Solskjaer's legacy and his future

Foxbatt

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The second worse manager after Moyes after SAF retired. Yes LVG was boring as hell but you know what he was doing. And he won the cup and lost the CL spot on goal difference only if my memory serves me right.
 

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The second worse manager after Moyes after SAF retired. Yes LVG was boring as hell but you know what he was doing. And he won the cup and lost the CL spot on goal difference only if my memory serves me right.
By results? He didn’t win a cup but he got us in the top 4 in both his full seasons as manager and that’s not been an easy task for everyone else.
 

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In hindsight, how did he fail to sing Haaland? And I never hear Haaland speak of him which is also weird.

"Gary Neville said: "Ole was your manager. How are you not at Manchester United?" He simply told Sky Sports: "You have to ask him."
Source
I don't think that it was Ole's fault personally, the reports at that time indicated that at United Haaland felt only Ole wanted him there, but no the club. And considering that his position wasn't the strongest, Haaland instead opted for Dortmund, where the club board went for him, not just the manager.

Haaland's comment seems weird, but it might just be a "he knows why, I don't want to talk about this in public"
 

Eriku

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I don't think that it was Ole's fault personally, the reports at that time indicated that at United Haaland felt only Ole wanted him there, but no the club. And considering that his position wasn't the strongest, Haaland instead opted for Dortmund, where the club board went for him, not just the manager.

Haaland's comment seems weird, but it might just be a "he knows why, I don't want to talk about this in public"
Yeah, I think his dad said as much and that you don’t know how the fortunes of a manager are going to go in a year, so they wanted to go to a place where they had a plan for him beyond just one manager’s wishes.
 

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Ole is a norwegian. That's as far as his link with Halaand goes.

The boy clearly doesnt fancy playing for an ex Molde manager in a dysfunctional team
Haaland played for Molde at the time Ole managed them. The link is a bit bigger
 

stevoc

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Ole is a norwegian. That's as far as his link with Halaand goes.

The boy clearly doesnt fancy playing for an ex Molde manager in a dysfunctional team
He didn't fancy playing for a team that wouldn't agree to a buy-out clause in his contract. That's why he didn't sign for United as confirmed by the Dortmund Ceo.

He probably meant the only manager post SAF to qualify for the CL via back to back top 4 finishes.
 

Scandi Red

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The second worse manager after Moyes after SAF retired.
Van Gaal was hilarious and he did win an FA Cup, but I don't think he was better than Solskjær beyond that. But we're just comparing turds now. And I very much include Mourinho in that pile of turds, even though he was correct in a lot of his criticism.
 

Rozay

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Haven’t fact checked but that 124 goals does seem very high at first glance.
 

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He probably meant the only manager post SAF to qualify for the CL via back to back top 4 finishes.
Nah, he's off crying in another thread, and he said he 'forgot' about the EL win.

Nevertheless, he was wrong, and could have just acknowledged it, instead of getting upset about it.
 

Scandi Red

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Haven’t fact checked but that 124 goals does seem very high at first glance.
You can probably make a positive spin on Van Gaal and Mourinho's tenures too. There are some underwhelming bullet points on that list too. "Played two cup finals in two years" :lol:

But what I don't get is that this person made a Solskjær propaganda piece and didn't even mention the comebacks? I think the comebacks are the only thing I'll remember when I'm old. It all felt scripted at one stage.
 

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Haven’t fact checked but that 124 goals does seem very high at first glance.
As far as I can tell, that specific statistic is for league goals in the first 75-ish matches under him, where Solskjær trailed only Guardiola and Klopp! :)

If you consider full seasons, we scored 112 goals in 61 matches in 2019–20 (reached the Europa League, FA Cup and League Cup semi-finals) and 121 goals in 61 matches in 2020–21 (reached the Europa League final and the League Cup semi-final). Neither of these were seasonal records, I'm afraid.
 

Karlos PFC

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The second worse manager after Moyes after SAF retired. Yes LVG was boring as hell but you know what he was doing. And he won the cup and lost the CL spot on goal difference only if my memory serves me right.
Spot on, there was the odd game here and there but overall his football was terrible. I still wonder with those fans claiming that we played the best football post-SAF. Sit low and hit on the counter, We could sack Ole and bring Big Sam and we wouldn't be able to tell the difference (though Big Sam is a master tactician compared to Ole). Most of the time the first 45 minutes I wanted to stick a fork in my eyes. It's a bit ironic for fans booing Mourinho for his football but then getting Ole for 3 freaking years with his Ole-ball and claiming him the best manager and best football post SAF.
 

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Haven’t fact checked but that 124 goals does seem very high at first glance.
He's not the only manager to beat Guardiola thrice in a single season, either.

As far as i remember, Klopp did the same in 2017-18. They beat City 4-3 at Anfield in the PL, and they also dismantled them in the CL quarter-finals (3-0, 2-1).

If someone wanted to be a bit mean about it, he/she could add that the third win was a meaningless second leg for the League Cup after City had won the first match at OT 3-0 quite comfortably.
 

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He's not the only manager to beat Guardiola thrice in a single season, either.

As far as i remember, Klopp did the same in 2017-18. They beat City 4-3 at Anfield in the PL, and they also dismantled them in the CL quarter-finals (3-0, 2-1).

If someone wanted to be a bit mean about it, he/she could add that the third win was a meaningless second leg for the League Cup after City had won the first match at OT 3-0 quite comfortably.
This is the internet, so they probably do.

I can’t see why it is so hard for people to give him any credit. Finishing 3rd and 2nd are respectable finishes. It’s always something about ‘empty stadiums’ or whatever, he did well for a fair period, it is what it is.
 

b82REZ

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Spot on, there was the odd game here and there but overall his football was terrible. I still wonder with those fans claiming that we played the best football post-SAF. Sit low and hit on the counter, We could sack Ole and bring Big Sam and we wouldn't be able to tell the difference (though Big Sam is a master tactician compared to Ole). Most of the time the first 45 minutes I wanted to stick a fork in my eyes. It's a bit ironic for fans booing Mourinho for his football but then getting Ole for 3 freaking years with his Ole-ball and claiming him the best manager and best football post SAF.
I often wonder this.

It is a very subjective thing and I'm certain some did thoroughly enjoy it; however it was very similar to his predecessor, yet was often lauded like he was going toe to toe with the greats.

I will caveat that however, we were sensational for a short period in project restart. That was the only time I enjoyed the football under him and genuinely thought he'd cracked it.

He did his best, but posts like that tweet trying to invent records or painting very mediocre achievements as something great just smack of insecurity and desperation to prove they were right to back him so fervently.

He was most definitely our most likeable manager post Fergie, but tactically and results wise he wasn't. I think for some their dislike for Jose means they refuse to accept he did do better than Solksjaer. I wanted Mourinho gone as much as the next person, but over his tenure he played a similar style and produced more silverware and points totals.
 

youmeletsfly

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You can probably make a positive spin on Van Gaal and Mourinho's tenures too. There are some underwhelming bullet points on that list too. "Played two cup finals in two years" :lol:

But what I don't get is that this person made a Solskjær propaganda piece and didn't even mention the comebacks? I think the comebacks are the only thing I'll remember when I'm old. It all felt scripted at one stage.
This.

Basically you can spin it around "lost two cup finals in two years" and end the argument.
 

Dve

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Ole is a norwegian. That's as far as his link with Halaand goes.

The boy clearly doesnt fancy playing for an ex Molde manager in a dysfunctional team
Instead, he fancied a release clause. It's not that complicated, really.
 

Gordon Godot

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This is the internet, so they probably do.

I can’t see why it is so hard for people to give him any credit. Finishing 3rd and 2nd are respectable finishes. It’s always something about ‘empty stadiums’ or whatever, he did well for a fair period, it is what it is.
But he was never going to challenge city. He was a nice guy who took over a very strong squad with some excellent players that gave some good performance for a while. But he was tactically naive, his game management terrible and most of his signings poor. apart from that...
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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This is the internet, so they probably do.

I can’t see why it is so hard for people to give him any credit. Finishing 3rd and 2nd are respectable finishes. It’s always something about ‘empty stadiums’ or whatever, he did well for a fair period, it is what it is.
The discussion about his tenure has become meaningless, if you ask me. Here on the Caf, we had two sides so entrenched into their initial positions, which led to whatever objectivity there was to be thrown out of the window very early on. Personally, my view is far away from both sides of the spectrum.

On one hand, i can't really give him credit for anything from a footballing perspective. Since we're discussing legacies, if the tenures of LvG and Mourinho were considered to be failures by most United fans, i can't see how Solskjaer's tenure could be viewed under a different lens. All three of them were offered ample time and were given huge war chests to shape their sides and they all failed to leave a mark. Finishing 3rd and 2nd, only for the wheels to come off afterward, isn't something to write home about when you're given three and a half years and close to half a billion Euros to spend. Holding the record for the most away games without a defeat is nice, and the empty stadiums shouldn't matter that much (since the conditions were the same for everybody). But it remains a record achieved without the pressure that comes with challenging for titles, and -again- it didn't prove a sign of better things. In fact, there's a good chance that ETH will have changed 8-9/11 of Solskjaer's starting line-up by this time next year. In my eyes, the 5 years of Mourinho and Solskjaer would have brought a club without United's wealth to its knees (but that's mostly on the club for not being decisive).

On the other hand, Solskjaer did try his best. No one can take this away from him. And in the end, his time here was, give or take, on par with the tenures of managers with much heavier CVs than his. In this context, calling him clueless or a P.E. teacher is plain wrong. Not being good enough doesn't mean you don't have a plan or that you don't revise it when needed. What his detractors often get wrong is that Solskjaer actually used to go back to the drawing board very often. He knew when his tactics weren't working and, most times, he was willing to sit down, think and come up with a plan that would unstick the carriage off the mud. Moreover, he was more than willing to tinker his general plan to suit the wants and the needs of his players. A modus operandi that did him more harm than good, as it proved in the end (especially after the arrival of Ronaldo). He deserves some sympathy for that. It all fell apart because the overarching philosophy was never good enough to take the club forward, but this doesn't mean that he didn't try to make things work during his time here.
 

Dion

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But he was never going to challenge city. He was a nice guy who took over a very strong squad with some excellent players that gave some good performance for a while. But he was tactically naive, his game management terrible and most of his signings poor. apart from that...
There are both so obviously, hilariously untrue. You don't beat the top teams so frequently or have your teams orchestrate comebacks so often without being tactically astute or having good game management.

Ole lacked the ability to coach the team to play to a consistent and organised level, but he was excellent at on the fly adjustments and setting up to counter other teams.
 

b82REZ

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The discussion about his tenure has become meaningless, if you ask me. Here on the Caf, we had two sides so entrenched into their initial positions, which led to whatever objectivity there was to be thrown out of the window very early on. Personally, my view is far away from both sides of the spectrum.

On one hand, i can't really give him credit for anything from a footballing perspective. Since we're discussing legacies, if the tenures of LvG and Mourinho were considered to be failures by most United fans, i can't see how Solskjaer's tenure could be viewed under a different lens. All three of them were offered ample time and were given huge war chests to shape their sides and they all failed to leave a mark. Finishing 3rd and 2nd, only for the wheels to come off afterward, isn't something to write home about when you're given three and a half years and close to half a billion Euros to spend. Holding the record for the most away games without a defeat is nice, and the empty stadiums shouldn't matter that much (since the conditions were the same for everybody). But it remains a record achieved without the pressure that comes with challenging for titles, and -again- it didn't prove a sign of better things. In fact, there's a good chance that ETH will have changed 8-9/11 of Solskjaer's starting line-up by this time next year. In my eyes, the 5 years of Mourinho and Solskjaer would have brought a club without United's wealth to its knees (but that's mostly on the club for not being decisive).

On the other hand, Solskjaer did try his best. No one can take this away from him. And in the end, his time here was, give or take, on par with the tenures of managers with much heavier CVs than his. In this context, calling him clueless or a P.E. teacher is plain wrong. Not being good enough doesn't mean you don't have a plan or that you don't revise it when needed. What his detractors often get wrong is that Solskjaer actually used to go back to the drawing board very often. He knew when his tactics weren't working and, most times, he was willing to sit down, think and come up with a plan that would unstick the carriage off the mud. Moreover, he was more than willing to tinker his general plan to suit the wants and the needs of his players. A modus operandi that did him more harm than good, as it proved in the end (especially after the arrival of Ronaldo). He deserves some sympathy for that. It all fell apart because the overarching philosophy was never good enough to take the club forward, but this doesn't mean that he didn't try to make things work during his time here.
A lot of that final paragraph is simply untrue. He never showed any signs of changing his tactics, out of a few attempts in his final season which saw us get some absolute hidings. These very rare occasions he moved away from his blueprint of a low block with fast transitions on the counter we looked utterly clueless; once again reinforcing the idea he wasn't really drilling the squad in any particular modern style, rather throwing at the wall to what would stick. He had a tried a true method and he stuck to it. Regarding your point of him pandering to individuals, that is not a good look for a professional manager.

We can speculate all we want about Ronaldo's return and whether he did or didn't hinder our potential progress that season. But as we've seen this season, we needed a manager that was strong enough to stand up to that petulant behaviour, not enable it.

It was his lack of adaptability that ultimately lead to his demise. He could not move us on from what had worked when our bottom level was on the floor. As the expectations grew, he seemed to shrink.

I agree with the rest of your post though. Objectively speaking he wasn't as successful as two of the post Fergie managers but he certainly tried and was doing what, in his mind, was best the club and was the most likeable manager we'd had since SAF.

You're bang on about people overrating his achievements whilst downplaying the objectively better achievements of others.

There's not a single rational fan that blames him or holds any ill will towards him; but I feel returning to the conversation 12 months removed from his sacking, at a time there's no real football on, a reasonable thing to do.
 

redshaw

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Haven’t fact checked but that 124 goals does seem very high at first glance.

I get 121 goals for 20/21 season. 73 league goals, 15 CL goals including a 5-0 win at home to Leipzig. 19 goals in our drop down to Europa with scoring 6 at home to Roma (final pens not included). 6 FA Cup goals in including a 3-2 win over Liverpool. 8 league cup goals. Dropping to Europa adds many more games and goals over typical seasons of the past. 2006/7 was the last time had more than 120 goals.

His previous season was lower so they must mean 20/21.

Still it's a decent haul, we had Cavani Bruno Rashford Martial Greenwood scoring lots. Bruno got 28 goals.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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A lot of that final paragraph is simply untrue. He never showed any signs of changing his tactics, out of a few attempts in his final season which saw us get some absolute hidings. These very rare occasions he moved away from his blueprint of a low block with fast transitions on the counter we looked utterly clueless; once again reinforcing the idea he wasn't really drilling the squad in any particular modern style, rather throwing at the wall to what would stick. He had a tried a true method and he stuck to it. Regarding your point of him pandering to individuals, that is not a good look for a professional manager.

We can speculate all we want about Ronaldo's return and whether he did or didn't hinder our potential progress that season. But as we've seen this season, we needed a manager that was strong enough to stand up to that petulant behaviour, not enable it.

It was his lack of adaptability that ultimately lead to his demise. He could not move us on from what had worked when our bottom level was on the floor. As the expectations grew, he seemed to shrink.

I agree with the rest of your post though. Objectively speaking he wasn't as successful as two of the post Fergie managers but he certainly tried and was doing what, in his mind, was best the club and was the most likeable manager we'd had since SAF.

You're bang on about people overrating his achievements whilst downplaying the objectively better achievements of others.

There's not a single rational fan that blames him or holds any ill will towards him; but I feel returning to the conversation 12 months removed from his sacking, at a time there's no real football on, a reasonable thing to do.
I respect your opinion, but i disagree. I think that Solskjaer's ceiling as a manager being low (more so in an age when our rivals are coached by Pep and Klopp) is what has made a lot of people think of him solely as someone who just won the lottery and rode his luck for three and a half years. In my mind, these are two different things. I can't blame someone for not having what it takes to compete with the very best. And i also have some sympathy to spare for the people who try and fail than those who think they can do no wrong and blame everyone else but themselves for their shortcomings (LvG and Mourinho).

He started with a 433 with Matic-Herrera-Pogba (in a more advanced role) with a relatively high line and lots of running to close down the first attacker. United needed 8 secs to recover the ball during Solskjaer's early days, people often forget that. Then, the players started to drop like flies and he had to adjust. He didn't complain about it, but chose to not rock the boat instead (a grave mistake, one that cost the club millions). He came up with a 4231 with Martial as the false #9, James hugging the touchline to provide width and Rashford tucking inside on the other flank (with Shaw using the whole length on the left side) to be the main a goal threat. By then, we had also resorted to mid-block pressing traps. The main problem then was that we were struggling to open up tight defences. He went on to sign Bruno, and with Greenwood's emergence (and Matic's resurgence), we were basically deploying a 325 in the attacking third with both FBs high up the pitch and Bruno/Pogba in the midfield. When that stopped working too, he ended up with the 4231 with minimal to zero pressing traps. Add to this, the times he used a back three or a diamond shape on special occasions to get the result he desired.

I don't know about you, but this doesn't seem like a manager who didn't try to adapt or was clueless from a tactical perspective. Whether he was a pushover or not (with the players), we can't be 100& sure. And we will never be unless Solskjaer and/or the players from the era start talking about his time at United. I believe he was too much of a nice guy and he had too many friends in and around the club to do a proper culling or call them out for doing a bad job. After all, United are a family club. It doesn't reflect well on him and it's one of the reasons i joined the "out" camp very early. Anyone with a clear mind could see that we needed a proper reshaping of the squad after the mess Mourinho left behind. What ETH is doing now. Solskjaer wasn't up to the task. The worst thing about it is that spent a fortune to basically build on the squad Mourinho had created to suit tactics that had taken us back to the Stone Age from a tactical perspective. 150 million on Maguire and AWB, not addressing the midfield issues and perceiving midfielders as water carriers etc. This was his biggest mistake and what turned his tenure into an abject failure.
 

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But he was never going to challenge city. He was a nice guy who took over a very strong squad with some excellent players that gave some good performance for a while. But he was tactically naive, his game management terrible and most of his signings poor. apart from that...
So? Does that make him the laughing stock and the figure of ridicule that he seems to be amongst so many? I can almost guarantee that if Ten Hag manages to finish 3rd and 2nd he will be hailed as a brilliant manager by many of our fans. He didn’t challenge City because they won every fecking game for a year pretty much. But he managed to get his side to thoroughly outclass them on their own patch on more than one occasion.
 
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So? Does that make him the laughing stock and the figure of ridicule that he seems to be amongst so many? I can almost guarantee that if Ten Hag manages to finish 3rd and 2nd he will be hailed as a brilliant manager by many of our fans. He didn’t challenge City because they won every fecking game for a year pretty much. But he managed to get his side to thoroughly outclass them on their own patch on more than one occasion.
If Ten Hag finishes on 66 points, and 74 points, not only will he not make 2nd, he looks likely to end up missing out on top 4 altogether*

It’d be a quite frankly horrendously underwhelming 2.5 years in the job if a 66 point season is followed by a 74 season and no trophies, all the while looking by xG and other stats that we’re riding our luck and will soon drop off a cliff, after spending 300m is all we end up with from ETH.
 

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If Ten Hag finishes on 66 points, and 74 points, not only will he not make 2nd, he looks likely to end up missing out on top 4 altogether*

It’d be a quite frankly horrendously underwhelming 2.5 years in the job if a 66 point season is followed by a 74 season and no trophies, all the while looking by xG and other stats that we’re riding our luck and will soon drop off a cliff, after spending 300m is all we end up with from ETH.
Then it’s obviously not the scenario I proposed then.
 
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Then it’s obviously not the scenario I proposed then.
Aye, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes teams underperform and a team can post the lowest 2nd place points tally since that Leicester season, the lowest along with that Leicester season by some distance in the last decade and pretend it’s some great achievement.
But if that’s all you’ve got after 2.5 years, it’s gonna be crystal clear you’re going fecking nowhere and it’d be a terrible start for ETH.

Mourinho got second with over 80 points and wasn’t lauded by fans, in fans, a huge portion still thought he was shite.
What will convince fans it’s the performances on the pitch and if it appears like we’re building towards something and improving in our play. Not a finishing position.
 

lex talionis

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Ole's legacy as United manager is in ruins, but there's really no need to pile dung on the man. He was clearly a yes man to the suits upstairs and had to accept what he was given and accept what he was denied. Still, there's no question that he was not up to the job that was expected of him by the fans or club management.
 

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Why do we need 100 pages+?
The fact that no premiere league club wants him is pretty telling. Premier League runner up is something right? Apprently not.
His signings were also awful. If he got the ball to say no to Ronaldo, he might've survived for another season or two. Maybe this is for the greater good?
 

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So? Does that make him the laughing stock and the figure of ridicule that he seems to be amongst so many? I can almost guarantee that if Ten Hag manages to finish 3rd and 2nd he will be hailed as a brilliant manager by many of our fans. He didn’t challenge City because they won every fecking game for a year pretty much. But he managed to get his side to thoroughly outclass them on their own patch on more than one occasion.
It doesn't justify ridicule, but it puts his tenure in context. It wasn't terrible, but we were supposed to be building up towards a title challenge and we weren't doing that. His football and thinking just weren't on the level required. So overall, it was time and money wasted.
 

stevoc

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Haven’t fact checked but that 124 goals does seem very high at first glance.
I don't believe the 2 cup finals one is accurate, we were in the EL final in 2021 what else?
 
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Greck

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Haven’t fact checked but that 124 goals does seem very high at first glance.
This has to be the lowest high points I've ever seen. Really said "Played 2 cup finals" knowing very well that he lost both.
 

redshaw

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I don't believe the 2 cup finals one is accurate, we were i the EL final in 2021 what else?
It isn't.

We had 3 semi finals (FA/EFL/Europa) in 2019/20 which Ole lost famously or so I thought, was a meme at the time then in 20/21 another semi final in EFL and at last a final which he lost to Villarreal. His half season taking after Mourinho ended with a QF loss to Barca limp 4-0 on agg, a QF loss to Wolves (Herrera had a shocking comeback game I think).
 

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Aye, sometimes you get lucky, sometimes teams underperform and a team can post the lowest 2nd place points tally since that Leicester season, the lowest along with that Leicester season by some distance in the last decade and pretend it’s some great achievement.
But if that’s all you’ve got after 2.5 years, it’s gonna be crystal clear you’re going fecking nowhere and it’d be a terrible start for ETH.

Mourinho got second with over 80 points and wasn’t lauded by fans, in fans, a huge portion still thought he was shite.
What will convince fans it’s the performances on the pitch and if it appears like we’re building towards something and improving in our play. Not a finishing position.
We were in the top 3 for two years. We didn’t get lucky. We were better than the vast majority of teams in the PL, for a long period, while all the while being told that the teams that were behind us were better than us.

Mourinho wasn’t given any respect because football is a stupid WWE game and Mourinho has been cast as a ‘baddie’. His season was obviously also a good season.