, was likable, and made everyone feel at home. He also said that Bruce didn't touch the tactics (however, other coaches did of course). Ole is indeed a good man-manager, I'm curious why he hasn't brought in a new coach from "the outside" though. Surely he must see that there has to be more improvement.
The way Ole talks he thinks hes the new Fergie. I think next season will define him. He either challenges for the league and reach at least the last 8 of the Champions league, or he might as well concede hes not good enough.
He wont change his coaches next season as he probably believes he can manage everything and make it better.
Personally I think we will be a top 4 team, but way off City and maybe Chelsea and/or Liverpool.
We shall see.
 

arthurka

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
13,687
Location
Rectum
Presumably because the senior management at the club are happy with the work he has done and wish to show that. That would be the simplest explanation.
But he hasn't done anything extraordinary to valid that increase has he? Getting three more years should be more than enough.
 

Robbie Boy

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
21,665
Location
Dublin
Next season is absolutely huge for him. His third season was always seen as the holy grail by his biggest supporters.
 

Bilbo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
11,532
Personally I think we will be a top 4 team, but way off City and maybe Chelsea and/or Liverpool.
You may well be right, but bear in mind that many were saying the same thing before this season
 

Bilbo

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
11,532
But he hasn't done anything extraordinary to valid that increase has he? Getting three more years should be more than enough.
He is, I believe, 7th in the salary table for PL managers at the moment. A salary increase will bring him slightly more in line with his peers, as he should be considering how many of those peers he is out-performing
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
11,521
The way Ole talks he thinks hes the new Fergie.
Seriously ? You believe that ? He spent 15 years working under the best manager the world has ever seen - he has probably learned a bit from him, he wants to bring that knowledge to the club - but do you seriously think he considers himself the new Ferguson ?
 

Wewinsoon

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
45
Yeah this is a big misconception here in particular.
Also another misinformation is the luck etcetera Zinedine had in championsleague. If you take that lut
The way Ole talks he thinks hes the new Fergie. I think next season will define him. He either challenges for the league and reach at least the last 8 of the Champions league, or he might as well concede hes not good enough.
He wont change his coaches next season as he probably believes he can manage everything and make it better.
Personally I think we will be a top 4 team, but way off City and maybe Chelsea and/or Liverpool.
We shall see.
If we don't buy good players or team is still some kind of misfit, there is still more to be improved.
 

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
11,521
Have you progressed? Or have you just got Bruno for a full year?

I mean this entirely in good faith and am not trying to have a go, but I'm genuinely curious the metrics you're considering when you say you've progressed.
Does it really matter how we have progressed as long as we have progressed ?
 

arthurka

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
13,687
Location
Rectum
He is, I believe, 7th in the salary table for PL managers at the moment. A salary increase will bring him slightly more in line with his peers, as he should be considering how many of those peers he is out-performing
His peers you mean title winning managers? They have earned that because they have won shit. Ole has a nice smile.
 

Ali Dia

Full Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
5,483
Location
Souness's Super Sub/George Weahs Talented Cousin
Yeah, I'm not expecting us to be that close to City, even if we have an encouraging window. I just mean improvement between seasons, not in comparison to others. We need to consistently start to produce healthy points tallies, becoming super solid at home, and starting to finish teams off earlier in matches. Those are the next steps. Once we're there, we can start thinking about becoming relevant again.
Our Home form should pick up and the away form will probably return to normal once fans are back. If we can keep up even close to this level of away form and correct our home form we are looking decent and that’s without any signings
 

Mickson

Full Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
2,116
Location
Vidal's knee
Seriously ? You believe that ? He spent 15 years working under the best manager the world has ever seen - he has probably learned a bit from him, he wants to bring that knowledge to the club - but do you seriously think he considers himself the new Ferguson ?
I don't think he thinks he is Ferguson, but many things he says echoes of Ferguson so I understand his point. It can be a bit cringe-worthy sometimes because he just says cliche´s Fergie used to say like "we always do things the hard way at United" like that is some kind of excuse or even a good thing. I think it's important to develop your own style and your own thoughts. It's obviously good to be influenced - and Fergie is an excellent role model - but my feeling with Ole is that he is trying really hard to be like Fergie and I'm not so sure that's always a good thing. I think that can sink him in playing style. Yes, Fergie's teams weren't a Pep Guardiola team but they had a clear style and had some distinctive patterns in how they played (I particularly liked how the midfielders like Carrick and Scholes ALWAYS won second balls so we could keep our momentum going) but when Ole doesn't have all that, and when he hasn't Fergies biggest strength: Always getting 100% out of every player, it can be a bit flat sometimes. That's why I think, if he wants to succeed, he needs to bring in coaches with different experiences and different knowledge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lysglimt

lysglimt

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
11,521
I don't think he thinks he is Ferguson, but many things he says echoes of Ferguson so I understand his point. It can be a bit cringe-worthy sometimes because he just says cliche´s Fergie used to say like "we always do things the hard way at United" like that is some kind of excuse or even a good thing. I think it's important to develop your own style and your own thoughts. It's obviously good to be influenced - and Fergie is an excellent role model - but my feeling with Ole is that he is trying really hard to be like Fergie and I'm not so sure that's always a good thing. I think that can sink him in playing style. Yes, Fergie's teams weren't a Pep Guardiola team but they had a clear style and had some distinctive patterns in how they played (I particularly liked how the midfielders like Carrick and Scholes ALWAYS won second balls so we could keep our momentum going) but when Ole doesn't have all that, and when he hasn't Fergies biggest strength: Always getting 100% out of every player, it can be a bit flat sometimes. That's why I think, if he wants to succeed, he needs to bring in coaches with different experiences and different knowledge.
This is a fair way of looking at it - and if it had been put forward like that - bravo. But to say "he thinks he is Ferguson" makes him sound like an idiot. This was an intelligent, articulate way of looking at it. We should have more like that
 

united_99

Takes pleasure in other people's pain
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
6,554
Sure and that's fair enough. It's certainly a very large question and probably an unfair one all things considered. That said, surely players like Shaw coming on are offset by the likes of Martial regressing?

Thanks for the chat and I hope you appreciate I'm not trying to WUM or anything. Ultimately though from my perspective as an oppo I hope Ole stays - probably much like many of your fans hoped Lampard would stay. Again, I think Ole has done a tremendous job given the circumstances and results to this point, but there is little to suggest to me at least that he has what it takes to elevate the team to the requisite level. I really do think he's a fantastic man manager, but at the very highest echelons of the sport fine details become far more important and he just doesn't strike me as the sort to be as minutely focused as other top coaches (on a semi-related note, this is part of why I think Mourinho has regressed of late).
Stop comparing Ole with Lampard. Lampard wasn’t going to achieve top 4 the way things on and off the pitch were developing, that’s why he had to go.
If things start looking like that at United, Ole will leave as well.
And I know how insecure some (online) fans feel and need confirmation from oppo fans. But not everyone is like that. I personally couldn’t care less how oppo fans think about Ole. I only care about the impact he is having at United (both on and off the pitch).
I am sure you will also not care about what I think about Tuchel. I feel he has done OK so far with the players he has, nothing special. In fact I feel he should be doing better than scoring 11 league goals in 10 games (4 of those 11 have been penalties + 1 own goal). But Chelsea fans seem to be very happy with him which is fair enough.
 

Forevergiggs1

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Messages
1,874
Location
Barcelona
Supports
United
Next season is absolutely huge for him. His third season was always seen as the holy grail by his biggest supporters.
Until we don't sign Haaland, Sancho then it won't be Oles fault if we fail to reach top 4 because his genius is being held back by the board and because no manager on earth could get us winning titles so we may as well stick with him for the next 20 years. There's always going to be something for some.
 

Shark

@NotShark
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
22,694
Location
Ireland
Until we don't sign Haaland, Sancho then it won't be Oles fault if we fail to reach top 4 because his genius is being held back by the board and because no manager on earth could get us winning titles so we may as well stick with him for the next 20 years. There's always going to be something for some.
Better believe it. Ole will be here for the next ten years as long as he gets minimum 4th. Might as well accept that now.
 

AR87

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
3,098
Location
Wan-Bissaka SZN for the next 10 years
Sure and that's fair enough. It's certainly a very large question and probably an unfair one all things considered. That said, surely players like Shaw coming on are offset by the likes of Martial regressing?
Right, but individual players ups and downs are to be expected. The overall team performance has been improved though, which seems like a sign of progression. If he gets to invest in the team this summer and we stagnate, I'll be right there asking him to be sacked, I just think people put these ceilings on what he's achieved down to "patterns of play" and "coaching" when I struggle to believe that we should reasonably expect a whole lot more from what we have in the squad. If Pogba was healthy the whole season, I do think we'd be closer to City and putting in a "genuine" title challenge. That we take such a hit in creativity without Pogba says more about the squad options at his disposal (Fred, McT, Matic) than it does about him, although I know people disagree with that.

Thanks for the chat and I hope you appreciate I'm not trying to WUM or anything.
Nah, I know you were having a genuine conversation, we just disagree. Not a big deal.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
6,439
Seriously ? You believe that ? He spent 15 years working under the best manager the world has ever seen - he has probably learned a bit from him, he wants to bring that knowledge to the club - but do you seriously think he considers himself the new Ferguson ?
I think some of the things he says I can see elements of Fergie. The thing is as you said, hes not Fergie and he should develop his own identity.
 

Sandikan

aka sex on the beach
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
36,840
Have you progressed? Or have you just got Bruno for a full year?

I mean this entirely in good faith and am not trying to have a go, but I'm genuinely curious the metrics you're considering when you say you've progressed.
Last year we had to put a superb late run in to get into the top 4, and just about scraped 3rd on goal difference.
This season we've been looking decent for top 4 minimum all season, and have been 2nd for a while.

Looks like progression to me. Especially as we didn't even strengthen last summer.
 

Abraxas

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
152
But he hasn't done anything extraordinary to valid that increase has he? Getting three more years should be more than enough.
Maybe it's not the case that he has to be extraordinary by your definition. There may be quite a few differences in how you are perceiving performance and progress and what the board are looking at. It may even be that he has demonstrably reached targets that were set that naturally lead to such a raise rather than a qualitative assessment taking place of the kind we would routinely engage in on a forum.

Which leads to the question, what should he have done to earn a raise in your view?

There may be other factors, such as whatever salary he started on and other clauses within his contract beyond salary that would serve as part of the explanation.Things that we simply do not have access to and are at best assumptions. So really the knowledge (or indeed speculation) he is set for a raise is a fairly limited piece of information in itself.
 

Caesar2290

Full Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
280
TBH we've progressed, but not the extent the table suggests. We have more points, but the only reason we're second is because all of the usual suspects bar City decided to implode. How many of you think we would have been second last year with this team or the year before that?

In reality as @TheMagicFoolBus pointed out, the only difference between this season and last season is that we had a full season of Bruno. I don't think it's a coincidence we've stopped being a midtable team the moment he arrived. I also don't think it's a coincidence all our front line looks garbage if he's having a day off.

We haven't been dependent on a player to pull us through this much since Ronaldo or RVP, but the difference is that those players were the difference between 1st and 2nd. Bruno is the difference between Top4 and midtable. We are one major injury to Bruno away from finishing outside Top4. And the fact that this over relliance hasn't been addressed this season, is worrisome.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
2,803
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
Last year we had to put a superb late run in to get into the top 4, and just about scraped 3rd on goal difference.
This season we've been looking decent for top 4 minimum all season, and have been 2nd for a while.

Looks like progression to me. Especially as we didn't even strengthen last summer.
I think holistically that's fair but at least from my perspective that's solely down to adding one of the 2-3 best players in the league in Bruno. I could be wrong as I haven't gone into the numbers but for me it doesn't feel like you've kicked on from the second half of the season once he was in the team. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm misguided but your points per game this year is lower compared to last season post-January, is it not?

Stop comparing Ole with Lampard. Lampard wasn’t going to achieve top 4 the way things on and off the pitch were developing, that’s why he had to go.
If things start looking like that at United, Ole will leave as well.
And I know how insecure some (online) fans feel and need confirmation from oppo fans. But not everyone is like that. I personally couldn’t care less how oppo fans think about Ole. I only care about the impact he is having at United (both on and off the pitch).
I am sure you will also not care about what I think about Tuchel. I feel he has done OK so far with the players he has, nothing special. In fact I feel he should be doing better than scoring 11 league goals in 10 games (4 of those 11 have been penalties + 1 own goal). But Chelsea fans seem to be very happy with him which is fair enough.
Sorry wasn't trying to compare their results or anything, just the emotions evoked in oppo fanbases. I certainly wouldn't presume to tell you how you should feel about your football club; just thought my perspective might be illuminating to some degree given we also sacked a club legend whose qualifications were questionable on paper.

If looking at it from a footballing perspective, you're totally right it doesn't make any sense for him to be given an extension yet... But we are currently 2nd, and all our owners actually care about is securing top 4 (& top 4 is looking secure), so everything else is inconsequential really.

We're in this strange state, of achieving just enough to survive, without winning anything, but not poor enough to get sacked.

That sums us up I think.
Really enjoyed your post and thank you for your perspective! I do view United as being at a bit of a crossroads - I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way or as being insulting, but for me it's akin to late-stage Wenger at Arsenal. It almost feels like there is a conflict between the philosophical ethos of the club and the practical reality of the day to day - ideally you want the club legend to improve and take the club to the heights of past glories, but to what extent is that a fool's errand and are you throwing good money after bad?
 

arthurka

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
13,687
Location
Rectum
Maybe it's not the case that he has to be extraordinary by your definition. There may be quite a few differences in how you are perceiving performance and progress and what the board are looking at. It may even be that he has demonstrably reached targets that were set that naturally lead to such a raise rather than a qualitative assessment taking place of the kind we would routinely engage in on a forum.

Which leads to the question, what should he have done to earn a raise in your view?

There may be other factors, such as whatever salary he started on and other clauses within his contract beyond salary that would serve as part of the explanation.Things that we simply do not have access to and are at best assumptions. So really the knowledge (or indeed speculation) he is set for a raise is a fairly limited piece of information in itself.
Won a cup?